Why I Am Not A Christian

[THE LIGHT]

The Light, having a sense of right and wrong does not make a person perfect. It just makes them normal.

So you are saying there is no one perfect (i.e. imperfect = normal), yet you said that anyone could fulfill the law and do good if they wanted to. These two don't add up.

 

[THE LIGHT]

For all the ranting and raving in this thread, no one has yet caused me to consider invalid my initial response to the crucifix that I got at my first encounter with one as a child. It still represents an instrument of torture to me and the worship of it repulses me. I am not a squeamish person but the glorification of suffering and torture and people kissing icons of an instrument or torture disgusts me, despite all the claims by various persons in this thread that that is not what it represents. The only person in opposition to me who said something worthwhile was Intense who expanded on why Protestants have rejected crucifixes as idol worship and only use the cross as a Christian symbol. It seems the Protestants might understand to some point, why people like me, who were not indoctrinated with Christianity at an early age, might have a different reaction to that symbol than those who were.

So, you don't believe in the divinity of Jesus then? How do you then interpret all of his comments about the only way to God being through Him?

Jesus was as divine about as much as a human can be but by his own words we know he was not omniscient and he never ever said to accept him as our Saviour. If you compare John to the synoptics you can see huge leaps of theological claims easily taken out of context. Jn 14:6 is saying we have to follow Jesus' example. How do you literally "accept" Jesus? He's not a product to be accepted like a free sample cookie. The phrase "accept Jesus" is a euphemism for "accept personal responsibility." Do you see how that falls right in line with the Lord's Prayer in Jesus teaching that we pray our sins are forgiven as we forgive those who sin against us?

His often overlooked victory on the cross is he stood by his own teachings. His followers were extremely devoted and many lusted after a military revolt to restore the house of israel against the roman empire and its client kings that oppressed jews. Jesus could have given the word and avoided the torture but unlike us, he was not a hypocrite.

I'm not sure whether you believe Jesus to be the son of God then? Sent by God?

So, what about John 3:16

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

And for reference John 14:6

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.


So, you interpret that as just following his example then, not neccessarily believing that he was the son of God sent to save those who believed in Him? Say a person doesn't believe that he was the son of God, or doesn't even necessarily believe in God, but follows Jesus' example (and not because they even know of Jesus), do you believe they will be saved then?

No, because when push comes to shove it is Jesus in us that enables us to walk his path. And not only that, but we must be redeemed by his blood. As you stated in one of your later posts, Jesus is the only way. Why? because we must be reborn into a clean bloodline; one free from the sin nature inherited through the first Adam. This can only be done through Jesus. There is no other way to salvation.

For the life of the flesh is in the blood... Leviticus 17:11

 

[Argene]

No, because when push comes to shove it is Jesus in us that enables us to walk his path. And not only that, but we must be redeemed by his blood. As you stated in one of your later posts, Jesus is the only way. Why? because we must be reborn into a clean bloodline; one free from the sin nature inherited through the first Adam. This can only be done through Jesus. There is no other way to salvation.

For the life of the flesh is in the blood... Leviticus 17:11

"Christians and your bloody religion!" I have heard that a hundred times. So that is the verse that it applies to????

 

[Argene]

You're so damn dishonest I don't give a **** what you think. You're the kind of sick **** that would say rape is a compliment because the rapist was so attracted to his victim he risked his freedom for sex. You know you are being dishonest you just don't care so long as you can whine.

Exactly who here is being dishonest?

You ******* trolling *****. What the hell was so ambiguous when I said I don't give a **** what you think? I wasn't joking.

My goodness! So much wrath and animus. Usually that happens when somebody has a drinking problem, but since I do not know who the other party is I will hold off in making that assumption. But you sure look suspect. Have you ever been to an anger managment class?

 

[Frank]

him giving his life on the cross was the ultimate example of love by taking on mankind's sins.

From the way I know it anyway.

So Jesus was a sin-eater. That's a very pagan concept.

And it was so civilized today.

 

[THE LIGHT]

No, because when push comes to shove it is Jesus in us that enables us to walk his path. And not only that, but we must be redeemed by his blood. As you stated in one of your later posts, Jesus is the only way. Why? because we must be reborn into a clean bloodline; one free from the sin nature inherited through the first Adam. This can only be done through Jesus. There is no other way to salvation.

For the life of the flesh is in the blood... Leviticus 17:11

"Christians and your bloody religion!" I have heard that a hundred times. So that is the verse that it applies to????

You either accept the price he so graciously paid for us or not. The choice is yours. But if I were you, I wouldn't hesitate to give some thought to your eternal destiny at a minimum. And who knows, maybe along the way you will see the light and realize how much your Creator and eternal Father in heaven cares for you. But remember, there is only one way to the Father and that is through the LORD Jesus Christ.

 

[rikules]

No, because when push comes to shove it is Jesus in us that enables us to walk his path. And not only that, but we must be redeemed by his blood. As you stated in one of your later posts, Jesus is the only way. Why? because we must be reborn into a clean bloodline; one free from the sin nature inherited through the first Adam. This can only be done through Jesus. There is no other way to salvation.

For the life of the flesh is in the blood... Leviticus 17:11

"Christians and your bloody religion!" I have heard that a hundred times. So that is the verse that it applies to????

You either accept the price he so graciously paid for us or not. The choice is yours. But if I were you, I wouldn't hesitate to give some thought to your eternal destiny at a minimum. And who knows, maybe along the way you will see the light and realize how much your Creator and eternal Father in heaven cares for you. But remember, there is only one way to the Father and that is through the LORD Jesus Christ.

"You either accept the price he so graciously paid for us or not."


price?

what price?

seems to me that god and jesus merely faked jesus' death....

i mean
jesus IS the son of god, right?

and had all these powers...

so

I imagine you can't actually kill the son of a god...

i'll bet he doesn't even feel pain.....


the whole thing was a plant
a fake
a staged event

like the moon landing

"But if I were you, I wouldn't hesitate to give some thought to your eternal destiny at a minimum. ""
But remember, there is only one way to the Father and that is through the LORD Jesus Christ."

and this is where we part company

you seem to think that this makes sense....

I mean.....eternal damnation?

fiery pits of hell?

the torment of demons?

are these the acts of a sane person?

you actually RESPECT and LOVE a god that would do these things?

this god is a sick and deranged son of a *****...

and you are WORSE for worshipping this nazi

good and decent people
whose worst crimes are that they had sex outside of marriage
or smoked pot
or merely didn't believe in the existance of a god

do NOT deserve such horrendous punishments!

THAT......
is SICK!

even if your god existed (this extremely deranged, angry and overly punitive devil that you present as your chosen deity)
I would REFUSE to worship him on principle!

unlike YOU
I have morals and ethics

unlike YOU
I will NOT sell my soul to a deranged god simply out of fear

 

[Avatar4321]

"Christians and your bloody religion!" I have heard that a hundred times. So that is the verse that it applies to????

You either accept the price he so graciously paid for us or not. The choice is yours. But if I were you, I wouldn't hesitate to give some thought to your eternal destiny at a minimum. And who knows, maybe along the way you will see the light and realize how much your Creator and eternal Father in heaven cares for you. But remember, there is only one way to the Father and that is through the LORD Jesus Christ.

"You either accept the price he so graciously paid for us or not."


price?

what price?

seems to me that god and jesus merely faked jesus' death....

i mean
jesus IS the son of god, right?

and had all these powers...

so

I imagine you can't actually kill the son of a god...

i'll bet he doesn't even feel pain.....


the whole thing was a plant
a fake
a staged event

like the moon landing

"But if I were you, I wouldn't hesitate to give some thought to your eternal destiny at a minimum. ""
But remember, there is only one way to the Father and that is through the LORD Jesus Christ."

and this is where we part company

you seem to think that this makes sense....

I mean.....eternal damnation?

fiery pits of hell?

the torment of demons?

are these the acts of a sane person?

you actually RESPECT and LOVE a god that would do these things?

this god is a sick and deranged son of a *****...

and you are WORSE for worshipping this nazi

good and decent people
whose worst crimes are that they had sex outside of marriage
or smoked pot
or merely didn't believe in the existance of a god

do NOT deserve such horrendous punishments!

THAT......
is SICK!

even if your god existed (this extremely deranged, angry and overly punitive devil that you present as your chosen deity)
I would REFUSE to worship him on principle!

unlike YOU
I have morals and ethics

unlike YOU
I will NOT sell my soul to a deranged god simply out of fear

You say that because you don't know Him. You have let your pride blind you to the actual state of man.

You think you are good? You think any of us are good? Are you honestly, telling me that you've lead a life of perfection?

You don't understand that to become like God, to inherit everything He has, we have to be perfected. And we can't do that without Him to help us.

It doesn't matter how small the imperfection, imperfection aka sin will keep you from becoming like God. You can only progress so far, and then you will be stopped or damned because you will cease to grow. That is why the Atonement was provided. So that we can overcome those limitations.

But what good is the gift if you don't accept and use it? What good is a phone if you don't call people with it? What good is a book if it's not read? What good is a bed if you sleep one the ground?

You can claw at the wall all day long, but until you walk over and climb up the ladder, you won't get to the top.

You are also wrong about our motivations. When you have felt the love of God, thoughts of damnation leave. When you experience His power, you can't help by rejuice by the pureness, goodness that exists. You are literally empowered to do anything that you need to do. Perfect love casts out all fear.

Ironically, your own post admits that Christ rose from the dead. And thankfully He did because without them we would be dead forever, having no redemption from physical death.

 

[JoLouis]

"You don't understand that to become like God, to inherit everything He has, we have to be perfected. And we can't do that without Him to help us."
It's amazing that you guys can live your whole lives in a certain way because you read something in a book to which you associate some sort of magical powers. I tip my hat to you for your dedication to a fictitious novel. I guess it's better than dressing up like Harry Potter and trying to ride a broom.

 

[Newby]

"You don't understand that to become like God, to inherit everything He has, we have to be perfected. And we can't do that without Him to help us."
It's amazing that you guys can live your whole lives in a certain way because you read something in a book to which you associate some sort of magical powers. I tip my hat to you for your dedication to a fictitious novel. I guess it's better than dressing up like Harry Potter and trying to ride a broom.

Maybe you should ask yourself why you care so much how people conduct their entire lives that you need to insult and belittle them. Does that somehow make you feel better, like you're surperior to them? I don't understand how people can be hurtful to others who are doing nothing to hurt them, all because they have a different viewpoint about the meaning of life. So, guess that makes us even.

 

[CurveLight]

Exactly who here is being dishonest?

You ******* trolling *****. What the hell was so ambiguous when I said I don't give a **** what you think? I wasn't joking.

My goodness! So much wrath and animus. Usually that happens when somebody has a drinking problem, but since I do not know who the other party is I will hold off in making that assumption. But you sure look suspect. Have you ever been to an anger managment class?

I teach anger management. What other bright observations do you have today?

 

[Anguille]

No, because when push comes to shove it is Jesus in us that enables us to walk his path. And not only that, but we must be redeemed by his blood. As you stated in one of your later posts, Jesus is the only way. Why? because we must be reborn into a clean bloodline; one free from the sin nature inherited through the first Adam. This can only be done through Jesus. There is no other way to salvation.

For the life of the flesh is in the blood... Leviticus 17:11

"Christians and your bloody religion!" I have heard that a hundred times. So that is the verse that it applies to????

You either accept the price he so graciously paid for us or not. The choice is yours. But if I were you, I wouldn't hesitate to give some thought to your eternal destiny at a minimum. And who knows, maybe along the way you will see the light and realize how much your Creator and eternal Father in heaven cares for you. But remember, there is only one way to the Father and that is through the LORD Jesus Christ.

Sez you.

 

[Anguille]

You either accept the price he so graciously paid for us or not. The choice is yours. But if I were you, I wouldn't hesitate to give some thought to your eternal destiny at a minimum. And who knows, maybe along the way you will see the light and realize how much your Creator and eternal Father in heaven cares for you. But remember, there is only one way to the Father and that is through the LORD Jesus Christ.

"You either accept the price he so graciously paid for us or not."


price?

what price?

seems to me that god and jesus merely faked jesus' death....

i mean
jesus IS the son of god, right?

and had all these powers...

so

I imagine you can't actually kill the son of a god...

i'll bet he doesn't even feel pain.....


the whole thing was a plant
a fake
a staged event

like the moon landing

"But if I were you, I wouldn't hesitate to give some thought to your eternal destiny at a minimum. ""
But remember, there is only one way to the Father and that is through the LORD Jesus Christ."

and this is where we part company

you seem to think that this makes sense....

I mean.....eternal damnation?

fiery pits of hell?

the torment of demons?

are these the acts of a sane person?

you actually RESPECT and LOVE a god that would do these things?

this god is a sick and deranged son of a *****...

and you are WORSE for worshipping this nazi

good and decent people
whose worst crimes are that they had sex outside of marriage
or smoked pot
or merely didn't believe in the existance of a god

do NOT deserve such horrendous punishments!

THAT......
is SICK!

even if your god existed (this extremely deranged, angry and overly punitive devil that you present as your chosen deity)
I would REFUSE to worship him on principle!

unlike YOU
I have morals and ethics

unlike YOU
I will NOT sell my soul to a deranged god simply out of fear

You say that because you don't know Him. You have let your pride blind you to the actual state of man.

You think you are good? You think any of us are good? Are you honestly, telling me that you've lead a life of perfection?

You don't understand that to become like God, to inherit everything He has, we have to be perfected. And we can't do that without Him to help us.

It doesn't matter how small the imperfection, imperfection aka sin will keep you from becoming like God. You can only progress so far, and then you will be stopped or damned because you will cease to grow. That is why the Atonement was provided. So that we can overcome those limitations.

But what good is the gift if you don't accept and use it? What good is a phone if you don't call people with it? What good is a book if it's not read? What good is a bed if you sleep one the ground?

You can claw at the wall all day long, but until you walk over and climb up the ladder, you won't get to the top.

You are also wrong about our motivations. When you have felt the love of God, thoughts of damnation leave. When you experience His power, you can't help by rejuice by the pureness, goodness that exists. You are literally empowered to do anything that you need to do. Perfect love casts out all fear.

Ironically, your own post admits that Christ rose from the dead. And thankfully He did because without them we would be dead forever, having no redemption from physical death.

And what of your own pride? You are so certain that you are right and that whatever it is that you have experienced is right for everyone else. I pity fools like you.

 

[Anguille]

"You don't understand that to become like God, to inherit everything He has, we have to be perfected. And we can't do that without Him to help us."
It's amazing that you guys can live your whole lives in a certain way because you read something in a book to which you associate some sort of magical powers. I tip my hat to you for your dedication to a fictitious novel. I guess it's better than dressing up like Harry Potter and trying to ride a broom.

I think Harry Potter is cuter than Jesus.

 

[Anguille]

"You don't understand that to become like God, to inherit everything He has, we have to be perfected. And we can't do that without Him to help us."
It's amazing that you guys can live your whole lives in a certain way because you read something in a book to which you associate some sort of magical powers. I tip my hat to you for your dedication to a fictitious novel. I guess it's better than dressing up like Harry Potter and trying to ride a broom.

Maybe you should ask yourself why you care so much how people conduct their entire lives that you need to insult and belittle them. Does that somehow make you feel better, like you're surperior to them? I don't understand how people can be hurtful to others who are doing nothing to hurt them, all because they have a different viewpoint about the meaning of life. So, guess that makes us even.

Do you not see how you insult and belittle others yourself? Or are you above blame because you have "The Lord" on your side?

 

[Anguille]

You ******* trolling *****. What the hell was so ambiguous when I said I don't give a **** what you think? I wasn't joking.

My goodness! So much wrath and animus. Usually that happens when somebody has a drinking problem, but since I do not know who the other party is I will hold off in making that assumption. But you sure look suspect. Have you ever been to an anger managment class?

I teach anger management. What other bright observations do you have today?

You must have a unique approach.

 

[Anguille]

I learned that meaning later on in life.

You're way ahead of me....I'm still a major ******* asshole.

no kidding!

He has probably found something in the Bible which gives him free license to be one.

 

[Newby]

"Christians and your bloody religion!" I have heard that a hundred times. So that is the verse that it applies to????

You either accept the price he so graciously paid for us or not. The choice is yours. But if I were you, I wouldn't hesitate to give some thought to your eternal destiny at a minimum. And who knows, maybe along the way you will see the light and realize how much your Creator and eternal Father in heaven cares for you. But remember, there is only one way to the Father and that is through the LORD Jesus Christ.

Sez you.

Exactly, that's his viewpoint. You have yours, he has his, I see no need to belittle what he believes or how he feels. His opinion isn't affecting your life in any way, just like yours isn't affecting his. See how simple it is? Why people are so thin skinned and defensive that they have to hurl insults is what is puzzling.

 

[Anguille]

him giving his life on the cross was the ultimate example of love by taking on mankind's sins.

From the way I know it anyway.

So Jesus was a sin-eater. That's a very pagan concept.

And it was so civilized today.

Thanks for the neg rep, Frank. So loving and Christian of you.

If you think Christ's message was new and original you have vast gaps of knowledge.

 

[Anguille]

You either accept the price he so graciously paid for us or not. The choice is yours. But if I were you, I wouldn't hesitate to give some thought to your eternal destiny at a minimum. And who knows, maybe along the way you will see the light and realize how much your Creator and eternal Father in heaven cares for you. But remember, there is only one way to the Father and that is through the LORD Jesus Christ.

Sez you.

Exactly, that's his viewpoint. You have yours, he has his, I see no need to belittle what he believes or how he feels. He opinion isn't affecting your life in any way, just like yours isn't affecting his. See how simple it is? Why people are so thin skinned and defensive that they have to hurl insults is what is puzzling.

So why do you continue to insult me? To call me a liar when I express my opinions and to encourage ScurvyDelight's abuse of me and others? Are only those whose opinions you approve of allowed respect? You are always on the defensive, Newby. I think your faith must be very fragile, thus your need to play victim.