Why I Don’t Trust Trump on Iran

[buttercup]

Personally, because I don't trust anyone in the US gov't. for or about anything, Republican or Democrat.
............

At some point, when we’ve been lied to constantly and consistently for decades about a “threat” that we must “take out” with a military attack, there comes a time where we must assume they are lying until they provide rock solid, irrefutable proof. Thus far they have provided nothing. So I don’t believe them.

Why I Don’t Trust Trump on Iran

A lot of innocent people and American soldiers will die- hope you war mongering freaks will be happy then-

THANK YOU. You (and a small handful of others here) have restored my faith in humanity.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Personally, because I don't trust anyone in the US gov't. for or about anything, Republican or Democrat.
............

At some point, when we’ve been lied to constantly and consistently for decades about a “threat” that we must “take out” with a military attack, there comes a time where we must assume they are lying until they provide rock solid, irrefutable proof. Thus far they have provided nothing. So I don’t believe them.

Why I Don’t Trust Trump on Iran

Trump has proven that he can't be trusted.

Iran has been a threat for decades.
I guess you're missing intelligence.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Personally, because I don't trust anyone in the US gov't. for or about anything, Republican or Democrat.
............

At some point, when we’ve been lied to constantly and consistently for decades about a “threat” that we must “take out” with a military attack, there comes a time where we must assume they are lying until they provide rock solid, irrefutable proof. Thus far they have provided nothing. So I don’t believe them.

Why I Don’t Trust Trump on Iran

Trump has proven that he can't be trusted.

what did he not believe about russia???

Duh, that Russia attacked and influenced the 2016 election to help Trump* win. How dense are you?

Impossible!!!

According to Obama.

 

[SavannahMann]

We're used to this from liberals. You libs have been critical of Afghanistan and Iraq from the very beginning.

Let me begin by giving you some personal history. I was a soldier in the 82nd Airborne who was in Desert Shield/Storm. We lost some friends in Iraq in the Gulf War One. Guys I knew in our sister unit of the 37th Engineers.

I read some history after the war, and found how the Gulf States were formed. I read more and when we invaded Afghanistan I was both disappointed, and satisfied. We were going after the baddies. Ok, good. We were going into Afghanistan, not so good.

Curious note. The original writings for Sherlock Holmes had Doctor Watson home from the war in Afghanistan. Afghanistan was invaded by pretty much everyone through history, and nobody stayed. Not the Persians, the British, the Russians, and now us. Everyone who had read history knew that Afghanistan was the genesis of the old warning. Do not get involved in a land war in Asia. It would swallow your armies whole.

Doom has followed every invasion of Afghanistan. People who listened, noticed something. Something from history. We were winning the battles, but there were always more battles. Like when Iraq was proclaiming victory at various towns, and each town they announced a victory at, was closer to Baghdad than the last victory. Anyone with a map could see that they were lying. We even laughingly called the Public Information guy Baghdad Bob if you remember.

Well the truth is that we are stuck in Afghanistan. The warnings you deride were accurate. And what is worse, the same Government who was telling you and me that we were winning, knew all along it was not going that way.

Washington Post Afghanistan Story: U.S. Government Lies about War, Public Won’t Hold Liars Accountable | National Review

National Review is a Conservative source. So we know that the Bush Admin, Obama Admin, and now the Trump Administration are all recycling the same lies. We’re totally winning. We have been totally winning for a generation now. How much longer can we afford to continue totally winning?

The one Politician who told the truth, was McCain during the 2008 campaign. He said that we would remain in Afghanistan for a hundred years if that is what it took. Everyone derided him as old and foolish. Out of touch. When Obama had a plan to get us out of Afghanistan. The plan never really took shape, and Obama left office with the same old story going on as when he entered office.

So we have covered Afghanistan. I was one of those worried about Iraq. I knew that the Ba’ath Party kept iron control, my studies after the war I mentioned above. I knew that most of the population was the same religious sect as Iran, and Iran would have much greater influence. I also had read history, and knew that the British had broken the region up into smaller countries when they pulled out of the Colonial efforts largely to create regional tensions that would hopefully prevent another Empire from springing up. They had just destroyed the Ottoman Empire, and the region has been home to many empires over the centuries of recorded history.

So I knew that the British Fears of a large regional empire was well founded, and not without historical precedent. Presidents that warn you of such things should not be ignored, and should be considered carefully before taking action.

So the threat of Iran taking over Iraq, or the two joining into one larger and more powerful, and much more dangerous nation is a threat that still faces us. It is half the reason we still have troops there.

That is the true result of the wars to date. We are not fighting to win. There is no way we can. We are fighting not to lose. Defeat is intolerable, and so we pay the price, and apparently will pay any price to avoid that outcome. It is why Obama, who campaigned in 2008 to get out of Iraq and Afghanistan left office eight years later, with troops still maintaining the mission Obama derided. Defeat has the almost certain outcome of being far more expensive than the continuing war. Yes, a Unified Iran/Iraq would be that bad.

So the warnings you deride, were accurate. We know from the news now, that those warnings were known, but the Government had to “do something” and this seemed like the best bet. Imagine that for a moment. Understanding that the wars you are starting could well be consuming the grandchildren of the soldiers you are sending to fight today, long after you are dead and gone. Exit strategy? We didn’t even have a strategy for victory, much less how to get the hell out.

We have a new guy at work. He just got out of the Army. His Father went and fought when the war was just starting, Gulf War II that is. His Grandfather was in my war, Gulf War One. Three generations of people fighting the same areas, and for all intents and purposes the same war.

GHW Bush was at least smart enough to know that removing the Ba’ath party from power, would result in long term regional instability, and they avoided that outcome.

Sadly, nobody has any ideas how to get out short of abject defeat and Iran/Iraq becoming one very dangerous nation. And if that happens, with or without the Bomb in Tehran’s hands, the odds are Nukes fly eventually to smack them back into the 7th Century, and it will be considered a crime against humanity by history before the decade is out.

You shouldn’t deride those who knew history enough to know we were on a dangerous path and warned about it. The sad truth is those warnings were right, and even sadder, nobody had a better idea. We were doomed by our desire for vengeance. I am included in that sad desire at the time.

 

[The piss off patriot]

Personally I don’t trust anyone on either side of the political aisle except for tusli but I honestly have a feeling that psychopaths of the democrats are for the queen of the psychopaths democrats warren and honestly I don’t trust her because she would coward to Iran


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[The piss off patriot]

Personally, because I don't trust anyone in the US gov't. for or about anything, Republican or Democrat.
............

At some point, when we’ve been lied to constantly and consistently for decades about a “threat” that we must “take out” with a military attack, there comes a time where we must assume they are lying until they provide rock solid, irrefutable proof. Thus far they have provided nothing. So I don’t believe them.

Why I Don’t Trust Trump on Iran

Trump has proven that he can't be trusted.

what did he not believe about russia???

Duh, that Russia attacked and influenced the 2016 election to help Trump* win. How dense are you?

So why can’t anyone provide the evidence? Muller had 2 years but he needed 4 four years? Get lost


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[YoursTruly]

Iran has been a threat for decades.
I guess you're missing intelligence.

Says who?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Iran has been a threat for decades.
I guess you're missing intelligence.

Says who?

Reality.

 

[YoursTruly]

Personally I don’t trust anyone on either side of the political aisle except for tusli but I honestly have a feeling that psychopaths of the democrats are for the queen of the psychopaths democrats warren and honestly I don’t trust her because she would coward to Iran


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I can't stand Warren, or any of the democrats. (Tulsi's ok though) But what do you mean by "she would coward to Iran?"

 

[YoursTruly]

Iran has been a threat for decades.
I guess you're missing intelligence.

Says who?

Reality.

LMAO..

Allllllllllllllllllllll righty then. If you say so.

 

[progressive hunter]

Iran has been a threat for decades.
I guess you're missing intelligence.

Says who?

IRAN said so,,,

 

[cnm]

So it's okay for Iran to attack our embassies? Americans were killed you know?

Don't worry, they were terrorists.

Iran labels all US forces in Middle East ‘terrorists’
Iran’s lawmakers on Tuesday overwhelmingly approved a bill labeling U.S. forces in the Middle East as terrorist, a day after the U.S. terrorism designation for Iran’s Revolutionary Guard formally took effect, state TV reported.​

 

[DOTR]

A lot of innocent people and American soldiers will die- hope you war mongering freaks will be happy then-

Who will kill them?

 

[DOTR]

Personally, because I don't trust anyone in the US gov't. for or about anything, Republican or Democrat.
............

At some point, when we’ve been lied to constantly and consistently for decades about a “threat” that we must “take out” with a military attack, there comes a time where we must assume they are lying until they provide rock solid, irrefutable proof. Thus far they have provided nothing. So I don’t believe them.

Why I Don’t Trust Trump on Iran

Ron Paul. He’s a likable fanatic...sometimes right but this time wrong.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Iran has been a threat for decades.
I guess you're missing intelligence.

Says who?

Reality.

LMAO..

Allllllllllllllllllllll righty then. If you say so.

Yeah, poor peaceful Iran.....

 

[Gdjjr]

We're used to this from liberals. You libs have been critical of Afghanistan and Iraq from the very beginning.

Let me begin by giving you some personal history. I was a soldier in the 82nd Airborne who was in Desert Shield/Storm. We lost some friends in Iraq in the Gulf War One. Guys I knew in our sister unit of the 37th Engineers.

I read some history after the war, and found how the Gulf States were formed. I read more and when we invaded Afghanistan I was both disappointed, and satisfied. We were going after the baddies. Ok, good. We were going into Afghanistan, not so good.

Curious note. The original writings for Sherlock Holmes had Doctor Watson home from the war in Afghanistan. Afghanistan was invaded by pretty much everyone through history, and nobody stayed. Not the Persians, the British, the Russians, and now us. Everyone who had read history knew that Afghanistan was the genesis of the old warning. Do not get involved in a land war in Asia. It would swallow your armies whole.

Doom has followed every invasion of Afghanistan. People who listened, noticed something. Something from history. We were winning the battles, but there were always more battles. Like when Iraq was proclaiming victory at various towns, and each town they announced a victory at, was closer to Baghdad than the last victory. Anyone with a map could see that they were lying. We even laughingly called the Public Information guy Baghdad Bob if you remember.

Well the truth is that we are stuck in Afghanistan. The warnings you deride were accurate. And what is worse, the same Government who was telling you and me that we were winning, knew all along it was not going that way.

Washington Post Afghanistan Story: U.S. Government Lies about War, Public Won’t Hold Liars Accountable | National Review

National Review is a Conservative source. So we know that the Bush Admin, Obama Admin, and now the Trump Administration are all recycling the same lies. We’re totally winning. We have been totally winning for a generation now. How much longer can we afford to continue totally winning?

The one Politician who told the truth, was McCain during the 2008 campaign. He said that we would remain in Afghanistan for a hundred years if that is what it took. Everyone derided him as old and foolish. Out of touch. When Obama had a plan to get us out of Afghanistan. The plan never really took shape, and Obama left office with the same old story going on as when he entered office.

So we have covered Afghanistan. I was one of those worried about Iraq. I knew that the Ba’ath Party kept iron control, my studies after the war I mentioned above. I knew that most of the population was the same religious sect as Iran, and Iran would have much greater influence. I also had read history, and knew that the British had broken the region up into smaller countries when they pulled out of the Colonial efforts largely to create regional tensions that would hopefully prevent another Empire from springing up. They had just destroyed the Ottoman Empire, and the region has been home to many empires over the centuries of recorded history.

So I knew that the British Fears of a large regional empire was well founded, and not without historical precedent. Presidents that warn you of such things should not be ignored, and should be considered carefully before taking action.

So the threat of Iran taking over Iraq, or the two joining into one larger and more powerful, and much more dangerous nation is a threat that still faces us. It is half the reason we still have troops there.

That is the true result of the wars to date. We are not fighting to win. There is no way we can. We are fighting not to lose. Defeat is intolerable, and so we pay the price, and apparently will pay any price to avoid that outcome. It is why Obama, who campaigned in 2008 to get out of Iraq and Afghanistan left office eight years later, with troops still maintaining the mission Obama derided. Defeat has the almost certain outcome of being far more expensive than the continuing war. Yes, a Unified Iran/Iraq would be that bad.

So the warnings you deride, were accurate. We know from the news now, that those warnings were known, but the Government had to “do something” and this seemed like the best bet. Imagine that for a moment. Understanding that the wars you are starting could well be consuming the grandchildren of the soldiers you are sending to fight today, long after you are dead and gone. Exit strategy? We didn’t even have a strategy for victory, much less how to get the hell out.

We have a new guy at work. He just got out of the Army. His Father went and fought when the war was just starting, Gulf War II that is. His Grandfather was in my war, Gulf War One. Three generations of people fighting the same areas, and for all intents and purposes the same war.

GHW Bush was at least smart enough to know that removing the Ba’ath party from power, would result in long term regional instability, and they avoided that outcome.

Sadly, nobody has any ideas how to get out short of abject defeat and Iran/Iraq becoming one very dangerous nation. And if that happens, with or without the Bomb in Tehran’s hands, the odds are Nukes fly eventually to smack them back into the 7th Century, and it will be considered a crime against humanity by history before the decade is out.

You shouldn’t deride those who knew history enough to know we were on a dangerous path and warned about it. The sad truth is those warnings were right, and even sadder, nobody had a better idea. We were doomed by our desire for vengeance. I am included in that sad desire at the time.

I appreciate your forthright effort in this thread.
Let's add a bit to the situation to the entire Middle East fiasco. First I'd like to ask you if in your studies you included the agreement Nixon made with Saudi Arabia? Secondly I'd like to ask if your studies included the Israeli influence in the Middle East? Thirdly did your studies include how serious Iranian leaders are about their religion? Did you include religious History in your studies?

I started a thread about Confusion using the pledge of allegiance as the first topic. It's in the Clean Debate Zone so there are very few participants but some of the commentary validates the Confusion runs rampant. The point I'm making here is there is very little confusion in the leaders in the Middle East. Their religion tops the list and everything else follows. Religion is and has been their guiding principle since it was invented. Islam is it. Like any religious belief there are sects who have different views. I don't know who is what so I'll pass on commenting on who's right or wrong, but, the point is, in either sect confusion doesn't exist. There are prescribed beliefs which have been ingrained since they had language. No confusion. They take the beliefs seriously and are willing to do whatever it takes to insure they aren't stopped, or changed, by non believers.
Saudi Arabia is a fly in the ointment so to speak. They gave in to the devil, in the devout Islamist eye. The devil of course being the US because we are a threat to their way of life and siding with us makes whoever did an associate of the devil. Take into account that Israel (Jews) have been their religious enemy forever and we side with the Jews. Not only that, people of Jewish heritage are very prominent in our political and hegemony theatrics- look at who is at the top of the Neocon hierarchy for evidence. No, this is not Jew bashing. It's presenting evidence for consideration to help connect dots.

I'll admit this is a simplistic view but to go into detail would be essay, if not book length, and would be a complete waste of
time because not only do we wallow in confusion we have the attention span the size of a gnat. Don't think for even a second the empty suits in DC don't realize and use that to their advantage.
This Middle East fiasco is just one, in a long list, of displays of arrogance by fear mongers who have permeated and infected the minds of everyone who comes to DC and has been for generations. It is pure unadulterated arrogance of so called educated people who have sent the US down a rabbit hole that no war can win.
The sad part are the willfully blind who cheer on the arrogance and death of so many.

 

[berg80]

Personally, because I don't trust anyone in the US gov't. for or about anything, Republican or Democrat.
............

At some point, when we’ve been lied to constantly and consistently for decades about a “threat” that we must “take out” with a military attack, there comes a time where we must assume they are lying until they provide rock solid, irrefutable proof. Thus far they have provided nothing. So I don’t believe them.

Why I Don’t Trust Trump on Iran

Plus.........you know.........Trump lies all the time, about everything, all the time. So there's that.

 

[Olde Europe]

Personally, because I don't trust anyone in the US gov't. for or about anything, Republican or Democrat.
............

At some point, when we’ve been lied to constantly and consistently for decades about a “threat” that we must “take out” with a military attack, there comes a time where we must assume they are lying until they provide rock solid, irrefutable proof. Thus far they have provided nothing. So I don’t believe them.

Why I Don’t Trust Trump on Iran

Ron Paul, on the most venerable unz.com, eh?

The article is, with all due respect, demented. The choice is not between "the U.S. running the world" and Paul's equally extreme isolationism. That's a classic case of "the missing middle", made into a silly grand strategy. The real choice is one of a world governed cooperatively, based on a negotiated set of rules, and a world of the jungle in which might makes right. The U.S. is too important and too powerful, with too many links to, and interests in, all corners of the world, to sit on the sidelines.

That doesn't mean to "trust" anyone with power - that would be a childish view of government and statecraft. It means insisting, domestically, on a government under the law, with checks and balances, and one in which representatives debate, openly, about the course to chart in the nation's and its citizens' interests, and be taken to account when they get it wrong.

Paul is an idiot. He doesn't even have a hint of a solution to anything, but he sure tries to befuddle some weak-minded nitwits, parting them from their money in pursuit of attacks on windmills, and taking advantage of folks aghast at Trump's recklessness and incompetence.

 

[YoursTruly]

Personally, because I don't trust anyone in the US gov't. for or about anything, Republican or Democrat.
............

At some point, when we’ve been lied to constantly and consistently for decades about a “threat” that we must “take out” with a military attack, there comes a time where we must assume they are lying until they provide rock solid, irrefutable proof. Thus far they have provided nothing. So I don’t believe them.

Why I Don’t Trust Trump on Iran

Ron Paul, on the most venerable unz.com, eh?

The article is, with all due respect, demented. The choice is not between "the U.S. running the world" and Paul's equally extreme isolationism. That's a classic case of "the missing middle", made into a silly grand strategy. The real choice is one of a world governed cooperatively, based on a negotiated set of rules, and a world of the jungle in which might makes right. The U.S. is too important and too powerful, with too many links to, and interests in, all corners of the world, to sit on the sidelines.

That doesn't mean to "trust" anyone with power - that would be a childish view of government and statecraft. It means insisting, domestically, on a government under the law, with checks and balances, and one in which representatives debate, openly, about the course to chart in the nation's and its citizens' interests, and be taken to account when they get it wrong.

Paul is an idiot. He doesn't even have a hint of a solution to anything, but he sure tries to befuddle some weak-minded nitwits, parting them from their money in pursuit of attacks on windmills, and taking advantage of folks aghast at Trump's recklessness and incompetence.

Ron Paul's foreign policy. (for those who believe the BS propaganda that his opposers spew)

Trade and be friends with all willing nations. Do not get involved in the internal workings of their government or their other friends and trading partners.
If we're face with a credible threat (not the BS WMD in Iraq crap), then the congress declares war, and the president executes the war. Afterwards, we come home. Not remain in that country, rebuilding what we just blew up. We just marched in. We can just march out.
That's not anything near "isolationist." Not even close.
We don't protect Vietnam. We trade with them. We don't protect Canada, we trade with them. In fact we trade with a LOT of countries. So being trading partners with them makes us just the opposite of isolationist.
We had trade agreements with Iran. And the agreement was creating American jobs and goods to export to Iran. THAT was not isolationist. Trump destroyed the agreement and put more sanctions on Iran. THAT makes him an isolationist.

Do you understand that? Or should I type it slower?

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Personally, because I don't trust anyone in the US gov't. for or about anything, Republican or Democrat.
............

At some point, when we’ve been lied to constantly and consistently for decades about a “threat” that we must “take out” with a military attack, there comes a time where we must assume they are lying until they provide rock solid, irrefutable proof. Thus far they have provided nothing. So I don’t believe them.

Why I Don’t Trust Trump on Iran

Trump has proven that he can't be trusted.

what did he not believe about russia???

Duh, that Russia attacked and influenced the 2016 election to help Trump* win. How dense are you?

Those russians made you vote for orange man. Lol. I knew it.