Who Is/Was the Greatest Race Horse of All Time ?

[protectionist]

Yo, American Pharoah, what a beast, the Preakness Race was the best, it being muddy, and usually a long shot will win, but American Pharoah smoked the field in all three, a nice specimen!!!

American Pharoah Triple Crown Winner !!! - All 3 Races Compilation


"GTP"
"Beautiful Horse"
View attachment 76371
View attachment 76372

Great horse. Nice pictures. Thanks.

 

[rightwinger]

In terms of record, I would have to go with Man O' War winning 20 out of 21 races

In terms of raw performance, I'd go with Secretariat in the Belmont winning by 30 plus lengths at a time no other horse has come close to in 40 years

 

[Granny]

Secretariat was a beauty. Raised on a farm outside Richmond, VA. I can't remember the name of the farm now, but I think it's now the location for the Virginia State Fairgrounds and the main attraction now at the old fairground location is NASCAR - Richmond International Raceway. I believe Secretariat was the sire of Riva Ridge.

I've never really had an interest in auto racing. Seeing a majestic animal like Secretariat do what none before him and none after him could ever do, with the body that came from God (as opposed to some auto factory), is about incomparable. Secretariat's 1973 Belmont Stakes amazing performance is unforgettable, so far, after almost half a century, unmatchable by any race horse in the world.

Oh, not making any comparison between horse racing and NASCAR by a long shot! The noise alone of car racing would deafen me permanently. I only brought it up as something of an aside. I think the farm where Secretarial was raised fell on hard times or something and the people involved with the State Fair had been looking for a place to move the fair since over time the surrounding home communities had become a lot less desirable - not altogether as safe as they had been in past decades. The old fair grounds has some activity - bazaars, etc. but the racetrack which had always been there is essentially the main attraction at that property.

 

[protectionist]

In terms of record, I would have to go with Man O' War winning 20 out of 21 races

In terms of raw performance, I'd go with Secretariat in the Belmont winning by 30 plus lengths at a time no other horse has come close to in 40 years

The problem with just looking at records is that don't reveal major difference in why those records are what they are. Secretariat, in his first year lost some races because of various reasons. Take away those reasons, and he's undefeated.

 

[rightwinger]

In terms of record, I would have to go with Man O' War winning 20 out of 21 races

In terms of raw performance, I'd go with Secretariat in the Belmont winning by 30 plus lengths at a time no other horse has come close to in 40 years

The problem with just looking at records is that don't reveal major difference in why those records are what they are. Secretariat, in his first year lost some races because of various reasons. Take away those reasons, and he's undefeated.

Isn't everyone?

 

[protectionist]

Isn't everyone?

I don t know, but Secretariat's losses are not related to his racing ability.

 

[rightwinger]

Isn't everyone?

I don t know, but Secretariat's losses are not related to his racing ability.

Man O' Wars only loss as a two year old

In the early 1900s, there were no starting gates. Horses circled around and then lined up behind a piece of webbing known as the barrier and were sent away when it was raised. In Man o' War's only loss, the Sanford Memorial Stakes, he was still circling with his back to the starting line when the barrier was raised (though some accounts give other reasons). After Man o' War turned around, he already was far behind the starters. Jockey Johnny Loftus put Man o' War in a bad position, getting boxed in by other horses. Despite this, he came close to winning, losing by a half-length. The winner was Upset, whose name is sometimes erroneously thought to have popularized a new phrase in sports (meaning an underdog beating the favorite)—in fact, the term "upset" was already in use to describe such a situation decades before

Secretariat lost four times

 

[Iceweasel]

I'm not a horse race person but I saw the movie about Secretariat and had to look it up online. It was true (for a change). The horse was not the biggest or best built or probably had the best form but he must have had a heart of gold. That 31 length victory was stunning when he was supposed to not do as well being small and the track much longer.

 

[protectionist]

Man O' Wars only loss as a two year old

In the early 1900s, there were no starting gates. Horses circled around and then lined up behind a piece of webbing known as the barrier and were sent away when it was raised. In Man o' War's only loss, the Sanford Memorial Stakes, he was still circling with his back to the starting line when the barrier was raised (though some accounts give other reasons). After Man o' War turned around, he already was far behind the starters. Jockey Johnny Loftus put Man o' War in a bad position, getting boxed in by other horses. Despite this, he came close to winning, losing by a half-length. The winner was Upset, whose name is sometimes erroneously thought to have popularized a new phrase in sports (meaning an underdog beating the favorite)—in fact, the term "upset" was already in use to describe such a situation decades before

Secretariat lost four times

OK you asked for it here they are >>

Every one of Secretariat's losses (5) can be attributed to unforeseen circumstances.

1. Secretariat came in 4th in his first race, because he got absolutely MUGGED at the start. He got knocked around by two other horses at the starting gate, and almost fell down. The race was only 5-1/2 furlongs, so Secretariat simply didn't have enough racetrack to make up the time he lost at the start.

2. Secretariat won the Champagne Stakes, but was disqualified to 2nd place because he (supposedly) bumped a horse too hard during the race. Turcotte stated that it was a ridiculous decision by the track stewards.

3. Secretariat lost the Wood Memorial (3rd place) due to a quarter-size abscess inside of his upper lip that bothered him greatly. Some of the Secretariat "handlers" (the grooms, exercise riders, and the track veterinarian) knew about the abscess, but Lucien Laurin, Penny Tweedy, and Ron Turcotte had no idea. The assistant trainer was notified about it, but never passed the word along to any of the three people who really needed to know. "Big Red" wasn't eating right, was in pain, and after treating the abscess with hot compresses for many days, it finally broke and healed shortly before the Kentucky Derby.

4. Secretariat lost the Whitney (2nd place) due to a low-grade fever that clearly bothered him. Ron Turcotte knew about the fever, told Lucien Laurin that he didn't think Secretariat should run in the race, but Laurin insisted that Secretariat run the race anyway.

5. Secretariat lost the Woodward (2nd place) because he had not been "properly" trained for the race (he was a replacement for Riva Ridge, who was supposed to run in the Woodward but the track was a muddy mess and Riva Ridge hated "off" tracks.

And you already knew about these.

 

[protectionist]

I'm not a horse race person but I saw the movie about Secretariat and had to look it up online. It was true (for a change). The horse was not the biggest or best built or probably had the best form but he must have had a heart of gold. That 31 length victory was stunning when he was supposed to not do as well being small and the track much longer.

"Small" ? I think you're mixed up. Secretariat was huge. That's how he got the name >> "Big Red"

 

[Iceweasel]

I'm not a horse race person but I saw the movie about Secretariat and had to look it up online. It was true (for a change). The horse was not the biggest or best built or probably had the best form but he must have had a heart of gold. That 31 length victory was stunning when he was supposed to not do as well being small and the track much longer.

"Small" ? I think you're mixed up. Secretariat was huge. That's how he got the name >> "Big Red"

Maybe that was Seabiscuit then, I said I wasn't a horse guy! I do remember in the movie that he was doing well on the short tracks and people though he was more of a sprinter.

 

[rightwinger]

Man O' Wars only loss as a two year old

In the early 1900s, there were no starting gates. Horses circled around and then lined up behind a piece of webbing known as the barrier and were sent away when it was raised. In Man o' War's only loss, the Sanford Memorial Stakes, he was still circling with his back to the starting line when the barrier was raised (though some accounts give other reasons). After Man o' War turned around, he already was far behind the starters. Jockey Johnny Loftus put Man o' War in a bad position, getting boxed in by other horses. Despite this, he came close to winning, losing by a half-length. The winner was Upset, whose name is sometimes erroneously thought to have popularized a new phrase in sports (meaning an underdog beating the favorite)—in fact, the term "upset" was already in use to describe such a situation decades before

Secretariat lost four times

OK you asked for it here they are >>

Every one of Secretariat's losses (5) can be attributed to unforeseen circumstances.

1. Secretariat came in 4th in his first race, because he got absolutely MUGGED at the start. He got knocked around by two other horses at the starting gate, and almost fell down. The race was only 5-1/2 furlongs, so Secretariat simply didn't have enough racetrack to make up the time he lost at the start.


2. Secretariat won the Champagne Stakes, but was disqualified to 2nd place because he (supposedly) bumped a horse too hard during the race. Turcotte stated that it was a ridiculous decision by the track stewards.


3. Secretariat lost the Wood Memorial (3rd place) due to a quarter-size abscess inside of his upper lip that bothered him greatly. Some of the Secretariat "handlers" (the grooms, exercise riders, and the track veterinarian) knew about the abscess, but Lucien Laurin, Penny Tweedy, and Ron Turcotte had no idea. The assistant trainer was notified about it, but never passed the word along to any of the three people who really needed to know. "Big Red" wasn't eating right, was in pain, and after treating the abscess with hot compresses for many days, it finally broke and healed shortly before the Kentucky Derby.

4. Secretariat lost the Whitney (2nd place) due to a low-grade fever that clearly bothered him. Ron Turcotte knew about the fever, told Lucien Laurin that he didn't think Secretariat should run in the race, but Laurin insisted that Secretariat run the race anyway.



5. Secretariat lost the Woodward (2nd place) because he had not been "properly" trained for the race (he was a replacement for Riva Ridge, who was supposed to run in the Woodward but the track was a muddy mess and Riva Ridge hated "off" tracks.

And you already knew about these.

Hardly worthy excuses

1. Secretariat came in 4th in his first race, because he got absolutely MUGGED at the start. He got knocked around by two other horses at the starting gate, and almost fell down. The race was only 5-1/2 furlongs, so Secretariat simply didn't have enough racetrack to make up the time he lost at the start.

Part of racing and is the fault of the jockey and horse.....my horse would have won if he ran a better race

2. Secretariat won the Champagne Stakes, but was disqualified to 2nd place because he (supposedly) bumped a horse too hard during the race. Turcotte stated that it was a ridiculous decision by the track stewards.

Again part of racing. That is why they have challenges. Sounds like sour grapes

3. Secretariat lost the Wood Memorial (3rd place) due to a quarter-size abscess inside of his upper lip that bothered him greatly. Some of the Secretariat "handlers" (the grooms, exercise riders, and the track veterinarian) knew about the abscess, but Lucien Laurin, Penny Tweedy, and Ron Turcotte had no idea. The assistant trainer was notified about it, but never passed the word along to any of the three people who really needed to know. "Big Red" wasn't eating right, was in pain, and after treating the abscess with hot compresses for many days, it finally broke and healed shortly before the Kentucky Derby.

It is a decision of the owners and trainers to run or not to run. If your horse is not at its best, the effort still counts

4. Secretariat lost the Whitney (2nd place) due to a low-grade fever that clearly bothered him. Ron Turcotte knew about the fever, told Lucien Laurin that he didn't think Secretariat should run in the race, but Laurin insisted that Secretariat run the race anyway.

It is a decision of the owners and trainers to run or not to run. If your horse is not at its best, the effort still counts

5. Secretariat lost the Woodward (2nd place) because he had not been "properly" trained for the race (he was a replacement for Riva Ridge, who was supposed to run in the Woodward but the track was a muddy mess and Riva Ridge hated "off" tracks.

Weak excuse. It is up to the trainer to make sure his horse is ready



.

 

[rightwinger]

Pharlap

 

[protectionist]

Hardly worthy excuses

1. Secretariat came in 4th in his first race, because he got absolutely MUGGED at the start. He got knocked around by two other horses at the starting gate, and almost fell down. The race was only 5-1/2 furlongs, so Secretariat simply didn't have enough racetrack to make up the time he lost at the start.

Part of racing and is the fault of the jockey and horse.....my horse would have won if he ran a better race

2. Secretariat won the Champagne Stakes, but was disqualified to 2nd place because he (supposedly) bumped a horse too hard during the race. Turcotte stated that it was a ridiculous decision by the track stewards.

Again part of racing. That is why they have challenges. Sounds like sour grapes

3. Secretariat lost the Wood Memorial (3rd place) due to a quarter-size abscess inside of his upper lip that bothered him greatly. Some of the Secretariat "handlers" (the grooms, exercise riders, and the track veterinarian) knew about the abscess, but Lucien Laurin, Penny Tweedy, and Ron Turcotte had no idea. The assistant trainer was notified about it, but never passed the word along to any of the three people who really needed to know. "Big Red" wasn't eating right, was in pain, and after treating the abscess with hot compresses for many days, it finally broke and healed shortly before the Kentucky Derby.

It is a decision of the owners and trainers to run or not to run. If your horse is not at its best, the effort still counts

4. Secretariat lost the Whitney (2nd place) due to a low-grade fever that clearly bothered him. Ron Turcotte knew about the fever, told Lucien Laurin that he didn't think Secretariat should run in the race, but Laurin insisted that Secretariat run the race anyway.

It is a decision of the owners and trainers to run or not to run. If your horse is not at its best, the effort still counts

5. Secretariat lost the Woodward (2nd place) because he had not been "properly" trained for the race (he was a replacement for Riva Ridge, who was supposed to run in the Woodward but the track was a muddy mess and Riva Ridge hated "off" tracks.

Weak excuse. It is up to the trainer to make sure his horse is ready

You got 5 good reasons about the HORSE and you come back talking about the trainer, and then brushed them all off. I'll remember to brush YOU off in the future. I talk to serious, intelligent posters, not idiots.
Show me ANY horse with better recorded times in a number of races than Secretariat, and THEN I'll grant that horse the "greatest" title. Until then, it is Secretariat who is the king.

 

[alpine]

The Byerley Turk

The first thoroughbred horse

The reason I like him is because he was a war horse, fought in many battles

A true veteran warrior...

 

[rightwinger]

Hardly worthy excuses

1. Secretariat came in 4th in his first race, because he got absolutely MUGGED at the start. He got knocked around by two other horses at the starting gate, and almost fell down. The race was only 5-1/2 furlongs, so Secretariat simply didn't have enough racetrack to make up the time he lost at the start.

Part of racing and is the fault of the jockey and horse.....my horse would have won if he ran a better race

2. Secretariat won the Champagne Stakes, but was disqualified to 2nd place because he (supposedly) bumped a horse too hard during the race. Turcotte stated that it was a ridiculous decision by the track stewards.

Again part of racing. That is why they have challenges. Sounds like sour grapes

3. Secretariat lost the Wood Memorial (3rd place) due to a quarter-size abscess inside of his upper lip that bothered him greatly. Some of the Secretariat "handlers" (the grooms, exercise riders, and the track veterinarian) knew about the abscess, but Lucien Laurin, Penny Tweedy, and Ron Turcotte had no idea. The assistant trainer was notified about it, but never passed the word along to any of the three people who really needed to know. "Big Red" wasn't eating right, was in pain, and after treating the abscess with hot compresses for many days, it finally broke and healed shortly before the Kentucky Derby.

It is a decision of the owners and trainers to run or not to run. If your horse is not at its best, the effort still counts

4. Secretariat lost the Whitney (2nd place) due to a low-grade fever that clearly bothered him. Ron Turcotte knew about the fever, told Lucien Laurin that he didn't think Secretariat should run in the race, but Laurin insisted that Secretariat run the race anyway.

It is a decision of the owners and trainers to run or not to run. If your horse is not at its best, the effort still counts

5. Secretariat lost the Woodward (2nd place) because he had not been "properly" trained for the race (he was a replacement for Riva Ridge, who was supposed to run in the Woodward but the track was a muddy mess and Riva Ridge hated "off" tracks.

Weak excuse. It is up to the trainer to make sure his horse is ready

You got 5 good reasons about the HORSE and you come back talking about the trainer, and then brushed them all off. I'll remember to brush YOU off in the future. I talk to serious, intelligent posters, not idiots.
Show me ANY horse with better recorded times in a number of races than Secretariat, and THEN I'll grant that horse the "greatest" title. Until then, it is Secretariat who is the king.

A horse wins and a horse loses because of the team around him. The trainer gets him ready, the medical staff checks him out, the jockey plots a course, the horse runs

No question Secretariat has better times. But all athletes are better than athletes from 50 years before

Humans running the mile in the 70s had times 20 seconds faster than humans in the 1920s. Training is better, nutrition is better, medical care is better, tracks and shoes are better

 

[protectionist]

A horse wins and a horse loses because of the team around him. The trainer gets him ready, the medical staff checks him out, the jockey plots a course, the horse runs

No question Secretariat has better times. But all athletes are better than athletes from 50 years before

Humans running the mile in the 70s had times 20 seconds faster than humans in the 1920s. Training is better, nutrition is better, medical care is better, tracks and shoes are better

Thanks for the confirmation, Secretariat was BETTER. Fastest & Greatest of all time.

 

[rightwinger]

A horse wins and a horse loses because of the team around him. The trainer gets him ready, the medical staff checks him out, the jockey plots a course, the horse runs

No question Secretariat has better times. But all athletes are better than athletes from 50 years before

Humans running the mile in the 70s had times 20 seconds faster than humans in the 1920s. Training is better, nutrition is better, medical care is better, tracks and shoes are better

Thanks for the confirmation, Secretariat was BETTER. Fastest & Greatest of all time.

I always said Secretariat had the faster times

Only pointed out that Man O' War had the more impressive record