CDZ Who set the medical field up when it comes to it's outrageous cost ??

[beagle9]

A medicine I could get 2 years ago for $16 cash is now $56.

So I find someone with insurance can get it for $11 and pay them $20.

Such bullshit it is.

Big Pharma is so locked into the government it's not even funny or right

SERIOUSLY -- try the Pharma cards like GoodRx. They fixed a LOT of that. Same thing as having an insurer -- "discount" it for you... No questions. No personal details. No nagging you with emails and advertising.

I've used GoodRx several times. It's a good supplement for most insurance formulates because formulates always leave stuff out that doctors prescribe. However, nothing beats the savings you get by ordering generic equivalents from Canada for US brand name drugs with no US generics. I save about 60% of the US drug price every month on two drugs, over $250 a month.

. Good stuff.

 

[Flopper]

1st.. We have us as human beings (correct), therefore being created by God (correct), and being gifted by God (correct), with our abilities to learn, create, build, and care for the beings and things in which we have control over.. Therefore these things were again given unto us by God (correct), so why do we fail him now ??

2nd.. we have the earth in which is full of natural resources, and is surrounded by the air in which we breath, the water in which we drink, the cycles in which we live by daily, and all things in which God had given us to thrive and survive as human beings upon it, so you tell me how after all that God had granted unto us here, that we can't seem to produce a pill, treatment or medical procedure that saves human lives after all that God had done for us for free, (for a reasonable price to us as human beings) ??

We as a Godly people should absolutely not be putting human beings in a position to choose death over the cost of care at the levels in which it is currently going on in hospitals all across this nation. I mean a pill that cost thousands of dollars when the natural resources it took to create the pill or went into the pill was so miniscule that you can't even see it with the naked eye barely ??

Is the technology, education, and labor to create the chemical make up of the pill worth thousands ?? How do we have an economy within an economy that is so much more valued than the other, that when the two cross paths it causes catosrophic consequences on a human beings life or lives ?????

It is evil what has been created or by what is going on now in my honest opinion. The greed of man has compromised our principles and our values in which we are to hold sacred in concerns of our fellow human beings. What will God think of us when comes to visit with us, and to sit with us, and to listen to us, otherwise if we have not our brother's and sister's very lives in our best interest, just as he would have us in his best interest ??? We must fix these things, and fix them fast.

/----- If we even mention tort reform the libs become unhinged and jump to the defense of the trial lawyers.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

. Who are the real culprits in it all ??? Name them by group, and then let's work to stop them doing these things.

There are many culprits but the biggest culprit is people like you and me who want the best medical care available and we don't care what it cost, as long as someone else is paying for it. When we have an out patient procedure that takes 10 mins and the hospital bills the insurance company $2,000, do we complain to the hospital, no. However, when we have to wait weeks to get an appointment or have to waist 4 hours sitting in the ER, we certainly complain.

It's not just patients. it's society in general. If a new procedure is found that will reduce the chance of death from .05% to .01% but it cost 10 times as much, the AMA or some other group is going to work toward getting it approved. We require insurance companies to provide coverage to people that are so sick, they would be un-insurable and require the ER to take patients regardless of their ability to pay.

It's also about the risk involved with healthcare. Unlike an automobile repair, there are no guarantees. But when shit happens we look for a culprit and if we can't find one, a lawyer will, usually the doctor or hospital. A drug company or medical device company may spend tens of millions getting a product on the market only to find that a side effect makes the product worthless and they have to recovery those cost on another product.

And then there's government, both federal and state that are always making laws and regulation to make healthcare better which it may or may not but often has a very high price tag.

And finally, there is the cost of medical personnel, 10 years to become a doctor at a cost of a quarter to half million dollars. Registered Nurses, 4 to 6 years at cost $30,000 to $80,000. And then there's the support people, medical technicians, physicians assistants, lab technicians, pharmacologists, social workers, security people, all kinds of specificity maintenance staff and of course insurance and billing people. And finally there's the people on standby or on call that have to be available on a moment's notice because of the life or death conditions that develop throughout the day and night in hospitals.

. All of this don't address an itemized statement that has obscene charges & cost involved or even those mysterious charges that were attempted to be charged, but funny no one can remember the procedure, test or treatment that the charges were for. And why is that ? It's because the charges were Bogus is why. Medicare has been bilked out of millions this way.

I call it creative billing. In many cases service providers have to come up with additional billing in order to service Medicare patients. Recently, one of my Medicare explanation of benefits listed the Medicare approved amount for a chest Xray as $6. It cost more than that for just technician's labor. So they may it up in the cost of the radiologist reading the Xray. My family doctor is paid some ridiculous low rate by Medicare for an office visit so every office visit is an intermediate billing code or first time patient rate.

 

[flacaltenn]

A medicine I could get 2 years ago for $16 cash is now $56.

So I find someone with insurance can get it for $11 and pay them $20.

Such bullshit it is.

Big Pharma is so locked into the government it's not even funny or right

SERIOUSLY -- try the Pharma cards like GoodRx. They fixed a LOT of that. Same thing as having an insurer -- "discount" it for you... No questions. No personal details. No nagging you with emails and advertising.

I've used GoodRx several times. It's a good supplement for most insurance formulates because formulates always leave stuff out that doctors prescribe. However, nothing beats the savings you get by ordering generic equivalents from Canada for US brand name drugs with no US generics. I save about 60% of the US drug price every month on two drugs, over $250 a month.

There you go. You now know more about REAL Pharma pricing than most of Congress. A lot of the conversation about Med inflation is phony, because the MARKET pricing is phony.

Same goes for other med services. The extravagantly high prices people hear have NOTHING to do with the actual COST of the drug or service..

I'm a realist here. DOCTORS and hospitals are hurting from this pricing game as well. Because they are getting BRUTALLY squeezed. Especially by Medicare and MediCaid reimbursements that must be made up by AGAIN -- inflating prices OVER the amounts they actually cost to the consumer.

 

[flacaltenn]

1st.. We have us as human beings (correct), therefore being created by God (correct), and being gifted by God (correct), with our abilities to learn, create, build, and care for the beings and things in which we have control over.. Therefore these things were again given unto us by God (correct), so why do we fail him now ??

2nd.. we have the earth in which is full of natural resources, and is surrounded by the air in which we breath, the water in which we drink, the cycles in which we live by daily, and all things in which God had given us to thrive and survive as human beings upon it, so you tell me how after all that God had granted unto us here, that we can't seem to produce a pill, treatment or medical procedure that saves human lives after all that God had done for us for free, (for a reasonable price to us as human beings) ??

We as a Godly people should absolutely not be putting human beings in a position to choose death over the cost of care at the levels in which it is currently going on in hospitals all across this nation. I mean a pill that cost thousands of dollars when the natural resources it took to create the pill or went into the pill was so miniscule that you can't even see it with the naked eye barely ??

Is the technology, education, and labor to create the chemical make up of the pill worth thousands ?? How do we have an economy within an economy that is so much more valued than the other, that when the two cross paths it causes catosrophic consequences on a human beings life or lives ?????

It is evil what has been created or by what is going on now in my honest opinion. The greed of man has compromised our principles and our values in which we are to hold sacred in concerns of our fellow human beings. What will God think of us when comes to visit with us, and to sit with us, and to listen to us, otherwise if we have not our brother's and sister's very lives in our best interest, just as he would have us in his best interest ??? We must fix these things, and fix them fast.

/----- If we even mention tort reform the libs become unhinged and jump to the defense of the trial lawyers.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

. Who are the real culprits in it all ??? Name them by group, and then let's work to stop them doing these things.

There are many culprits but the biggest culprit is people like you and me who want the best medical care available and we don't care what it cost, as long as someone else is paying for it. When we have an out patient procedure that takes 10 mins and the hospital bills the insurance company $2,000, do we complain to the hospital, no. However, when we have to wait weeks to get an appointment or have to waist 4 hours sitting in the ER, we certainly complain.

It's not just patients. it's society in general. If a new procedure is found that will reduce the chance of death from .05% to .01% but it cost 10 times as much, the AMA or some other group is going to work toward getting it approved. We require insurance companies to provide coverage to people that are so sick, they would be un-insurable and require the ER to take patients regardless of their ability to pay.

It's also about the risk involved with healthcare. Unlike an automobile repair, there are no guarantees. But when shit happens we look for a culprit and if we can't find one, a lawyer will, usually the doctor or hospital. A drug company or medical device company may spend tens of millions getting a product on the market only to find that a side effect makes the product worthless and they have to recovery those cost on another product.

And then there's government, both federal and state that are always making laws and regulation to make healthcare better which it may or may not but often has a very high price tag.

And finally, there is the cost of medical personnel, 10 years to become a doctor at a cost of a quarter to half million dollars. Registered Nurses, 4 to 6 years at cost $30,000 to $80,000. And then there's the support people, medical technicians, physicians assistants, lab technicians, pharmacologists, social workers, security people, all kinds of specificity maintenance staff and of course insurance and billing people. And finally there's the people on standby or on call that have to be available on a moment's notice because of the life or death conditions that develop throughout the day and night in hospitals.

. All of this don't address an itemized statement that has obscene charges & cost involved or even those mysterious charges that were attempted to be charged, but funny no one can remember the procedure, test or treatment that the charges were for. And why is that ? It's because the charges were Bogus is why. Medicare has been bilked out of millions this way.

I call it creative billing. In many cases service providers have to come up with additional billing in order to service Medicare patients. Recently, one of my Medicare explanation of benefits listed the Medicare approved amount for a chest Xray as $6. It cost more than that for just technician's labor. So they may it up in the cost of the radiologist reading the Xray. My family doctor is paid some ridiculous low rate by Medicare for an office visit so every office visit is an intermediate billing code or first time patient rate.

Exactly. And those unpaid costs for the $6 X-ray are just shifted to their RACK rate. And redistributed to all the OTHER insurance contracts that have more available to pay for services.

So as MediCare progressively squeezes that X-ray cost down --- by for example not allowing for rising labor costs and neglect -- The hospital just keeps on RAISING the BILLED costs to every other insurance negotiation..

 

[Flopper]

/----- If we even mention tort reform the libs become unhinged and jump to the defense of the trial lawyers.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

. Who are the real culprits in it all ??? Name them by group, and then let's work to stop them doing these things.

There are many culprits but the biggest culprit is people like you and me who want the best medical care available and we don't care what it cost, as long as someone else is paying for it. When we have an out patient procedure that takes 10 mins and the hospital bills the insurance company $2,000, do we complain to the hospital, no. However, when we have to wait weeks to get an appointment or have to waist 4 hours sitting in the ER, we certainly complain.

It's not just patients. it's society in general. If a new procedure is found that will reduce the chance of death from .05% to .01% but it cost 10 times as much, the AMA or some other group is going to work toward getting it approved. We require insurance companies to provide coverage to people that are so sick, they would be un-insurable and require the ER to take patients regardless of their ability to pay.

It's also about the risk involved with healthcare. Unlike an automobile repair, there are no guarantees. But when shit happens we look for a culprit and if we can't find one, a lawyer will, usually the doctor or hospital. A drug company or medical device company may spend tens of millions getting a product on the market only to find that a side effect makes the product worthless and they have to recovery those cost on another product.

And then there's government, both federal and state that are always making laws and regulation to make healthcare better which it may or may not but often has a very high price tag.

And finally, there is the cost of medical personnel, 10 years to become a doctor at a cost of a quarter to half million dollars. Registered Nurses, 4 to 6 years at cost $30,000 to $80,000. And then there's the support people, medical technicians, physicians assistants, lab technicians, pharmacologists, social workers, security people, all kinds of specificity maintenance staff and of course insurance and billing people. And finally there's the people on standby or on call that have to be available on a moment's notice because of the life or death conditions that develop throughout the day and night in hospitals.

. All of this don't address an itemized statement that has obscene charges & cost involved or even those mysterious charges that were attempted to be charged, but funny no one can remember the procedure, test or treatment that the charges were for. And why is that ? It's because the charges were Bogus is why. Medicare has been bilked out of millions this way.

I call it creative billing. In many cases service providers have to come up with additional billing in order to service Medicare patients. Recently, one of my Medicare explanation of benefits listed the Medicare approved amount for a chest Xray as $6. It cost more than that for just technician's labor. So they may it up in the cost of the radiologist reading the Xray. My family doctor is paid some ridiculous low rate by Medicare for an office visit so every office visit is an intermediate billing code or first time patient rate.

Exactly. And those unpaid costs for the $6 X-ray are just shifted to their RACK rate. And redistributed to all the OTHER insurance contracts that have more available to pay for services.

So as MediCare progressively squeezes that X-ray cost down --- by for example not allowing for rising labor costs and neglect -- The hospital just keeps on RAISING the BILLED costs to every other insurance negotiation..

That rack rate is like a suggested retail price of clothing. Practically no one pays that today.

For example, my wife has a yearly outpatient treatment for osteoporosis which takes about 1 hour. The hospital billing is $6200 which is way overpriced. The Medicare covered amount is $1850 of which Medicare pays $1480. The patient's responsibility is $370, 20%. The hospital writes off the remainder because like most Medicare providers they accept the Medicare approved amount as full payment.

Now suppose my wife were covered by group or individual insurance. Provided the services are in network which most are these days, the insurance company will have a contracted rate with the hospital for all services they render to policy holders. The rate the insurance company pays is determined by contract negotiations and those negotiation are strongly influenced by the Medicare rate.

The problem is Medicare rates are a fee for service which does not really take into account whether the service is effective or not. We pay the healthcare provider for trying to help, not fixing the problem.

 

[flacaltenn]

. Who are the real culprits in it all ??? Name them by group, and then let's work to stop them doing these things.

There are many culprits but the biggest culprit is people like you and me who want the best medical care available and we don't care what it cost, as long as someone else is paying for it. When we have an out patient procedure that takes 10 mins and the hospital bills the insurance company $2,000, do we complain to the hospital, no. However, when we have to wait weeks to get an appointment or have to waist 4 hours sitting in the ER, we certainly complain.

It's not just patients. it's society in general. If a new procedure is found that will reduce the chance of death from .05% to .01% but it cost 10 times as much, the AMA or some other group is going to work toward getting it approved. We require insurance companies to provide coverage to people that are so sick, they would be un-insurable and require the ER to take patients regardless of their ability to pay.

It's also about the risk involved with healthcare. Unlike an automobile repair, there are no guarantees. But when shit happens we look for a culprit and if we can't find one, a lawyer will, usually the doctor or hospital. A drug company or medical device company may spend tens of millions getting a product on the market only to find that a side effect makes the product worthless and they have to recovery those cost on another product.

And then there's government, both federal and state that are always making laws and regulation to make healthcare better which it may or may not but often has a very high price tag.

And finally, there is the cost of medical personnel, 10 years to become a doctor at a cost of a quarter to half million dollars. Registered Nurses, 4 to 6 years at cost $30,000 to $80,000. And then there's the support people, medical technicians, physicians assistants, lab technicians, pharmacologists, social workers, security people, all kinds of specificity maintenance staff and of course insurance and billing people. And finally there's the people on standby or on call that have to be available on a moment's notice because of the life or death conditions that develop throughout the day and night in hospitals.

. All of this don't address an itemized statement that has obscene charges & cost involved or even those mysterious charges that were attempted to be charged, but funny no one can remember the procedure, test or treatment that the charges were for. And why is that ? It's because the charges were Bogus is why. Medicare has been bilked out of millions this way.

I call it creative billing. In many cases service providers have to come up with additional billing in order to service Medicare patients. Recently, one of my Medicare explanation of benefits listed the Medicare approved amount for a chest Xray as $6. It cost more than that for just technician's labor. So they may it up in the cost of the radiologist reading the Xray. My family doctor is paid some ridiculous low rate by Medicare for an office visit so every office visit is an intermediate billing code or first time patient rate.

Exactly. And those unpaid costs for the $6 X-ray are just shifted to their RACK rate. And redistributed to all the OTHER insurance contracts that have more available to pay for services.

So as MediCare progressively squeezes that X-ray cost down --- by for example not allowing for rising labor costs and neglect -- The hospital just keeps on RAISING the BILLED costs to every other insurance negotiation..

That rack rate is like a suggested retail price of clothing. Practically no one pays that today.

For example, my wife has a yearly outpatient treatment for osteoporosis which takes about 1 hour. The hospital billing is $6200 which is way overpriced. The Medicare covered amount is $1850 of which Medicare pays $1480. The patient's responsibility is $370, 20%. The hospital writes off the remainder because like most Medicare providers they accept the Medicare approved amount as full payment.

Now suppose my wife were covered by group or individual insurance. Provided the services are in network which most are these days, the insurance company will have a contracted rate with the hospital for all services they render to policy holders. The rate the insurance company pays is determined by contract negotiations and those negotiation are strongly influenced by the Medicare rate.

The problem is Medicare rates are a fee for service which does not really take into account whether the service is effective or not. We pay the healthcare provider for trying to help, not fixing the problem.

Too many media and politicians FIXATED on "high costs". When in reality, It's the INSURANCE cost that's become the problem. Because they KNOW -- they are beating the providers into submission and WANT the consumers to see the "Retail Price" to CONVINCE THE CONSUMERS -- that only the insurers can protect them from the devious and greedy medical community.

When in REALITY -- EVERYONE should know what the REAL costs are. The patients, the doctors, the policy wonks and the media. They don't right now. So it's all senseless shouting. Folks with MSAs KNOW the real costs of services and have figured out how to negotiate their OWN discounts. Multiply that by a million "negotiations" per year and pretty soon -- the "high costs of health care" WONT REQUIRE "inflated insurance prices" --- just as "protection money"...

 

[beagle9]

There are many culprits but the biggest culprit is people like you and me who want the best medical care available and we don't care what it cost, as long as someone else is paying for it. When we have an out patient procedure that takes 10 mins and the hospital bills the insurance company $2,000, do we complain to the hospital, no. However, when we have to wait weeks to get an appointment or have to waist 4 hours sitting in the ER, we certainly complain.

It's not just patients. it's society in general. If a new procedure is found that will reduce the chance of death from .05% to .01% but it cost 10 times as much, the AMA or some other group is going to work toward getting it approved. We require insurance companies to provide coverage to people that are so sick, they would be un-insurable and require the ER to take patients regardless of their ability to pay.

It's also about the risk involved with healthcare. Unlike an automobile repair, there are no guarantees. But when shit happens we look for a culprit and if we can't find one, a lawyer will, usually the doctor or hospital. A drug company or medical device company may spend tens of millions getting a product on the market only to find that a side effect makes the product worthless and they have to recovery those cost on another product.

And then there's government, both federal and state that are always making laws and regulation to make healthcare better which it may or may not but often has a very high price tag.

And finally, there is the cost of medical personnel, 10 years to become a doctor at a cost of a quarter to half million dollars. Registered Nurses, 4 to 6 years at cost $30,000 to $80,000. And then there's the support people, medical technicians, physicians assistants, lab technicians, pharmacologists, social workers, security people, all kinds of specificity maintenance staff and of course insurance and billing people. And finally there's the people on standby or on call that have to be available on a moment's notice because of the life or death conditions that develop throughout the day and night in hospitals.

. All of this don't address an itemized statement that has obscene charges & cost involved or even those mysterious charges that were attempted to be charged, but funny no one can remember the procedure, test or treatment that the charges were for. And why is that ? It's because the charges were Bogus is why. Medicare has been bilked out of millions this way.

I call it creative billing. In many cases service providers have to come up with additional billing in order to service Medicare patients. Recently, one of my Medicare explanation of benefits listed the Medicare approved amount for a chest Xray as $6. It cost more than that for just technician's labor. So they may it up in the cost of the radiologist reading the Xray. My family doctor is paid some ridiculous low rate by Medicare for an office visit so every office visit is an intermediate billing code or first time patient rate.

Exactly. And those unpaid costs for the $6 X-ray are just shifted to their RACK rate. And redistributed to all the OTHER insurance contracts that have more available to pay for services.

So as MediCare progressively squeezes that X-ray cost down --- by for example not allowing for rising labor costs and neglect -- The hospital just keeps on RAISING the BILLED costs to every other insurance negotiation..

That rack rate is like a suggested retail price of clothing. Practically no one pays that today.

For example, my wife has a yearly outpatient treatment for osteoporosis which takes about 1 hour. The hospital billing is $6200 which is way overpriced. The Medicare covered amount is $1850 of which Medicare pays $1480. The patient's responsibility is $370, 20%. The hospital writes off the remainder because like most Medicare providers they accept the Medicare approved amount as full payment.

Now suppose my wife were covered by group or individual insurance. Provided the services are in network which most are these days, the insurance company will have a contracted rate with the hospital for all services they render to policy holders. The rate the insurance company pays is determined by contract negotiations and those negotiation are strongly influenced by the Medicare rate.

The problem is Medicare rates are a fee for service which does not really take into account whether the service is effective or not. We pay the healthcare provider for trying to help, not fixing the problem.

Too many media and politicians FIXATED on "high costs". When in reality, It's the INSURANCE cost that's become the problem. Because they KNOW -- they are beating the providers into submission and WANT the consumers to see the "Retail Price" to CONVINCE THE CONSUMERS -- that only the insurers can protect them from the devious and greedy medical community.

When in REALITY -- EVERYONE should know what the REAL costs are. The patients, the doctors, the policy wonks and the media. They don't right now. So it's all senseless shouting. Folks with MSAs KNOW the real costs of services and have figured out how to negotiate their OWN discounts. Multiply that by a million "negotiations" per year and pretty soon -- the "high costs of health care" WONT REQUIRE "inflated insurance prices" --- just as "protection money"...

. Would it not be that if the medical industry would charge ethical prices to begin with, then wouldn't the insureres up the amount of coverage to their customers, and give them more options within their coverage ??

 

[Flopper]

There are many culprits but the biggest culprit is people like you and me who want the best medical care available and we don't care what it cost, as long as someone else is paying for it. When we have an out patient procedure that takes 10 mins and the hospital bills the insurance company $2,000, do we complain to the hospital, no. However, when we have to wait weeks to get an appointment or have to waist 4 hours sitting in the ER, we certainly complain.

It's not just patients. it's society in general. If a new procedure is found that will reduce the chance of death from .05% to .01% but it cost 10 times as much, the AMA or some other group is going to work toward getting it approved. We require insurance companies to provide coverage to people that are so sick, they would be un-insurable and require the ER to take patients regardless of their ability to pay.

It's also about the risk involved with healthcare. Unlike an automobile repair, there are no guarantees. But when shit happens we look for a culprit and if we can't find one, a lawyer will, usually the doctor or hospital. A drug company or medical device company may spend tens of millions getting a product on the market only to find that a side effect makes the product worthless and they have to recovery those cost on another product.

And then there's government, both federal and state that are always making laws and regulation to make healthcare better which it may or may not but often has a very high price tag.

And finally, there is the cost of medical personnel, 10 years to become a doctor at a cost of a quarter to half million dollars. Registered Nurses, 4 to 6 years at cost $30,000 to $80,000. And then there's the support people, medical technicians, physicians assistants, lab technicians, pharmacologists, social workers, security people, all kinds of specificity maintenance staff and of course insurance and billing people. And finally there's the people on standby or on call that have to be available on a moment's notice because of the life or death conditions that develop throughout the day and night in hospitals.

. All of this don't address an itemized statement that has obscene charges & cost involved or even those mysterious charges that were attempted to be charged, but funny no one can remember the procedure, test or treatment that the charges were for. And why is that ? It's because the charges were Bogus is why. Medicare has been bilked out of millions this way.

I call it creative billing. In many cases service providers have to come up with additional billing in order to service Medicare patients. Recently, one of my Medicare explanation of benefits listed the Medicare approved amount for a chest Xray as $6. It cost more than that for just technician's labor. So they may it up in the cost of the radiologist reading the Xray. My family doctor is paid some ridiculous low rate by Medicare for an office visit so every office visit is an intermediate billing code or first time patient rate.

Exactly. And those unpaid costs for the $6 X-ray are just shifted to their RACK rate. And redistributed to all the OTHER insurance contracts that have more available to pay for services.

So as MediCare progressively squeezes that X-ray cost down --- by for example not allowing for rising labor costs and neglect -- The hospital just keeps on RAISING the BILLED costs to every other insurance negotiation..

That rack rate is like a suggested retail price of clothing. Practically no one pays that today.

For example, my wife has a yearly outpatient treatment for osteoporosis which takes about 1 hour. The hospital billing is $6200 which is way overpriced. The Medicare covered amount is $1850 of which Medicare pays $1480. The patient's responsibility is $370, 20%. The hospital writes off the remainder because like most Medicare providers they accept the Medicare approved amount as full payment.

Now suppose my wife were covered by group or individual insurance. Provided the services are in network which most are these days, the insurance company will have a contracted rate with the hospital for all services they render to policy holders. The rate the insurance company pays is determined by contract negotiations and those negotiation are strongly influenced by the Medicare rate.

The problem is Medicare rates are a fee for service which does not really take into account whether the service is effective or not. We pay the healthcare provider for trying to help, not fixing the problem.

Too many media and politicians FIXATED on "high costs". When in reality, It's the INSURANCE cost that's become the problem. Because they KNOW -- they are beating the providers into submission and WANT the consumers to see the "Retail Price" to CONVINCE THE CONSUMERS -- that only the insurers can protect them from the devious and greedy medical community.

When in REALITY -- EVERYONE should know what the REAL costs are. The patients, the doctors, the policy wonks and the media. They don't right now. So it's all senseless shouting. Folks with MSAs KNOW the real costs of services and have figured out how to negotiate their OWN discounts. Multiply that by a million "negotiations" per year and pretty soon -- the "high costs of health care" WONT REQUIRE "inflated insurance prices" --- just as "protection money"...

Yep, Insurer show how much money their customers are saving by showing them these trumped up costs. For profit hospitals use it to try to justify tax write offs. Nonprofits use it to show benefactors how low their reimbursements are. Sadly, hospitals will try to collect this from their customers that don't have insurance.

 

[Flopper]

. All of this don't address an itemized statement that has obscene charges & cost involved or even those mysterious charges that were attempted to be charged, but funny no one can remember the procedure, test or treatment that the charges were for. And why is that ? It's because the charges were Bogus is why. Medicare has been bilked out of millions this way.

I call it creative billing. In many cases service providers have to come up with additional billing in order to service Medicare patients. Recently, one of my Medicare explanation of benefits listed the Medicare approved amount for a chest Xray as $6. It cost more than that for just technician's labor. So they may it up in the cost of the radiologist reading the Xray. My family doctor is paid some ridiculous low rate by Medicare for an office visit so every office visit is an intermediate billing code or first time patient rate.

Exactly. And those unpaid costs for the $6 X-ray are just shifted to their RACK rate. And redistributed to all the OTHER insurance contracts that have more available to pay for services.

So as MediCare progressively squeezes that X-ray cost down --- by for example not allowing for rising labor costs and neglect -- The hospital just keeps on RAISING the BILLED costs to every other insurance negotiation..

That rack rate is like a suggested retail price of clothing. Practically no one pays that today.

For example, my wife has a yearly outpatient treatment for osteoporosis which takes about 1 hour. The hospital billing is $6200 which is way overpriced. The Medicare covered amount is $1850 of which Medicare pays $1480. The patient's responsibility is $370, 20%. The hospital writes off the remainder because like most Medicare providers they accept the Medicare approved amount as full payment.

Now suppose my wife were covered by group or individual insurance. Provided the services are in network which most are these days, the insurance company will have a contracted rate with the hospital for all services they render to policy holders. The rate the insurance company pays is determined by contract negotiations and those negotiation are strongly influenced by the Medicare rate.

The problem is Medicare rates are a fee for service which does not really take into account whether the service is effective or not. We pay the healthcare provider for trying to help, not fixing the problem.

Too many media and politicians FIXATED on "high costs". When in reality, It's the INSURANCE cost that's become the problem. Because they KNOW -- they are beating the providers into submission and WANT the consumers to see the "Retail Price" to CONVINCE THE CONSUMERS -- that only the insurers can protect them from the devious and greedy medical community.

When in REALITY -- EVERYONE should know what the REAL costs are. The patients, the doctors, the policy wonks and the media. They don't right now. So it's all senseless shouting. Folks with MSAs KNOW the real costs of services and have figured out how to negotiate their OWN discounts. Multiply that by a million "negotiations" per year and pretty soon -- the "high costs of health care" WONT REQUIRE "inflated insurance prices" --- just as "protection money"...

. Would it not be that if the medical industry would charge ethical prices to begin with, then wouldn't the insureres up the amount of coverage to their customers, and give them more options within their coverage ??

Insurers are well are aware of these Trumped up cost. Most insurance, individual or group pays based on negotiated rates with their healthcare providers. The Medicare rates which are set based on actual costs are usually a starting point in negotiations.

 

[beagle9]

I call it creative billing. In many cases service providers have to come up with additional billing in order to service Medicare patients. Recently, one of my Medicare explanation of benefits listed the Medicare approved amount for a chest Xray as $6. It cost more than that for just technician's labor. So they may it up in the cost of the radiologist reading the Xray. My family doctor is paid some ridiculous low rate by Medicare for an office visit so every office visit is an intermediate billing code or first time patient rate.

Exactly. And those unpaid costs for the $6 X-ray are just shifted to their RACK rate. And redistributed to all the OTHER insurance contracts that have more available to pay for services.

So as MediCare progressively squeezes that X-ray cost down --- by for example not allowing for rising labor costs and neglect -- The hospital just keeps on RAISING the BILLED costs to every other insurance negotiation..

That rack rate is like a suggested retail price of clothing. Practically no one pays that today.

For example, my wife has a yearly outpatient treatment for osteoporosis which takes about 1 hour. The hospital billing is $6200 which is way overpriced. The Medicare covered amount is $1850 of which Medicare pays $1480. The patient's responsibility is $370, 20%. The hospital writes off the remainder because like most Medicare providers they accept the Medicare approved amount as full payment.

Now suppose my wife were covered by group or individual insurance. Provided the services are in network which most are these days, the insurance company will have a contracted rate with the hospital for all services they render to policy holders. The rate the insurance company pays is determined by contract negotiations and those negotiation are strongly influenced by the Medicare rate.

The problem is Medicare rates are a fee for service which does not really take into account whether the service is effective or not. We pay the healthcare provider for trying to help, not fixing the problem.

Too many media and politicians FIXATED on "high costs". When in reality, It's the INSURANCE cost that's become the problem. Because they KNOW -- they are beating the providers into submission and WANT the consumers to see the "Retail Price" to CONVINCE THE CONSUMERS -- that only the insurers can protect them from the devious and greedy medical community.

When in REALITY -- EVERYONE should know what the REAL costs are. The patients, the doctors, the policy wonks and the media. They don't right now. So it's all senseless shouting. Folks with MSAs KNOW the real costs of services and have figured out how to negotiate their OWN discounts. Multiply that by a million "negotiations" per year and pretty soon -- the "high costs of health care" WONT REQUIRE "inflated insurance prices" --- just as "protection money"...

. Would it not be that if the medical industry would charge ethical prices to begin with, then wouldn't the insureres up the amount of coverage to their customers, and give them more options within their coverage ??

Insurers are well are aware of these Trumped up cost. Most insurance, individual or group pays based on negotiated rates with their healthcare providers. The Medicare rates which are set based on actual costs are usually a starting point in negotiations.

. Ok, but does this not cause the healthcare provider (out of fear), that the negotiation may go to the extreme on behalf of the insurance company, (who may be playing super hard ball against them in the negotiations), to then cause the patient to suffer the fall out in the ways of poor quality care given now by the provider because it feels it won't get the amount it was asking for ?? And doesn't the patient also suffer the situation of the provider rolling the cost (in which the insurance company refuses to pay), over on to them in which the patients do not have the resources to protect themselves against a provider trying to gouge either the insurer or them as the insured ??

 

[flacaltenn]

Exactly. And those unpaid costs for the $6 X-ray are just shifted to their RACK rate. And redistributed to all the OTHER insurance contracts that have more available to pay for services.

So as MediCare progressively squeezes that X-ray cost down --- by for example not allowing for rising labor costs and neglect -- The hospital just keeps on RAISING the BILLED costs to every other insurance negotiation..

That rack rate is like a suggested retail price of clothing. Practically no one pays that today.

For example, my wife has a yearly outpatient treatment for osteoporosis which takes about 1 hour. The hospital billing is $6200 which is way overpriced. The Medicare covered amount is $1850 of which Medicare pays $1480. The patient's responsibility is $370, 20%. The hospital writes off the remainder because like most Medicare providers they accept the Medicare approved amount as full payment.

Now suppose my wife were covered by group or individual insurance. Provided the services are in network which most are these days, the insurance company will have a contracted rate with the hospital for all services they render to policy holders. The rate the insurance company pays is determined by contract negotiations and those negotiation are strongly influenced by the Medicare rate.

The problem is Medicare rates are a fee for service which does not really take into account whether the service is effective or not. We pay the healthcare provider for trying to help, not fixing the problem.

Too many media and politicians FIXATED on "high costs". When in reality, It's the INSURANCE cost that's become the problem. Because they KNOW -- they are beating the providers into submission and WANT the consumers to see the "Retail Price" to CONVINCE THE CONSUMERS -- that only the insurers can protect them from the devious and greedy medical community.

When in REALITY -- EVERYONE should know what the REAL costs are. The patients, the doctors, the policy wonks and the media. They don't right now. So it's all senseless shouting. Folks with MSAs KNOW the real costs of services and have figured out how to negotiate their OWN discounts. Multiply that by a million "negotiations" per year and pretty soon -- the "high costs of health care" WONT REQUIRE "inflated insurance prices" --- just as "protection money"...

. Would it not be that if the medical industry would charge ethical prices to begin with, then wouldn't the insureres up the amount of coverage to their customers, and give them more options within their coverage ??

Insurers are well are aware of these Trumped up cost. Most insurance, individual or group pays based on negotiated rates with their healthcare providers. The Medicare rates which are set based on actual costs are usually a starting point in negotiations.

. Ok, but does this not cause the healthcare provider (out of fear), that the negotiation may go to the extreme on behalf of the insurance company, (who may be playing super hard ball against them in the negotiations), to then cause the patient to suffer the fall out in the ways of poor quality care given now by the provider because it feels it won't get the amount it was asking for ?? And doesn't the patient also suffer the situation of the provider rolling the cost (in which the insurance company refuses to pay), over on to them in which the patients do not have the resources to protect themselves against a provider trying to gouge either the insurer or them as the insured ??

People and providers are ALREADY suffering. As doctors and hospitals lose tons of money on MediCaid/Medicare and start refusing to take new cases. These "hidden costs" are a HUGE part of escalating insurance...

 

[beagle9]

That rack rate is like a suggested retail price of clothing. Practically no one pays that today.

For example, my wife has a yearly outpatient treatment for osteoporosis which takes about 1 hour. The hospital billing is $6200 which is way overpriced. The Medicare covered amount is $1850 of which Medicare pays $1480. The patient's responsibility is $370, 20%. The hospital writes off the remainder because like most Medicare providers they accept the Medicare approved amount as full payment.

Now suppose my wife were covered by group or individual insurance. Provided the services are in network which most are these days, the insurance company will have a contracted rate with the hospital for all services they render to policy holders. The rate the insurance company pays is determined by contract negotiations and those negotiation are strongly influenced by the Medicare rate.

The problem is Medicare rates are a fee for service which does not really take into account whether the service is effective or not. We pay the healthcare provider for trying to help, not fixing the problem.

Too many media and politicians FIXATED on "high costs". When in reality, It's the INSURANCE cost that's become the problem. Because they KNOW -- they are beating the providers into submission and WANT the consumers to see the "Retail Price" to CONVINCE THE CONSUMERS -- that only the insurers can protect them from the devious and greedy medical community.

When in REALITY -- EVERYONE should know what the REAL costs are. The patients, the doctors, the policy wonks and the media. They don't right now. So it's all senseless shouting. Folks with MSAs KNOW the real costs of services and have figured out how to negotiate their OWN discounts. Multiply that by a million "negotiations" per year and pretty soon -- the "high costs of health care" WONT REQUIRE "inflated insurance prices" --- just as "protection money"...

. Would it not be that if the medical industry would charge ethical prices to begin with, then wouldn't the insureres up the amount of coverage to their customers, and give them more options within their coverage ??

Insurers are well are aware of these Trumped up cost. Most insurance, individual or group pays based on negotiated rates with their healthcare providers. The Medicare rates which are set based on actual costs are usually a starting point in negotiations.

. Ok, but does this not cause the healthcare provider (out of fear), that the negotiation may go to the extreme on behalf of the insurance company, (who may be playing super hard ball against them in the negotiations), to then cause the patient to suffer the fall out in the ways of poor quality care given now by the provider because it feels it won't get the amount it was asking for ?? And doesn't the patient also suffer the situation of the provider rolling the cost (in which the insurance company refuses to pay), over on to them in which the patients do not have the resources to protect themselves against a provider trying to gouge either the insurer or them as the insured ??

People and providers are ALREADY suffering. As doctors and hospitals lose tons of money on MediCaid/Medicare and start refusing to take new cases. These "hidden costs" are a HUGE part of escalating insurance...

. My mom was given up on in a hospital, and was basically left to die in the hospital... Sadly the hospital lied about her condition, and then they acted as if she was going to be ready for rehab where they moved her to the rehab floor, and then forced her to get up on her own after only 3 weeks in the facility, where they took all available monitoring equipment away from her, and this is where she then died as a result of the entire fiasco...... How do you die in a hospital where they have critical care for the critically ill patients, but then they just give up on someone without saying they gave up on them or why not just say that the person only had a short amount of time left to live, instead of misleading a family about it ???? Take any hospital let's say ok, now wouldn't they or shouldn't they tell the family members about a person that is dying ?? A nurse actually broke the code of secrecy to say, "they won't tell y'all, but I will, your mother is laying in their dying" ......... Ok if she's laying in their dying, then why were they forcing her to get up, and to act as if she was eligible for rehabilitation with no monitoring equipment being used upon her anymore ?? Why suffer a person or family in this way, otherwise if they knew better about it that she was dying ?? I saw it as cruel and unusual punishment to everyone involved in the situation. God bless her soul... We love ya mom.. Amen!!....... I can talk about it now, as it has been about two years since her passing. Why would a hospital mislead a family in that way ?? The whole service she got there was terrible, except for some of the nurses who looked after her... I know I wouldn't want to go to a place like that if I get sick. Sad situation it was..... Wouldn't wish that anyone should go through that.

 

[flacaltenn]

Too many media and politicians FIXATED on "high costs". When in reality, It's the INSURANCE cost that's become the problem. Because they KNOW -- they are beating the providers into submission and WANT the consumers to see the "Retail Price" to CONVINCE THE CONSUMERS -- that only the insurers can protect them from the devious and greedy medical community.

When in REALITY -- EVERYONE should know what the REAL costs are. The patients, the doctors, the policy wonks and the media. They don't right now. So it's all senseless shouting. Folks with MSAs KNOW the real costs of services and have figured out how to negotiate their OWN discounts. Multiply that by a million "negotiations" per year and pretty soon -- the "high costs of health care" WONT REQUIRE "inflated insurance prices" --- just as "protection money"...

. Would it not be that if the medical industry would charge ethical prices to begin with, then wouldn't the insureres up the amount of coverage to their customers, and give them more options within their coverage ??

Insurers are well are aware of these Trumped up cost. Most insurance, individual or group pays based on negotiated rates with their healthcare providers. The Medicare rates which are set based on actual costs are usually a starting point in negotiations.

. Ok, but does this not cause the healthcare provider (out of fear), that the negotiation may go to the extreme on behalf of the insurance company, (who may be playing super hard ball against them in the negotiations), to then cause the patient to suffer the fall out in the ways of poor quality care given now by the provider because it feels it won't get the amount it was asking for ?? And doesn't the patient also suffer the situation of the provider rolling the cost (in which the insurance company refuses to pay), over on to them in which the patients do not have the resources to protect themselves against a provider trying to gouge either the insurer or them as the insured ??

People and providers are ALREADY suffering. As doctors and hospitals lose tons of money on MediCaid/Medicare and start refusing to take new cases. These "hidden costs" are a HUGE part of escalating insurance...

. My mom was given up on in a hospital, and was basically left to die in the hospital... Sadly the hospital lied about her condition, and then they acted as if she was going to be ready for rehab where they moved her to the rehab floor, and then forced her to get up on her own after only 3 weeks in the facility, where they took all available monitoring equipment away from her, and this is where she then died as a result of the entire fiasco...... How do you die in a hospital where they have critical care for the critically ill patients, but then they just give up on someone without saying they gave up on them or why not just say that the person only had a short amount of time left to live, instead of misleading a family about it ???? Take any hospital let's say ok, now wouldn't they or shouldn't they tell the family members about a person that is dying ?? A nurse actually broke the code of secrecy to say, "they won't tell y'all, but I will, your mother is laying in their dying" ......... Ok if she's laying in their dying, then why were they forcing her to get up, and to act as if she was eligible for rehabilitation with no monitoring equipment being used upon her anymore ?? Why suffer a person or family in this way, otherwise if they knew better about it that she was dying ?? I saw it as cruel and unusual punishment to everyone involved in the situation. God bless her soul... We love ya mom.. Amen!!....... I can talk about it now, as it has been about two years since her passing. Why would a hospital mislead a family in that way ?? The whole service she got there was terrible, except for some of the nurses who looked after her... I know I wouldn't want to go to a place like that if I get sick. Sad situation it was..... Wouldn't wish that anyone should go through that.

It's hard. And NOBODY should be left alone in a hospital. Things go wrong all the time. I've caught several errors on family cases that needed to be corrected. And you can't do real advocacy without consults with the doctor. Always designate SOMEONE as your Med Power of Atty before you sign in...

 

[Flopper]

Exactly. And those unpaid costs for the $6 X-ray are just shifted to their RACK rate. And redistributed to all the OTHER insurance contracts that have more available to pay for services.

So as MediCare progressively squeezes that X-ray cost down --- by for example not allowing for rising labor costs and neglect -- The hospital just keeps on RAISING the BILLED costs to every other insurance negotiation..

That rack rate is like a suggested retail price of clothing. Practically no one pays that today.

For example, my wife has a yearly outpatient treatment for osteoporosis which takes about 1 hour. The hospital billing is $6200 which is way overpriced. The Medicare covered amount is $1850 of which Medicare pays $1480. The patient's responsibility is $370, 20%. The hospital writes off the remainder because like most Medicare providers they accept the Medicare approved amount as full payment.

Now suppose my wife were covered by group or individual insurance. Provided the services are in network which most are these days, the insurance company will have a contracted rate with the hospital for all services they render to policy holders. The rate the insurance company pays is determined by contract negotiations and those negotiation are strongly influenced by the Medicare rate.

The problem is Medicare rates are a fee for service which does not really take into account whether the service is effective or not. We pay the healthcare provider for trying to help, not fixing the problem.

Too many media and politicians FIXATED on "high costs". When in reality, It's the INSURANCE cost that's become the problem. Because they KNOW -- they are beating the providers into submission and WANT the consumers to see the "Retail Price" to CONVINCE THE CONSUMERS -- that only the insurers can protect them from the devious and greedy medical community.

When in REALITY -- EVERYONE should know what the REAL costs are. The patients, the doctors, the policy wonks and the media. They don't right now. So it's all senseless shouting. Folks with MSAs KNOW the real costs of services and have figured out how to negotiate their OWN discounts. Multiply that by a million "negotiations" per year and pretty soon -- the "high costs of health care" WONT REQUIRE "inflated insurance prices" --- just as "protection money"...

. Would it not be that if the medical industry would charge ethical prices to begin with, then wouldn't the insureres up the amount of coverage to their customers, and give them more options within their coverage ??

Insurers are well are aware of these Trumped up cost. Most insurance, individual or group pays based on negotiated rates with their healthcare providers. The Medicare rates which are set based on actual costs are usually a starting point in negotiations.

. Ok, but does this not cause the healthcare provider (out of fear), that the negotiation may go to the extreme on behalf of the insurance company, (who may be playing super hard ball against them in the negotiations), to then cause the patient to suffer the fall out in the ways of poor quality care given now by the provider because it feels it won't get the amount it was asking for ?? And doesn't the patient also suffer the situation of the provider rolling the cost (in which the insurance company refuses to pay), over on to them in which the patients do not have the resources to protect themselves against a provider trying to gouge either the insurer or them as the insured ??

Most doctors are either a member a group or work for a clinic that arranges membership in most of the insurance networks in the area so not being a member of one that pays low rates is not a problem.

Like most negotiations it boils down to supply and demand. If there is one general hospital in the town and the insurance company needs coverage in that area, then that hospital will be in the driver's seat and the insurance company will end up paying above average rates. However, if a small clinic of eye doctors is trying to become part of an insurance companies network and the company already has lots eye doctors in the area, the chances are that clinic will not get very good rates. One of the reasons small private practices are disappearing is there inability to negotiate good rates with large insurance companies. When it comes to insurance companies, size matters.

Today most people with individual or group insurance stay in the insurance company's network. Generally that means the healthcare provider and insurance company work together to make sure all procedures are covered before they are performed so there are no surprises. Since Obamacare, most every procedure a doctor performs is covered so that's not the problem it once was. For most people that go out of network, they will pay more, and they are more likely to have charges that are not covered, particularly facility fees. Insurance companies will not pay these fees and generally not allow their providers to charge them to the their in network patients.

I had some advice I got a few years ago about insurance companies and providers which I think is pretty good. Choose a company with a large network in your area. Stay in network. If you can get all your medically care from one healthcare provider, say a large hospital and clinic, you'll find that you will have a lot less problems with billing and you will generally get better care than having a dozen independent healthcare providers because information sharing is hard among independents and services won't be coordinated.

Sorry about long reply. I get wound up and can't stop.

 

[Flopper]

. Would it not be that if the medical industry would charge ethical prices to begin with, then wouldn't the insureres up the amount of coverage to their customers, and give them more options within their coverage ??

Insurers are well are aware of these Trumped up cost. Most insurance, individual or group pays based on negotiated rates with their healthcare providers. The Medicare rates which are set based on actual costs are usually a starting point in negotiations.

. Ok, but does this not cause the healthcare provider (out of fear), that the negotiation may go to the extreme on behalf of the insurance company, (who may be playing super hard ball against them in the negotiations), to then cause the patient to suffer the fall out in the ways of poor quality care given now by the provider because it feels it won't get the amount it was asking for ?? And doesn't the patient also suffer the situation of the provider rolling the cost (in which the insurance company refuses to pay), over on to them in which the patients do not have the resources to protect themselves against a provider trying to gouge either the insurer or them as the insured ??

People and providers are ALREADY suffering. As doctors and hospitals lose tons of money on MediCaid/Medicare and start refusing to take new cases. These "hidden costs" are a HUGE part of escalating insurance...

. My mom was given up on in a hospital, and was basically left to die in the hospital... Sadly the hospital lied about her condition, and then they acted as if she was going to be ready for rehab where they moved her to the rehab floor, and then forced her to get up on her own after only 3 weeks in the facility, where they took all available monitoring equipment away from her, and this is where she then died as a result of the entire fiasco...... How do you die in a hospital where they have critical care for the critically ill patients, but then they just give up on someone without saying they gave up on them or why not just say that the person only had a short amount of time left to live, instead of misleading a family about it ???? Take any hospital let's say ok, now wouldn't they or shouldn't they tell the family members about a person that is dying ?? A nurse actually broke the code of secrecy to say, "they won't tell y'all, but I will, your mother is laying in their dying" ......... Ok if she's laying in their dying, then why were they forcing her to get up, and to act as if she was eligible for rehabilitation with no monitoring equipment being used upon her anymore ?? Why suffer a person or family in this way, otherwise if they knew better about it that she was dying ?? I saw it as cruel and unusual punishment to everyone involved in the situation. God bless her soul... We love ya mom.. Amen!!....... I can talk about it now, as it has been about two years since her passing. Why would a hospital mislead a family in that way ?? The whole service she got there was terrible, except for some of the nurses who looked after her... I know I wouldn't want to go to a place like that if I get sick. Sad situation it was..... Wouldn't wish that anyone should go through that.

It's hard. And NOBODY should be left alone in a hospital. Things go wrong all the time. I've caught several errors on family cases that needed to be corrected. And you can't do real advocacy without consults with the doctor. Always designate SOMEONE as your Med Power of Atty before you sign in...

That is so true. Everyone with a lot healthcare problems needs a healthcare advocate. Someone that will talk to the doctors and nurses. Ask questions and point out problems. Ask why a medication is needed? What do they hope to learn from a test? Why is this procedure being done. And most important getting straight answers from the doctor who is coordinating care. Often people that are very ill, having a lot procedures and drugs get confused and don't have the energy to do this.

 

[Eloy]

1st.. We have us as human beings (correct), therefore being created by God (correct), and being gifted by God (correct), with our abilities to learn, create, build, and care for the beings and things in which we have control over.. Therefore these things were again given unto us by God (correct), so why do we fail him now ??

2nd.. we have the earth in which is full of natural resources, and is surrounded by the air in which we breath, the water in which we drink, the cycles in which we live by daily, and all things in which God had given us to thrive and survive as human beings upon it, so you tell me how after all that God had granted unto us here, that we can't seem to produce a pill, treatment or medical procedure that saves human lives after all that God had done for us for free, (for a reasonable price to us as human beings) ??

We as a Godly people should absolutely not be putting human beings in a position to choose death over the cost of care at the levels in which it is currently going on in hospitals all across this nation. I mean a pill that cost thousands of dollars when the natural resources it took to create the pill or went into the pill was so miniscule that you can't even see it with the naked eye barely ??

Is the technology, education, and labor to create the chemical make up of the pill worth thousands ?? How do we have an economy within an economy that is so much more valued than the other, that when the two cross paths it causes catosrophic consequences on a human beings life or lives ?????

It is evil what has been created or by what is going on now in my honest opinion. The greed of man has compromised our principles and our values in which we are to hold sacred in concerns of our fellow human beings. What will God think of us when comes to visit with us, and to sit with us, and to listen to us, otherwise if we have not our brother's and sister's very lives in our best interest, just as he would have us in his best interest ??? We must fix these things, and fix them fast.

Government.

To get a medical device or drug approved, you will spend tens of millions, sometimes hundreds of millions developing it. Then you get to go thru the gauntlet of getting it approved. Drugs you are looking at 10 years of testing and spending hundreds of millions in the process.

So who wants to invest half a billion dollars in the slim chance it will pay off in 10 years and more likely go down the toilet? The only way you do that is by offering a potential huge reward at the end.

And no, I am not saying there should be no approval process. But there is huge room to streamline and reduce costs while still proving its safety.

THEN once approved you get sued by every Tom, Dick and Harry. Tom says it made his nose hair grow faster so he wants 10 million dollars. Dick says my back still hurts even after taking your medicine, so he wants 30 million. Harry says his dog ate your pill he dropped on the floor and the dog died, so he wants 5 million.

Again, I'm not saying there should be no litigation, but it has to be kept reasonable.

THAT is why healthcare costs are so high.

. Ok, so what is the solutions to it all ????? So far the Republicans can't figure it out, but why ?

I told you. Approval process and litigation need to be reformed.

. Ok, so who is stopping this reform, and why ??

Socialized medical care is the fairest and most ethical but it is resisted by capitalists who prefer profits for insurance corporations and pharmaceutical companies over the health of the nation.

 

[Flopper]

Too many media and politicians FIXATED on "high costs". When in reality, It's the INSURANCE cost that's become the problem. Because they KNOW -- they are beating the providers into submission and WANT the consumers to see the "Retail Price" to CONVINCE THE CONSUMERS -- that only the insurers can protect them from the devious and greedy medical community.

When in REALITY -- EVERYONE should know what the REAL costs are. The patients, the doctors, the policy wonks and the media. They don't right now. So it's all senseless shouting. Folks with MSAs KNOW the real costs of services and have figured out how to negotiate their OWN discounts. Multiply that by a million "negotiations" per year and pretty soon -- the "high costs of health care" WONT REQUIRE "inflated insurance prices" --- just as "protection money"...

. Would it not be that if the medical industry would charge ethical prices to begin with, then wouldn't the insureres up the amount of coverage to their customers, and give them more options within their coverage ??

Insurers are well are aware of these Trumped up cost. Most insurance, individual or group pays based on negotiated rates with their healthcare providers. The Medicare rates which are set based on actual costs are usually a starting point in negotiations.

. Ok, but does this not cause the healthcare provider (out of fear), that the negotiation may go to the extreme on behalf of the insurance company, (who may be playing super hard ball against them in the negotiations), to then cause the patient to suffer the fall out in the ways of poor quality care given now by the provider because it feels it won't get the amount it was asking for ?? And doesn't the patient also suffer the situation of the provider rolling the cost (in which the insurance company refuses to pay), over on to them in which the patients do not have the resources to protect themselves against a provider trying to gouge either the insurer or them as the insured ??

People and providers are ALREADY suffering. As doctors and hospitals lose tons of money on MediCaid/Medicare and start refusing to take new cases. These "hidden costs" are a HUGE part of escalating insurance...

. My mom was given up on in a hospital, and was basically left to die in the hospital... Sadly the hospital lied about her condition, and then they acted as if she was going to be ready for rehab where they moved her to the rehab floor, and then forced her to get up on her own after only 3 weeks in the facility, where they took all available monitoring equipment away from her, and this is where she then died as a result of the entire fiasco...... How do you die in a hospital where they have critical care for the critically ill patients, but then they just give up on someone without saying they gave up on them or why not just say that the person only had a short amount of time left to live, instead of misleading a family about it ???? Take any hospital let's say ok, now wouldn't they or shouldn't they tell the family members about a person that is dying ?? A nurse actually broke the code of secrecy to say, "they won't tell y'all, but I will, your mother is laying in their dying" ......... Ok if she's laying in their dying, then why were they forcing her to get up, and to act as if she was eligible for rehabilitation with no monitoring equipment being used upon her anymore ?? Why suffer a person or family in this way, otherwise if they knew better about it that she was dying ?? I saw it as cruel and unusual punishment to everyone involved in the situation. God bless her soul... We love ya mom.. Amen!!....... I can talk about it now, as it has been about two years since her passing. Why would a hospital mislead a family in that way ?? The whole service she got there was terrible, except for some of the nurses who looked after her... I know I wouldn't want to go to a place like that if I get sick. Sad situation it was..... Wouldn't wish that anyone should go through that.

Doctors will often withhold information from patients and family. You really have to ask them very boldly sometimes to get the truth. To some extent doctors, see the lost of a patient as a failure so as long as there is a chance, they want to keep the patient fighting to recovery even thou the odds are against recovery.

When my mother was dying with cancer and in the hospital, the doctor asked the family if they wanted him to tell her that she only had a few days left. In her case, we agreed it was not a good idea. When my father died, we knew he wanted the truth and he got it. I think it depends on the person.