Why Do So Few Admit To Being Liberals?

[Sallow]

No.. actually, just pointing out how far off the deep-end liberals have gone.

Starting two wars with no way to pay for them, one of which, Iraq, against, there was no reason to do so, is about as "deep-ended" as it comes.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

That's because over time, liberals win. That's because the victories of liberals/progressives have moved the country to the left since 1960. The battles that the conservatives were fighting at the time have mostly been lost. As will most of the battles conservatives are fighting today be lost.

That's what progress does. It rolls over those who lie in its path.

The pendulum swings both ways. Progressives win by taking not giving,that is gonna come back and bite you in the ass. Ideal is not lost. Principle is not lost. Value for value is not lost. Justice and fair play are not lost. Collectivism is more like Hell than Heaven Sparky. Get off your lazy ass and earn your own bread. It beats the unholy need to subjugate others.

Subjugate is what you want to talk about? Liberals won women the right to vote. Liberals ended segregation. Liberals are winning gays the right to serve in the military, and the right to marry. Liberals won women the right to a legal abortion. And liberals won you so many things you now take for granted that you can't even remember to whom you owe the thanks.

You left out generational welfare, 18% unemplpoyment, bankrupt national pension and health insurance and government and generational theft, thanks!

 

[NYcarbineer]

Of course, you do realize that in today's political landscape, JFK would be a Republican, and would be pilloried by the left.

What an absurd statement. What about the New Frontier reflects modern Republicanism to you? A sampling of his policies:

Economy

• The Kennedy Administration pushed an economic stimulus program through congress in an effort to kick-start the American economy following an economic downturn. On February the 2nd 1961, Kennedy sent a comprehensive Economic Message to Congress which had been in preparation for several weeks The legislative proposals put forward in this message included[9]:
  
  (1.) The addition of a temporary thirteen-week supplement to jobless benefits,
  
  (2.) The extension of aid to the children of unemployed workers,
  
  (3.) The redevelopment of distressed areas,
  
  (4.) An increase in Social Security payments and the encouragement of earlier retirement,
  
  (5.) An increase in the minimum wage and an extension in coverage,
  
  (6.) The provision of emergency relief to feed grain farmers, and
  
  (7.) The financing of a comprehensive home-building and slum clearance program[10].
  
  The following month, the first of these seven measures became law, and the remaining six measures had been signed by the end of June. Altogether, the economic stimulus program provided an estimated 420,000 construction jobs under a new Housing Act, $175 million in higher wages for those below the new minimum, over $400 million in aid to over 1,000 distressed counties, over $200 million in extra welfare payments to 750,000 children and their parents, and nearly $800 million in extended unemployment benefits for nearly three million unemployed Americans[11].

[...]

Labor

• Amendments to the Fair Labor Standards Act in 1961 greatly expanded the FLSA's scope in the retail trade sector and increased the minimum wage for previously covered workers to $1.15 an hour effective September 1961 and to $1.25 an hour in September 1963. The minimum for workers newly subject to the Act was set at $1.00 an hour effective September 1961, $1.15 an hour in September 1964, and $1.25 an hour in September 1965. Retail and service establishments were allowed to employ full-time students at wages of no more than 15 percent below the minimum with proper certification from the Department of Labor. The amendments extended coverage to employees of retail trade enterprises with sales exceeding $1 million annually, although individual establishments within those covered enterprises were exempt if their annual sales fell below $250,000. The concept of enterprise coverage was introduced by the 1961 amendments. Those amendments extended coverage in the retail trade industry from an established 250,000 workers to 2.2 million.
• An Executive Order was issued (1962) which provided federal employees with collective bargaining rights[19].
• Executive Order 10988 became effective in the Department of Health, Education and Welfare (1962), which provided for “official recognition of employee organizations and a formal means of employee participation in matters affecting employment conditions”[20].

[...]

Education

• The Higher Education Act of 1963 authorized several times more college aid within a five-year period than had been appropriated under the Land Grant College in a century, and provided better college libraries, ten to twenty new graduate centers, several new technical institutes, classrooms for several hundred thousand students, and twenty-five to thirty new community colleges a year. A separate education bill enacted that same year provided similar assistance to dental and medical schools[22].
• Scholarships and student loans were broadened under existing laws by Kennedy, and new means of specialised aid to education were invented or expanded by the president, including an increase in funds for libraries and school lunches, the provision of funds to teach the deaf, the handicapped, the retarded, and the exceptional child, the authorisation of literacy training under Manpower Development, the allocation of President funds to stop dropouts, a quadrupling of vocational education, and working together with schools on delinquency. Altogether, these measures attacked serious educational problems and freed up local funds for use on general construction and salaries[23].

Welfare

• Unemployment and welfare benefits were expanded[27].
• In 1961, Social Security benefits were increased by 20% and provision for early retirement was introduced, enabling workers to retire at the age of sixty-two while receiving partial benefits[28].
• The Social Security Amendments of 1961 permitted male workers to elect early retirement age 62, increased minimum benefits, liberalized the benefit payments to aged widow, widower, or surviving dependent parent, and also liberalized eligibility requirements and the retirement test[29].
• The 1962 amendments to the Social Security Act authorized the federal government to reimburse states for the provision of social services[30].
• The School Lunch Act was amended for authority to begin providing free meals in poverty-stricken areas[31].
• A pilot food stamp program was launched (1961), covering six areas in the United States. In 1962, the program was extended to eighteen areas, feeding 240,000 people[32].
• Various school lunch and school milk programs were extended, “enabling 700,000 more children to enjoy a hot school lunch and eighty-five thousand more schools, child care centers, and camps to receive fresh milk”[33].
• Aid to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC) replaced the Aid to Dependent Children (ADC) program, as coverage was extended to adults caring for dependent children[34].
• A major revision of the public welfare laws was carried out, with a $300 million modernisation which emphasised rehabilitation instead of relief”[35].
• A temporary antirecession supplement to unemployment compensation was introduced[36].
• Food distribution to needy Americans was increased[37]. In January 1961, the first executive order issued by Kennedy mandated that the Department of Agriculture increase the quantity and variety of foods donated for needy households. This executive order represented a shift in the Commodity Distribution Programs’ primary purpose, from surplus disposal to that of providing nutritious foods to low-income households[38].
• Social Security benefits were extended to an additional five million Americans[39].

[...]

Housing

• The most comprehensive housing and urban renewal program in American history up until that point was carried out, including the first major provisions for middle-income housing, protection of urban open spaces, public mass transit, and private low-income housing[43].
• Omnibus Housing Bill 1961. In March 1961 Kennedy sent Congress a special message, proposing an ambitious and complex housing program to spur the economy, revitalize cities, and provide affordable housing for middle- and low-income families. The bill proposed spending $3.19 billion and placed major emphasis on improving the existing housing supply, instead of on new housing starts, and creating a cabinet-level Department of Housing and Urban Affairs to oversee the programs.

[...]

Unemployment

• To help the unemployed, Kennedy broadened the distribution of surplus food, created a “pilot” Food Stamp program for poor Americans, directed that preference be given to distressed areas in defense contracts, and expanded the services of U.S. Employment Offices[47].
• The first accelerated public works program for areas of unemployment since the New Deal was launched”[48].
• The first full-scale modernization and expansion of the vocational education laws since 1946 were carried out”[49].
• The Manpower Development and Training Act of 1962 authorized a three-year program aimed at retraining workers displaced by new technology. The bill did not exclude employed workers from benefiting and it authorized a training allowance for unemployed participants. Even though 200,000 people were recruited, there was minimal impact, comparatively. The Area Redevelopment Act, a $394 million spending package passed in 1961, followed a strategy of investing in the private sector to stimulate new job creation. It specifically targeted businesses in urban and rural depressed areas and authorized $4.5 million annually over four years for vocational training programs. The 1963 amendments to the National Defense Education Act included $731 million in appropriations to states and localities maintaining vocational training programs.[50]

Medical

• In 1963 Kennedy, who had a mentally ill sister named Rosemary, submitted the nation's first Presidential special message to Congress on mental health issues. Congress quickly passed the Mental Retardation Facilities and Community Mental Health Centers Construction Act (P.L. 88-164), beginning a new era in Federal support for mental health services. The National Institute of Mental Health assumed responsibility for monitoring community mental health centers programs.[51] This measure was a great success as there was a sixfold increase in people using Mental Health facilities.
• A Medical Health Bill for the Aged (later known as Medicare) was proposed, but Congress failed to enact it.
• Community Health Services and Facilities Act (1961) increased the amount of funds available for nursing home construction and extended the research and demonstration grant program to other medical facilities[52].
• The Health Services for Agricultural Migratory Workers Act (1962) established “a program of federal grants for family clinics and other health services for migrant workers and their families”[53].
• The first major amendments to the food and drug safety laws since 1938 were carried out[54]. The Drug Amendments of 1962 amended the Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act (1938) by strengthening the provisions related to the regulation of therapeutic drugs. The Act required evidence that new drugs proposed for marketing were both safe and effective, and required improved manufacturing processes and procedures[55].
• The Vaccination Assistance Act (1962) provided for the vaccination of millions of children against a number of diseases[56].

[...]

Environment

• The Clean Air Act (1963) expanded the powers of the federal government in preventing and controlling air pollution.
• The first major additions to the National Park System since 1946 were made, which included the preservation of wilderness areas and a fund for future acquisitions”[61].
• The water pollution prevention program was doubled”[62].

Crime

• The first significant package of anticrime bills since 1934 were passed[63].
• The Juvenile Delinquency and Youth Offenses Control Act was signed into law September 22, 1961. The program aimed to prevent youth from committing delinquent acts. In 1963, 288 mobsters were brought to trial by a team that was headed by Kennedy's brother, Robert.

What about a muscular foreign policy and tax cuts of Kennedy, and the environmental policies of Nixon, or would you think he was a liberal?

Be serious.

What about Obama escalating the Afghanistan war, increasing the drone attacks on al qaeda, AND cutting taxes as well as supporting extending 95% of the current tax cuts. By your own 'logic' that would make Obama a Kennedy Republican.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

No.. actually, just pointing out how far off the deep-end liberals have gone.

Starting two wars with no way to pay for them, one of which, Iraq, against, there was no reason to do so, is about as "deep-ended" as it comes.

Wait for it.. wait for it.... Booooooooooooosssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Come back to Earth there Moonbeam.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

I think the reality is, there really aren't that many liberals. They are a true minority, albeit a very noisy minority...

And this is why most conservatives fight tooth and nail to restrict voting?

Yeppers..minority all right.

We can start by getting rid of the electoral college and see just who really are in the "minority".

Huh? A little early for the hookah isn't it?

 

[del]

Of course, you do realize that in today's political landscape, JFK would be a Republican, and would be pilloried by the left.

What an absurd statement. What about the New Frontier reflects modern Republicanism to you? A sampling of his policies:

Economy

• The Kennedy Administration pushed an economic stimulus program through congress in an effort to kick-start the American economy following an economic downturn. On February the 2nd 1961, Kennedy sent a comprehensive Economic Message to Congress which had been in preparation for several weeks The legislative proposals put forward in this message included[9]:
  
  (1.) The addition of a temporary thirteen-week supplement to jobless benefits,
  
  (2.) The extension of aid to the children of unemployed workers,
  
  (3.) The redevelopment of distressed areas,
  
  (4.) An increase in Social Security payments and the encouragement of earlier retirement,
  
  (5.) An increase in the minimum wage and an extension in coverage,
  
  (6.) The provision of emergency relief to feed grain farmers, and
  
  (7.) The financing of a comprehensive home-building and slum clearance program[10].
  
  The following month, the first of these seven measures became law, and the remaining six measures had been signed by the end of June. Altogether, the economic stimulus program provided an estimated 420,000 construction jobs under a new Housing Act, $175 million in higher wages for those below the new minimum, over $400 million in aid to over 1,000 distressed counties, over $200 million in extra welfare payments to 750,000 children and their parents, and nearly $800 million in extended unemployment benefits for nearly three million unemployed Americans[11].

[...]

Labor

• Amendments to the Fair Labor Standards Act in 1961 greatly expanded the FLSA's scope in the retail trade sector and increased the minimum wage for previously covered workers to $1.15 an hour effective September 1961 and to $1.25 an hour in September 1963. The minimum for workers newly subject to the Act was set at $1.00 an hour effective September 1961, $1.15 an hour in September 1964, and $1.25 an hour in September 1965. Retail and service establishments were allowed to employ full-time students at wages of no more than 15 percent below the minimum with proper certification from the Department of Labor. The amendments extended coverage to employees of retail trade enterprises with sales exceeding $1 million annually, although individual establishments within those covered enterprises were exempt if their annual sales fell below $250,000. The concept of enterprise coverage was introduced by the 1961 amendments. Those amendments extended coverage in the retail trade industry from an established 250,000 workers to 2.2 million.
• An Executive Order was issued (1962) which provided federal employees with collective bargaining rights[19].
• Executive Order 10988 became effective in the Department of Health, Education and Welfare (1962), which provided for “official recognition of employee organizations and a formal means of employee participation in matters affecting employment conditions”[20].

[...]

Education

• The Higher Education Act of 1963 authorized several times more college aid within a five-year period than had been appropriated under the Land Grant College in a century, and provided better college libraries, ten to twenty new graduate centers, several new technical institutes, classrooms for several hundred thousand students, and twenty-five to thirty new community colleges a year. A separate education bill enacted that same year provided similar assistance to dental and medical schools[22].
• Scholarships and student loans were broadened under existing laws by Kennedy, and new means of specialised aid to education were invented or expanded by the president, including an increase in funds for libraries and school lunches, the provision of funds to teach the deaf, the handicapped, the retarded, and the exceptional child, the authorisation of literacy training under Manpower Development, the allocation of President funds to stop dropouts, a quadrupling of vocational education, and working together with schools on delinquency. Altogether, these measures attacked serious educational problems and freed up local funds for use on general construction and salaries[23].

Welfare

• Unemployment and welfare benefits were expanded[27].
• In 1961, Social Security benefits were increased by 20% and provision for early retirement was introduced, enabling workers to retire at the age of sixty-two while receiving partial benefits[28].
• The Social Security Amendments of 1961 permitted male workers to elect early retirement age 62, increased minimum benefits, liberalized the benefit payments to aged widow, widower, or surviving dependent parent, and also liberalized eligibility requirements and the retirement test[29].
• The 1962 amendments to the Social Security Act authorized the federal government to reimburse states for the provision of social services[30].
• The School Lunch Act was amended for authority to begin providing free meals in poverty-stricken areas[31].
• A pilot food stamp program was launched (1961), covering six areas in the United States. In 1962, the program was extended to eighteen areas, feeding 240,000 people[32].
• Various school lunch and school milk programs were extended, “enabling 700,000 more children to enjoy a hot school lunch and eighty-five thousand more schools, child care centers, and camps to receive fresh milk”[33].
• Aid to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC) replaced the Aid to Dependent Children (ADC) program, as coverage was extended to adults caring for dependent children[34].
• A major revision of the public welfare laws was carried out, with a $300 million modernisation which emphasised rehabilitation instead of relief”[35].
• A temporary antirecession supplement to unemployment compensation was introduced[36].
• Food distribution to needy Americans was increased[37]. In January 1961, the first executive order issued by Kennedy mandated that the Department of Agriculture increase the quantity and variety of foods donated for needy households. This executive order represented a shift in the Commodity Distribution Programs’ primary purpose, from surplus disposal to that of providing nutritious foods to low-income households[38].
• Social Security benefits were extended to an additional five million Americans[39].

[...]

Housing

• The most comprehensive housing and urban renewal program in American history up until that point was carried out, including the first major provisions for middle-income housing, protection of urban open spaces, public mass transit, and private low-income housing[43].
• Omnibus Housing Bill 1961. In March 1961 Kennedy sent Congress a special message, proposing an ambitious and complex housing program to spur the economy, revitalize cities, and provide affordable housing for middle- and low-income families. The bill proposed spending $3.19 billion and placed major emphasis on improving the existing housing supply, instead of on new housing starts, and creating a cabinet-level Department of Housing and Urban Affairs to oversee the programs.

[...]

Unemployment

• To help the unemployed, Kennedy broadened the distribution of surplus food, created a “pilot” Food Stamp program for poor Americans, directed that preference be given to distressed areas in defense contracts, and expanded the services of U.S. Employment Offices[47].
• The first accelerated public works program for areas of unemployment since the New Deal was launched”[48].
• The first full-scale modernization and expansion of the vocational education laws since 1946 were carried out”[49].
• The Manpower Development and Training Act of 1962 authorized a three-year program aimed at retraining workers displaced by new technology. The bill did not exclude employed workers from benefiting and it authorized a training allowance for unemployed participants. Even though 200,000 people were recruited, there was minimal impact, comparatively. The Area Redevelopment Act, a $394 million spending package passed in 1961, followed a strategy of investing in the private sector to stimulate new job creation. It specifically targeted businesses in urban and rural depressed areas and authorized $4.5 million annually over four years for vocational training programs. The 1963 amendments to the National Defense Education Act included $731 million in appropriations to states and localities maintaining vocational training programs.[50]

Medical

• In 1963 Kennedy, who had a mentally ill sister named Rosemary, submitted the nation's first Presidential special message to Congress on mental health issues. Congress quickly passed the Mental Retardation Facilities and Community Mental Health Centers Construction Act (P.L. 88-164), beginning a new era in Federal support for mental health services. The National Institute of Mental Health assumed responsibility for monitoring community mental health centers programs.[51] This measure was a great success as there was a sixfold increase in people using Mental Health facilities.
• A Medical Health Bill for the Aged (later known as Medicare) was proposed, but Congress failed to enact it.
• Community Health Services and Facilities Act (1961) increased the amount of funds available for nursing home construction and extended the research and demonstration grant program to other medical facilities[52].
• The Health Services for Agricultural Migratory Workers Act (1962) established “a program of federal grants for family clinics and other health services for migrant workers and their families”[53].
• The first major amendments to the food and drug safety laws since 1938 were carried out[54]. The Drug Amendments of 1962 amended the Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act (1938) by strengthening the provisions related to the regulation of therapeutic drugs. The Act required evidence that new drugs proposed for marketing were both safe and effective, and required improved manufacturing processes and procedures[55].
• The Vaccination Assistance Act (1962) provided for the vaccination of millions of children against a number of diseases[56].

[...]

Environment

• The Clean Air Act (1963) expanded the powers of the federal government in preventing and controlling air pollution.
• The first major additions to the National Park System since 1946 were made, which included the preservation of wilderness areas and a fund for future acquisitions”[61].
• The water pollution prevention program was doubled”[62].

Crime

• The first significant package of anticrime bills since 1934 were passed[63].
• The Juvenile Delinquency and Youth Offenses Control Act was signed into law September 22, 1961. The program aimed to prevent youth from committing delinquent acts. In 1963, 288 mobsters were brought to trial by a team that was headed by Kennedy's brother, Robert.

What about a muscular foreign policy and tax cuts of Kennedy, and the environmental policies of Nixon, or would you think he was a liberal?

Be serious.

nixon established wage/price controls. yeah, he was a true conservative.

 

[Intense]

What an absurd statement. What about the New Frontier reflects modern Republicanism to you? A sampling of his policies:

What about a muscular foreign policy and tax cuts of Kennedy, and the environmental policies of Nixon, or would you think he was a liberal?

Be serious.

What about Obama escalating the Afghanistan war, increasing the drone attacks on al qaeda, AND cutting taxes as well as supporting extending 95% of the current tax cuts. By your own 'logic' that would make Obama a Kennedy Republican.

In my words, Obama is a Tyrant.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

What about a muscular foreign policy and tax cuts of Kennedy, and the environmental policies of Nixon, or would you think he was a liberal?

Be serious.

What about Obama escalating the Afghanistan war, increasing the drone attacks on al qaeda, AND cutting taxes as well as supporting extending 95% of the current tax cuts. By your own 'logic' that would make Obama a Kennedy Republican.

In my words, Obama is a Tyrant.

Yup. Agreed. The Boy King....

 

[Intense]

What about Obama escalating the Afghanistan war, increasing the drone attacks on al qaeda, AND cutting taxes as well as supporting extending 95% of the current tax cuts. By your own 'logic' that would make Obama a Kennedy Republican.

In my words, Obama is a Tyrant.

Yup. Agreed. The Boy King....

The Boy King that want's to be a God. Hammurabi Wannabe.

 

[Sallow]

Starting two wars with no way to pay for them, one of which, Iraq, against, there was no reason to do so, is about as "deep-ended" as it comes.

Wait for it.. wait for it.... Booooooooooooosssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Come back to Earth there Moonbeam.

When in the face of reality I guess there's nothing more then insults as a means of retort.

But heck..that's the history. Deal or don't.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Wait for it.. wait for it.... Booooooooooooosssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Come back to Earth there Moonbeam.

When in the face of reality I guess there's nothing more then insults as a means of retort.

But heck..that's the history. Deal or don't.

As opposed to what, blaming Bush? You left nothing that required retort. Get over yourself.

 

[Sallow]

nixon established wage/price controls. yeah, he was a true conservative.

That was about the nuttiest policy ever...wage freezes to control inflation.

Nutty until now.

 

[Trajan]

What about a muscular foreign policy

What a nebulous phrase. Does LBJ's escalation of Vietnam pin him as a Republican, Great Society be damned? Does Obama's escalation in Afghanistan mark him as a Republican? Yes, Kennedy supported defense spending. Yet Kennedy--he of the Peace Corps and the American University speech--is noted most for avoiding a war in 1962, not starting one.

and tax cuts of Kennedy

Periodically the tax code undergoes simplifications (in fact there's a bipartisan attempt to simplify the tax code circulating even today). During Kennedy's term there were 24 different marginal rates with the top going as far as 90%. Obviously a simplification and cut was a good idea. Jimmy Carter did the same thing in 1977--was he a Republican?

The reality is that Kennedy was not only a Democrat, he was a proud liberal. And his policies reflect that.

Tax cuts? oh sure he massaged them, ( you are doing what you do in the healthcare threads, obfuscating btw) BUT, so did Reagan, what Kennedy did really was for him and the dem. party at that time and place, a sea change and you know it.

Bay of Pigs? Ich bin ein Berliner...? avoiding a nuclear missile exchange that would have pretty much destroyed the world by standing up to and staring down Khrushchev is a 'liberal' trait?

Kennedy was going now where ala Vietnam, he was there to stay, period. Only Oliver Stone acolytes believe differently.


He was also all for 'A help up, NOT a Hand Out... ...remember that one?

How about Abortion? Lets see; who was; "Whizzer" White and why is he significant?




Scoop Jackson and his ilk have long left the dem party and you know it. I can see Kennedy running in a rep. primary easily, I cannot see him running in a dem one...no way.

 

[topspin]

soggy adds nothing but childish insults

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

soggy adds nothing but childish insults

Here's your insult.. you functionally illiterate, broke-ass North Shore hick.

Feel better?

 

[Dick Tuck]

What about a muscular foreign policy

What a nebulous phrase. Does LBJ's escalation of Vietnam pin him as a Republican, Great Society be damned? Does Obama's escalation in Afghanistan mark him as a Republican? Yes, Kennedy supported defense spending. Yet Kennedy--he of the Peace Corps and the American University speech--is noted most for avoiding a war in 1962, not starting one.

and tax cuts of Kennedy

Periodically the tax code undergoes simplifications (in fact there's a bipartisan attempt to simplify the tax code circulating even today). During Kennedy's term there were 24 different marginal rates with the top going as far as 90%. Obviously a simplification and cut was a good idea. Jimmy Carter did the same thing in 1977--was he a Republican?

The reality is that Kennedy was not only a Democrat, he was a proud liberal. And his policies reflect that.

Tax cuts? oh sure he massaged them, ( you are doing what you do in the healthcare threads, obfuscating btw) BUT, so did Reagan, what Kennedy did really was for him and the dem. party at that time and place, a sea change and you know it.

Bay of Pigs? Ich bin ein Berliner...? avoiding a nuclear missile exchange that would have pretty much destroyed the world by standing up to and staring down Khrushchev is a 'liberal' trait?

Kennedy was going now where ala Vietnam, he was there to stay, period. Only Oliver Stone acolytes believe differently.


He was also all for 'A help up, NOT a Hand Out... ...remember that one?

How about Abortion? Lets see; who was; "Whizzer" White and why is he significant?




Scoop Jackson and his ilk have long left the dem party and you know it. I can see Kennedy running in a rep. primary easily, I cannot see him running in a dem one...no way.

Nixon, Ford, and Rockefeller would be tossed out of today's GOP. They'd be called RINOs.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Starting two wars with no way to pay for them, one of which, Iraq, against, there was no reason to do so, is about as "deep-ended" as it comes.

Wait for it.. wait for it.... Booooooooooooosssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Come back to Earth there Moonbeam.

How comical, to watch you old Bush-supporters SQUIRM, when you hear his screw-ups listed!!!!

November 20, 2004​

"9-11 must be trumpeted as a "triumph of the human spirit" instead of what Bill Maher called "a f*** up by a guy on vacation." It's four more years of floggings, folks-get used to hearing the whipping boys screaming not for mercy but for more strokes of the bloody scourge against their own flesh. Get used to the Bush backers waving their flags even more frenetically, their robotic smiles pasted on with even more fervor, their gas-guzzling SUV's covered with even more yellow ribbon stickers, their self-assurance even more self-assured.

It's a lot easier than thinking."

 

[Sallow]

As opposed to what, blaming Bush? You left nothing that required retort. Get over yourself.

Blaming Bush for 2 wars with no means to pay for them. Well yes..that's what he did. Not only that..he cut taxes.

No deflection, distortion or revision is going to change that. It was disastrous. Along with many other policies that were remarkably terrible.

If one wants to support that..fine. But this constant denial of what exactly went on during the Bush administration is backward.

I am a big fan of the Demmings cycle. And the first thing you do to fix a problem is identify the flaws. Not ignore them.

 

[Ozmar]

That's because over time, liberals win. That's because the victories of liberals/progressives have moved the country to the left since 1960. The battles that the conservatives were fighting at the time have mostly been lost. As will most of the battles conservatives are fighting today be lost.

That's what progress does. It rolls over those who lie in its path.

The pendulum swings both ways. Progressives win by taking not giving,that is gonna come back and bite you in the ass. Ideal is not lost. Principle is not lost. Value for value is not lost. Justice and fair play are not lost. Collectivism is more like Hell than Heaven Sparky. Get off your lazy ass and earn your own bread. It beats the unholy need to subjugate others.

Subjugate is what you want to talk about? Liberals won women the right to vote. Liberals ended segregation. Liberals are winning gays the right to serve in the military, and the right to marry. Liberals won women the right to a legal abortion. And liberals won you so many things you now take for granted that you can't even remember to whom you owe the thanks.

So liberals were doing good up until a point?

 

[Wry Catcher]

Hey, PC. Did you know that certain 'liberals' (ok, WhineCrapper to be exact) can't tell us apart. How funny is that? I guess all right wingers must look alike.

Look alike? Can't say that you do or don't "look alike" but it's pretty clear you're both rigid RW conservatives and both have demonstrated with disdain any ideas which differ than your - collective - 'own'.
Unlike you CG when I err, I admit the mistake. Honestly, confusing the posts of two RWers is not a carless error, given 'your kind' all march to the same beat - hence the label echo chamber.
The American liberal, often misspelled as Liberal out of ignorance, is not a lock-step or one issue entity; the word itself has evolved over time and today has become a pejorative, hence, the term progressive used by those of us interested in evolutionary change, and opposed to the Reactionary RW which has taken over the Republican Party.
A progressive - as suggested by the root word, progress - looks to effective positive change; a reactionary fears change to the extent they (generally) refuse to debate it.
It is much easier for a RW fringer to simply use pejoratives and made up words, 'Whinecrapper', for example, or to dismiss ideas as un-American or Socialism then to get down to the basics and really discuss and issue.

Anyway, thanks for sharing.