Why Can't Poor People Afford Healthy Food?

[eflatminor]

People expect poor people to just buy a head of lettuce and eat it? who does that?

Not only that, but when is the last time you saw a head of lettuce for 59cents? I haven't seen them for less than a dollar in years.

Good point, plus lettuce isn't really meant to just be eaten alone, its supposed to be used for salads and sandwiches and such. I find it laughable people expect poor people to go to grocery stores and just eat a tomato or a head of lettuce by itself.

When I was a young man, I finished school with enough money saved to buy an open ended round trip flight from NY to London. I took the next several years and traveled around the world with a backpack. Had NO money, but instead worked my way through Europe, Africa and the Middle East, cooking at a youth hostel for food and a bed, picking grapes during the season, busking in the streets, or odd jobs here and there.

I absolutely lived off of that which I bought from a grocery store. Many meals consisted of a loaf of bread, marmalade jam (or Nutella), and some sort of raw vegetable. These were usually enjoyed in an alleyway, cemetery, or public park. When I got back to America, I ended up homeless for a few months until such time as I was able to land a good job.

15 years later, I was working at a Fortune 100, among the top 1% of wage earners, which I understand makes me evil...

Point is, I managed to feed myself with no assistance from any government or charity. And I'm nothing special. Nobody deserves other people's money because they prefer to not eat simply.

 

[Againsheila]

Works great, if the family has a roof over their heads, and a refrigerator and stove at their convenience. So, did you work in how much it costs to cook it? Including the pans they have to have to cook it with? <yeah, I know they are reusable, but they still have to have them and a place to store them>

For Christ's sake are you actually telling me that people are forced to eat at McDunghole's for want of a pot?

No, I'm saying the price in inaccurate as it doesn't take into account the whole price of the homecooked meal.

And yes, some people don't have that pot, or the fire to cook the food over.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Works great, if the family has a roof over their heads, and a refrigerator and stove at their convenience. So, did you work in how much it costs to cook it? Including the pans they have to have to cook it with? <yeah, I know they are reusable, but they still have to have them and a place to store them>

For Christ's sake are you actually telling me that people are forced to eat at McDunghole's for want of a pot?

No, I'm saying the price in inaccurate as it doesn't take into account the whole price of the homecooked meal.

And yes, some people don't have that pot, or the fire to cook the food over.

Ok If you spend 20 bucks on a pot and you can cook 1000 meals in it then you can add 2cents to the cost of the meals in my example if you can cook more than 1000 meals decrease the extra cost accordingly.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Nonsense, they are just too lazy to put in the effort. A bag of flour and some yeast will bake a number of loaves of bread for about 50cents a loaf. Of course it takes a couple hrs to make some up and that's a lot of missed tv time.

Perhaps it's time for school classes to once again teach people how to shop efficiently and put in a little effort to prepare a meal.

How much does that bread maker cost?

A one time investment of maybe $50 and one can make bread for years.
Think of the savings!
Mrs Spoon bought a bread maker at a yard sale about 5-7 years ago for $15. Let me tell you..That bread is GOOD!

I just had a lunch that included fresh, hot from the oven, homemade bread. No bread maker and no, it doesn't take 'a couple of hours away from the TC set'. Real time of slaving over a hot bread board is maybe a half hour. The rest of the time, the bread can take care of itself - you don't have to stand there.

You don't realize how bad factory-made bread is until you get into the habit of eating the real thing.

There really is a reason why bread used to be known as the "staff of life".

 

[longknife]

Because its too expensive.

Do you know that it is cheaper to buy a jumbo bag of potato chips and a 2 litre bottle of coke than it is to buy a loaf of bread and a bottle of water?

Ever got those catalogues in the mail with the latest specials from your local supermarket? How many times do you see soft drinks, chocolate, chips and cakes discounted, sometimes by up to 50%? Compare that to how many times you see a price reduction on healthy foods, like apples, oranges, bananas, and bottled water.

In KFC the other day, it was cheaper for me to buy a burger, a piece of chicken, three wings, a small popcorn chicken, a regular chips, a regular gravy and a can of Pepsi than it was to buy a salad and a bottle of water. I wanted a salad and a water, but when I compared the prices, I wondered why I should spend more money on a healthy item when I can get the unhealthy food a lot cheaper?

How many other families see this problem? How about no discounts on junk food, and discounts only on healthy foods?


I never used to understand why people claimed they couldn't afford healthy foods, but I understand now, because its true.

You can't possibly mean that! Moochelle is doing everything she can to shut down every fast food outlet in North America. What will they eat when that happens? Dog and/or cat food like elderly people trying to get by on their measly SSN check?

 

[koshergrl]

Works great, if the family has a roof over their heads, and a refrigerator and stove at their convenience. So, did you work in how much it costs to cook it? Including the pans they have to have to cook it with? <yeah, I know they are reusable, but they still have to have them and a place to store them>

For Christ's sake are you actually telling me that people are forced to eat at McDunghole's for want of a pot?

No, I'm saying the price in inaccurate as it doesn't take into account the whole price of the homecooked meal.

And yes, some people don't have that pot, or the fire to cook the food over.

I'm telling you your take on it is not realistic.

It is NEVER financially sound to feed your family at mcD's if you have a limited budget.

Never.

And if you're going to start counting the electricity and all that bullshit, then you need to count the cost of gas to get to McD's, or the cost of shoes and a shirt and pants so you and your family (whoops multiply those costs x 4) don't get kicked out before you're served.

While it's certainly understandable that people are willing to make the trade off in order to accomodate a lack of time...it's ridiculous to say, with a straight face, that eating at McDonald's is just as fiscally sound as fixing your own.

BTW, I can get a loaf of bread, a pound of bologna, and a bottle of mustard for under 5 dollars and feed my family of 6....still more filling and less expensive than feeding us a comparable meal (2 sammiches each) at McD's. I might even have enough for a half gallon of milk....$1.99....a head of lettuce or a couple of apples....$1....better food, less expensive, and probably have leftovers. And the store shares the same parking lot with McD's.

Guess how much a cup of milk is at McD's? $1.99.

 

[koshergrl]

How much does that bread maker cost?

A one time investment of maybe $50 and one can make bread for years.
Think of the savings!
Mrs Spoon bought a bread maker at a yard sale about 5-7 years ago for $15. Let me tell you..That bread is GOOD!

I just had a lunch that included fresh, hot from the oven, homemade bread. No bread maker and no, it doesn't take 'a couple of hours away from the TC set'. Real time of slaving over a hot bread board is maybe a half hour. The rest of the time, the bread can take care of itself - you don't have to stand there.

You don't realize how bad factory-made bread is until you get into the habit of eating the real thing.

There really is a reason why bread used to be known as the "staff of life".

Exactly. I spend maybe a total of 15 minutes actually working bread/mixing it/putting it in the pans...

No preservatives though, so it will mold quicker...so in the event my homemade bread makes it past day 2, we have homemade bread french toast.

OMG it is beyond heavenly.

I can even make my own syrup if I'm out...sugar, water, a little vanilla or maple flavoring.

Bazinga.

 

[Againsheila]

How much does that bread maker cost?

A one time investment of maybe $50 and one can make bread for years.
Think of the savings!
Mrs Spoon bought a bread maker at a yard sale about 5-7 years ago for $15. Let me tell you..That bread is GOOD!

I just had a lunch that included fresh, hot from the oven, homemade bread. No bread maker and no, it doesn't take 'a couple of hours away from the TC set'. Real time of slaving over a hot bread board is maybe a half hour. The rest of the time, the bread can take care of itself - you don't have to stand there.

You don't realize how bad factory-made bread is until you get into the habit of eating the real thing.

There really is a reason why bread used to be known as the "staff of life".

I love homemade bread and it is pennies compared to the cost of buying bread.

 

[Againsheila]

A one time investment of maybe $50 and one can make bread for years.
Think of the savings!
Mrs Spoon bought a bread maker at a yard sale about 5-7 years ago for $15. Let me tell you..That bread is GOOD!

I just had a lunch that included fresh, hot from the oven, homemade bread. No bread maker and no, it doesn't take 'a couple of hours away from the TC set'. Real time of slaving over a hot bread board is maybe a half hour. The rest of the time, the bread can take care of itself - you don't have to stand there.

You don't realize how bad factory-made bread is until you get into the habit of eating the real thing.

There really is a reason why bread used to be known as the "staff of life".

Exactly. I spend maybe a total of 15 minutes actually working bread/mixing it/putting it in the pans...

No preservatives though, so it will mold quicker...so in the event my homemade bread makes it past day 2, we have homemade bread french toast.

OMG it is beyond heavenly.

I can even make my own syrup if I'm out...sugar, water, a little vanilla or maple flavoring.

Bazinga.

Or just use powdered sugar or jam.

 

[Againsheila]

For Christ's sake are you actually telling me that people are forced to eat at McDunghole's for want of a pot?

No, I'm saying the price in inaccurate as it doesn't take into account the whole price of the homecooked meal.

And yes, some people don't have that pot, or the fire to cook the food over.

I'm telling you your take on it is not realistic.

It is NEVER financially sound to feed your family at mcD's if you have a limited budget.

Never.

And if you're going to start counting the electricity and all that bullshit, then you need to count the cost of gas to get to McD's, or the cost of shoes and a shirt and pants so you and your family (whoops multiply those costs x 4) don't get kicked out before you're served.

While it's certainly understandable that people are willing to make the trade off in order to accomodate a lack of time...it's ridiculous to say, with a straight face, that eating at McDonald's is just as fiscally sound as fixing your own.

BTW, I can get a loaf of bread, a pound of bologna, and a bottle of mustard for under 5 dollars and feed my family of four..still more filling and less expensive than feeding us a comparable meal (2 sammiches each) at McD's. I might even have enough for a half gallon of milk....$1.99....

Guess how much a cup of milk is at McD's? $1.99.

I guess I deal mostly with single people who are homeless. We do have some families come into the church but not many and not usually during school when their kids get free breakfasts and lunches at school, mostly during the summer.

McDs is more expensive than cooking at home, I won't deny that. I'm simply pointing out that a lot of the people you are talking about don't have a home to cook in.

 

[koshergrl]

And it's not quite so crucial for a single person as it is for a family with kids to make every single penny work.

And adult can skip meals, no biggie...and a mobile adult who spends $5 a day at mcdonald's can survive, in fairly decent form.

Kids can't eat that way.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Not only that, but when is the last time you saw a head of lettuce for 59cents? I haven't seen them for less than a dollar in years.

Good point, plus lettuce isn't really meant to just be eaten alone, its supposed to be used for salads and sandwiches and such. I find it laughable people expect poor people to go to grocery stores and just eat a tomato or a head of lettuce by itself.

When I was a young man, I finished school with enough money saved to buy an open ended round trip flight from NY to London. I took the next several years and traveled around the world with a backpack. Had NO money, but instead worked my way through Europe, Africa and the Middle East, cooking at a youth hostel for food and a bed, picking grapes during the season, busking in the streets, or odd jobs here and there.

I absolutely lived off of that which I bought from a grocery store. Many meals consisted of a loaf of bread, marmalade jam (or Nutella), and some sort of raw vegetable. These were usually enjoyed in an alleyway, cemetery, or public park. When I got back to America, I ended up homeless for a few months until such time as I was able to land a good job.

15 years later, I was working at a Fortune 100, among the top 1% of wage earners, which I understand makes me evil...

Point is, I managed to feed myself with no assistance from any government or charity. And I'm nothing special. Nobody deserves other people's money because they prefer to not eat simply.

If you mean that most homeless or jobless families or even single people believe that, you're wrong.

In 1968, I decided I wanted to go live in NYC. I landed there with one suitcase, one cardboard box and $50. I landed three good jobs on the first day I went out looking and got to choose the one I thought would be the most interesting. I was able rent a very nice room in a residence on the upper east side (near Jacqui Kennedy's apartment, actually. Better class of rats and cockroaches.) that included two meals a day for $35 a month. Today, I would not be able to rent space in a public bathroom that amount of money.

You simply cannot compare either yours or my experience with what people are facing today. We both got wonderful adventures traveling but times have changed.

As for the lettuce example, some are very nutritious. Iceberg head lettuce is nothing but cellulose and water. And, it tastes bad. Problem is, the good stuff is more costly.

Fact is, the poor could eat very well on a meatless diet and THAT is the most expensive part of any meal. But, people have the mistaken idea that they must eat meat, must feed their kids meat. Little do they know that the McDonald's crap (and other meat) they buy for their kids is setting them up for all kinds of diseases later. And, the people who DO know how bad meat is, lie to themselves about it.

Example - People ingest 7 million pounds of antibiotics every year in the US. We give livestock 29 million pounds ever year. And, we can't understand why we're seeing more and more resistant bacteria.

This is worse for kids because they're getting an entire lifetime of daily doses on antibiotics.

 

[Againsheila]

Good point, plus lettuce isn't really meant to just be eaten alone, its supposed to be used for salads and sandwiches and such. I find it laughable people expect poor people to go to grocery stores and just eat a tomato or a head of lettuce by itself.

When I was a young man, I finished school with enough money saved to buy an open ended round trip flight from NY to London. I took the next several years and traveled around the world with a backpack. Had NO money, but instead worked my way through Europe, Africa and the Middle East, cooking at a youth hostel for food and a bed, picking grapes during the season, busking in the streets, or odd jobs here and there.

I absolutely lived off of that which I bought from a grocery store. Many meals consisted of a loaf of bread, marmalade jam (or Nutella), and some sort of raw vegetable. These were usually enjoyed in an alleyway, cemetery, or public park. When I got back to America, I ended up homeless for a few months until such time as I was able to land a good job.

15 years later, I was working at a Fortune 100, among the top 1% of wage earners, which I understand makes me evil...

Point is, I managed to feed myself with no assistance from any government or charity. And I'm nothing special. Nobody deserves other people's money because they prefer to not eat simply.

If you mean that most homeless or jobless families or even single people believe that, you're wrong.

In 1968, I decided I wanted to go live in NYC. I landed there with one suitcase, one cardboard box and $50. I landed three good jobs on the first day I went out looking and got to choose the one I thought would be the most interesting. I was able rent a very nice room in a residence on the upper east side (near Jacqui Kennedy's apartment, actually. Better class of rats and cockroaches.) that included two meals a day for $35 a month. Today, I would not be able to rent space in a public bathroom that amount of money.

You simply cannot compare either yours or my experience with what people are facing today. We both got wonderful adventures traveling but times have changed.

As for the lettuce example, some are very nutritious. Iceberg head lettuce is nothing but cellulose and water. And, it tastes bad. Problem is, the good stuff is more costly.

Fact is, the poor could eat very well on a meatless diet and THAT is the most expensive part of any meal. But, people have the mistaken idea that they must eat meat, must feed their kids meat. Little do they know that the McDonald's crap (and other meat) they buy for their kids is setting them up for all kinds of diseases later. And, the people who DO know how bad meat is, lie to themselves about it.

Example - People ingest 7 million pounds of antibiotics every year in the US. We give livestock 29 million pounds ever year. And, we can't understand why we're seeing more and more resistant bacteria.

This is worse for kids because they're getting an entire lifetime of daily doses on antibiotics.

You know, the world was a lot different in 1968 and it was a lot easier to get a job. Not to mention the fact that that job, even at minimum wage had more spending power than today's mw jobs.

 

[koshergrl]

It's so funny because I've been living this for a year. We moved here from a very rural area, where I had a lot more ldisposable income (my rent/utilities were about 1/3 of what they are here...and I shared food costs with another household...I very seldom had to cook dinner at night..then we moved here and suddenly, I had to give it a LOT of thought. I didn't have another person monitoring the kids' food intake and feeding them as they needed it..it was just me, and I had a lot less money.

Then for a while I had an adolescent boy in the house for a while, too...

I have had to really put some serious thought into the situation, and have done it both ways....

I can't support McD's. I can't support eating out at ALL..I can't tell you the last time I went out and had a sit down meal at a restaurant. I just can't justify the expense...I can take my family out for $40 (and that's a really low estimate) or I can feed them for 5 days on $40.

Cuz I can feed them for a week on $40 if I have to. It isn't delish, but it's food.

And the whole time I'm rolling around in my head..what nutrients are the kids getting...are they getting what they need? I can't afford vitamins (and I'm not super sold on them anyway)but I don't want them to get scurvy!

Apples, potatoes, cabbage, beans, rice...cheap cuts of meat..

Homeless people can manage a diet like that too.

They just have to get canned beans that are already cooked.

 

[koshergrl]

Good point, plus lettuce isn't really meant to just be eaten alone, its supposed to be used for salads and sandwiches and such. I find it laughable people expect poor people to go to grocery stores and just eat a tomato or a head of lettuce by itself.

When I was a young man, I finished school with enough money saved to buy an open ended round trip flight from NY to London. I took the next several years and traveled around the world with a backpack. Had NO money, but instead worked my way through Europe, Africa and the Middle East, cooking at a youth hostel for food and a bed, picking grapes during the season, busking in the streets, or odd jobs here and there.

I absolutely lived off of that which I bought from a grocery store. Many meals consisted of a loaf of bread, marmalade jam (or Nutella), and some sort of raw vegetable. These were usually enjoyed in an alleyway, cemetery, or public park. When I got back to America, I ended up homeless for a few months until such time as I was able to land a good job.

15 years later, I was working at a Fortune 100, among the top 1% of wage earners, which I understand makes me evil...

Point is, I managed to feed myself with no assistance from any government or charity. And I'm nothing special. Nobody deserves other people's money because they prefer to not eat simply.

If you mean that most homeless or jobless families or even single people believe that, you're wrong.

In 1968, I decided I wanted to go live in NYC. I landed there with one suitcase, one cardboard box and $50. I landed three good jobs on the first day I went out looking and got to choose the one I thought would be the most interesting. I was able rent a very nice room in a residence on the upper east side (near Jacqui Kennedy's apartment, actually. Better class of rats and cockroaches.) that included two meals a day for $35 a month. Today, I would not be able to rent space in a public bathroom that amount of money.

You simply cannot compare either yours or my experience with what people are facing today. We both got wonderful adventures traveling but times have changed.

As for the lettuce example, some are very nutritious. Iceberg head lettuce is nothing but cellulose and water. And, it tastes bad. Problem is, the good stuff is more costly.

Fact is, the poor could eat very well on a meatless diet and THAT is the most expensive part of any meal. But, people have the mistaken idea that they must eat meat, must feed their kids meat. Little do they know that the McDonald's crap (and other meat) they buy for their kids is setting them up for all kinds of diseases later. And, the people who DO know how bad meat is, lie to themselves about it.

Example - People ingest 7 million pounds of antibiotics every year in the US. We give livestock 29 million pounds ever year. And, we can't understand why we're seeing more and more resistant bacteria.

This is worse for kids because they're getting an entire lifetime of daily doses on antibiotics.

There isn't any nutrition in it, that's true.

I'm not a fan of withholding meat from a kid's diet, but like I said...you get by with legumes/grains together for a complete protein and you make sure you are aware of the stuff your kid is eating at home and at school. I'm grateful that my kids have access to salads at school, because I don't serve fresh greens very often at my table. Maybe once a week....though I really should beef that up. You can get greens on sale..you just get what's on sale, regardless of what it is and serve it. In fact, I'm going to make a committment right now to doing that. I think I have a head of lettuce right now moldering in my fridge, lol. I'll serve whatever is edible with dinner tonight, I know at least 3 of the kids will eat some....which is better than just letting it rot. And it only cost $.99.

No, there's not a lot of nutritional value in it, but it's roughage, and it provides a different texture.

We're going to pig out tonight, lol.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Because its too expensive.

Do you know that it is cheaper to buy a jumbo bag of potato chips and a 2 litre bottle of coke than it is to buy a loaf of bread and a bottle of water?

Ever got those catalogues in the mail with the latest specials from your local supermarket? How many times do you see soft drinks, chocolate, chips and cakes discounted, sometimes by up to 50%? Compare that to how many times you see a price reduction on healthy foods, like apples, oranges, bananas, and bottled water.

In KFC the other day, it was cheaper for me to buy a burger, a piece of chicken, three wings, a small popcorn chicken, a regular chips, a regular gravy and a can of Pepsi than it was to buy a salad and a bottle of water. I wanted a salad and a water, but when I compared the prices, I wondered why I should spend more money on a healthy item when I can get the unhealthy food a lot cheaper?

How many other families see this problem? How about no discounts on junk food, and discounts only on healthy foods?


I never used to understand why people claimed they couldn't afford healthy foods, but I understand now, because its true.

You can't possibly mean that! Moochelle is doing everything she can to shut down every fast food outlet in North America. What will they eat when that happens? Dog and/or cat food like elderly people trying to get by on their measly SSN check?

Post proof or just stfu.

GAWD, you stooopid idiots are just damn tiresome. You keep repeating the same tired lies over and over again. Next you'll be whining about the NON-EXISTENT ObamaPhones.

Oh, and numbnuts, price dog and cat food. No one ever ate it because it has always been a lot more expensive than human food.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

I live in Australia. Please try to remember that our groceries cost a little more over here.

But I thought Socialism was Utopia.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

koshergirl, some good points but a very real consideration for someone who is homeless is carrying food with them. A few cans of beans and you can't walk. Water poses the same problem and, amazingly, water is hard to come by if you're homeless.

And, if you're homeless, you can't get food stamps or other assistance, because you have to an address. Nor can you look for a job and for the same reason. And, if you're able to find a job, how do you bathe? take care of clothes that you have to carry with you at all times?

Also, it used to be thought that we needed to "combine" foods in order to get "complete proteins". I remember reading Francis Moore Lappe's books but that has been debunked. Its also known now that we don't need to ingest protein. We actually don't utilize/metabolize it that way. Instead, we make protein from the essential amino acids.

In addition, the ingestion of a high protein diet contributes to several of the diseases that our expensive western diet cause. Very funny is that back in the 70s, the American Dairy Assoc -a cartel of dairy businesses whose sole reason for existence is to get you to buy a product that is bad for you - did two studies that showed that using dairy products actually increases osteoporosis.

Its not just the dairy - its the high protein, high fat in what has become the normal diet in the western world. That's why the Chinese, Japanese and others are now getting osteoporosis, as well as heart disease, cancer, etc - they're eating the way the rich Americans do.

You can find an excellent discussion of those two studies in the book, Diet For A New America by John Robbins (of Baskin Robbins!). The American Dairy Assoc sued him and lost because the results of both studies are now in the public domain. Hard to find, but they are out there.

"... feeding an adolescent boy..." will put anyone in the poor house!

 

[Luddly Neddite]

I live in Australia. Please try to remember that our groceries cost a little more over here.

But I thought Socialism was Utopia.

Its an island dingbat.

If they don't produce it, they have to import it.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

koshergirl, some good points but a very real consideration for someone who is homeless is carrying food with them. A few cans of beans and you can't walk. Water poses the same problem and, amazingly, water is hard to come by if you're homeless.

And, if you're homeless, you can't get food stamps or other assistance, because you have to an address. Nor can you look for a job and for the same reason. And, if you're able to find a job, how do you bathe? take care of clothes that you have to carry with you at all times?

Also, it used to be thought that we needed to "combine" foods in order to get "complete proteins". I remember reading Francis Moore Lappe's books but that has been debunked. Its also known now that we don't need to ingest protein. We actually don't utilize/metabolize it that way. Instead, we make protein from the essential amino acids.

In addition, the ingestion of a high protein diet contributes to several of the diseases that our expensive western diet cause. Very funny is that back in the 70s, the American Dairy Assoc -a cartel of dairy businesses whose sole reason for existence is to get you to buy a product that is bad for you - did two studies that showed that using dairy products actually increases osteoporosis.

Its not just the dairy - its the high protein, high fat in what has become the normal diet in the western world. That's why the Chinese, Japanese and others are now getting osteoporosis, as well as heart disease, cancer, etc - they're eating the way the rich Americans do.

You can find an excellent discussion of those two studies in the book, Diet For A New America by John Robbins (of Baskin Robbins!). The American Dairy Assoc sued him and lost because the results of both studies are now in the public domain. Hard to find, but they are out there.

"... feeding an adolescent boy..." will put anyone in the poor house!

Simple, you "tuck" or stuff items and come back for them. When I was in Flagstaff, my brother and I were homeless for a stint. We bathed in the bathroom (french shower style) at the Monte Vista, and tucked our belongings for later retrieval while we conducted odd jobs. There is no need to carry a 5 gallon jug of water or the like. I had a Nalgene for the day, and could fill it at any spigot.

It can be done. It's called improvising.