Zone1 Why Can God Forgive Me For Being Angry With Him When I Can't?

[ding]

Can you reinforce the idea with Blackrook that it's important to take action to change his life of misfortunes?

After that, he can immediately turn to prayer, and even credit the praying for his positive life changes!

That would go a ways in showing others that we can cooperate even though we disagree on the god being real.

Maybe you could even state the fact in a way that might be more acceptable to him?

Why would anyone do that? The best teacher is experience. Mistakes will continue to be repeated until lessons are learned. But please do continue to do the same things and expect different results. I couldn't be happier for you to suffer through your consequences. The best you can ever hope for is to suffer without complaint. Good luck with that. I'll continue to live the dream.

 

[ding]

If there's a god, then don't blame him.

Blame those who convinced you to believe in a god.

Your logic is astounding, Karl.

 

[ding]

Are you willing to allow me to make some suggestions on how you can feed your family? I need the background information first. Then you'll be guaranteed of somebody paying attention and caring.

Your god didn't do that.

So moral support is what you are offering?

 

[Mr Natural]

Maybe it's just God fucking with you for being a Trump supporter.

 

[Meriweather]

Can you reinforce the idea with Blackrook that it's important to take action to change his life of misfortunes?

After that, he can immediately turn to prayer, and even credit the praying for his positive life changes!

That would go a ways in showing others that we can cooperate even though we disagree on the god being real.

Maybe you could even state the fact in a way that might be more acceptable to him?

Blackrook is a person of strong faith, and of prayer...which means no one else should get in the way of the Holy Spirit working in his life. If/when Blackrook thinks human experience can give an assist, he'll be prompted to ask.

Until then...I'll never forget an instance in my own life where I was praying for help with classroom management issues I was having. I had been praying for four years, wondering why I wasn't getting the help I needed when one day, everything clicked into place. That day, I looked back on the four years and was readily able to identify often coincidental experiences that had dropped into my life. These step-by-step coincidental events, along with everyday occurrences, presented me with the answers I needed. God, through his Holy Spirit, took four years to work up a plan that was right for me--and I am still in awe.

If we're one of the 'coincidences' Blackrook needs in his life, at the right time he will be here, or will be prompted to ask. Or, he may be prompted to find or seek other's thoughts in a different place. As I say...let's not get in the way of God's Holy Spirit and deflect in a way that might prove unhelpful.

 

[Road Runner]

Maybe it's just God fucking with you for being a Trump supporter.

 

[Donald H]

Blackrook is a person of strong faith, and of prayer...which means no one else should get in the way of the Holy Spirit working in his life.

I don't think you really understand what you've implied with that statement. However, I don't think you really believe that.

If/when Blackrook thinks human experience can give an assist, he'll be prompted to ask.

I would be very surprised and disappointed if I believed that you lived by that rule. I think you are no less charitable than an atheist who can offer help without being asked.

Until then...I'll never forget an instance in my own life where I was praying for help with classroom management issues I was having. I had been praying for four years, wondering why I wasn't getting the help I needed when one day, everything clicked into place. That day, I looked back on the four years and was readily able to identify often coincidental experiences that had dropped into my life. These step-by-step coincidental events, along with everyday occurrences, presented me with the answers I needed. God, through his Holy Spirit, took four years to work up a plan that was right for me--and I am still in awe.

If we're one of the 'coincidences' Blackrook needs in his life, at the right time he will be here, or will be prompted to ask. Or, he may be prompted to find or seek other's thoughts in a different place. As I say...let's not get in the way of God's Holy Spirit and deflect in a way that might prove unhelpful.

I was interested in learning your reason(s) why you wouldn't help a fellow Christian in need and you have given me a reason. I don't find it acceptable to allow a person to suffer until god comes to the rescue. But I think I understand why you do. It's as if you're advocating that mental health professionals are interfering in your god's work.

I'm not suggesting that Blackrock requires professional help, but you seem to be ruling out even good advice.

 

[Donald H]

So moral support is what you are offering?

Join in my discussion with Meriweather and try to contribute more from a Christian's POV. Your bitter and sarcastic comments aren't helping and that's the reason why they are ignored. Do you stand back too, allowing people to suffer, waiting for your god to the rescue? Is this something that is common to Christians that I've never been aware of?

 

[Meriweather]

I was interested in learning your reason(s) why you wouldn't help a fellow Christian in need and you have given me a reason. I don't find it acceptable to allow a person to suffer until god comes to the rescue. But I think I understand why you do. It's as if you're advocating that mental health professionals are interfering in your god's work.

I'm not suggesting that Blackrock requires professional help, but you seem to be ruling out even good advice.

When Blackrook asks, I respond. I am aware of his background. Besides, as Gordon Dickson once said, "Some people like my advice so well they frame it and hang in on a wall instead of using it."

 

[Donald H]

When Blackrook asks, I respond. I am aware of his background. Besides, as Gordon Dickson once said, "Some people like my advice so well they frame it and hang in on a wall instead of using it."

You've commented on yourself waiting for 4 years for your god to come to you with advice, and I found that relevant to Blackrock's situation.

I'm really only suggesting that other courses of action is needed, but his and your god should be the last resource.

So my point can be that I don't expect any last resource coming from what I imagine to be the supernatural, but you and Blackrock do. That doesn't need to be a bone of contention between us that would hamper our progress in our discussions.

Don't you agree with my principles? Don't hesitate to do everything you can for others and indeed yourself! Don't wait with an assumption that your god is going to intervene!

That would be like not seeking medical assistance if you knew you had contracted a fatal disease! You see, that appears to me to be the attitude that Blackrock has adopted.

 

[ding]

Join in my discussion with Meriweather and try to contribute more from a Christian's POV.

I found your criticism of God interesting given all you were offering was moral support. Should I be criticising you too?

 

[ding]

Your bitter and sarcastic comments aren't helping and that's the reason why they are ignored.

I was just doing to you, what you were doing to God. How can your sarcastic comments be helpful and mine not?

 

[ding]

Do you stand back too, allowing people to suffer, waiting for your god to the rescue? Is this something that is common to Christians that I've never been aware of?

What are you doing?

 

[Mister Iggy]

You see I'm supposed to go to a baseball game this evening and see a friend that I rarely ever see anymore.


Last night there was a humongous chance of rain so I started getting extremely angry with God that that probably wouldn't happen but now I see sunshine everywhere and I am currently bathed in guilt for how I acted.


I already told Him that I was sorry and I know that He forgives me but I don't feel like I can be forgiven for that. I just have a really hard time with forgiving myself. Moreso than being able to forgive others. Either way no matter what would have happened I acted like a complete and utter idiot last night.

You seem perfect to me, don’t beat yourself up.
I would smile next time it looks to be rained out.
You are exactly where God wants you to be.

 

[Meriweather]

You've commented on yourself waiting for 4 years for your god to come to you with advice, and I found that relevant to Blackrock's situation.

I'm really only suggesting that other courses of action is needed, but his and your god should be the last resource.

So my point can be that I don't expect any last resource coming from what I imagine to be the supernatural, but you and Blackrock do. That doesn't need to be a bone of contention between us that would hamper our progress in our discussions.

Don't you agree with my principles? Don't hesitate to do everything you can for others and indeed yourself! Don't wait with an assumption that your god is going to intervene!

That would be like not seeking medical assistance if you knew you had contracted a fatal disease! You see, that appears to me to be the attitude that Blackrock has adopted.

Do you not think I sought advice from other teachers and self-help books before and during my four years of prayer devoted to this? Others may not have been having problems, and others may have been helped by books and similar advice, but I was still struggling. This is not the only time prayer has worked in amazing ways. I've never found it necessary to relegate prayer to a place of, "last resort".

I am not one who uses prayer for the miraculous, but for solvable issues, with those issues being a way to be in service to the Lord or to other people. I'm not asking God for divine intervention to provide a supernatural solution. I'm asking God for direction so that I may be a better servant.

One of the best pieces I read about giving advice: Before offering, use 3H to identify why the person has come to you: Do they want Heard? Do they want a Hug? Do they want Help? Sometimes people (friends, family, sons/daughters) come to bounce an issue off someone simply to see how it bounces back. It gives them a new perspective on how they might resolve it on their own. If it is not help that is wanted, being heard and hugged is often useful.

 

[Donald H]

Do you not think I sought advice from other teachers and self-help books before and during my four years of prayer devoted to this?

I have no way of knowing if books and others could be of help but I'll hazard a no that I wouldn't think that.

Others may not have been having problems, and others may have been helped by books and similar advice, but I was still struggling. This is not the only time prayer has worked in amazing ways. I've never found it necessary to relegate prayer to a place of, "last resort".

Last resort is not an insult. I'm really just saying that prayer must not be the only answer, and I think it's dangerous to rely on prayer in any way. But I do understand that you do rely on prayer. That's your choice. I hope you don't take it as an insult if I say that it could be defeatist when a person is fighting a possibly terminal injury or disease.

I am not one who uses prayer for the miraculous, but for solvable issues, with those issues being a way to be in service to the Lord or to other people.

I'm afraid that I would seek the best professional advice I could if I didn't have an answer on how to help someone that I considered as needing my help

I'm not asking God for divine intervention to provide a supernatural solution. I'm asking God for direction so that I may be a better servant.

I understand!

One of the best pieces I read about giving advice: Before offering, use 3H to identify why the person has come to you: Do they want Heard? Do they want a Hug? Do they want Help?

I've not heard of the 3H. I rely on being intuitive enough to understand. So that which you want from me is in my opinion 'help' of some kind. Mostly what I want from you is your understanding that atheists don't need a god to be good people with a purpose in life.

Sometimes people (friends, family, sons/daughters) come to bounce an issue off someone simply to see how it bounces back. It gives them a new perspective on how they might resolve it on their own. If it is not help that is wanted, being heard and hugged is often useful.

I'm doing that too, besides asking for acceptance from a Christian.
I accept Christians without even needing to raise the issue, but I don't accept them entirely if they raise the issue of their beliefs. If the relationship is essential, as it would be in employment for example, I would need to find a way to resolve our differences.

So even though I don't need to resolve my differences with Ding, I still consider him to be worth the effort.

 

[Meriweather]

I hope you don't take it as an insult if I say that it could be defeatist when a person is fighting a possibly terminal injury or disease.

As I said, I don't pray for miracles. I pray for what I can do to help people who are terminal or have a terminal disease. This can open doors and/or provide insights that are of use.

Mostly what I want from you is your understanding that atheists don't need a god to be good people with a purpose in life.

Perhaps you are unaware I have been providing that understanding since I was a very small child. My beloved grandfather was atheist. Also my favorite uncle. And my husband. The inability to believe in God has nothing to do with any inability to be a good and wonderful person.

 

[Road Runner]

You seem perfect to me, don’t beat yourself up.
I would smile next time it looks to be rained out.

Thanks but not a baseball fan then?

 

[Mister Iggy]

Thanks but not a baseball fan then?

No.

 

[BreezeWood]

I already told Him that I was sorry and I know that He forgives me ...

rain is a blessing, flora certainly would not have forgiven you had what you did were the actual cause for their not being the rain.

doubtful the heavens either would forgive you - what happens the next time around will be for you to have learned your lesson, they already know.