Why Did Roosevelt Extend WWII By 2 Years??

[Steven_R]

And the same applied to Stalin's view of Japan, a potential impediment to the East. After meeting with Stalin in Moscow on May 28, 1945, Harry Hopkins told Truman that Stalin "prefers to go through with unconditional surrender" regarding Japan. "However, he feels that if we stick to unconditional surrender the Japs will not give up and we will have to destroy them as we did Germany."
Sherwood, "Hopkins," volume 2, 892-893.

That date was smack dab in the middle of the Battle of Okinawa. The Japanese inflicted 50,000 allied causalities in that battle alone, and fought almost to the last man. The previous battle was Iwo Jima where the Japs inflicted 25,000 Us casualties and did fight to the last man. There was no indication the Japanese were going discuss any surrender and were instead arming the civilian population to fight to the last man, woman, and child. Some of the military tried to throw a coup when the Emperor announced his decision on August 10 to end the war.

You don't think that maybe fighting that kind of enemy might have been a factor in Truman's decision making process?

 

[LA RAM FAN]

better question is why you have such an obsession over FDR.

 

[rightwinger]

Now, I know that you are so old that you hesitate to buy green bananas.....but, try to relax....

I said I'd prove the premise....but not in bumper-stickers.
I document, and link.....

OK...your next lesson is here:

6. The OP provides an indication of the ability, the motive, and the malevolence of Soviet machinations, as does the post revealing the KGB plan to set Japan and the United States at each other's throats.


Earlier I said not to forget this, as it is most significant:
" Harry Dexter White had been a Soviet "asset" since the early 1930s, providing information to Whittaker Chambers, a courier for the communist underground. By 1941 White was a top aide and adviser to Henry Morgenthau, Jr., Secretary of the Treasury."

This was Stalin's leverage to extend WWII.
White had Morganthau agree to Stalin's plan for Germany.

Stalin and his spies in the Roosevelt administration insisted....demanded!.....that Germany not be allowed to surrender. It had to be obliterated....

....even though this meant extending the war and dramatically increasing Allies casualties.





Soviet agents engineered the Morgenthau Plan.

7. Morganthau Plan: "The Morgenthau Plan, first proposed by United States Secretary of the Treasury Henry Morgenthau, Jr. in a memorandum entitled Suggested Post-Surrender Program for Germany, advocated that the Allied occupation of Germany following World War II include measures to eliminate Germany's ability to wage war by eliminating its armament industry, and the removal or destruction of other key industries basic to military strength. This included the removal or destruction of all industrial plants and equipment in the Ruhr area. "
Morgenthau Plan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


a. " Morgenthau, Henry (1944). "Suggested Post-Surrender Program for Germany [The original memorandum from 1944, signed by Morgenthau] (text and facsimile)".
Box 31, Folder Germany: Jan.-Sept. 1944 (i297). Franklin D. Roosevelt Presidential Library and Museum (published 27 May 2004).
Archived from the original on 12 November 2013.
"Demilitarization of Germany: It should be the aim of the Allied Forces to accomplish the complete demilitarization of Germany in the shortest possible period of time after surrender. This means completely disarming the German Army and people (including the removal or destruction of all war material), the total destruction of the whole German armament industry, and the removal or destruction of other key industries which are basic to military strength."






8. Now note the testimony by converted Soviet spy, Elizabeth Bentley, who revealed Stalin's plans for Germany:
Elizabeth Bentley, a former operative of the Soviet underground testified before the Senate subcommittee on August 14, 1951, naming some 80 Soviet spies. Her testimony was summarized in an FBI report, dated November 25, 1945.

Glimpse the methods and purpose of the Soviet operation:

Miss Bentley testified as follows about the Morgenthau plan, Stalin's plans for Germany:
Senator Eastland: "Did you know who drew that plan?"
Miss Bentley: "Due to Mr. [Harry Dexter] White's influence, to push the devastation of Germany, because that was what the Russians wanted."
Senator Ferguson: "That was what the Communists wanted?"

Miss Bentley: "Definitely Moscow wanted them completely razed because then they would be of no help to the allies."
Senator Eastland: "What you say is that it was a Communist plot to destroy Germany and weaken her to where she could not help us?"

Miss Bentley: "That is correct. She could no longer be a barrier to protect the western world." Manly, 'The Twenty Year Revolution,' p.102-103



Again: ""Due to Mr. [Harry Dexter] White's influence, to push the devastation of Germany, because that was what the Russians wanted."




For Stalin, Communism's post-war march across Europe could be stymied by a Germany with any military potential. What better way to obviate same than by using the Allies to obliterate....not merely accept the surrender.....but obliterate his most fearsome enemy.



The only question is why Roosevelt agreed to it....and the extension of the war by several years....

LOL

Does nothing to prove the assertion of your own thread that the war could have ended two years earlier

Why don't you cut and paste some more rightwing revisionist propaganda?

Now....stay with this.....and have that pair of cardiac paddles handy....

...I'd hate to lose you just as I reach the denouement!!

You have yet to produce any evidence that FDR could have ended the war two years earlier

Why am I not surprised?

 

[PoliticalChic]

And the same applied to Stalin's view of Japan, a potential impediment to the East. After meeting with Stalin in Moscow on May 28, 1945, Harry Hopkins told Truman that Stalin "prefers to go through with unconditional surrender" regarding Japan. "However, he feels that if we stick to unconditional surrender the Japs will not give up and we will have to destroy them as we did Germany."
Sherwood, "Hopkins," volume 2, 892-893.

That date was smack dab in the middle of the Battle of Okinawa. The Japanese inflicted 50,000 allied causalities in that battle alone, and fought almost to the last man. The previous battle was Iwo Jima where the Japs inflicted 25,000 Us casualties and did fight to the last man. There was no indication the Japanese were going discuss any surrender and were instead arming the civilian population to fight to the last man, woman, and child. Some of the military tried to throw a coup when the Emperor announced his decision on August 10 to end the war.

You don't think that maybe fighting that kind of enemy might have been a factor in Truman's decision making process?

1. Did you realize that you post has nothing to do with the conversation in question....between Hopkins and Stalin???


2. Did you miss the significance of Stalin's demanding the same 'unconditional surrender' of both Japan and Germany?


3. Where did you find any mention of "Truman's decision" in the part of my post that you included?

 

[PoliticalChic]

better question is why you have such an obsession over FDR.

Why do you have such an aversion to learning?

 

[PoliticalChic]

LOL

Does nothing to prove the assertion of your own thread that the war could have ended two years earlier

Why don't you cut and paste some more rightwing revisionist propaganda?

Now....stay with this.....and have that pair of cardiac paddles handy....

...I'd hate to lose you just as I reach the denouement!!

You have yet to produce any evidence that FDR could have ended the war two years earlier

Why am I not surprised?

This is the third time I've asked you to relax.




Just you wait.

 

[Steven_R]

And the same applied to Stalin's view of Japan, a potential impediment to the East. After meeting with Stalin in Moscow on May 28, 1945, Harry Hopkins told Truman that Stalin "prefers to go through with unconditional surrender" regarding Japan. "However, he feels that if we stick to unconditional surrender the Japs will not give up and we will have to destroy them as we did Germany."
Sherwood, "Hopkins," volume 2, 892-893.

That date was smack dab in the middle of the Battle of Okinawa. The Japanese inflicted 50,000 allied causalities in that battle alone, and fought almost to the last man. The previous battle was Iwo Jima where the Japs inflicted 25,000 Us casualties and did fight to the last man. There was no indication the Japanese were going discuss any surrender and were instead arming the civilian population to fight to the last man, woman, and child. Some of the military tried to throw a coup when the Emperor announced his decision on August 10 to end the war.

You don't think that maybe fighting that kind of enemy might have been a factor in Truman's decision making process?

1. Did you realize that you post has nothing to do with the conversation in question....between Hopkins and Stalin???


2. Did you miss the significance of Stalin's demanding the same 'unconditional surrender' of both Japan and Germany?


3. Where did you find any mention of "Truman's decision" in the part of my post that you included?

Since Hopkins didn't have the authority to demand anything from Truman, and since the buck did stop on HST's desk, it was Truman's decision.

Nevermind all of that. Do you really think FDR or Truman or anyone else was going to ell the American people on the idea of a negotiated truce with Japan? Remember Pearl Harbor and a sneak attack and the Bataan Death March and Wake Island and all the blood spilt on places Americans never heard of before the war cutting off the heads of downed pilots and the Rape of Nanking and Unit 731 and a million other atrocities? If anyone in DC even thought about publically getting a negotiated peace, he'd have a real revolt on his hands of just ordinary Americans who wouldn't have heard of anything more than Japan's unconditional surrender.

 

[JakeStarkey]

LOL

Does nothing to prove the assertion of your own thread that the war could have ended two years earlier

Why don't you cut and paste some more rightwing revisionist propaganda?

PC was a cut and paste princess in primary school.

She does not get that Premise requires objective evidence that can develop into a convincing emphasis of its important in the conclusion. If the KGB was plotting nefarious schemes to put Japan and the USA at war, she has to provide causality not coincidence. She has done nothing of the sort.

She was taught journalism not logic and not argumentation.

 

[JakeStarkey]

That date was smack dab in the middle of the Battle of Okinawa. The Japanese inflicted 50,000 allied causalities in that battle alone, and fought almost to the last man. The previous battle was Iwo Jima where the Japs inflicted 25,000 Us casualties and did fight to the last man. There was no indication the Japanese were going discuss any surrender and were instead arming the civilian population to fight to the last man, woman, and child. Some of the military tried to throw a coup when the Emperor announced his decision on August 10 to end the war.

You don't think that maybe fighting that kind of enemy might have been a factor in Truman's decision making process?

1. Did you realize that you post has nothing to do with the conversation in question....between Hopkins and Stalin???


2. Did you miss the significance of Stalin's demanding the same 'unconditional surrender' of both Japan and Germany?


3. Where did you find any mention of "Truman's decision" in the part of my post that you included?

Since Hopkins didn't have the authority to demand anything from Truman, and since the buck did stop on HST's desk, it was Truman's decision.

Nevermind all of that. Do you really think FDR or Truman or anyone else was going to ell the American people on the idea of a negotiated truce with Japan? Remember Pearl Harbor and a sneak attack and the Bataan Death March and Wake Island and all the blood spilt on places Americans never heard of before the war cutting off the heads of downed pilots and the Rape of Nanking and Unit 731 and a million other atrocities? If anyone in DC even thought about publically getting a negotiated peace, he'd have a real revolt on his hands of just ordinary Americans who wouldn't have heard of anything more than Japan's unconditional surrender.

Why argue with her, really.

PC twists evidence to fit the preconceived thesis rather than develop and build the point in context and nuance.

She has never been able to do that on the Board.

She is every bit a totalitarian reactionary as Mussolini was a fascist, Hitler a Nazi, and Stalin a commie. What is not is a classical liberal steeped in republican constitutionalism.

 

[PoliticalChic]

That date was smack dab in the middle of the Battle of Okinawa. The Japanese inflicted 50,000 allied causalities in that battle alone, and fought almost to the last man. The previous battle was Iwo Jima where the Japs inflicted 25,000 Us casualties and did fight to the last man. There was no indication the Japanese were going discuss any surrender and were instead arming the civilian population to fight to the last man, woman, and child. Some of the military tried to throw a coup when the Emperor announced his decision on August 10 to end the war.

You don't think that maybe fighting that kind of enemy might have been a factor in Truman's decision making process?

1. Did you realize that you post has nothing to do with the conversation in question....between Hopkins and Stalin???


2. Did you miss the significance of Stalin's demanding the same 'unconditional surrender' of both Japan and Germany?


3. Where did you find any mention of "Truman's decision" in the part of my post that you included?

Since Hopkins didn't have the authority to demand anything from Truman, and since the buck did stop on HST's desk, it was Truman's decision.

Nevermind all of that. Do you really think FDR or Truman or anyone else was going to ell the American people on the idea of a negotiated truce with Japan? Remember Pearl Harbor and a sneak attack and the Bataan Death March and Wake Island and all the blood spilt on places Americans never heard of before the war cutting off the heads of downed pilots and the Rape of Nanking and Unit 731 and a million other atrocities? If anyone in DC even thought about publically getting a negotiated peace, he'd have a real revolt on his hands of just ordinary Americans who wouldn't have heard of anything more than Japan's unconditional surrender.

"...Hopkins didn't have the authority to demand anything from Truman,...."

And you are quoting......yourself?

Since you continue to suggest things not in evidence, one must be puzzled by either your ability or your motives.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Yes, "Since you continue to suggest things not in evidence, one must be puzzled by either your ability or your motives" is exactly why we are puzzled by your comments, PC.

 

[PoliticalChic]

1. Did you realize that you post has nothing to do with the conversation in question....between Hopkins and Stalin???


2. Did you miss the significance of Stalin's demanding the same 'unconditional surrender' of both Japan and Germany?


3. Where did you find any mention of "Truman's decision" in the part of my post that you included?

Since Hopkins didn't have the authority to demand anything from Truman, and since the buck did stop on HST's desk, it was Truman's decision.

Nevermind all of that. Do you really think FDR or Truman or anyone else was going to ell the American people on the idea of a negotiated truce with Japan? Remember Pearl Harbor and a sneak attack and the Bataan Death March and Wake Island and all the blood spilt on places Americans never heard of before the war cutting off the heads of downed pilots and the Rape of Nanking and Unit 731 and a million other atrocities? If anyone in DC even thought about publically getting a negotiated peace, he'd have a real revolt on his hands of just ordinary Americans who wouldn't have heard of anything more than Japan's unconditional surrender.

Why argue with her, really.

PC twists evidence to fit the preconceived thesis rather than develop and build the point in context and nuance.

She has never been able to do that on the Board.

She is every bit a totalitarian reactionary as Mussolini was a fascist, Hitler a Nazi, and Stalin a commie. What is not is a classical liberal steeped in republican constitutionalism.

What....still no reference to anything I've posted?


What is behind these vapid posts of yours?

Some failed attempt to appear ....relevant?.....knowledgeable?

You are to serious posters what the Washington Generals are to the Harlem Globetrotters.
The eternal loser.







Get lost you little fool.

 

[PoliticalChic]

9. So....in Washington, Stalin's spy Harry Dexter White pushed the Morganthau plan....but on the military fronts he did something else to prevent the war's end.

Stalin refused to allow the Allies to communicate with the anti-Nazi resistance in Germany, for fear that support of the resistance might lead to the overthrow of Hitler, and Germany's surrender.

Post-war, an able Germany would stand in his way to the spread of the communist empire eastward, all across Europe.





10. Of course, this was no problem for FDR.....
Roosevelt actually intended for the Red Army to occupy central and eastern Europe....he said this even before the Red Army left Russia!

a. We know for a documented fact that Roosevelt regarded Soviet conquest in Europe as a fait accompli.



On September 3, 1943, Cardinal Spellman spent 90 minutes with Roosevelt, and wrote up a memorandum in which he quoted Roosevelt as saying exactly that!
Spellman quoted FDR: "The European people will simply have to endure the Russian domination in the hope that in ten or twenty years they will be able to live well with the Russians."
"The Cardinal Spellman Story," by Robert I. Gannon, p.224





11. Harry Hopkins and George Marshall were fully behind handing all of Eastern Europe over to Stalin's tender mercies. Remember...they knew of the Terror Famine, the Katyn Forest Massacre, and other blood purges. by Stalin. Evidence can be seen in a document which Hopkins took with him to the Quebec conference in August, 1943, entitled "Russia's Position," quoted as follows in Sherwood's book, the authorized Hopkins biography: "Russia's post-war position in Europe will be a dominant one. With Germany crushed, there is no power in Europe to oppose her tremendous military forces."



More to come....but let's review:

a. The anti-Nazi resistance in Germany was neither supported nor recognized by Washington.
b. Roosevelt meant all along to cede half of Europe to Stalin
c. Stalin wanted Germany totally eliminated from resisting his occupation after the war.
d. Stalin planned Mao's communist China...and, therefore, needed Japan destroyed as well.



Anyone care to deny those facts?

 

[JakeStarkey]

None of PC's evidence supports the thesis and actual history rebukes it.

 

[Camp]

None of PC's evidence supports the thesis and actual history rebukes it.

PC keeps trying over and over to make her conspiracy theory stick or be taken seriously and keeps getting the same results of rejection and failure over and over. Didn't Mr. Einstein have something to say about that?

 

[rightwinger]

None of PC's evidence supports the thesis and actual history rebukes it.

PC keeps trying over and over to make her conspiracy theory stick or be taken seriously and keeps getting the same results of rejection and failure over and over. Didn't Mr. Einstein have something to say about that?

This level of academic scholarship got PC a degree from Columbia. Shotgunning unrelated cut and paste is what passes for scholarship

 

[PoliticalChic]

None of PC's evidence supports the thesis and actual history rebukes it.

PC keeps trying over and over to make her conspiracy theory stick or be taken seriously and keeps getting the same results of rejection and failure over and over. Didn't Mr. Einstein have something to say about that?

This level of academic scholarship got PC a degree from Columbia. Shotgunning unrelated cut and paste is what passes for scholarship

"This level of academic scholarship...."

Lucky you! No one would ever expect scholarship of any variety from you.


Of course, your posts and the rest of the truth-resisters are of the variety "is not, is not," while mine are linked, and documented....

...and there is more.



12. Logic of every variety dictates that an invading army would make contact with, support, and use, indigenous forces having the same objectives.

True?

Of course true. Yet, subservient to Stalin's wishes....or demands.....the Allies refused any contact with German anti-Nazi resistance forces....even higher ups who would have been amicable to surrender.




What was the effect of Stalin's demand that no surrender by Germany be allowed?

First, the Allied command was not allowed to support or associate itself with the anti-Nazi resistance. Following the Soviet orders, only unconditional surrender would be considered....an order which prolonged the war by as much as a year: the army which would have overthrown Hitler and surrendered to the Allies would not be allowed to expect any hand in determining conditions of their post-war treatment.



a. "A SHAEF (Supreme Headquarters, Allied Expeditionary Force) directive prohibited activities aimed at promoting German revolt against the Nazi regime.
The Allied doctrine of unconditional surrender meant that "... those Germans — and particularly those German generals — who might have been ready to throw Hitler over, and were able to do so, were discouraged from making the attempt by their inability to extract from the Allies any sort of assurance that such action would improve the treatment meted out to their country." German Resistance to Nazism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia





13. On May 10, 1945, shortly after the unconditional surrender of Nazi Germany, General Dwight Eisenhower saluted and gave credit to Europe's resistance forces. He mentioned them by name, as follows: France, Belgium, the Netherlands, Denmark and Norway. 'You fought on,' he said in a speech carried by the BBC, "regardless of the disappointments you suffered and the danger you have undergone."
NYTimes, May 11, 1945, "Eisenhower Praises Anti-Nazi Resistance."



a. Who is missing from Eisenhower's list of national anti-Nazi resistance?

That's right: German anti-Nazis, of whom thousands were executed by the Reich.
"The History of the German Resistance, 1933-1945, Third Edition," by Peter Hoffman



Think it was an oversight on his part.....or was he just following orders?

Now...who could possibly give Supreme Commander orders?


Who?



More tomorrow....biting your nails?

 

[regent]

None of PC's evidence supports the thesis and actual history rebukes it.

PC keeps trying over and over to make her conspiracy theory stick or be taken seriously and keeps getting the same results of rejection and failure over and over. Didn't Mr. Einstein have something to say about that?

This level of academic scholarship got PC a degree from Columbia. Shotgunning unrelated cut and paste is what passes for scholarship

It seems as if PC has taken some events from history and tried to make them into some sort of conspiracy engineered by FDR.
For example, Admiral Halsey promised to ride Hirohito's horse when Japan surrendered and Halsey did not, so that could become some sort of conspiracy between Stalin, FDR and Halsey.

 

[PoliticalChic]

The literate on the board may have read a famous anti-war novel, "All Quiet On The Western Front," by Erich Maria Remarque....

He was one of the anti-Nazi Germans....but not in Germany, he left for America.
His sister remained.


"On this date (December 16th) in 1943, pacifist novelist Erich Maria Remarque lost his youngest sister to the Nazi regime — beheaded because her “brother is beyond our reach.”

Actually, Elfriede Scholz was convicted (upon the denunciation of her landlady a few weeks before) by the kangaroo People’s Court for undermining the war effort. (“Wehrkraftzersetzung” — German has a word for everything.)

Like her brother, Elfriede was a staunch opponent of the Nazi government, and in 1943 that could certainly have sufficed to get her a one-way trip to Plotzensee Prison."
ExecutedToday.com » 1943: Elfriede Scholz, Erich Maria Remarque?s sister


These are the kinds of Germans that Joseph Stalin would not allow the Allies to aid...or even communicate with.

 

[Steven_R]

DC and London didn't want Hitler removed from power because Hitler was an idiot. Put someone like Rommel in charge and maybe the Allies lose the war.

Marshall didn't want to go to war with the Soviets because he knew we would lose and lose badly. By the end of 1945 our economy was already on the ropes, our manufacturing capabilities were maxed out, and our troops were exhausted. Soviet equipment, especially in tanks, was superior to ours in some regards and equal to ours in others. Even in the logistics end of the equation, the Soviets were rapidly approaching the same level the US had, which was showing signs of cracking by the fall of Germany. Add into that a US population already tired of the war.

But it's all some commie plot with Marshall at the middle of it.