Why does the left demonize affordable energy?

[Clementine]

What they really care about is power.

I think you're projecting your own feelings on to everyone else. You need to understand that other people aren't like you.

As far as the OP goes ... somebody made an experimental solar plane, therefore he says liberals hate every other plane. That's ... dumb.

Liberals love planes, especially private, fuel-guzzling planes as long as they are on them. Pelosi used to whine because she wanted the biggest plane to use.

No, they love their planes and they love their limos. What they hate is the little people driving pickup trucks and SUVs.

And many liberals are bitching about having those solar windmills near their property. They work, but so many people don't want to see or hear them.

They want their big houses, limos, private jets and yachts but they preach to the rest of us to take public transportation or buy tiny cars to save gas.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

What they really care about is power.

I think you're projecting your own feelings on to everyone else. You need to understand that other people aren't like you.

As far as the OP goes ... somebody made an experimental solar plane, therefore he says liberals hate every other plane. That's ... dumb.

Liberals love planes, especially private, fuel-guzzling planes as long as they are on them. Pelosi used to whine because she wanted the biggest plane to use.

No, they love their planes and they love their limos. What they hate is the little people driving pickup trucks and SUVs.

And many liberals are bitching about having those solar windmills near their property. They work, but so many people don't want to see or hear them.

They want their big houses, limos, private jets and yachts but they preach to the rest of us to take public transportation or buy tiny cars to save gas.

Kennedy tries to halt windmills

 

[Clementine]

Kennedy tries to halt windmills

Makes no sense if the goal is clean energy. Maybe that isn't really their goal.

And the cost of solar panels on homes is ridiculous. Many are getting them with help from tax payer money.

We need efficient and low cost ways to heat our homes and drive our cars. Electric cars are also grossly expensive so it's not like the average person can afford one.

Until there is an alternative that works as well and is reasonably priced, they need to stop attacking energy companies.

I'm sure they like us all to drive the little smart cars. You might get killed if you hit a deer or even a raccoon, but hey, you'll make the libs happy. They need the fuel for their mansions, planes, yachts and limos. Just like those Hollywood people who preach liberalism but when you see them arrive at the Oscars, one or two people get out of each limo and the limos are lined up for miles. They can't fucking carpool in a limo, but want us in those tiny death traps. Leonardo recently got an award for helping the environment and, of course, he rode in his private jet for the 8,000 trip. Now that's real concern when he could have gotten a first class ticket on any other plane.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Kennedy tries to halt windmills

Makes no sense if the goal is clean energy. Maybe that isn't really their goal.

And the cost of solar panels on homes is ridiculous. Many are getting them with help from tax payer money.

We need efficient and low cost ways to heat our homes and drive our cars. Electric cars are also grossly expensive so it's not like the average person can afford one.

Until there is an alternative that works as well and is reasonably priced, they need to stop attacking energy companies.

What the left wants to do is try to force the Model-T into fuel injection. It has to come on it's own time.

In 100 years from now, nobody will be using fossil fuel; not because of government mandate (hopefully), but because of technology developed by the private sector.

Clean energy is not leftists goals, clean energy is a reason for government to take control of our energy.

 

[easyt65]

Solyndra + 12....

Millions of tax dollars stolen and given to Obama high-dollar donors to cover their 'gambling' losses (the money they had invested in those 13 bankrupt 'green energy' companies)...

 

[Clementine]

They want to get rid of coal companies and tax the shit out of oil. Without an affordable alternative, we are so screwed.

Yea, lots of money lost on Solyndra and other companies. That whole thing was nothing but a scam.

They want to impose cap and trade policies, which will take down our economy. And the poor will be hit the hardest.

I am so sick of the left claiming they are helping people when their policies only make things worse for the average person.

Every move they make transfers more power from the people to government and the blind sheep are more worried about getting more free minutes on their Obamaphones and more money on their EBT cards. Useful idiots are everywhere and multiplying like rabbits.

 

[Andylusion]

You talking about solar photovoltaic? or the new type of linear solar thermal steam generators they're already using to get FREE energy in the form of the typical coal-fired steam turbine?

The BigOil and BigCoal advocates always forget to make the distinction what type of solar power they're talking about. No, I take that back, they always name the most inefficient and most expensive or failed type of solar applications as "the cutting edge in solar".

Have a look at the real cutting edge of solar. Every day of sunshine is a day the power company doesn't have to burn coal or oil to power the towns nearby. In heavily populated sunshine rich areas of the South and Southwest, the company can not be burning coal or oil during peak use times (day) for up to 300 days per year. Talk about improving your electric company's profit margin!

Just mirrors set up in a line, close to the oil tube they're heating to 300 degrees celsius..that's right...celsius..a couple of heat exchangers, some water and a turbine just like the ones in nuclear, coal and oil power plants.

BigOil and BigCoal advocates made it excessively clear in the first post, exactly what type of solar power they were talking about.

The only person confused on that, is apparently you. Try reading, before replying.

Second, if you can find a way to fit enough steam pipes, water, and mirrors, to power a Boeing 474 Jet, by all means patent and sell it. Otherwise, all your BS pipes and steam generators are a joke.

Third, there is nothing free about it. "Sun light is free!" So is oil. We don't pay the Earth, for the oil we get either. Both are free.

The cost is in collecting that free energy, and making it useful.

Moreover, there are always bleeding edge technologies that are supposed to explode the future into this amazing Utopia.

But your cited solar thermal power, isn't even an attempt at that Utopia. Did you even look at the numbers? 13¢ per watt? Coal is 7¢, and NatGas is 5¢. So it's more than double the conventional power cost, and you just cited that as your most efficient?

Not to mention you can't find how much the entire project costs, nor can you determine how much the government of California taxed the poor, to pay these big CEO investors, to make this power station.... oh and let's not forget it's a whooping 5 MWs of power. Oh they are planning to expand it to 25 MWs of power.

Let's see, the most tiny, cheapest, smallest, least power generating conventional power plant in Ohio is...... 480 MWs. One single natural gas power plant, is equal to 20 of your solar easy bake oven power plants.

I wonder how that compares in cost. I wager not favorably.

If this is the best your "free" energy crap has to offer.... then you don't have much to offer.

Not to say we shouldn't continue research, but don't pretend that you eco-freaks have it all figured out. You got nothing. NOTHING.

 

[Andylusion]

Ivanpah Solar Power Facility - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ivanpah is a failure. If you don't think so then please realize that this is one of the sunniest places in the United States and it can't meet its contractual obligations.

The answer is not these big public money funded projects but smaller solar and wind for residential service.

The footprint of individual solar is already occupied by the existing rooftops of the homes that will benefit for the additional electric generation. Small commercial wind can generate energy day and night in areas that are already developed for commercial or industrial use with requiring land grants of land or destroying the view from our coastlines.

Our politicians are pushing these large project because there is a lot of money being passed around to secure future energy monopolies.

If you belief that solar that doesn't work at night or in bad weather will ever replace oil, coal, natural gas then you don't understand the inherent limitations of the technology. If you believe that setting up multi-billion dollar facilities that require more public money and land while needing further subsidies in the form of higher energy costs for users is the best solution then you are wrong again.

Give people a tax credit and change the rules to make the current energy provider work with these systems. Let the user mount a system on their home or business. Then they can make the investment calculation that is right for them. The technology will come down in cost and become more viable over time.

Then you have the best of all worlds. Free market solutions really make the most sense.


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One of our customers was a big lib. He had a big windmill running his operations. I always found windmills decorative in a way. Talking with one of the workers one day, he told me that the owner finally broke even on his windmill investment after seven years, and the rest is free energy.

About two months went by and I went to the stop again, I was surprised that the top half of the windmill was gone. The owner was in back of the shop and I asked him about the windmill. He just pushed his two hands in the air as if he were pushing away something and said Aaaaaa.

Nobody is against better ways to create energy, but it has to be cost effective at the same time. I live in one of the windiest places in the country, so the city was considering putting up a giant windmill on Lake Erie. After doing the calculations, it would end up costing more to maintain and repair such a windmill than it would to just produce energy the way we are now.

Average life on a windmill is about 22 years. Many manufacturers base their calculations on 40 years but this is not reality based. 8 years is not the norm on a small commercial system. That is what one would expect out of something you buy off eBay.

Exactly right. And in addition, they also seem to ignore the operational losses over time. In other words, they pretend that a wind mill will produce the same amount of power in 10 years, that they do when they are first built. They assume that, because that's how a nuclear power plant would work. Power plants built in the 1970s, are still producing almost as much power today, as they were when they first turned on.

Wind mills.... Not so much. In 10 years, they will be producing only about 85% of the power they were originally making. In 20, only about 70%.

This is why break even analysis for green energy almost never is accurate.

 

[JoeB131]

They might. They spend a hell of a lot of time and money trying to scare the hell out of people.

The real problem is that nobody gets a bill from the government for environmental costs. It's intrinsic in all the products we buy. You never see it, but it's there.

DumBama forced restaurants to post calorie count on all their items. I say we should do the same with our products. Have Trump and the Republicans write a law that all products have to contain their environmental costs on the package.

Perhaps if people knew what they were actually paying out of their pockets for these costs, there wouldn't be so much support for it.

Guy, you live in a city where the River used to catch on fire because it was so fucking polluted.

Maybe you should think about the cost of NOT doing the environmental things.

 

[JoeB131]

In 100 years from now, nobody will be using fossil fuel; not because of government mandate (hopefully), but because of technology developed by the private sector.

Yes, Magic Pixie Dust from our great Capitalist Overlords...

They've resisted clean energy kicking and screaming the whole way.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Why does the right spend so much time trying to tell the left what the left thinks?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Why does the right spend so much time trying to tell the left what the left thinks?

Because the left doesn't know what they think themselves until somebody tells them.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

In 100 years from now, nobody will be using fossil fuel; not because of government mandate (hopefully), but because of technology developed by the private sector.

Yes, Magic Pixie Dust from our great Capitalist Overlords...

They've resisted clean energy kicking and screaming the whole way.

Of course they did because they understand nobody wants it now due to inefficiency and cost.

Private industry can't force people to buy something they don't want. Only government does that.

 

[JoeB131]

Of course they did because they understand nobody wants it now due to inefficiency and cost.

Private industry can't force people to buy something they don't want. Only government does that.

Actually, private industry spends Billions of dollars telling people they want things they don't need. If the government had the kind of propaganda spending private industry has, you'd be amazed how quickly minds can be swayed.

 

[Jarlaxle]

they hate the sun. they are the sun haters.

Well you can hardly blame them. Take a reflector from a car headlight out, put on a pair of welding glasses, put a piece of wood in the center clip where the bulb would go...point it at the sun and wait about 8 seconds. DO NOT LOOK NEAR THE CENTER OF THE CONCAVE REFLECTOR AT ALL.

Maybe they got burned by the sun this way? But it shows you how the linear fresnel solar thermal array, close to the target, can heat the oil in the tube up to 300 degrees CELSIUS very rapidly. BigOil doesn't want the public to know how much free energy there is trapped in a focused pool of solar radiation.

I could do that without bothering with the goggles...totally overcast right now, and will be for most of the next 2 days.

There is no free energy, Silly, everything has a cost...but you know that.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

They might. They spend a hell of a lot of time and money trying to scare the hell out of people.

The real problem is that nobody gets a bill from the government for environmental costs. It's intrinsic in all the products we buy. You never see it, but it's there.

DumBama forced restaurants to post calorie count on all their items. I say we should do the same with our products. Have Trump and the Republicans write a law that all products have to contain their environmental costs on the package.

Perhaps if people knew what they were actually paying out of their pockets for these costs, there wouldn't be so much support for it.

Guy, you live in a city where the River used to catch on fire because it was so fucking polluted.

Maybe you should think about the cost of NOT doing the environmental things.

That was different Joe. Putting chemicals in the river was experimental as the theory was the water would dilute the chemicals so much that they wouldn't be traceable. When the river caught fire, the theory was proven wrong. Water doesn't catch on fire, so we had empirical evidence that yes, those chemicals were polluting the waters.

That's not the case with other environmental situations that in most instances, are just quite normal such as warmer winters, hurricanes, tornadoes and so forth. Unlike the river, it's simply an unproven theory that we have spent trillions of dollars on, and made nobody happy in the process. In fact, I would be willing to bet that environmentalists are more unhappy now than they were 35 years ago.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Of course they did because they understand nobody wants it now due to inefficiency and cost.

Private industry can't force people to buy something they don't want. Only government does that.

Actually, private industry spends Billions of dollars telling people they want things they don't need. If the government had the kind of propaganda spending private industry has, you'd be amazed how quickly minds can be swayed.

Yes Joe, it's called advertising. We've been using it for many decades now.

 

[JoeB131]

That was different Joe. Putting chemicals in the river was experimental as the theory was the water would dilute the chemicals so much that they wouldn't be traceable. When the river caught fire, the theory was proven wrong. Water doesn't catch on fire, so we had empirical evidence that yes, those chemicals were polluting the waters.

Right. those kind hearted rich people were just trying to dillute the flammable chemicals... not put them somewhere to get them out of the way.

That's not the case with other environmental situations that in most instances, are just quite normal such as warmer winters, hurricanes, tornadoes and so forth. Unlike the river, it's simply an unproven theory that we have spent trillions of dollars on, and made nobody happy in the process. In fact, I would be willing to bet that environmentalists are more unhappy now than they were 35 years ago.

Except Global Warming isn't "unproven". You only have to look at the retreating glaciers, melting ice caps and buildings collapsing due permafrost disappearing to see that.

The problem is with you deniers is that you are evidence-impervious. There's no evidence they can present you with that would make you accept more government control. You people would rather condemn future generations to death than accept government control because you done hates the government, Cleetus.

 

[JoeB131]

Yes Joe, it's called advertising. We've been using it for many decades now.

Another point that went right over your pointed head, Cleetus.

 

[Wilbur Right]

And from what I understand, the costs of repair and maintenance outweigh the savings.

Yea but you think you understand a lot of things that you don't.