Who really owns Palestine?

[WillReadmore]

You err in presuming that the arab beggars and squatters occupying disputed territories have any legitimate claim to the land.

Of course they have a legitimate claim to the land... They lived on it and worked on it for 2 thousand years.

There is no way to dismiss the human and civil rights of others.

Umm, no. The arab beggars and squatters were immigrants largely from from Egypt, Syria, Lebanon.

Disgusting comments to be sure.

But, you can't write off the existence of millions of people and steal their land on the basis of insults.

 

[Indeependent]

You err in presuming that the arab beggars and squatters occupying disputed territories have any legitimate claim to the land.

The only land dispute is how much of West Bank (a nation recognized by the UN and over 120 nations including most of our allies) Israel has stolen in its ethnic cleansing operations.

So please supply the rationale behind the events leading up to the 1967 War?
You know, ALL the events.
What Egypt was doing.
What Jordan was doing.
What Syria was doing.
What the f*ing Kikes were doing.

Do tell...EVERYTHING.

 

[WillReadmore]

You somehow missed the part that "Palestine" being recognized as a nation is pointless when no such nation exists or has existed.

There was a time when Italy and Germany didn't exist..

very good point-----and true. At this time Israel does exist as a nation and
"palestine" does not That which will exist in the future is unknown. Existing
nations tend to try to remain existent. (it is a corollary to Sir Isaac Newtons
laws of thermodynamics)

Israel has recognition from the UN and more than 120 nations.

Suggesting it doesn't exist is pretty darn stupid - and physics would not dispute that.

 

[Shaarona]

You err in presuming that the arab beggars and squatters occupying disputed territories have any legitimate claim to the land.

The only land dispute is how much of West Bank (a nation recognized by the UN and over 120 nations including most of our allies) Israel has stolen in its ethnic cleansing operations.

Its been over for years.. Look at a map of the settlements.. There is no room for a contiguous Palestinian state.

In creating "facts on the ground" and building Jewish only settlements and roads, they have also recruited the "settlers" who will bring the government to its knees before they will move.

The demographics get real messy.. The ultra Orthodox won't work or serve in the military and they have large families. God knows what the secular Jews and the reformed Jews will do about this problem.

 

[Hollie]

Of course they have a legitimate claim to the land... They lived on it and worked on it for 2 thousand years.

There is no way to dismiss the human and civil rights of others.

Umm, no. The arab beggars and squatters were immigrants largely from from Egypt, Syria, Lebanon.

Disgusting comments to be sure.

But, you can't write off the existence of millions of people and steal their land on the basis of insults.

Similarly, you can't make presumptive arguments and then recoil in shocked surprise when your arguments are challenged. Well, you could, but that would be poor cricket, Laddy.

 

[WillReadmore]

There was a time when Italy and Germany didn't exist..

very good point-----and true. At this time Israel does exist as a nation and
"palestine" does not That which will exist in the future is unknown. Existing
nations tend to try to remain existent. (it is a corollary to Sir Isaac Newtons
laws of thermodynamics)

Israel was for most of its history a vassal state in a province of Syria...

The Palestinians and the Negev Bedouin have no future.. There is no room left for a Palestinian state..... so they will ultimately be pushed out altogether.

It will be like Hitler's Germany being Judenfrei ..

I agree that we may be headed toward a one state solution, but I don't agree with the notion that West Bank will be ethnically cleansed of it's non-Jewish population. Israel can case stupendous misery and humanitarian degradation, but West Bank residents aren't just going to "go away" - for many reasons. And, Israel won't be willing to partake in the actual genocide that would be required.

By international law, when land becomes part of a different state, those who are living on it retain their ownership rights and become citizens of their new country.

This is, of course, one of the reasons that Israel has not favored a single state solution. It would mean expanding apartheid and the eventual end of the whole notion of a "Jewish State".

 

[WillReadmore]

Umm, no. The arab beggars and squatters were immigrants largely from from Egypt, Syria, Lebanon.

Disgusting comments to be sure.

But, you can't write off the existence of millions of people and steal their land on the basis of insults.

Similarly, you can't make presumptive arguments and then recoil in shocked surprise when your arguments are challenged. Well, you could, but that would be poor cricket, Laddy.

Your disgusting name calling is the only thing shocking to me.

And, like immigrants to the US, those who DID immigrate to West Bank are not legal targets for theft of their possessions, nor is it legitimate to ethnically cleans them from what is now their homeland.

 

[Shaarona]

You err in presuming that the arab beggars and squatters occupying disputed territories have any legitimate claim to the land.

The only land dispute is how much of West Bank (a nation recognized by the UN and over 120 nations including most of our allies) Israel has stolen in its ethnic cleansing operations.

So please supply the rationale behind the events leading up to the 1967 War?
You know, ALL the events.
What Egypt was doing.
What Jordan was doing.
What Syria was doing.
What the f*ing Kikes were doing.

Do tell...EVERYTHING.

The run up to the 1967 was begun in 1953... The Israelis wanted more land and water. That is detailed in the writing of Moshe Dayan and Sharrett.. They also document the provocations they employed to bring on a war.

The Israelis were clever.. they surprise bombed the Egyptian when Egyptian forces were deployed fighting a civil war in Yemen.

 

[WillReadmore]

You err in presuming that the arab beggars and squatters occupying disputed territories have any legitimate claim to the land.

The only land dispute is how much of West Bank (a nation recognized by the UN and over 120 nations including most of our allies) Israel has stolen in its ethnic cleansing operations.

Its been over for years.. Look at a map of the settlements.. There is no room for a contiguous Palestinian state.

In creating "facts on the ground" and building Jewish only settlements and roads, they have also recruited the "settlers" who will bring the government to its knees before they will move.

The demographics get real messy.. The ultra Orthodox won't work or serve in the military and they have large families. God knows what the secular Jews and the reformed Jews will do about this problem.

I don't disagree that a single state solution is a possibility.

BUT, that does NOT suggest that ethnic cleansing is OK. Palestinians own their property and, regardless of whether they remain citizens of Palestine in a two state solution or they become citizens of a single state Israel solution, they still have every right of citizenship and of freedom from humanitarian atrocity at the hands of Israel (or anyone else).

 

[Shaarona]

very good point-----and true. At this time Israel does exist as a nation and
"palestine" does not That which will exist in the future is unknown. Existing
nations tend to try to remain existent. (it is a corollary to Sir Isaac Newtons
laws of thermodynamics)

Israel was for most of its history a vassal state in a province of Syria...

The Palestinians and the Negev Bedouin have no future.. There is no room left for a Palestinian state..... so they will ultimately be pushed out altogether.

It will be like Hitler's Germany being Judenfrei ..

I agree that we may be headed toward a one state solution, but I don't agree with the notion that West Bank will be ethnically cleansed of it's non-Jewish population. Israel can case stupendous misery and humanitarian degradation, but West Bank residents aren't just going to "go away" - for many reasons. And, Israel won't be willing to partake in the actual genocide that would be required.

By international law, when land becomes part of a different state, those who are living on it retain their ownership rights and become citizens of their new country.

This is, of course, one of the reasons that Israel has not favored a single state solution. It would mean expanding apartheid and the eventual end of the whole notion of a "Jewish State".

Israel has never given a fig for international law.

If the Israelis allow the Arabs to stay and become citizens with a vote.. they would be outnumbered.

 

[Hossfly]

I don't. Period. End of story.

This thread is about what is going on inside Palestine - West Bank in particular.

Those Islamic terrorists I say you defend are the Palisimians you seem to want to talk about.

And, Israel has agreed by its very actions that Abbas is doing yeoman work against terrorism in West Bank by turning over security work to Palestine.

The Bush "road map" included a demand that Israel end it's expansion of settlements and that it remove settlements that even Israel agrees are illegal.

Israel has flouted America's direction in that respect by not only failing to remove settlements, but demanding the right to grow those settlements - ethnically cleansing areas of West Bank while steeling that land for their own private use.


What would YOU do if an occupying force stole your land and attempted to drive you and your people away?

I really want an answer to that.

The answer to that question is simple. If an occupying force held my land given me by a covenant and I was driven out centuries ago, I would go back tomy land and run those sonsabitches into the sea. None of this phony peace treaty nonsense. I think Israel can handle it.

 

[WillReadmore]

Israel has never given a fig for international law.

If the Israelis allow the Arabs to stay and become citizens with a vote.. they would be outnumbered.

Your admission that Israel is a criminal state definitely has my support.

Suggesting that Israel could vote to make ethnic cleansing legal is about as stupid as I've seen it get on this subject.

 

[Hossfly]

First - the "ethnic cleansing," as in the forced relocation of the Jews from England (1290), France (1306), Hungary (1349-1360), Provence (1394 and 1490), Austria (1421), Lithuania (1445), Cracow (1494), Portugal (1497), is a much different thing than the "genocide" Holocaust of WWII or the threat posed by the Arabs to threat to "wipe them out." Given the choice of "forced relocation" and "mass extermination" --- it is obvious which of the two is more horrific.

Why are you making these statements?

Do you see these as justifying Israeli ethnic cleansing operations of today?

As to self defense, what would you suggest should be the limits to Palestinian self defense within its own borders when a foreign power is forcibly stealing private property for personal aggrandizement and driving off its citizens in ethnic cleansing operations?

Why do you excuse Islamic terrorists and don't even think about saying you dont?

ZZZzzzzzzz................

 

[WillReadmore]

Those Islamic terrorists I say you defend are the Palisimians you seem to want to talk about.

And, Israel has agreed by its very actions that Abbas is doing yeoman work against terrorism in West Bank by turning over security work to Palestine.

The Bush "road map" included a demand that Israel end it's expansion of settlements and that it remove settlements that even Israel agrees are illegal.

Israel has flouted America's direction in that respect by not only failing to remove settlements, but demanding the right to grow those settlements - ethnically cleansing areas of West Bank while steeling that land for their own private use.


What would YOU do if an occupying force stole your land and attempted to drive you and your people away?

I really want an answer to that.

The answer to that question is simple. If an occupying force held my land given me by a covenant and I was driven out centuries ago, I would go back tomy land and run those sonsabitches into the sea. None of this phony peace treaty nonsense. I think Israel can handle it.

You failed to answer the question.

I want an answer to my question.

No more dodges.

What would you do if a foreign power stole the property you own today?

 

[Hollie]

very good point-----and true. At this time Israel does exist as a nation and
"palestine" does not That which will exist in the future is unknown. Existing
nations tend to try to remain existent. (it is a corollary to Sir Isaac Newtons
laws of thermodynamics)

Israel was for most of its history a vassal state in a province of Syria...

The Palestinians and the Negev Bedouin have no future.. There is no room left for a Palestinian state..... so they will ultimately be pushed out altogether.

It will be like Hitler's Germany being Judenfrei ..

I agree that we may be headed toward a one state solution, but I don't agree with the notion that West Bank will be ethnically cleansed of it's non-Jewish population. Israel can case stupendous misery and humanitarian degradation, but West Bank residents aren't just going to "go away" - for many reasons. And, Israel won't be willing to partake in the actual genocide that would be required.

By international law, when land becomes part of a different state, those who are living on it retain their ownership rights and become citizens of their new country.

This is, of course, one of the reasons that Israel has not favored a single state solution. It would mean expanding apartheid and the eventual end of the whole notion of a "Jewish State".

This is patently untrue. And I can only assume you prefer self-denial and scapegoating rather than acknowledging the major problem in Islam today of the extensive world terrorism performed by Moslems and Moslem intolerance that are so frequently in the headlines. There can be no one-state solution with an intransigent Death Cult that holds to a charter requiring the Jews be driven into the sea by machinegun fire. At no time in Islamist history have the reviled kafir or those of competing religions been treated as equals. The treatment of Jews, Christians, and other non-Moslems under islamist rule was always as inferior to islamism and discrimination, oppression, even mass murders and other atrocities occurred.

And, today, the Muslim world has achieved something even the Nazis never did: their lands nearly Judenrein (rid of Jews).


If Israel followed a philosophy to establish Israel's borders by past borders, then there never would have been trade of land for peace with Egypt or discussions with Palestinians or with Syria.

Israel's capture in 1967 of Sinai, the West Bank, Gaza, and the Golan Heights was in response to Arab agression. Israel voluntarily returned of all Sinai to Egypt following formal recognition and peace treaty with Egypt.

Israel annexed the Golan Heights and East Jerusalem. There is still no "Palestinian" land at this time. There is occupation of the West Bank and Gaza.

The lesson is the willingness of Israel to return land for peace with her neighbors.
This underlies all treaties and actions (even the unilateral withdrawals from south Lebanon and from Gaza) that followed ftom 1982 to the present day.

A similar peace with Syria will lead to the return of most if not all of the Golan.

 

[Hossfly]

And, Israel has agreed by its very actions that Abbas is doing yeoman work against terrorism in West Bank by turning over security work to Palestine.

The Bush "road map" included a demand that Israel end it's expansion of settlements and that it remove settlements that even Israel agrees are illegal.

Israel has flouted America's direction in that respect by not only failing to remove settlements, but demanding the right to grow those settlements - ethnically cleansing areas of West Bank while steeling that land for their own private use.


What would YOU do if an occupying force stole your land and attempted to drive you and your people away?

I really want an answer to that.

The answer to that question is simple. If an occupying force held my land given me by a covenant and I was driven out centuries ago, I would go back tomy land and run those sonsabitches into the sea. None of this phony peace treaty nonsense. I think Israel can handle it.

You failed to answer the question.

I want an answer to my question.

No more dodges.

What would you do if a foreign power stole the property you own today?

You fail to understand that Arabs stole the land from Israel when the people were driven out. The U.N. gave the Jews the right to move back to their land and they were nice to the squatters and let them stay. Now the ungrateful squatters want to kick out the owners and that ain't goin' to happen, Turdblossom.

 

[Hollie]

Disgusting comments to be sure.

But, you can't write off the existence of millions of people and steal their land on the basis of insults.

Similarly, you can't make presumptive arguments and then recoil in shocked surprise when your arguments are challenged. Well, you could, but that would be poor cricket, Laddy.

Your disgusting name calling is the only thing shocking to me.

And, like immigrants to the US, those who DID immigrate to West Bank are not legal targets for theft of their possessions, nor is it legitimate to ethnically cleans them from what is now their homeland.

I'll give you a 5.5 for feverish, chest-heaving melodrama.

Otherwise, the ethnic cleansing™ slogan is tired and worn out.

But if you really want to understand ethnic cleansing, please discuss for us the status of competing religions in the islamist Middle East, AKA, Moslem Lands™

 

[Hollie]

"Tradition holds that Caliph Umar (r. 644 – 652) first expelled Christians and Jews from the Hijaz – the northwestern expanse of the Arabian Peninsula – as the area became increasingly understood as Islam’s holy land. His decree, which cited the Prophet Muhammad’s imperative that “No two religions must remain in the land of the Arabs,” has remained in place, apparently uninterrupted, to the present (it is now perpetuated by the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia). Though official records are scant, it appears that the ban on non-Muslims was rigorously and violently enforced; accounts abound of the extraordinary punishments dealt to Christians found in violation of the sanctity of the Hijaz. Christians in Mecca, a summary of expeditions to Mecca published in 1909, suggested that “no infraction of this decree, once brought to light, has had other than tragic consequences.” Its author intoned that “scarcely a pilgrimage takes place without some persons being put to death as intruded Christians.” Indeed, John Fryer Keane, British sailor and entrant to Mecca in the late nineteenth century, heard of three Englishmen held “with iron collars round their necks chained among the hills,” and the Persian pilgrim Hossein Kazamzadeh noted that “Christians who do dare enter these forbidden places run the risk of being assassinated.”

--Penn History Review, "The Dual Man: Impersonation and Performance in the Hijaz" by Cameron Hu

 

[WillReadmore]

The answer to that question is simple. If an occupying force held my land given me by a covenant and I was driven out centuries ago, I would go back tomy land and run those sonsabitches into the sea. None of this phony peace treaty nonsense. I think Israel can handle it.

You failed to answer the question.

I want an answer to my question.

No more dodges.

What would you do if a foreign power stole the property you own today?

You fail to understand that Arabs stole the land from Israel when the people were driven out. The U.N. gave the Jews the right to move back to their land and they were nice to the squatters and let them stay. Now the ungrateful squatters want to kick out the owners and that ain't goin' to happen, Turdblossom.

I still want an answer to my question. No more dodging, please.

And, "Turdblossom" is already taken - that name belongs to Karl Rove.

Ask Bush!

 

[WillReadmore]

Similarly, you can't make presumptive arguments and then recoil in shocked surprise when your arguments are challenged. Well, you could, but that would be poor cricket, Laddy.

Your disgusting name calling is the only thing shocking to me.

And, like immigrants to the US, those who DID immigrate to West Bank are not legal targets for theft of their possessions, nor is it legitimate to ethnically cleans them from what is now their homeland.

I'll give you a 5.5 for feverish, chest-heaving melodrama.

Otherwise, the ethnic cleansing™ slogan is tired and worn out.

But if you really want to understand ethnic cleansing, please discuss for us the status of competing religions in the islamist Middle East, AKA, Moslem Lands™

No.

This thread is about Palestine.

And, ethnic cleansing is what it is - regardless of how many times or how long it is allowed to take place.