Why are soldiers automatically considered heroes?

[The T]

I really, really dislike Memorial Day. Not because I hate the military (not true), nor because I don't think soldiers can't be heroes (also not true), but because I hate the spewing of jingoistic "all soldiers are heroes and they protect our freedom," by all parts of the political spectrum. Now, I want to make it clear that I do not believe soldiers can't be heroes; for example, I consider JFK to be one of the greatest men this country has seen, partly because of his actions in the military. What I am asking, is why all soldiers are automatically heroes? They certainly don't all earn it (US soldiers 'killed Afghan civilians for sport and collected fingers as trophies' | World news | The Guardian). And don't say it is because they are protecting our freedom, because frankly, they aren't right now. There were wars where they were, but our current conflicts are not intended to protect us.

Tell us? What part of your liberty don't you like? Maybe we can tailor which parts of liberty they protect?

 

[MikeK]

Because they give up their liberty to protect yours in a job that your not willing to do.

That is presumptuous and it draws on the kind of romantic jingoism referenced in the opening message. If what you've suggested were universally true there would be no need for the kind of inducements the military offers to attract enlistees.

THE SHEER EXISTENCE OF OUR MILITARY PROTECTS OUR FREEDOM 24/7!

That circumstance does not automatically confer hero status on everyone who for one reason or other becomes a member of the armed forces.

 

[The Gadfly]

Because they give up their liberty to protect yours in a job that your not willing to do.

That is presumptuous and it draws on the kind of romantic jingoism referenced in the opening message. If what you've suggested were universally true there would be no need for the kind of inducements the military offers to attract enlistees.

THE SHEER EXISTENCE OF OUR MILITARY PROTECTS OUR FREEDOM 24/7!

That circumstance does not automatically confer hero status on everyone who for one reason or other becomes a member of the armed forces.

Maybe not, but it also does not make them a legitimate object for contempt and scorn from a certain part of the political spectrum.

 

[Trajan]

Obama, is a hero.

 

[Wicked Jester]

I've never yet met a combat veteran who considered himself a hero; that includes men whose decorations and the citations for them say otherwise. Every one of them, however, will tell you about others they think were/are heroes. Those who walk into hell, and by luck or the grace of God walk out again, are humbled by the experience.

The true hero's are those we are honoring and remembering this weekend.

Obviously, there are some true idiots up here who don't seem to understand that.....To those asshats, it's nothing but a free day off (for those who actually WORK) and a BBQ.

 

[MikeK]

My draft status in 1956 was 1-A, so there was little doubt that I would be drafted. That, combined with the macho sense of warrior virtue instilled in me by the reputation earned by the Marines in WW-II and Korea, which was still fresh in the collective mind of America, is why I chose to join the Marines rather than wait to be drafted into the Army.

Military service back then was not an option for able-bodied young men. It was an obligation. Something that came naturally -- unless one was 4-F or had unusual family obligations.

I joined for four years rather than two, not because of exceptional patriotism but because I wanted to go to Japan where my cousin was stationed and had written to me about how great the Liberty was. And while I never managed to hook up with him I did enjoy the time I spent in Japan and Okinawa during the first two years, but the second two years that I spent on Camp LeJeune made me regret signing up for four instead of two. I came to despise military life and I can say without reservation that the day they handed me my DD-214 was one of the happiest days in my memory.

I do not consider myself a "hero" by any stretch of imagination. And I regard the rather patronizing cliche, "Thank you for your service to our country," to mean, better you than me. Briefly stated I think it's meaningless, inappropriate, redundant bullshit.

I think of my father and an uncle as heroes because they both enlisted in the Army right after Pearl Harbor was bombed, so they knew damn well they were going to war. I had no such awareness.

I was very fortunate to be in the Corps from 1956 to 1960, which was peacetime and I have no regrets about that. But if for some reason (beyond my ability to imagine) I would have liked military service and had "shipped over" (re-enlisted) and ended up fighting in Vietnam I would have been one very pissed off and resentful trooper. Because I didn't join the Corps to be used in that kind of wasteful, unnecessary, unjustifiable and stupidly aggressive killing and risk of death or disfigurement. I joined for the presumed purpose of defending my country against aggression.

So I became an active protester. And I can unequivocally state that if I had sons of military age during that era I would have sent them to Canada rather than allow them to be wasted in the crime that was our aggression in Vietnam. And if I had sons today who wanted to join the military I would do all I could to steer them to the Air Force or the Coast Guard. Because I have absolutely no faith or trust in the kind of corrupt sonsabitches who are in a position to send America's sons and brothers to kill and die for no better reason than corporate interests.

The idea that someone is a hero simply by being a member of today's military is utter nonsense. It is the wishful thinking of the indoctrinated militaristic mind and nothing more.

 

[MikeK]

Maybe not, but it also does not make them a legitimate object for contempt and scorn from a certain part of the political spectrum.

Which "certain part of the political spectrum" are you alluding to? Please refer us to a specific example so we know what you are talking about.

 

[The Gadfly]

Mike,
Thank you for serving our country.....and when I tell you (or anyone else) that, I am NOT being "patronizing", or saying "better you than me", because I have been there, done that.

I joined up in 1962, before I went to college, so by the time things heated up in Vietnam, I had finished my active obligation, and was still in the Reserve. I could have avoided Vietnam; all I had to do was not re-up and apply for OCS. I could have let some kid with less experience do the fighting (and maybe the dying) for me, but you know what-after all I've been through, I am damn glad I didn't, and I'd do it again. I'd do it again, because it would not have felt right to do otherwise, not to me. Some call me a "war criminal" for that. Some say I "must love war". Bullshit. I hate war, but there's something I hate more-the idea of "peace at any price". So go ahead and call me an "indoctrinated militarist", or whatever else you damn well choose; I don't care, and I've been called worse. I know what I was fighting for, and I don't need or want anyone else telling me how I "should" feel about it.

By the way, I am a 'three-time volunteer", but I am no hero, never thought I was, or wanted to be. I am a survivor. You want heroes, go look on the Wall; you can find their names right there.

 

[The Gadfly]

Maybe not, but it also does not make them a legitimate object for contempt and scorn from a certain part of the political spectrum.

Which "certain part of the political spectrum" are you alluding to? Please refer us to a specific example so we know what you are talking about.

That would be the spitters, cursers and VC flag wavers. I think you know what "part of the spectrum" they belong to, but hell, don't take my word for it, ask them.

Now, I'm done with this discussion. Any and all of you who don't like what Monday is all about, can continue it, while those of us who happen to give a damn about honoring our dead can do so on the Memorial Day thread, hopefully without hearing any more political claptrap. That is all.

 

[Trajan]

My draft status in 1956 was 1-A, so there was little doubt that I would be drafted. That, combined with the macho sense of warrior virtue instilled in me by the reputation earned by the Marines in WW-II and Korea, which was still fresh in the collective mind of America, is why I chose to join the Marines rather than wait to be drafted into the Army.

Military service back then was not an option for able-bodied young men. It was an obligation. Something that came naturally -- unless one was 4-F or had unusual family obligations.

I joined for four years rather than two, not because of exceptional patriotism but because I wanted to go to Japan where my cousin was stationed and had written to me about how great the Liberty was. And while I never managed to hook up with him I did enjoy the time I spent in Japan and Okinawa during the first two years, but the second two years that I spent on Camp LeJeune made me regret signing up for four instead of two. I came to despise military life and I can say without reservation that the day they handed me my DD-214 was one of the happiest days in my memory.

I do not consider myself a "hero" by any stretch of imagination. And I regard the rather patronizing cliche, "Thank you for your service to our country," to mean, better you than me. Briefly stated I think it's meaningless, inappropriate, redundant bullshit.

I think of my father and an uncle as heroes because they both enlisted in the Army right after Pearl Harbor was bombed, so they knew damn well they were going to war. I had no such awareness.

I was very fortunate to be in the Corps from 1956 to 1960, which was peacetime and I have no regrets about that. But if for some reason (beyond my ability to imagine) I would have liked military service and had "shipped over" (reinlisted) and ended up fighting in Vietnam I would have been one very pissed off and resentful trooper. Because I didn't join the Corps to be used in that kind of wasteful, unnecessary, unjustifiable and stupidly aggressive killing and risk of death or disfigurement. I joined for the presumed purpose of defending my country against aggression.

So I became an active protester. And I can unequivocally state that if I had sons of military age during that era I would have sent them to Canada rather than allow them to be wasted in the crime that was our aggression in Vietnam. And if I had sons today who wanted to join the military I would do all I could to steer them to the Air Force or the Coast Guard. Because I have absolutely no faith or trust in the kind of corrupt sonsabitches who are in a position to send America's sons and brothers to kill and die for no better reason than corporate interests.

The idea that someone is a hero simply by being a member of today's military is utter nonsense. It is the wishful thinking of the indoctrinated militaristic mind and nothing more.

I am sorry you became sour on the military Mike, *shrugs*, but guess what, in 1936 I am sure you could have founds folks saying same and along came ww2.

As far as "indoctrinated militaristic mind and nothing more."...no, not so, there is 2.5 wars on and I know from experience there are at lest 6-7 other spots on the globe where American forces are at risk, in uniform and I am not going to split hairs on whether the guys hand I shake was/is an infantryman or a remf/pogue, I never do..... Just because you've spun out doesn't make the statement true or not.

It is what it is and we are all part of the same hypocrisy, some just seem to handle it better.

 

[lehr]

I really, really dislike Memorial Day. Not because I hate the military (not true), nor because I don't think soldiers can't be heroes (also not true), but because I hate the spewing of jingoistic "all soldiers are heroes and they protect our freedom," by all parts of the political spectrum. Now, I want to make it clear that I do not believe soldiers can't be heroes; for example, I consider JFK to be one of the greatest men this country has seen, partly because of his actions in the military. What I am asking, is why all soldiers are automatically heroes? They certainly don't all earn it (US soldiers 'killed Afghan civilians for sport and collected fingers as trophies' | World news | The Guardian). And don't say it is because they are protecting our freedom, because frankly, they aren't right now. There were wars where they were, but our current conflicts are not intended to protect us.

i do not know any soldiers who would call themselves - (heroes)

 

[Warrior102]

I really, really dislike Memorial Day. Not because I hate the military (not true), nor because I don't think soldiers can't be heroes (also not true), but because I hate the spewing of jingoistic "all soldiers are heroes and they protect our freedom," by all parts of the political spectrum. Now, I want to make it clear that I do not believe soldiers can't be heroes; for example, I consider JFK to be one of the greatest men this country has seen, partly because of his actions in the military. What I am asking, is why all soldiers are automatically heroes? They certainly don't all earn it (US soldiers 'killed Afghan civilians for sport and collected fingers as trophies' | World news | The Guardian). And don't say it is because they are protecting our freedom, because frankly, they aren't right now. There were wars where they were, but our current conflicts are not intended to protect us.

Who said they're automatically heroes?

Been to the brig in Norfolk lately? Lots of vets - not too many heroes.

There are good people/bad people in all walks of life. You haven't figured this out yet?

Sad that you "dislike" Memorial Day.

I suggest you visit a national cemetery tomorrow and talk to some of the families that are visiting there.

Maybe that'll change your viewpoint.

I plan on being there to simply show my respect. I don't need an explanation.

 

[uscitizen]

I think the point is to acknowledge that everyone who signs up for military service is committed to risking their lives, potentially heroically, for the rest of us. Neither our piss-poor leadership nor the idiotic wars they get us into diminish that commitment.

Depends if your father is a senator or somesuch or not.

 

[sparky]

It is what it is and we are all part of the same hypocrisy, some just seem to handle it better.

how uplifting.......

 

[JBeukema]

I think the point is to acknowledge that everyone who signs up for military service is committed to risking their lives, potentially heroically, for the rest of us. Neither our piss-poor leadership nor the idiotic wars they get us into diminish that commitment.

When was the last time out military was used to protect us?

 

[JBeukema]

The benefits require one to serve 20 years with no promise that A) the job won't make that impossible, B) the career path won't be phased out, C) Promotions won't be stagnant, forcing one out for failing to progress in rank,D)Injury suffered forces one out but does not raise to the level of getting a medical retirement.

The same complaints can be made about just about any retirement package

 

[Warrior102]

I think the point is to acknowledge that everyone who signs up for military service is committed to risking their lives, potentially heroically, for the rest of us. Neither our piss-poor leadership nor the idiotic wars they get us into diminish that commitment.

When was the last time out military was used to protect us?

So you feel the Department of Defense has been inept how many years now?

Wow....

Amazing.

You should seriously be ashamed.

And ungrateful.

 

[JBeukema]

Nobody says all servicemen are, on that basis alone, "heroes."

Yes, they do. And questioning that results in censorship by the mods.

Just ask Echo

http://www.usmessageboard.com/the-romper-room/169273-jbs-thoughts-about-our-vets.html

 

[JBeukema]

I think the point is to acknowledge that everyone who signs up for military service is committed to risking their lives, potentially heroically, for the rest of us. Neither our piss-poor leadership nor the idiotic wars they get us into diminish that commitment.

When was the last time out military was used to protect us?

So you feel the Department of Defense has been inept how many years now?

No, you're just a dishonest fool.

The military has been used against the American people in violation of posse comitatus and has been long used, not to protect the interests of the American people, but of the monied interests.

You should seriously be ashamed.

Why? For speaking the truth?

And ungrateful.

 

[Warrior102]

Nobody says all servicemen are, on that basis alone, "heroes."

Yes, they do. And questioning that results in censorship by the mods.

Just ask Echo

http://www.usmessageboard.com/the-romper-room/169273-jbs-thoughts-about-our-vets.html

Maybe this will help you out - http://www.usmessageboard.com/3698277-post32.html