Zone1 Why Can God Forgive Me For Being Angry With Him When I Can't?

[Meriweather]

Although that's not one of the reasons why I'm an atheist, I would say that it's true. Of course it would have to be true, by definition of atheism alone!

Any relationship takes effort. A relationship with God and his ways takes great effort. Some don't think that effort is worth the time or their while. For others, it is the most valuable thing in our lives, because it involves and encompasses everything in our lives.

 

[Donald H]

Any relationship takes effort. A relationship with God and his ways takes great effort.

I can believe that is true and as you suggest takes greater effort than any other relationships

Some don't think that effort is worth the time or their while.

I know that to be true because many are going through the motions of pretending to be Christians. It doesn't apply to me as an atheist but it might apply to other atheists? Do you have any evidence to say that it does?

For others, it is the most valuable thing in our lives, because it involves and encompasses everything in our lives.

I think you can honestly say that for yourself. I've never thought otherwise with you. I doubt that Ding is so motivated because of the bitterness and his lack of interest in any rational, polite, and respectful discussion. He can't feel respect for an atheist. But we have gained in our discussion that we feel mutual respect for each other.

You do understand that a relationship with your god play no part in my life. My feelings about the existence of your god does play a part and I devote considerable time to that.

 

[Cougarbear]

You see I'm supposed to go to a baseball game this evening and see a friend that I rarely ever see anymore.


Last night there was a humongous chance of rain so I started getting extremely angry with God that that probably wouldn't happen but now I see sunshine everywhere and I am currently bathed in guilt for how I acted.


I already told Him that I was sorry and I know that He forgives me but I don't feel like I can be forgiven for that. I just have a really hard time with forgiving myself. Moreso than being able to forgive others. Either way no matter what would have happened I acted like a complete and utter idiot last night.

I agree. So, why don’t you go do something for someone in need as a way to pay restitution so you feel better.

 

[Meriweather]

I know that to be true because many are going through the motions of pretending to be Christians. It doesn't apply to me as an atheist but it might apply to other atheists? Do you have any evidence to say that it does?

My husband and his family Huge sports fans.

 

[Donald H]

My husband and his family Huge sports fans.

I was agreeing with you that your relationship with your god takes more effort than your other relationships. Are you suggesting that a relationship with huge sports fan is difficult? I can't say but I would imagine it to be difficult.

 

[ding]

Are you suggesting that a relationship with huge sports fan is difficult? I can't say but I would imagine it to be difficult.

I don't believe that is what she is suggesting. Maybe try reading the entire exchange again and see if you can come up with a better understanding of what she was addressing with that comment. I know you can do it if you stop trying to act like a shit stain.

 

[Meriweather]

I was agreeing with you that your relationship with your god takes more effort than your other relationships. Are you suggesting that a relationship with huge sports fan is difficult? I can't say but I would imagine it to be difficult.

Not what I am saying...

 

[Donald H]

Not what I am saying...

You can tell me what you mean if you like.

But I fear that we won't be able to carry on a polite and respectful discussion while Ding is taking part. I'll postpone my contributions for now unless it remains acceptable to both of us.

 

[ding]

You can tell me what you mean if you like.

But I fear that we won't be able to carry on a polite and respectful discussion while Ding is taking part. I'll postpone my contributions for now unless it remains acceptable to both of us.

I see straight through your condescending, patronizing and passive aggressive BS. I doubt I'm the only one.

You are a subversive. Your entire essence of being is based upon deceit. You are the serpent in genesis.

 

[Meriweather]

You can tell me what you mean if you like.

But I fear that we won't be able to carry on a polite and respectful discussion while Ding is taking part. I'll postpone my contributions for now unless it remains acceptable to both of us.

All I meant is that while I may prefer spending time in religious studies, prayer, and talking about faith, is that they prefer spending their time watching, reading up on, and talking about sports.

PS: That doesn't mean I don't spend time talking sports with them, or that they never spend time discussing religion with me.

 

[Donald H]

All I meant is that while I may prefer spending time in religious studies, prayer, and talking about faith, is that they prefer spending their time watching, reading up on, and talking about sports.

I actually imagined that was your intent.

PS: That doesn't mean I don't spend time talking sports with them, or that they never spend time discussing religion with me.

Understood.

I'm sorry but I'm going to have to postpone my part in our discussion for now. If you feel it's worth it to rectify the problem then please do by appealing ............................

[quote}

I see straight through your condescending, patronizing and passive aggressive BS. I doubt I'm the only one.
You are a subversive. Your entire essence of being is based upon deceit. You are the serpent in genesis.

 

[Donald H]

Any relationship takes effort. A relationship with God and his ways takes great effort. Some don't think that effort is worth the time or their while. For others, it is the most valuable thing in our lives, because it involves and encompasses everything in our lives.

Let's try to get this back to the topic.

The OP stated: "Last night there was a humongous chance of rain so I started getting extremely angry with God that that probably wouldn't happen but now I see sunshine everywhere and I am currently bathed in guilt for how I acted."

Do you consider that to be sincere comments? I don't and I consider it to be over the top and not to be taken seriously.

I'm bringing the question up as a genuine question to you, but also my attempt to keep our discussion on track and perhaps serving a useful purpose. Would any Christian become angry with his god on account of rain? I don't think so and that's because it would be demonstrating a very low level of intelligence. The statements are meant to demonstrate some other purpose. Do you agree?

I realize it's quite elementary but I'm grasping at straws on how to keep our discussion alive. We're going to see if it's possible to maintain order and civility between two opposites?

 

[Meriweather]

The OP stated: "Last night there was a humongous chance of rain so I started getting extremely angry with God that that probably wouldn't happen but now I see sunshine everywhere and I am currently bathed in guilt for how I acted."

Do you consider that to be sincere comments? I don't and I consider it to be over the top and not to be taken seriously.

I'm bringing the question up as a genuine question to you, but also my attempt to keep our discussion on track and perhaps serving a useful purpose. Would any Christian become angry with his god on account of rain? I don't think so and that's because it would be demonstrating a very low level of intelligence. The statements are meant to demonstrate some other purpose. Do you agree?

I cannot imagine getting angry or being angry at God over anything. I don't even get any angry at the weathermen over the weather.

When I do get angry, I handle it so differently, I'm not sure I can relate to the OP. To me, strong emotions, anger in particular, is something that happens from within. I call it a Lion emotion. A Lion emotion is a strong emotion that calls for action. That's when I call upon the 'Lamb' emotions (the lion and the lamb lying down together) on what action to take so that both Lion and Lamb are content. In the case of a rain-out, could I call my friend and arrange to meet somewhere, since not meeting up with the friend seemed to trigger more than missing a game.

It's my opinion that it has nothing to do with intelligence, but would guess other inner turmoil is ongoing that triggers the anger.

 

[Donald H]

I cannot imagine getting angry or being angry at God over anything.

Of course!

I don't even get any angry at the weathermen over the weather.

Yes.

When I do get angry, I handle it so differently, I'm not sure I can relate to the OP. To me, strong emotions, anger in particular, is something that happens from within. I call it a Lion emotion. A Lion emotion is a strong emotion that calls for action. That's when I call upon the 'Lamb' emotions (the lion and the lamb lying down together) on what action to take so that both Lion and Lamb are content. In the case of a rain-out, could I call my friend and arrange to meet somewhere, since not meeting up with the friend seemed to trigger more than missing a game.

I was really only trying to recover our discussion and that's the reason why I went back to the OP and his title for the thread. But you have added a lot more. Unfortunately for me at least, I'm out of time for today and so I'll pay your remarks the attention they deserve tomorrow!

It's my opinion that it has nothing to do with intelligence, but would guess other inner turmoil is ongoing that triggers the anger.

Especially that requires some thought.

Mainly my motive is to keep the discussion going, but on certain conditions. So we'll see?

 

[Donald H]

I cannot imagine getting angry or being angry at God over anything. I don't even get any angry at the weathermen over the weather.

When I do get angry, I handle it so differently, I'm not sure I can relate to the OP. To me, strong emotions, anger in particular, is something that happens from within. I call it a Lion emotion. A Lion emotion is a strong emotion that calls for action. That's when I call upon the 'Lamb' emotions (the lion and the lamb lying down together) on what action to take so that both Lion and Lamb are content. In the case of a rain-out, could I call my friend and arrange to meet somewhere, since not meeting up with the friend seemed to trigger more than missing a game.

It's my opinion that it has nothing to do with intelligence, but would guess other inner turmoil is ongoing that triggers the anger.

The lion and the lamb lying down together makes no sense to me. I could be missing the intent, due to not being a Christian believer? Or is it as simplistic as it seems at first sight?

I would suggest that some or maybe most highly intelligent people are not subject to some causes of inner turmoil, but become victims to other truths. We've all seen or heard of that.

 

[Cougarbear]

The lion and the lamb lying down together makes no sense to me. I could be missing the intent, due to not being a Christian believer? Or is it as simplistic as it seems at first sight?

I would suggest that some or maybe most highly intelligent people are not subject to some causes of inner turmoil, but become victims to other truths. We've all seen or heard of that.

It could be so-called lesser intelligent people become victims of prideful intelligent people. Hitler, Stalin, Mao and many others come to mind. Not that they were highly intelligent. Just unbelievers in God. The fact is, like Louis Pasture said, the more intelligent we get, the more I cannot NOT believe in God.

The lion and the lamb are fed by God. So there is no need for the lion to eat the lamb. Why do humans kill animals and vegetables? Because we get hungry. There will be no Satan during the millennium too to tempt us. God gave the Israelites manna from Heaven to eat the they still did evil and even killed.

Anyway, can’t we all just get along is Mariweathers point.

 

[Donald H]

It could be so-called lesser intelligent people become victims of prideful intelligent people. Hitler, Stalin, Mao and many others come to mind. Not that they were highly intelligent. Just unbelievers in God. The fact is, like Louis Pasture said, the more intelligent we get, the more I cannot NOT believe in God.

The lion and the lamb are fed by God. So there is no need for the lion to eat the lamb.

I've never heard an explanation stated that way. Does it include some motivation for the lamb to lie down too?

Why do humans kill animals and vegetables? Because we get hungry. There will be no Satan during the millennium too to tempt us. God gave the Israelites manna from Heaven to eat the they still did evil and even killed.

You might try to correct the grammar? All I'm getting out of that is that you believe that killing animals and vegetables for food is evil.

I'll just add to that by saying that Jews could kill animals in a humane way and forget the superstitious needs.

Anyway, can’t we all just get along is Mariweathers point.

Well that depends on what is required by her and others to get along. I haven't heard her making any extraordinary demands yet.

 

[Meriweather]

The lion and the lamb lying down together makes no sense to me. I could be missing the intent, due to not being a Christian believer? Or is it as simplistic as it seems at first sight?

It gets complicated, at least the way I have combined the two. Isaiah writes about a time of peace where the wolf and the lamb, the leopard and kid (young goat), the calf and the lion all live peaceably together with a young child to lead them.

Jump to Christianity where Jesus is described both as the Lamb of God and the Lion of Judah. Judah (name means praise) was the tribe that went into battle before any of the other eleven tribes. In all of this we have praise, warriors, and peace/forgiveness. What we see in all of this is a place for both warrior and peace. We see both in Jesus, and how they work together. At some point in my life (years ago) I had the idea that the so-called negative emotions (such as anger, jealousy, meanness) had an opposite/sister emotion in peace, generosity, kindness. The lion emotion was never meant to eat the quieter emotion, and the quieter emotion was not meant to flee or be eaten by the stronger emotion. They are meant to dwell together. To me, the stronger emotions signify a need to act, and that action can be tempered and include wisdom by joining with the quieter emotions.

In the end, before action, comes Praise to God for the opportunity to grow and bring about goodness in a sticky situation. A successful resolution through the actions chosen leads to forgiveness and peace.

 

[Donald H]

It gets complicated, at least the way I have combined the two. Isaiah writes about a time of peace where the wolf and the lamb, the leopard and kid (young goat), the calf and the lion all live peaceably together with a young child to lead them.

Jump to Christianity where Jesus is described both as the Lamb of God and the Lion of Judah. Judah (name means praise) was the tribe that went into battle before any of the other eleven tribes. In all of this we have praise, warriors, and peace/forgiveness. What we see in all of this is a place for both warrior and peace. We see both in Jesus, and how they work together. At some point in my life (years ago) I had the idea that the so-called negative emotions (such as anger, jealousy, meanness) had an opposite/sister emotion in peace, generosity, kindness. The lion emotion was never meant to eat the quieter emotion, and the quieter emotion was not meant to flee or be eaten by the stronger emotion. They are meant to dwell together. To me, the stronger emotions signify a need to act, and that action can be tempered and include wisdom by joining with the quieter emotions.

Thank you but I'm still only getting it as the ideal of all animals, including humans, living peacefully together. That is intuitively impossible and isn't an ideal to be sought in my opinion. Maybe for vegans? Is it any different from an Anteater finding an ant's nest for dinner?

In the end, before action, comes Praise to God for the opportunity to grow and bring about goodness in a sticky situation. A successful resolution through the actions chosen leads to forgiveness and peace.

A sticky situation? I'm not trying to make light of the question but isn't the lamb (gazelle) intended by your god to be the lion's lunch?

I think the message needs to be conveyed in some other way instead of the lion and the lamb.

 

[Cougarbear]

I've never heard an explanation stated that way. Does it include some motivation for the lamb to lie down too?

You might try to correct the grammar? All I'm getting out of that is that you believe that killing animals and vegetables for food is evil.

I'll just add to that by saying that Jews could kill animals in a humane way and forget the superstitious needs.

Well that depends on what is required by her and others to get along. I haven't heard her making any extraordinary demands yet.

1. It's a metaphor on peace in the world. No more wars and strife.
2. Hey, I don't complain about other's typos as we all have many posts to respond to. No, the metaphor is that the lion kills the lamb for food only. His belly will be full continuously and will be friendly to all animals. The tigers, bears and all animals. My question is will the insects and bugs also no longer need to bother us with bites and stuff.
3. Jews don't kill animals in sacrifice anymore. This is something I ask my Jewish family and friends, why don't they anymore if they don't believe Jesus was the atoning and final sacrifice. Their answer is that they need the Temple built again before they can. But, that doesn't make sense since animal sacrifice was done not just in the Temple. I'll ignore the unnecessary comment about superstition.
4. You won't. She's pretty non-confrontational. Nice person. Just misguided by Catholic teaching.