CDZ Why I support Universal healthcare, and why I don't.

[alang1216]

The various scandals I have witnessed at the government run VA is enough for me to oppose UHC.

No where to run and no one to run to for help when health care screws you over,...…………………... not if, WHEN!

Surveys of Vets have shown that they think as highly of their VA care as people who use private insurance. You may think it is good to have a large, for-profit corporation making your health care decisions for you, essentially death, panels based, at least in part, on their bottom line but I'm not real comfortable with it.

 

[alang1216]

My wife and I spend about 5-6% of our income on health care. That is not much of a burden.

The reason why health care is so expensive for a lot of people is because of all the government regulations and control and the refusal of the filthy government to allow free market competetion plus sapping money out of it for welfare.

A few years ago my wife had a fracture in her arm and we took her to the emergency room. She spent a couple of hours waiting to be seen and she was given aspirin, a sling and told to go see an orthopedic specialist. Our insurance company was billed over $6,000.

We were way over charged for the services rendered because we were paying for the filthy ass welfare queens and illegals that didn't pay.

Our insurance premiums reflect that welfare component and it is despicable.

How about I pay my health care bills and you pay yours and the goddamn government stay out of trying to control our lives?

"we were paying for the filthy ass welfare queens and illegals that didn't pay."

Okay Trumpy. Prove that.

You are really that stupid, aren't you? Typical uneducated Moon Bat.

Hospital emergency rooms are prevented by law from refusing to treat anyone because of the inability to pay. That is why the goddamn Illegals and other worthless shitheads use is as their primary care and the paying customers foot the bill. Despicable, isn't it?

$5,000 for a sling, aspirin and referral to a specialist. Even a low IQ idiot like you should know that is way overboard.

We were paying for the filthy ass welfare queens that didn't pay that day.

We're also paying for that middle-class, college kid who bought a motorcycle with the money he saved by not buying health insurance before he got hit by a bus.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

BTW - what I just described is not an American problem. It is actually worse in many countries.
The old adage, you can judge a society on how they treat the very young and the very old.
We fail the test every single day. As does virtually the entire world.

Do you think that has changed much since the dawn of humanity? Consider: in the past couple of hundred years, we have considerably increased lifespans and decreased considerably the mortality rate for the young, true? Medical care has advanced one hell of a lot, and it has done so primarily in the United States in terms of innovation. Look how fast we have developed vaccines for the Coronavirus; amazing stuff.

The problem is that now we want it all. Free, quality health care for all whether you have bothered to take precautions to preserve your own health or not. No responsibility, let the gov't take care of me even if I do harmful drugs, drink like a fish, smoke like a chimney, eat what I want and as much as I want, and sit on my ass and do nothing. No worries, somebody else can pay for it, even if it is our children and those who follow us. Quite a legacy to leave them, no?

Eh?
My father drank beer a little when he was in the Army, stopped when he met my mother in 1957. Never drank again.
I remember him smoking a pipe way back when I was little, not sure why he stopped... guessing it was around 1972ish.
I would say they ate pretty healthy actually. Back then fast food was not popular. They had a large garden every year till they became too old to do it anymore.
Myself, I took over my older brothers paper route when I was 12. Had that till I was 15. At the same time, I also mowed 3 yards and shoveled snow.
At 15 I started working after school for a guy who owned rental properties and had a body shop. Looong story short, I am 55 years old. The longest I was unemployed was for 3 weeks in 1984.
Sooo..... try again

 

[Erinwltr]

My wife and I spend about 5-6% of our income on health care. That is not much of a burden.

The reason why health care is so expensive for a lot of people is because of all the government regulations and control and the refusal of the filthy government to allow free market competetion plus sapping money out of it for welfare.

A few years ago my wife had a fracture in her arm and we took her to the emergency room. She spent a couple of hours waiting to be seen and she was given aspirin, a sling and told to go see an orthopedic specialist. Our insurance company was billed over $6,000.

We were way over charged for the services rendered because we were paying for the filthy ass welfare queens and illegals that didn't pay.

Our insurance premiums reflect that welfare component and it is despicable.

How about I pay my health care bills and you pay yours and the goddamn government stay out of trying to control our lives?

"we were paying for the filthy ass welfare queens and illegals that didn't pay."

Okay Trumpy. Prove that.

You are really that stupid, aren't you? Typical uneducated Moon Bat.

Hospital emergency rooms are prevented by law from refusing to treat anyone because of the inability to pay. That is why the goddamn Illegals and other worthless shitheads use is as their primary care and the paying customers foot the bill. Despicable, isn't it?

$5,000 for a sling, aspirin and referral to a specialist. Even a low IQ idiot like you should know that is way overboard.

We were paying for the filthy ass welfare queens that didn't pay that day.

We're also paying for that middle-class, college kid who bought a motorcycle with the money he saved by not buying health insurance before he got hit by a bus.

Dude, I work in a hospital and this is BS.

"$5,000 for a sling, aspirin and referral to a specialist. "

 

[Flash]

The various scandals I have witnessed at the government run VA is enough for me to oppose UHC.

No where to run and no one to run to for help when health care screws you over,...…………………... not if, WHEN!

Surveys of Vets have shown that they think as highly of their VA care as people who use private insurance. You may think it is good to have a large, for-profit corporation making your health care decisions for you, essentially death, panels based, at least in part, on their bottom line but I'm not real comfortable with it.

I am not comfortable having some low IQ non caring career bureaucrat, whose boss is a corrupt politician elected by special interest groups, making decisions for me as important as health care.

I get quality products at a reasonable price created by corporations looking to make a profit all the time. In fact that is what makes our economy run. Health care is no different.

This bit about wanting the filthy government to take over health has nothing to do with cost or quality. It is greedy welfare queens wanting to get somebody else to be responsible for paying their bills.

It doesn't stop with health care. The Moon Bats want everything to be paid for by other people. Hell, now the greedy bastards are demanding that somebody else pick up the bill for their worthless degree college debt. They think they are somehow entitled to it although it didn't provide them with the skills necessary to pay back the debt. China Joe and the Ho ran on a platform to do just that.

Socialism is a serious mental illness and when a good portion of a country's population gets it then the country is usually destroyed.

 

[Erinwltr]

We already have UHC, and we've had it for decades.

That's not to say that if you're homeless and crawl into a hospital with stage 4 pancreatic cancer that they're going to even try and keep you alive, but if you go into an ER in any major city on any given night you will be amazed at how many homeless people are laid up on gurneys in the hallways sleeping off over doses. You will see illegal aliens' with the sniffles, wounds from gang violence, and miscarriages. No one in this country is denied HC.

Period.

Now that's not to say that if you're broke, you're going to have the top of the line treatment regardless of your affliction. Show me ONE..

JUST ******* ONE shit hole euroweenie commie country that cures terminal illness for all of it's proles. For ****'s sake you can't even get simple operations in these shit holes unless you're rich and well connected. Sometimes you're lucky if you can get a cast on a broken bone in a reasonable amount of time. UHC is a fool's errand. There will NEVER BE a system where everyone gets equal access to the state of the art top tier treatment, and if you turn the industry over to government, you can forget about innovation and upgrades to the system.


.

You're still the hateful piece of shit you've always been.

Mitch McConnel was right. Medicaid would have covered all that and then some. And then be done with it.

 

[2aguy]

I run a small company with 8 employees. I make enough money to support Bonzi and I comfortably. I haven't worried about paying bills for decades. If I/we want something enough, we buy it. Our retirement is secure because I made it that way. Bonzi doesn't need to work for financial reasons... she only needs to work so we have healthcare insurance. For 2 people in their 50s... decent healthcare insurance is astronomical. Thank you Obamacare for raising insurance costs to the moon for those needing ACTUAL insurance and not just a plastic card that pretends to be insurance so you can donate money to the government.

ACTUAL health insurance that doesn't have ENORMOUS out-of-pocket costs, so high in fact... it is highly unlikely you will ever get a single penny of benefits.
REAL insurance with REAL coverage would cost us about $1600 a month. (I define REAL as one with less than $2000 deductible, otherwise you have something pretending to be healthcare coverage, when in reality it is catastrophic care only - another gift from Obamacare)
Through Bonzi's job it costs us a little over $500/mo. for the premium care that has a deductible of $2500.

So for those reasons I wish we had Universal Care... so we could have coverage without having to have a full time job to get it. Especially when we get to age 60 or so... at that point we have enough liquid assets to quit full time jobs and work when we want. But cannot do so, because health insurance is prohibitively expensive.


Why I DON'T SUPPORT UHC.... because it is the federal government.
And the American federal government is wholly corrupt, inept, wasteful and the needs of the population are a very-very distant 2nd to special interest, globalism and corporatism. As we saw with Obamacare... the government, even when liberals are the ones that did it, gave more thought to protecting Pharma, insurance conglomerates and the $40 Billion medical device industry so so so much more than what people needed.
I simply do not believe the American corrupt system can do the job without ******* us over and over while gifting corporations and special interest.

Sometimes I really do think about becoming an ex-Pat.

Agreed..........obamacare is not care. It is fake insurance...meant to destroy the private healthcare industry to enable democrats to control American Healthcare....

 

[2aguy]

We already have UHC, and we've had it for decades.

That's not to say that if you're homeless and crawl into a hospital with stage 4 pancreatic cancer that they're going to even try and keep you alive, but if you go into an ER in any major city on any given night you will be amazed at how many homeless people are laid up on gurneys in the hallways sleeping off over doses. You will see illegal aliens' with the sniffles, wounds from gang violence, and miscarriages. No one in this country is denied HC.

Period.

Now that's not to say that if you're broke, you're going to have the top of the line treatment regardless of your affliction. Show me ONE..

JUST ******* ONE shit hole euroweenie commie country that cures terminal illness for all of it's proles. For ****'s sake you can't even get simple operations in these shit holes unless you're rich and well connected. Sometimes you're lucky if you can get a cast on a broken bone in a reasonable amount of time. UHC is a fool's errand. There will NEVER BE a system where everyone gets equal access to the state of the art top tier treatment, and if you turn the industry over to government, you can forget about innovation and upgrades to the system.


.

You're still the hateful piece of shit you've always been.

Mitch McConnel was right. Medicaid would have covered all that and then some. And then be done with it.

This is the CDZ....act like it.

 

[Erinwltr]

We already have UHC, and we've had it for decades.

That's not to say that if you're homeless and crawl into a hospital with stage 4 pancreatic cancer that they're going to even try and keep you alive, but if you go into an ER in any major city on any given night you will be amazed at how many homeless people are laid up on gurneys in the hallways sleeping off over doses. You will see illegal aliens' with the sniffles, wounds from gang violence, and miscarriages. No one in this country is denied HC.

Period.

Now that's not to say that if you're broke, you're going to have the top of the line treatment regardless of your affliction. Show me ONE..

JUST ******* ONE shit hole euroweenie commie country that cures terminal illness for all of it's proles. For ****'s sake you can't even get simple operations in these shit holes unless you're rich and well connected. Sometimes you're lucky if you can get a cast on a broken bone in a reasonable amount of time. UHC is a fool's errand. There will NEVER BE a system where everyone gets equal access to the state of the art top tier treatment, and if you turn the industry over to government, you can forget about innovation and upgrades to the system.


.

You're still the hateful piece of shit you've always been.

Mitch McConnel was right. Medicaid would have covered all that and then some. And then be done with it.

This is the CDZ....act like it.

M'kay.

 

[2aguy]

What about the humongous cost to UHC? Look at the taxes you gotta pay in those countries that have it, and it ain't just the rich and well-off that pay higher taxes. EVERYBODY pays A LOT if they have an income, and I believe in most of those places they have a consumption tax on top of a heavy tax burden. And it ain't free either, you have co-pays for a lot of the medical services you use.

Then there's an access problem, with as many people as we have relative to the the number of providers and facilities, people are gonna have to wait for quite awhile sometimes for care. And when you put in price controls you reduce the compensation to providers, thereby making those fields of endeavor less attractive. IOW, fewer doctors and nurses down the road. How many rural clinics and hospital would have to close?

Then there's the question of innovation for drugs and treatments. What happens when you try to reduce the costs? You end up with less money going into R&D, it's costs money to develop and test new drugs and treatments; if it isn't deemed cost effective then we won't get nearly as many medical advances. You think the ret of the world will pic up the slack? Dream on.

I can see huge problems with fraud, waste, and abuse. Big money attracts big crooks in large numbers. The truth is that the gov't sucks at everything it tries to do, even if well intentioned. There are reasons why the VA system sucks, and UHC failed in Vermont, and other states like Colorado and California looked at it and decided not to try it.

And for all the high taxes, he quality of care is bad and getting worse.......look at actual articles on the collapse of these healthcare systems......they don't have enough doctors and nurses, they continually reduce the amount of care you get, especially when you age.............

 

[2aguy]

Universal coverage can also include public/private partnerships, such as our current Medicare / Medicare Supplement / Medicare Advantage program, which could be tweaked to work for all Americans. It would also be individual and portable, include dynamic choice, free market competition and innovation, and take a massive cost monkey off the backs of American employers.

Right now, we have SIX (6) different healthcare delivery/payment systems, none of which communicates directly with the others:

1. Medicare
2. Medicaid
3. VA
4. Group
5. Individual
6. Indigent

I wonder how many people really think that's a smart "system".

And yet you guys think that the geniuses who came up with the systems you are complaining about are intelligent enough to make a beter system? Those are the systems those smart people came up with........which you are complaining about.

Why is it you guys always complain about these systems, then want the same people who created those systems to have more power and more control over even biggers systems?

 

[2aguy]

catastrophic care only

Whats wrong with that?

you pay for the little stuff while insurance protects you from losing all you assets from a serious illness

7,000 dollars a family member is a lot of "little stuff." You literally have to have a catastrophic injury or illness and you still get crushed by obamacare...

 

[2aguy]

catastrophic care only

Whats wrong with that?

you pay for the little stuff while insurance protects you from losing all you assets from a serious illness

Great if you have no health conditions. But what if you do? ..... sucks to be you.
I have two conditions that require approx. $15,000/yr in costs. I do NOT want to have to pay $7500 a year or more, and shouldn't have to.
Our nation has the wealth to prevent people from having to do that.

This is what insurance is for. We all pay a little and when something bad happens to one of us, they are covered.

Insuance companies give bigger companies better rates because they have bigger risk pools, right? Well let’s just put all Americans into one pool and spread the risk out among all of us.

The people who are healthy and don’t use it can’t complain. That’s just selfish and ignorant.

Doesn't work that way with the government....they have no incentive to innovate or stream line things......the nameless bureaucrat who makes the decision is not at risk if they screw up or make a bad decision......that is the difference.

What they end up doing, in all of these other countries, is cut care, especially for the elderly........you don't need it when you are young, you pay taxes through the nose for it regardless, then when you really need it, they say you are too old and don't qualify for the treatment you need.

 

[2aguy]

Universal coverage can also include public/private partnerships, such as our current Medicare / Medicare Supplement / Medicare Advantage program, which could be tweaked to work for all Americans. It would also be individual and portable, include dynamic choice, free market competition and innovation, and take a massive cost monkey off the backs of American employers.

Right now, we have SIX (6) different healthcare delivery/payment systems, none of which communicates directly with the others:

1. Medicare
2. Medicaid
3. VA
4. Group
5. Individual
6. Indigent

I wonder how many people really think that's a smart "system".

Medicare is God awful.
When my father passed away with brain cancer 3 years ago this month.... I truly got a glimpse at just how bad medicare is.
At one point, and more than once... he was lying in the emergency room in extreme pain but not getting medication because of Medicare's archaic and unmerciful policies between Medicare and Hospice care. It is a *******, vile evil set up.
I hope you and yours do not have to experience it.
And then after my father passed away, it left his wife... my mother... buried in red tape that you need a lawyer to figure out.
It is impersonal, uncaring and without care about what people are going through.
It shouldn't be called Medicare... it should be called Medifuckyou if you get terminally ill

If you ran a business and had to pay $100,000 Give or take $20,000, youd look for ways to save money.

Hospice used to not be so cheap with the morphine. I agree this needs to change.

It is not Hospice care that is the problem, when you are under Home hospice care,,, they are actually extremely helpful, caring and also extremely responsive and bring you what you need right away.... like now. And it is all paid for. Everything.
The problem is you cannot be under Hospice care and receive any other care if that care is defined as life sustaining. But the problem is, as you are dying many times in order to get relief from a symptom you need to get a treatment that happens to also be a life sustaining treatment.
For instance, my father loss the ability to swallow properly, it was difficult for him to drink proper amounts of liquid. So he would get dehydrated. Which brings upon a series of problems when you are seriously ill. Hospice will not cover going into the hospital. Only a nursing home. But he didn't need to go to a nursing home, what he needed was to to a hospital and get IV's and electrolytes/intravenous vitamins to get back to being able to be comfortable. Hospice will not pay for that, and neither will medicare if you are under hospice. So you end up constantly signing on and off, on and off of hospice. Which is a bureaucratic nightmare... back and forth...back and forth. My mother would sit there and cry, seeing her husband suffer while it would take hours to get through the paperwork and people necessary to sign off.
And the ONLY reason it is this way is to save money. And our government designed it that way.

Yep....it amazes me when intelligent people tell us how bad the system is, then want to give more power and control to the very people who created the system the intelligent people are complaining about.....as if the people who screwed it up can make it better by giving them more control and power.....

 

[progressive hunter]

I run a small company with 8 employees. I make enough money to support Bonzi and I comfortably. I haven't worried about paying bills for decades. If I/we want something enough, we buy it. Our retirement is secure because I made it that way. Bonzi doesn't need to work for financial reasons... she only needs to work so we have healthcare insurance. For 2 people in their 50s... decent healthcare insurance is astronomical. Thank you Obamacare for raising insurance costs to the moon for those needing ACTUAL insurance and not just a plastic card that pretends to be insurance so you can donate money to the government.

ACTUAL health insurance that doesn't have ENORMOUS out-of-pocket costs, so high in fact... it is highly unlikely you will ever get a single penny of benefits.
REAL insurance with REAL coverage would cost us about $1600 a month. (I define REAL as one with less than $2000 deductible, otherwise you have something pretending to be healthcare coverage, when in reality it is catastrophic care only - another gift from Obamacare)
Through Bonzi's job it costs us a little over $500/mo. for the premium care that has a deductible of $2500.

So for those reasons I wish we had Universal Care... so we could have coverage without having to have a full time job to get it. Especially when we get to age 60 or so... at that point we have enough liquid assets to quit full time jobs and work when we want. But cannot do so, because health insurance is prohibitively expensive.


Why I DON'T SUPPORT UHC.... because it is the federal government.
And the American federal government is wholly corrupt, inept, wasteful and the needs of the population are a very-very distant 2nd to special interest, globalism and corporatism. As we saw with Obamacare... the government, even when liberals are the ones that did it, gave more thought to protecting Pharma, insurance conglomerates and the $40 Billion medical device industry so so so much more than what people needed.
I simply do not believe the American corrupt system can do the job without ******* us over and over while gifting corporations and special interest.

Sometimes I really do think about becoming an ex-Pat.

the #1 reason against it is it puts a far away government in charge of your healthcare with no chance to ever confront them when they decide its time for you to die,,

 

[2aguy]

I run a small company with 8 employees. I make enough money to support Bonzi and I comfortably. I haven't worried about paying bills for decades. If I/we want something enough, we buy it. Our retirement is secure because I made it that way. Bonzi doesn't need to work for financial reasons... she only needs to work so we have healthcare insurance. For 2 people in their 50s... decent healthcare insurance is astronomical. Thank you Obamacare for raising insurance costs to the moon for those needing ACTUAL insurance and not just a plastic card that pretends to be insurance so you can donate money to the government.

ACTUAL health insurance that doesn't have ENORMOUS out-of-pocket costs, so high in fact... it is highly unlikely you will ever get a single penny of benefits.
REAL insurance with REAL coverage would cost us about $1600 a month. (I define REAL as one with less than $2000 deductible, otherwise you have something pretending to be healthcare coverage, when in reality it is catastrophic care only - another gift from Obamacare)
Through Bonzi's job it costs us a little over $500/mo. for the premium care that has a deductible of $2500.

So for those reasons I wish we had Universal Care... so we could have coverage without having to have a full time job to get it. Especially when we get to age 60 or so... at that point we have enough liquid assets to quit full time jobs and work when we want. But cannot do so, because health insurance is prohibitively expensive.


Why I DON'T SUPPORT UHC.... because it is the federal government.
And the American federal government is wholly corrupt, inept, wasteful and the needs of the population are a very-very distant 2nd to special interest, globalism and corporatism. As we saw with Obamacare... the government, even when liberals are the ones that did it, gave more thought to protecting Pharma, insurance conglomerates and the $40 Billion medical device industry so so so much more than what people needed.
I simply do not believe the American corrupt system can do the job without ******* us over and over while gifting corporations and special interest.

Sometimes I really do think about becoming an ex-Pat.

And we all collectively are paying way more than we should. We pay out of our paycheck, our employer pays and then we have deductables and copays.

We could pay less and cover everyone but that wouldn’t maximize profits for the insurance and big pharma companies.

So they’ll start the fear campaign. Will you be able to keep your doctor? Who cares?

You will have to wait to get your procedure done. We wait now.

Ideally.
But again... we are talking about it being written/designed by wholly corrupt, inept truly vile people. So your point is taken, but unfortunately unrealistic due to corruption

I just saw a post on instagram

Number of people who lost health coverage since Covid

USA 15 million
Canada 0
Australia zero
Belgium 0
German 0
etc.

And when their healthcare systems collapse, all of them will be out of healthcare.....

The only reason their systems haven't collapsed already is the U.S. pays for their national defense, their technological and medical innovation and just about everything else......so they then get to spend their money on their failing healthcare systems.....

 

[2aguy]

I run a small company with 8 employees. I make enough money to support Bonzi and I comfortably. I haven't worried about paying bills for decades. If I/we want something enough, we buy it. Our retirement is secure because I made it that way. Bonzi doesn't need to work for financial reasons... she only needs to work so we have healthcare insurance. For 2 people in their 50s... decent healthcare insurance is astronomical. Thank you Obamacare for raising insurance costs to the moon for those needing ACTUAL insurance and not just a plastic card that pretends to be insurance so you can donate money to the government.

ACTUAL health insurance that doesn't have ENORMOUS out-of-pocket costs, so high in fact... it is highly unlikely you will ever get a single penny of benefits.
REAL insurance with REAL coverage would cost us about $1600 a month. (I define REAL as one with less than $2000 deductible, otherwise you have something pretending to be healthcare coverage, when in reality it is catastrophic care only - another gift from Obamacare)
Through Bonzi's job it costs us a little over $500/mo. for the premium care that has a deductible of $2500.

So for those reasons I wish we had Universal Care... so we could have coverage without having to have a full time job to get it. Especially when we get to age 60 or so... at that point we have enough liquid assets to quit full time jobs and work when we want. But cannot do so, because health insurance is prohibitively expensive.


Why I DON'T SUPPORT UHC.... because it is the federal government.
And the American federal government is wholly corrupt, inept, wasteful and the needs of the population are a very-very distant 2nd to special interest, globalism and corporatism. As we saw with Obamacare... the government, even when liberals are the ones that did it, gave more thought to protecting Pharma, insurance conglomerates and the $40 Billion medical device industry so so so much more than what people needed.
I simply do not believe the American corrupt system can do the job without ******* us over and over while gifting corporations and special interest.

Sometimes I really do think about becoming an ex-Pat.

And we all collectively are paying way more than we should. We pay out of our paycheck, our employer pays and then we have deductables and copays.

We could pay less and cover everyone but that wouldn’t maximize profits for the insurance and big pharma companies.

So they’ll start the fear campaign. Will you be able to keep your doctor? Who cares?

You will have to wait to get your procedure done. We wait now.

Ideally.
But again... we are talking about it being written/designed by wholly corrupt, inept truly vile people. So your point is taken, but unfortunately unrealistic due to corruption

I just saw a post on instagram

Number of people who lost health coverage since Covid

USA 15 million
Canada 0
Australia zero
Belgium 0
German 0
etc.

Australia...

It fears practices will begin closing down within weeks, something that would have dire consequences for Australia’s broader healthcare system.

“Our problem is that we’ve got a primary healthcare system that relies on these small businesses to deliver it,” Richard Hart, an administrator with the AGPA secretariat, said.

“And the small businesses are marginally viable at the best of times. Right now they are not financially viable. Therefore, your delivery system is about to collapse.”

Australia's small medical practices on brink of collapse amid coronavirus

Concern closure of GP clinics would put more pressure on already overstretched hospital system

www.theguardian.com

Canada.....

According to a Fraser Institute survey, for medically necessary treatment, the median waiting time for patients in Canada from referral by a general practitioner to consultation with a specialist, and then to the date of actual treatment, was 21.2 weeks in 2017.



This year’s [2017] wait time — the longest ever recorded in this survey’s history — is 128% longer than in 1993, when it was just 9.3 weeks.

Research has repeatedly indicated that wait times for medically necessary treatment are not benign inconveniences. Wait times can, and do, have serious consequences such as increased pain, suffering, and mental anguish. In certain instances, they can also result in poorer medical outcomes — transforming potentially reversible illnesses or injuries into chronic, irreversible conditions, or even permanent disabilities.

Universal Health Care in Canada: A Colossal Government Failure | Mises Institute

The median waiting time for patients in Canada from referral by a practitioner, to consultation with a specialist, to date of treatment, was 21.2 weeks in

mises.org

Germany...

Look no further than Germany, the first country in the developed world to implement a national, government-centric medical system. The government mandates, standardizes, and subsidizes care, and yet, struggling citizens still get subpar care. Germany’s experience should be a lesson for all of those calling for Medicare for All.

Germany Shows Universal Healthcare Is No Panacea

The government mandates, standardizes, and subsidizes care, and yet, struggling citizens still get subpar care.

catalyst.independent.org

Failing healthcare systems ....

Europe’s health care systems aren’t feeling very well.

Doctors have been threatening massive strikes in Britain to protest pay and conditions. Italian regions are going bankrupt trying to fund medicines. Drugmakers are pulling diabetes drugs from Germany, blaming government-set prices that don’t let them recoup their investment.

Highly specialized medicines for diseases like cancer are entering the market at sky-high prices, forcing governments to choose between the need to treat their citizens and the need to spend wisely. And in many countries, people head straight to the hospital when they’re feeling sick, which makes treating patients especially expensive.

Europe’s health systems on life support

Paying for ‘results’ and sin taxes are among the measures to curb costs, change behavior.

www.politico.eu

Again, the only reason their healthcare systems are still afloat is the U.S. paying for all of the other things these countries should be paying for on their own..........national defense in particular, and medical and other technological innovation that they can't create on their own because their systems don't incentivize innovation...

 

[Orangecat]

USA 15 million
Canada 0
Australia zero
Belgium 0
German 0
etc.

Has Australia banned numbers?

 

[2aguy]

The various scandals I have witnessed at the government run VA is enough for me to oppose UHC.

No where to run and no one to run to for help when health care screws you over,...…………………... not if, WHEN!

Surveys of Vets have shown that they think as highly of their VA care as people who use private insurance. You may think it is good to have a large, for-profit corporation making your health care decisions for you, essentially death, panels based, at least in part, on their bottom line but I'm not real comfortable with it.

Wrong.....the private healthcare companies have to attract customers, so they have to respond to customer needs, just like the people who make your cellphone and television......the government bureaucrat has no obligation and no risk when they make their decisions.........big difference.

 

[JoeB131]

the #1 reason against it is it puts a far away government in charge of your healthcare with no chance to ever confront them when they decide its time for you to die,,

I'd rather have that fight with a government that I can vote for than an insurance company I can't.