Whose Free Speech Rights have been violated?

[Man of Ethics]

Case 1: Sometime in 1936, Ivan Kuznetsov was drunk and joked about Stalin with his friends. Two of his "friends" denounced him and in 1937 he was sentenced to 5 years hard labor.


Case 2: Sometime in 2020, John Smith smoked marijuana and told a politically incorrect joke to his friend over Zoom. His "friend" doxxed him and in 2021 he was cancelled, fired, and blacklisted.

 

[BULLDOG]

Case 1: Sometime in 1936, Ivan Kuznetsov was drunk and joked about Stalin with his friends. Two of his "friends" denounced him and in 1937 he was sentenced to 5 years hard labor.


Case 2: Sometime in 2020, John Smith smoked marijuana and told a politically incorrect joke to his friend over Zoom. His "friend" doxxed him and in 2021 he was cancelled, fired, and blacklisted.

Stalin's government was clearly involved in Kuznetsov's imprisonment. Which government department denied Smith any free speech rights?

 

[Rigby5]

Case 1: Sometime in 1936, Ivan Kuznetsov was drunk and joked about Stalin with his friends. Two of his "friends" denounced him and in 1937 he was sentenced to 5 years hard labor.


Case 2: Sometime in 2020, John Smith smoked marijuana and told a politically incorrect joke to his friend over Zoom. His "friend" doxxed him and in 2021 he was cancelled, fired, and blacklisted.

Stalin's government was clearly involved in Kuznetsov's imprisonment. Which government department denied Smith any free speech rights?

You have it backwards.
Smith has a right to freedom of political expression, so was under the protection of laws that say the employer should be sued.
Stalin had passed sedition laws making it illegal to joke about his as being a threat to the security of the country, so what happened to Kuznetsov was perfectly legal.

 

[BULLDOG]

Case 1: Sometime in 1936, Ivan Kuznetsov was drunk and joked about Stalin with his friends. Two of his "friends" denounced him and in 1937 he was sentenced to 5 years hard labor.


Case 2: Sometime in 2020, John Smith smoked marijuana and told a politically incorrect joke to his friend over Zoom. His "friend" doxxed him and in 2021 he was cancelled, fired, and blacklisted.

Stalin's government was clearly involved in Kuznetsov's imprisonment. Which government department denied Smith any free speech rights?

You have it backwards.
Smith has a right to freedom of political expression, so was under the protection of laws that say the employer should be sued.
Stalin had passed sedition laws making it illegal to joke about his as being a threat to the security of the country, so what happened to Kuznetsov was perfectly legal.

No. Again, our freedom of speech protects from interference in our speech by government. Not individuals or businesses. You really should educate yourself.

 

[justinacolmena]

No. Again, our freedom of speech protects from interference in our speech by government. Not individuals or businesses. You really should educate yourself.

Freedom of speech is not the sole prerogative of hookers and prostitutes.
A man in a suited and tied profession needs to say whatever he wants without fear of being fired for his political opinions.

 

[BULLDOG]

No. Again, our freedom of speech protects from interference in our speech by government. Not individuals or businesses. You really should educate yourself.

Freedom of speech is not the sole prerogative of hookers and prostitutes.
A man in a suited and tied profession needs to say whatever he wants without fear of being fired for his political opinions.

Great. All you gotta do is pass some laws making that required. Until then, His boss can kick his ass out damn near any time he wants to.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

Case 1: Sometime in 1936, Ivan Kuznetsov was drunk and joked about Stalin with his friends. Two of his "friends" denounced him and in 1937 he was sentenced to 5 years hard labor.


Case 2: Sometime in 2020, John Smith smoked marijuana and told a politically incorrect joke to his friend over Zoom. His "friend" doxxed him and in 2021 he was cancelled, fired, and blacklisted.

Stalin's government was clearly involved in Kuznetsov's imprisonment. Which government department denied Smith any free speech rights?

You have it backwards.
Smith has a right to freedom of political expression, so was under the protection of laws that say the employer should be sued.
Stalin had passed sedition laws making it illegal to joke about his as being a threat to the security of the country, so what happened to Kuznetsov was perfectly legal.

No. Again, our freedom of speech protects from interference in our speech by government. Not individuals or businesses. You really should educate yourself.

If that’s true why does anyone have to bake a cake for a gay wedding?

 

[Smokin' OP]

Case 1: Sometime in 1936, Ivan Kuznetsov was drunk and joked about Stalin with his friends. Two of his "friends" denounced him and in 1937 he was sentenced to 5 years hard labor.


Case 2: Sometime in 2020, John Smith smoked marijuana and told a politically incorrect joke to his friend over Zoom. His "friend" doxxed him and in 2021 he was cancelled, fired, and blacklisted.

Stalin's government was clearly involved in Kuznetsov's imprisonment. Which government department denied Smith any free speech rights?

You have it backwards.
Smith has a right to freedom of political expression, so was under the protection of laws that say the employer should be sued.
Stalin had passed sedition laws making it illegal to joke about his as being a threat to the security of the country, so what happened to Kuznetsov was perfectly legal.

No. Again, our freedom of speech protects from interference in our speech by government. Not individuals or businesses. You really should educate yourself.

If that’s true why does anyone have to bake a cake for a gay wedding?

No one has to.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

Case 1: Sometime in 1936, Ivan Kuznetsov was drunk and joked about Stalin with his friends. Two of his "friends" denounced him and in 1937 he was sentenced to 5 years hard labor.


Case 2: Sometime in 2020, John Smith smoked marijuana and told a politically incorrect joke to his friend over Zoom. His "friend" doxxed him and in 2021 he was cancelled, fired, and blacklisted.

Stalin's government was clearly involved in Kuznetsov's imprisonment. Which government department denied Smith any free speech rights?

You have it backwards.
Smith has a right to freedom of political expression, so was under the protection of laws that say the employer should be sued.
Stalin had passed sedition laws making it illegal to joke about his as being a threat to the security of the country, so what happened to Kuznetsov was perfectly legal.

No. Again, our freedom of speech protects from interference in our speech by government. Not individuals or businesses. You really should educate yourself.

If that’s true why does anyone have to bake a cake for a gay wedding?

No one has to.

Well no. All you have to do is shut down your business. You don’t really have to make the cake, you just can’t be open for business if you don’t. You know, freedom of choice and shit.

 

[Smokin' OP]

Case 1: Sometime in 1936, Ivan Kuznetsov was drunk and joked about Stalin with his friends. Two of his "friends" denounced him and in 1937 he was sentenced to 5 years hard labor.


Case 2: Sometime in 2020, John Smith smoked marijuana and told a politically incorrect joke to his friend over Zoom. His "friend" doxxed him and in 2021 he was cancelled, fired, and blacklisted.

Stalin's government was clearly involved in Kuznetsov's imprisonment. Which government department denied Smith any free speech rights?

You have it backwards.
Smith has a right to freedom of political expression, so was under the protection of laws that say the employer should be sued.
Stalin had passed sedition laws making it illegal to joke about his as being a threat to the security of the country, so what happened to Kuznetsov was perfectly legal.

No. Again, our freedom of speech protects from interference in our speech by government. Not individuals or businesses. You really should educate yourself.

If that’s true why does anyone have to bake a cake for a gay wedding?

No one has to.

Well no. All you have to do is shut down your business. You don’t really have to make the cake, you just can’t be open for business if you don’t. You know, freedom of choice and shit.

Wrong, the baker stayed open and never made the cake.

Just because you have freedom of speech and choice, doesn't protect you from repercussions.

Jack Phillips creates a masterpiece. Custom designs are his specialty: If you can think it up, Jack can make it into a cake!
masterpiececakes.com

 

[BULLDOG]

Case 1: Sometime in 1936, Ivan Kuznetsov was drunk and joked about Stalin with his friends. Two of his "friends" denounced him and in 1937 he was sentenced to 5 years hard labor.


Case 2: Sometime in 2020, John Smith smoked marijuana and told a politically incorrect joke to his friend over Zoom. His "friend" doxxed him and in 2021 he was cancelled, fired, and blacklisted.

Stalin's government was clearly involved in Kuznetsov's imprisonment. Which government department denied Smith any free speech rights?

You have it backwards.
Smith has a right to freedom of political expression, so was under the protection of laws that say the employer should be sued.
Stalin had passed sedition laws making it illegal to joke about his as being a threat to the security of the country, so what happened to Kuznetsov was perfectly legal.

No. Again, our freedom of speech protects from interference in our speech by government. Not individuals or businesses. You really should educate yourself.

If that’s true why does anyone have to bake a cake for a gay wedding?

You don't remember how that worked out?

 

[forkup]

Case 1: Sometime in 1936, Ivan Kuznetsov was drunk and joked about Stalin with his friends. Two of his "friends" denounced him and in 1937 he was sentenced to 5 years hard labor.


Case 2: Sometime in 2020, John Smith smoked marijuana and told a politically incorrect joke to his friend over Zoom. His "friend" doxxed him and in 2021 he was cancelled, fired, and blacklisted.

What do you mean by cancelled, fired and blacklisted? The reason I ask is that it seems to me that for all the people who are " cancelled" most of them get a lot of publicity.

As for being fired and blacklisted. While I agree that being an asshole isn't illegal and neither is smoking pot in a lot of places. But getting fired because you're an asshole or smoke pot isn't illegal either. And an employer has a right to hire and fire who he wants if the employee does something that violates company policy.

What you call cancelling I would call having to take responsibility. And what you seem to be asking is that being an asshole is not just allowed but that reacting to assholes shouldn't be allowed in any form.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

No. Again, our freedom of speech protects from interference in our speech by government. Not individuals or businesses. You really should educate yourself.

Freedom of speech is not the sole prerogative of hookers and prostitutes.
A man in a suited and tied profession needs to say whatever he wants without fear of being fired for his political opinions.

Wrong.

As already correctly noted: the doctrine of free speech concerns solely the relationship between government and those governed, not between or among private persons and private entities – such as an employer/employee relationship.

A conservative employee fired because of his hateful, racist comments has not had his freedom of speech ‘violated’ by the employer.

If government were to enact a law making it illegal to engage in racist hate speech, where citizens would be subject to criminal prosecution and imprisonment, that would be a violation of freedom of speech.

 

[JGalt]

Case 1: Sometime in 1936, Ivan Kuznetsov was drunk and joked about Stalin with his friends. Two of his "friends" denounced him and in 1937 he was sentenced to 5 years hard labor.


Case 2: Sometime in 2020, John Smith smoked marijuana and told a politically incorrect joke to his friend over Zoom. His "friend" doxxed him and in 2021 he was cancelled, fired, and blacklisted.

Russia has never had free speech rights.

 

[Man of Ethics]

As for being fired and blacklisted. While I agree that being an asshole isn't illegal and neither is smoking pot in a lot of places. But getting fired because you're an asshole or smoke pot isn't illegal either. And an employer has a right to hire and fire who he wants if the employee does something that violates company policy.

Hopefully Conservatives will support protection for workers against arbitrary firing. Most of those cancelled by Progressives are not guilty of actual bigotry.

 

[Man of Ethics]

Russia has never had free speech rights.

As long as employees are not protected from arbitrary firing, USA has no Free Speech either. USA has much less Freedom then Russia.

 

[Man of Ethics]

Some states protect employees from being fired for some lawful off-duty speech. Here.

Some states have laws that ban employers from taking adverse employment action against employees based on lawful off-duty conduct. Presently, California, Colorado, Louisiana, New York, and North Dakota prohibit employers from firing or retaliating against employees for off-duty lawful activity, including speech. Arguably, this could include conduct that their employers and coworkers may find offensive.

Hopefully Conservatives can work to make these laws expanded to all states and enforced to a greater degree.

 

[Rigby5]

Case 1: Sometime in 1936, Ivan Kuznetsov was drunk and joked about Stalin with his friends. Two of his "friends" denounced him and in 1937 he was sentenced to 5 years hard labor.


Case 2: Sometime in 2020, John Smith smoked marijuana and told a politically incorrect joke to his friend over Zoom. His "friend" doxxed him and in 2021 he was cancelled, fired, and blacklisted.

Stalin's government was clearly involved in Kuznetsov's imprisonment. Which government department denied Smith any free speech rights?

You have it backwards.
Smith has a right to freedom of political expression, so was under the protection of laws that say the employer should be sued.
Stalin had passed sedition laws making it illegal to joke about his as being a threat to the security of the country, so what happened to Kuznetsov was perfectly legal.

No. Again, our freedom of speech protects from interference in our speech by government. Not individuals or businesses. You really should educate yourself.

Wrong.
Originally the 1st amendment only applied to restrictions on the federal government.
But that does not mean there had not always already been the protected individual right of freedom of speech.
Just go back and read how during the time of the Founders, there were torchlight parades where standing government leaders would be hung in effigy, and no one could legally stop it.

And after the 14th amendment gave the federal courts the jurisdiction to protect individual rights from any abuse, there no longer is any question that discrimination against any free expression is totally illegal. It took time for the SCOTUS to establish what the legal precedent should be, but private censoring of political speech has never been legal. It has always been the norm that you can not refuse customers or employees over political expression.

Freedom of political expression does NOT come from the 1st amendment. It predates it and had to come first in order to be able to have a 1st Amendment. And the courts have consistently ruled that free political expression is the cornerstone of any democratic republic.

 

[Rigby5]

No. Again, our freedom of speech protects from interference in our speech by government. Not individuals or businesses. You really should educate yourself.

Freedom of speech is not the sole prerogative of hookers and prostitutes.
A man in a suited and tied profession needs to say whatever he wants without fear of being fired for his political opinions.

Wrong.

As already correctly noted: the doctrine of free speech concerns solely the relationship between government and those governed, not between or among private persons and private entities – such as an employer/employee relationship.

A conservative employee fired because of his hateful, racist comments has not had his freedom of speech ‘violated’ by the employer.

If government were to enact a law making it illegal to engage in racist hate speech, where citizens would be subject to criminal prosecution and imprisonment, that would be a violation of freedom of speech.

Wrong.
Free speech has NEVER been just relating to government.
It has never been legal to fire people based on their expression of political beliefs.
An employer can tell people to not bring up politics during work hours so that it does not reduce productivity, but that is all. If a person expresses political beliefs off works, they can not be fired for it, and never could.
That has always been illegal and always protected.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

Case 1: Sometime in 1936, Ivan Kuznetsov was drunk and joked about Stalin with his friends. Two of his "friends" denounced him and in 1937 he was sentenced to 5 years hard labor.


Case 2: Sometime in 2020, John Smith smoked marijuana and told a politically incorrect joke to his friend over Zoom. His "friend" doxxed him and in 2021 he was cancelled, fired, and blacklisted.

Stalin's government was clearly involved in Kuznetsov's imprisonment. Which government department denied Smith any free speech rights?

You have it backwards.
Smith has a right to freedom of political expression, so was under the protection of laws that say the employer should be sued.
Stalin had passed sedition laws making it illegal to joke about his as being a threat to the security of the country, so what happened to Kuznetsov was perfectly legal.

No. Again, our freedom of speech protects from interference in our speech by government. Not individuals or businesses. You really should educate yourself.

If that’s true why does anyone have to bake a cake for a gay wedding?

You don't remember how that worked out?

Worked out? He’s back in court again. The left won’t leave him alone.