Why Didn't NY's "Red Flag Law" not apply to Payton S. Gendron (Buffalo Shooter) in 2021?

[miketx]

Plucking people off the street and committing them is unconstitutional and rightfully so, because a law making that legal could and IMO would be heavily abused.

Commies always out themselves.

 

[miketx]

Tommy is correct.

Reported for extreme profanity insanity!

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Plucking people off the street and committing them is unconstitutional and rightfully so, because a law making that legal could and IMO would be heavily abused.

I'm not talking about randomly "plucking" people off the street. I'm talking about the police and other health authorities encountering these people on the street due to calls being made about them and taking them to mental health treatments instead of jail, which is what happens now. Jail doesn't fix their problems. They're there for one or two nights and then released back out on the streets. The last time I rode with my brother, the first guy we picked up sleeping in one of the tunnels was a guy my brother had already arrested and taken in eight times. He camps out in the drainage tunnel right underneath the fucking police station. We've had two murders on the Strip in the past year committed by a mentally ill homeless person.

I believe it's the Netherlands where it's illegal to sleep out or set up camp on the public streets. Homeless people are required to check into a shelter each night or they're picked up and arrested. There is no reason why we can't do the same thing, but we don't have the financial resources for it.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Stop putting leftist scum in office.

And that does what exactly?

 

[1srelluc]

So what's your solution?

Tommy is correct. We do need to spend more money on mental health treatment in this country and we need to change our laws so that it's easier to involuntarily commit people for treatment. Almost every one of these mass shooters have had two things in common: their mental health was out of check and they were medicated by psychotropic drugs.

How much time have you spent engaging with the homeless? We have an increasing homelessness problem here in Las Vegas. My brother is a cop for Metro. I've been on ride-alongs with him and almost every homeless person we encountered and arrested was either mentally ill, a drug addict, or both. It seems to go hand in hand. We should be able to pick these people up off the streets, admit them to a mental health facility for the treatment they need and get their heads on straight and then return them to society with additional follow up care so they don't revert back. This is what goes on in some other countries, but we lack the financial resources for it.

Negative, neither he or you are correct. There is plenty of money available, it's just not being spent where it needs to be spent.

But OK, I'll play....Say all of a sudden funds were available to do what you think should be done.....Where are you going to put them?

You need to wake-up to the fact that there are very few nut-houses with the security needed to house those people and that the existing ones are over-populated and under-staffed. The infrastructure of the 70s is gone and it has been gone since the 90s....Then there is the fact of our ever-increasing population so you will need even more nut-houses than you did in the 70s.

So you are now left with building new nut-houses and finding the mental health professionals and staff needed to run them. There are no short cuts either, do you know of a university that would churn-out the number of mental health professionals that would be needed?

Seems to me you could build/staff a lot of nut-houses with the 40 billion being sent to Ukraine and the billions being sent to other shit-holes around the world.

But I'll leave it up to you....What will you sacrifice in order to get things up to snuff? Just keep in mind that the .gov thinks more of foreigners than you.

 

[Wild Bill Kelsoe]

I'm not talking about randomly "plucking" people off the street. I'm talking about the police and other health authorities encountering these people on the street due to calls being made about them and taking them to mental health treatments instead of jail, which is what happens now. Jail doesn't fix their problems. They're there for one or two nights and then released back out on the streets. The last time I rode with my brother, the first guy we picked up sleeping in one of the tunnels was a guy my brother had already arrested and taken in eight times. He camps out in the drainage tunnel right underneath the fucking police station. We've had two murders on the Strip in the past year committed by a mentally ill homeless person.

I believe it's the Netherlands where it's illegal to sleep out or set up camp on the public streets. Homeless people are required to check into a shelter each night or they're picked up and arrested. There is no reason why we can't do the same thing, but we don't have the financial resources for it.

I still believe such an authority would be heavily abused.

There are millions of bonefide crazy people in the country that never have and never will cause any harm to anyone.

If we locked up everyone who was genuinely crazy, there wouldn't be room to house them, nor staff to watch over them.

 

[1srelluc]

I still believe such an authority would be heavily abused.

There are millions of bonefide crazy people in the country that never have and never will cause any harm to anyone.

If we locked up everyone who was genuinely crazy, there wouldn't be room to house them, nor staff to watch over them.

That's always been the case for those deranged that pose no danger to themselves or the public. They are treated in their communities but were damn sure not allowed to live on the street.

Those that pose a danger, or even a menace to our society (like those nut-jobs shitting in the street) should be locked-away from the public till they get straightened-out. Redirect money and build the facilities/hire the staff necessary.

I'll tell you something else.....If the facilities are available you will soon find out that there are fewer crazies acting out....I've seen folks that acted a bit "off-kilter" suddenly "fly right" when faced with being institutionalized......The mere threat of being sent to our Western State Mental Institution would do that.

 

[JoeB131]

More good guys with guns is the answer.

Well, no, because even you admit....

The security guard was at a great disadvantage because the shooter had the element of surprise.

And that's the problem with the "Good guy" with a gun theory. The bad guy with the gun has a plan, he has the element of surprise, and he's usually going to pull off what he is doing before anyone figures out what is going on.

Columbine and Stoneman had resource officers. They still didn't act in time.
VA Tech had a campus police force.
Ft. Hood was a military base

 

[Oddball]

In August of 2019, New York’s “red flag” law went into effect. The law allows a court to issue an Extreme Risk Protection Order (“ERPO”). An ERPO prevents those who show signs of being a risk to themselves or others from purchasing or possessing a firearm....... NY's ‘Red Flag’ Law: Extreme Risk Protection Orders to Remove Guns

I do not approve of Red Flag laws on general principle and the Buffalo shooter is just another reason why. They simply don't work as intended....They seem more tailored towards the "me too" movement than anything else.

NY's much ballyhooed "Extreme Rick Protection Order" (ERPO) "Red Flag Law" did shit-all to help prevent the shooting that unfolded yesterday even though NY's state police made contact with the shooter in 2021, almost a year ago.

In June 2021, police in Broome County were called by officials of a local high school who told them Gendron had threatened violence in comments made to fellow students.

“A school official reported that this very troubled young man had made statements indicating that he wanted to do a shooting, either at a graduation ceremony, or sometime after”.

State Police were sent to investigate and Gendron, under a section of state mental health laws, was referred for a mental health evaluation and counseling, the official said.

Gunman, 18, drove more than 3 hours to Buffalo to commit hate crime, officials say

It remains to be seen if a ERPO was ever issued or followed up on....The same can be said of the mental health evaluation and counseling....NY officials have a lot to answer for on this one.....Thing is NY will just double down on stupid with more ineffective laws.

​

They're not meant to work....I fact, they're expected to fail.

Then the gun drabbers can use that failure as evidence that more gun grabbing is called for.

 

[Oddball]

Well, no, because even you admit....

And that's the problem with the "Good guy" with a gun theory. The bad guy with the gun has a plan, he has the element of surprise, and he's usually going to pull off what he is doing before anyone figures out what is going on.

So the good guy with the gun, who the malevolent shooter didn't count on, doesn't have an element of surprise?....Really?

Columbine and Stoneman had resource officers. They still didn't act in time.

The Stoneman resource officer ran and hid like a craven coward.

VA Tech had a campus police force.

When seconds count, the cops are minutes away.

Ft. Hood was a military base

And none of those killed were armed.


Do you ever put so much as a moment's worth of analytical thought into your brain droppings?

 

[1srelluc]

Well, no, because even you admit....

And that's the problem with the "Good guy" with a gun theory. The bad guy with the gun has a plan, he has the element of surprise, and he's usually going to pull off what he is doing before anyone figures out what is going on.

Columbine and Stoneman had resource officers. They still didn't act in time.
VA Tech had a campus police force.
Ft. Hood was a military base

Then there are the incidents you hardly hear about when the good guy "wins", taking out a perp before he causes more damage.

There was a incident some years ago here in Virginia when a guy started shooting during a attempted robbery at a Sheetz.

Good guy (retired Madison Co. Deputy) was there getting coffee and put one well-placed .357 round from a 2.50" S&W Model 19 in the perp's "boiler room" from the side just below his armpit while still standing in the coffee making area. I've been to that Sheetz several times when taking my mom to UVA and think about it when I get my coffee....He had the perfect angle.

The good thing was, other than the dead perp, that nobody else got hurt.

 

[Wild Bill Kelsoe]

Well, no, because even you admit....

And that's the problem with the "Good guy" with a gun theory. The bad guy with the gun has a plan, he has the element of surprise, and he's usually going to pull off what he is doing before anyone figures out what is going on.

Columbine and Stoneman had resource officers. They still didn't act in time.
VA Tech had a campus police force.
Ft. Hood was a military base

Right, there weren't enough good guys with guns.

The stoneman officer didn't act at all.

When seconds count, campus police are minutes away. Same thing with the post MPs.

 

[JoeB131]

So the good guy with the gun, who the malevolent shooter didn't count on, doesn't have an element of surprise?....Really?

Not really. It's why it never happens.

The Stoneman resource officer ran and hid like a craven coward.

Actually, he followed procedure.

When seconds count, the cops are minutes away.

Yes, they are. It's why we should make it VERY DIFFICULT for the bad guys to get guns.

And none of those killed were armed.

But Major Crazypants was. A guy who gave MONTHS of indications he was losing his shit, and he was able to get a gun anyway.

Do you ever put so much as a moment's worth of analytical thought into your brain droppings?

I give this a lot of thought.

You gun nuts live in this fantasy world were you all play Batman, but the reality is, you almost never stop mass shooters.

 

[JoeB131]

Then there are the incidents you hardly hear about when the good guy "wins", taking out a perp before he causes more damage.

There was a incident some years ago here in Virginia when a guy started shooting during a attempted robbery at a Sheetz.

Good guy (retired Madison Co. Deputy) was there getting coffee and put one well-placed .357 round from a 2.50" S&W Model 19 in the perp's "boiler room" from the side just below his armpit while still standing in the coffee making area. I've been to that Sheetz several times when taking my mom to UVA and think about it when I get my coffee....He had the perfect angle.

The good thing was, other than the dead perp, that nobody else got hurt.

Key point- he was a trained law enforcement officer - a member of a "Well-Regulated Militia". That was the intent of the Second, not to have every nut have a gun.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

I do not approve of Red Flag laws on general principle

 

[Harpy Eagle]

So the good guy with the gun, who the malevolent shooter didn't count on, doesn't have an element of surprise?....Really?

There was a good guy with a gun at the store, he is now dead as the malevolent shooter counted on him and wore body armor.

 

[yidnar]

The thing is sih these killers. Evey time it happens their background comes out and people go WTF. Trying to stop them getting guns should be stepped up rather than abandoned. take on more staff and tax the gun makers.

You could also spend more money on mental health and try and sort out the crazies at source.

White supremacy is a disease that is killing people.

white supremacy ? mass shooters come in all shapes sizes and ideologies .... one thing they all have in common is they are either crazy or evil or a combination of both ! stop claiming white supremacy is a big thing in the US when you live in a country that actually has a WHITE QUEEN !

 

[Stann]

In August of 2019, New York’s “red flag” law went into effect. The law allows a court to issue an Extreme Risk Protection Order (“ERPO”). An ERPO prevents those who show signs of being a risk to themselves or others from purchasing or possessing a firearm....... NY's ‘Red Flag’ Law: Extreme Risk Protection Orders to Remove Guns

I do not approve of Red Flag laws on general principle and the Buffalo shooter is just another reason why. They simply don't work as intended....They seem more tailored towards the "me too" movement than anything else.

NY's much ballyhooed "Extreme Rick Protection Order" (ERPO) "Red Flag Law" did shit-all to help prevent the shooting that unfolded yesterday even though NY's state police made contact with the shooter in 2021, almost a year ago.

In June 2021, police in Broome County were called by officials of a local high school who told them Gendron had threatened violence in comments made to fellow students.

“A school official reported that this very troubled young man had made statements indicating that he wanted to do a shooting, either at a graduation ceremony, or sometime after”.

State Police were sent to investigate and Gendron, under a section of state mental health laws, was referred for a mental health evaluation and counseling, the official said.

Gunman, 18, drove more than 3 hours to Buffalo to commit hate crime, officials say

It remains to be seen if a ERPO was ever issued or followed up on....The same can be said of the mental health evaluation and counseling....NY officials have a lot to answer for on this one.....Thing is NY will just double down on stupid with more ineffective laws.

​

These laws need to be on the federal level, anyone talking hate speech should not be allowed to buy weapons and definitely not be allowed to buy body armor cuz then you know what they're only intent is. That's a" " DEAD " giveaway.

 

[Stann]

There was a good guy with a gun at the store, he is now dead as the malevolent shooter counted on him and wore body armor.

And that creep should have never been able to buy body armor, his whole history was a red flag.

 

[Pellinore]

white supremacy ? mass shooters come in all shapes sizes and ideologies .... one thing they all have in common is they are either crazy or evil or a combination of both

Most of the ones that are outright evil seem to be white supremacists. Eric Harris from Columbine was a true-blue psychopath, but otherwise there sure are a lot of shot-up synagogues and Black church prayer meetings and Latino area Wal-Marts. Histories of domestic abuse show up an awful lot, too.

And there's the mental health. Unfortunately, the way we find out that many of their mental health issues manifest violently is when they open fire. When they do go over that edge, they could use a bomb or a car or a claw hammer or something, but even the most die-hard NRA recruiter has to admit that nothing is as easy and effective as a gun. That's why they're around at all.

The US is filthy rich and full of smart people. I refuse to believe that if we stopped bitching back and forth about it and got down to business, we could come up with a system by which an 18-year-old walking danger sign who has been threatening a mass killing for years is denied a firearm, but the 99% of law-abiders don't get stripped of their rights.