Who Is Occupying Who's Land?

[toastman]

What are blathering on about?

I've been asking you the same thing for a while now

I just post fact with sources. You post bullshit. That's the difference.

Monti, even you know that's not true. Your posts are here for everyone to see, so you cannot get away with a lie like this.
You post Arab propaganda and you constantly distort history. I am the one who posts facts with links. You are full of shit and everyone here knows it.

Is that another Hasbara technique? Just call another poster a liar and repeat enough times? The old Goebells trick.

You never post a fact. You never provide backup because there isn't any except from propaganda sites.

I only post fact with backup and usual the backup are source documents from official archives. It is you and your Israel Firster friends that just repeat Zionist propaganda that has been discredited nearly everywhere.

LMAO! Monte only posts "FACTS with back up." Now THAT'S funny!

Monti is great for laughs, isn't he?

 

[Phoenall]

What are blathering on about?

I've been asking you the same thing for a while now

I just post fact with sources. You post bullshit. That's the difference.

Monti, even you know that's not true. Your posts are here for everyone to see, so you cannot get away with a lie like this.
You post Arab propaganda and you constantly distort history. I am the one who posts facts with links. You are full of shit and everyone here knows it.

Is that another Hasbara technique? Just call another poster a liar and repeat enough times? The old Goebells trick.

You never post a fact. You never provide backup because there isn't any except from propaganda sites.

I only post fact with backup and usual the backup are source documents from official archives. It is you and your Israel Firster friends that just repeat Zionist propaganda that has been discredited nearly everywhere.

And as you have been shown many of your documents are not legally acceptable or verifiable. Backup means you use two distinct sources separated by cultural differences that say the same thing. Not a source that says " an unnamed Palestinian source said "

 

[Challenger]

Challenger, et al,

I think you made an assumption here, that is not in evidence.

....People of Palestine actually decide they want a "State" and are willing to support a reasonable government.

There, you hit the nail right on the head. "...a reasonable government." Reasonable, in who's eyes? If the Palestinian people held free and fair elections, supervised by the UN and voted in a Hamas government, would the West recognise it? Oh wait, they did, in 2006; that worked well didn't it? Hamas were ready to talk then and America was ready to accept the result of the democratic vote. The US State Department got ready to recognise the new government...and then the Zionist lobby and their masters in Israel went into overdrive and we have the current mess. A "reasonable government" really means one who does what it's told by the Zionists, doesn't it?

(COMMENT)

What the rest of the world community recognizes or does not recognize is a matter of diplomacy. But what the US can recognize and support is a matter of law. And the law of the land is very specific relative to the a designated terrorist organization (ie HAMAS).

Legal Ramifications of Designation

1. It is unlawful for a person in the United States or subject to the jurisdiction of the United States to knowingly provide "material support or resources" to a designated FTO. (The term "material support or resources" is defined in 18 U.S.C. § 2339A(b)(1) as " any property, tangible or intangible, or service, including currency or monetary instruments or financial securities, financial services, lodging, training, expert advice or assistance, safehouses, false documentation or identification, communications equipment, facilities, weapons, lethal substances, explosives, personnel (1 or more individuals who maybe or include oneself), and transportation, except medicine or religious materials.” 18 U.S.C. § 2339A(b)(2) provides that for these purposes “the term ‘training’ means instruction or teaching designed to impart a specific skill, as opposed to general knowledge.” 18 U.S.C. § 2339A(b)(3) further provides that for these purposes the term ‘expert advice or assistance’ means advice or assistance derived from scientific, technical or other specialized knowledge.’’
2. Representatives and members of a designated FTO, if they are aliens, are inadmissible to and, in certain circumstances, removable from the United States (see 8 U.S.C. §§ 1182 (a)(3)(B)(i)(IV)-(V), 1227 (a)(1)(A)).
3. Any U.S. financial institution that becomes aware that it has possession of or control over funds in which a designated FTO or its agent has an interest must retain possession of or control over the funds and report the funds to the Office of Foreign Assets Control of the U.S. Department of the Treasury.

It had nothing to do with a "Zionist Lobby." The law has been in place since the 1970's and the rise of Palestinian Terrorism. The fact that the People of Palestine chose to elect (freely) a terrorist organization has automatic consequences. The Zionist Lobby had nothing to do with HAMAS being designated in 1997 as a terrorist group. And a decade later (2006), when it became a political entity by the peoples choice, the Counterintelligence Community threw the red flag. It is a matter of law, not politics. HAMAS earned its place on the designated terrorist list. And the People of Palestine have to accept the consequences of their actions. It is as simple as that.

As usual, the Palestinians shot themselves in the foot and now want to blame everyone else for their self-inflected wound except the ones responsible (the People of Palestine).

Most Respectfully,
R

Don't have access to US law books, which law is that exactly? In any event it is the Secretary of State who decides who goes on or comes off the list based on political expediency covered by a fig leaf of the Bureau of Counterterrorism.

 

[montelatici]

What are blathering on about?

I've been asking you the same thing for a while now

I just post fact with sources. You post bullshit. That's the difference.

Monti, even you know that's not true. Your posts are here for everyone to see, so you cannot get away with a lie like this.
You post Arab propaganda and you constantly distort history. I am the one who posts facts with links. You are full of shit and everyone here knows it.

Is that another Hasbara technique? Just call another poster a liar and repeat enough times? The old Goebells trick.

You never post a fact. You never provide backup because there isn't any except from propaganda sites.

I only post fact with backup and usual the backup are source documents from official archives. It is you and your Israel Firster friends that just repeat Zionist propaganda that has been discredited nearly everywhere.

And as you have been shown many of your documents are not legally acceptable or verifiable. Backup means you use two distinct sources separated by cultural differences that say the same thing. Not a source that says " an unnamed Palestinian source said "

I have been shown nothing. Documents from the UN Archives are not only acceptable, they have been verified as either transcripts of the originals or true copies of the originals held in the UN archives.

"Backup means you use two distinct sources separated by cultural differences that say the same thing."

You just love to make things up, don't you. You continue to embarrass yourself with your crazy notions.

 

[RoccoR]

Challenger, et al,

Glad to help you out.

Don't have access to US law books, which law is that exactly?

(COMMENT)

Oh no problem at all. The law, as cited above is linked at:

• 18 U.S. Code § 2339A - Providing material support to terrorists

In any event it is the Secretary of State who decides who goes on or comes off the list based on political expediency covered by a fig leaf of the Bureau of Counterterrorism.

(COMMENT)

First, there is no Bureau of Counterterrorism within the Department of State. There is a Bureau of Diplomatic Security (DS) and Bureau of Intelligence and Research (INR).

• DS: The Bureau is responsible for providing a safe and secure environment for the conduct of U.S. foreign policy. Every diplomatic mission in the world operates under a security program designed and maintained by Diplomatic Security. In the United States, Diplomatic Security personnel protect the Secretary of State and high-ranking foreign dignitaries and officials visiting the United States, investigates passport and visa fraud, and conducts personnel security investigations. Operating from a global platform in 31 U.S. cities and more than 160 foreign countries, DS ensures that America can conduct diplomacy safely and securely. DS plays a vital role in protecting 275 U.S. diplomatic missions and their personnel overseas, securing critical information systems, investigating passport and visa fraud, and fighting the war on terror. DS is NOT a member of the U.S. intelligence community (IC).

• INR: The Bureau of Intelligence and Research's (INR) primary mission is to harness intelligence to serve U.S. diplomacy. Drawing on all-source intelligence, INR provides value-added independent analysis of events to U.S. State Department policymakers; ensures that intelligence activities support foreign policy and national security purposes; and serves as the focal point in the State Department for ensuring policy review of sensitive counterintelligence and law enforcement activities around the world. The bureau also analyzes geographical and international boundary issues. The Bureau of Intelligence and Research is a member of the IC [seventeen separate organizations united to form the Intelligence Community (IC)].

You are, most likely, confused with the National Counterterrorism Center (NCTC), which is one of six subsidiary centers of the Office of the Director of National Intelligence (ODNI). ODNI operates under the Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act of 2004.

• NCTC: NCTC serves as the primary organization in the U.S. government for integrating and analyzing all intelligence pertaining to terrorism possessed or acquired by the U.S. government (except purely domestic terrorism); serves as the central and shared knowledge bank on terrorism information; and ensures that agencies receive all-source intelligence support needed to execute their counterterrorism plans or to perform independent, alternative analysis, and receive the intelligence needed to accomplish their assigned activities.

NCTC serves as the principal advisor to the DNI on intelligence operations and analysis relating to counterterrorism, advising the DNI on how well US intelligence activities, programs, and budget proposals for counterterrorism conform to priorities established by the President.

Unique among US agencies, NCTC serves as the primary organization responsible for strategic operational planning for counterterrorism. Operating under the policy direction of the President and the National Security Council, NCTC provides interagency planning and assessments of US strategic counterterrorism programs and activities.​

While the Department of State (DOS) is the publisher of the list of Foreign Terrorist Organizations (FTO), and the designator, the detection and identification of individuals is a collaborative effort through the IC and in cooperation with ODNI and its NCTC. It is not a unique designation made unilaterally by DOS/INR.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Challenger]

Challenger, et al,

Glad to help you out.

Don't have access to US law books, which law is that exactly?

(COMMENT)

Oh no problem at all. The law, as cited above is linked at:

• 18 U.S. Code § 2339A - Providing material support to terrorists

In any event it is the Secretary of State who decides who goes on or comes off the list based on political expediency covered by a fig leaf of the Bureau of Counterterrorism.

(COMMENT)

First, there is no Bureau of Counterterrorism within the Department of State. There is a Bureau of Diplomatic Security (DS) and Bureau of Intelligence and Research (INR).

• DS: The Bureau is responsible for providing a safe and secure environment for the conduct of U.S. foreign policy. Every diplomatic mission in the world operates under a security program designed and maintained by Diplomatic Security. In the United States, Diplomatic Security personnel protect the Secretary of State and high-ranking foreign dignitaries and officials visiting the United States, investigates passport and visa fraud, and conducts personnel security investigations. Operating from a global platform in 31 U.S. cities and more than 160 foreign countries, DS ensures that America can conduct diplomacy safely and securely. DS plays a vital role in protecting 275 U.S. diplomatic missions and their personnel overseas, securing critical information systems, investigating passport and visa fraud, and fighting the war on terror. DS is NOT a member of the U.S. intelligence community (IC).

• INR: The Bureau of Intelligence and Research's (INR) primary mission is to harness intelligence to serve U.S. diplomacy. Drawing on all-source intelligence, INR provides value-added independent analysis of events to U.S. State Department policymakers; ensures that intelligence activities support foreign policy and national security purposes; and serves as the focal point in the State Department for ensuring policy review of sensitive counterintelligence and law enforcement activities around the world. The bureau also analyzes geographical and international boundary issues. The Bureau of Intelligence and Research is a member of the IC [seventeen separate organizations united to form the Intelligence Community (IC)].

You are, most likely, confused with the National Counterterrorism Center (NCTC), which is one of six subsidiary centers of the Office of the Director of National Intelligence (ODNI). ODNI operates under the Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act of 2004.

• NCTC: NCTC serves as the primary organization in the U.S. government for integrating and analyzing all intelligence pertaining to terrorism possessed or acquired by the U.S. government (except purely domestic terrorism); serves as the central and shared knowledge bank on terrorism information; and ensures that agencies receive all-source intelligence support needed to execute their counterterrorism plans or to perform independent, alternative analysis, and receive the intelligence needed to accomplish their assigned activities.

NCTC serves as the principal advisor to the DNI on intelligence operations and analysis relating to counterterrorism, advising the DNI on how well US intelligence activities, programs, and budget proposals for counterterrorism conform to priorities established by the President.

Unique among US agencies, NCTC serves as the primary organization responsible for strategic operational planning for counterterrorism. Operating under the policy direction of the President and the National Security Council, NCTC provides interagency planning and assessments of US strategic counterterrorism programs and activities.​

While the Department of State (DOS) is the publisher of the list of Foreign Terrorist Organizations (FTO), and the designator, the detection and identification of individuals is a collaborative effort through the IC and in cooperation with ODNI and its NCTC. It is not a unique designation made unilaterally by DOS/INR.

Most Respectfully,
R

No Bureau of Counter Terrorism? So who the hell are these people, cited in the U.S. Department of State website? Foreign Terrorist Organizations

 

[RoccoR]

Challenger, et al,

Well, you caught me in a tangle. Technically I am wrong and apologize. I guess I should have mentioned it since it was on the web page I linked to you in the previous comment. I should have said; "there is no Bureau of Counterterrorism within the Department of State that has an active roll in countering international terrorism."

No Bureau of Counter Terrorism? So who the hell are these people, cited in the U.S. Department of State website? Foreign Terrorist Organizations

(COMMENT)

There is such an thing as the Bureau of Counterterrorism (CT), to the office of the Under Secretary for Civilian Security, Democracy, and Human Rights (J). But this is not an operational activity; more diplomatic and administrative (forge partnerships with non-state actors, multilateral organizations, and foreign governments). It has no mission other than in developing coordinated strategies to defeat terrorists abroad and in securing the cooperation of international partners. CT is a subset of CI (Counterintelligence). CI is, by law [50 USC §401a(3)], the activity that tasked to gather, and activities conducted, to protect against espionage, other intelligence activities, sabotage, or assassinations conducted by or on behalf of foreign governments or elements thereof, foreign organizations, or foreign persons, or international terrorist activities. The CT Bureau does NOT conduct active operations or activities to protect against international terrorism. That belongs to the organizations in the IC that I previously mentioned. CT Bureau of CSD&HR is not a member of the Intelligence Community.

Again, I stand corrected in the absolute sense (I made a mistake). There are many organizations in the Government which have a CT Office of some sort that merely makes plans based on being a consumer of CT information from active collectors in the IC. The DoS, is the ultimate beaucracy in which they have splintered the CT role among several activities. The J/CT does maintain the FTO List, but it is not based on anything they did, but on the product of others with Law Enforcement and the IC.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

Rocco, you have never specified what criteria these clowns use to justify their terrorist name calling thing.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I've never actually sat in any of the determination meetings. So, up front, I cannot tell you how they actually establish the list.

Rocco, you have never specified what criteria these clowns use to justify their terrorist name calling thing.

(COMMENT)

I do know that recommendations for inclusion on the list, must --- as a minimum, demonstrate how a candidate meets the following criteria established by law.

Definitions of Terrorism in the U.S. Code

18 U.S.C. § 2331 defines "international terrorism" and "domestic terrorism" for purposes of Chapter 113B of the Code, entitled "Terrorism”:

"International terrorism" means activities with the following three characteristics:​

• • Involve violent acts or acts dangerous to human life that violate federal or state law;
  • Appear to be intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and
  • Occur primarily outside the territorial jurisdiction of the U.S., or transcend national boundaries in terms of the means by which they are accomplished, the persons they appear intended to intimidate or coerce, or the locale in which their perpetrators operate or seek asylum.*

"Domestic terrorism" means activities with the following three characteristics:​

• • Involve acts dangerous to human life that violate federal or state law;
  • Appear intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination. or kidnapping; and
  • Occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the U.S.

18 U.S.C. § 2332b defines the term "federal crime of terrorism" as an offense that:​

• • Is calculated to influence or affect the conduct of government by intimidation or coercion, or to retaliate against government conduct; and
  • Is a violation of one of several listed statutes, including § 930(c) (relating to killing or attempted killing during an attack on a federal facility with a dangerous weapon); and § 1114 (relating to killing or attempted killing of officers and employees of the U.S.).

Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (1978)(FISA) defines "international terrorism" in a nearly identical way, replacing "primarily" outside the US with "totally" outside the US --- 50 U.S.C. § 1801(c).

(c)“International terrorism” means activities that—

(1) involve violent acts or acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State, or that would be a criminal violation if committed within the jurisdiction of the United States or any State;
(2) appear to be intended—

(A) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
(B) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or
(C) to affect the conduct of a government by assassination or kidnapping; and​

(3) occur totally outside the United States, or transcend national boundaries in terms of the means by which they are accomplished, the persons they appear intended to coerce or intimidate, or the locale in which their perpetrators operate or seek asylum.
​

However, I am led to believe that there are other political and diplomatic considerations that also enter into the equation. And, there are at times, CONFIDENTIAL determinations that find that it may not be in the best interest of the US to make a public or open determination that might hamper the detection, exploitation and neutralization of such a target. I just know that --- as a minimum, the above criteria must be addressed before a recommendation would be favorably put forward for even consideration.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I've never actually sat in any of the determination meetings. So, up front, I cannot tell you how they actually establish the list.

Rocco, you have never specified what criteria these clowns use to justify their terrorist name calling thing.

(COMMENT)

I do know that recommendations for inclusion on the list, must --- as a minimum, demonstrate how a candidate meets the following criteria established by law.

Definitions of Terrorism in the U.S. Code

18 U.S.C. § 2331 defines "international terrorism" and "domestic terrorism" for purposes of Chapter 113B of the Code, entitled "Terrorism”:

"International terrorism" means activities with the following three characteristics:​

• • Involve violent acts or acts dangerous to human life that violate federal or state law;
  • Appear to be intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and
  • Occur primarily outside the territorial jurisdiction of the U.S., or transcend national boundaries in terms of the means by which they are accomplished, the persons they appear intended to intimidate or coerce, or the locale in which their perpetrators operate or seek asylum.*

"Domestic terrorism" means activities with the following three characteristics:​

• • Involve acts dangerous to human life that violate federal or state law;
  • Appear intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination. or kidnapping; and
  • Occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the U.S.

18 U.S.C. § 2332b defines the term "federal crime of terrorism" as an offense that:​

• • Is calculated to influence or affect the conduct of government by intimidation or coercion, or to retaliate against government conduct; and
  • Is a violation of one of several listed statutes, including § 930(c) (relating to killing or attempted killing during an attack on a federal facility with a dangerous weapon); and § 1114 (relating to killing or attempted killing of officers and employees of the U.S.).

Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (1978)(FISA) defines "international terrorism" in a nearly identical way, replacing "primarily" outside the US with "totally" outside the US --- 50 U.S.C. § 1801(c).

(c)“International terrorism” means activities that—

(1) involve violent acts or acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State, or that would be a criminal violation if committed within the jurisdiction of the United States or any State;
(2) appear to be intended—

(A) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
(B) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or
(C) to affect the conduct of a government by assassination or kidnapping; and​

(3) occur totally outside the United States, or transcend national boundaries in terms of the means by which they are accomplished, the persons they appear intended to coerce or intimidate, or the locale in which their perpetrators operate or seek asylum.​

However, I am led to believe that there are other political and diplomatic considerations that also enter into the equation. And, there are at times, CONFIDENTIAL determinations that find that it may not be in the best interest of the US to make a public or open determination that might hamper the detection, exploitation and neutralization of such a target. I just know that --- as a minimum, the above criteria must be addressed before a recommendation would be favorably put forward for even consideration.

Most Respectfully,
R

Still nothing, huh?

 

[Hossfly]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I've never actually sat in any of the determination meetings. So, up front, I cannot tell you how they actually establish the list.

Rocco, you have never specified what criteria these clowns use to justify their terrorist name calling thing.

(COMMENT)

I do know that recommendations for inclusion on the list, must --- as a minimum, demonstrate how a candidate meets the following criteria established by law.

Definitions of Terrorism in the U.S. Code

18 U.S.C. § 2331 defines "international terrorism" and "domestic terrorism" for purposes of Chapter 113B of the Code, entitled "Terrorism”:

"International terrorism" means activities with the following three characteristics:​

• • Involve violent acts or acts dangerous to human life that violate federal or state law;
  • Appear to be intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and
  • Occur primarily outside the territorial jurisdiction of the U.S., or transcend national boundaries in terms of the means by which they are accomplished, the persons they appear intended to intimidate or coerce, or the locale in which their perpetrators operate or seek asylum.*

"Domestic terrorism" means activities with the following three characteristics:​

• • Involve acts dangerous to human life that violate federal or state law;
  • Appear intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination. or kidnapping; and
  • Occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the U.S.

18 U.S.C. § 2332b defines the term "federal crime of terrorism" as an offense that:​

• • Is calculated to influence or affect the conduct of government by intimidation or coercion, or to retaliate against government conduct; and
  • Is a violation of one of several listed statutes, including § 930(c) (relating to killing or attempted killing during an attack on a federal facility with a dangerous weapon); and § 1114 (relating to killing or attempted killing of officers and employees of the U.S.).

Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (1978)(FISA) defines "international terrorism" in a nearly identical way, replacing "primarily" outside the US with "totally" outside the US --- 50 U.S.C. § 1801(c).

(c)“International terrorism” means activities that—

(1) involve violent acts or acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State, or that would be a criminal violation if committed within the jurisdiction of the United States or any State;
(2) appear to be intended—

(A) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
(B) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or
(C) to affect the conduct of a government by assassination or kidnapping; and​

(3) occur totally outside the United States, or transcend national boundaries in terms of the means by which they are accomplished, the persons they appear intended to coerce or intimidate, or the locale in which their perpetrators operate or seek asylum.​

However, I am led to believe that there are other political and diplomatic considerations that also enter into the equation. And, there are at times, CONFIDENTIAL determinations that find that it may not be in the best interest of the US to make a public or open determination that might hamper the detection, exploitation and neutralization of such a target. I just know that --- as a minimum, the above criteria must be addressed before a recommendation would be favorably put forward for even consideration.

Most Respectfully,
R

Still nothing, huh?

You win, Dingleberry. There are no Palestinian terrorists. Now get your narrow butt to bed.

 

[Rehmani]

Answer, : AL-Quran is not written by any one, AL-Quran is sent By Allah(God) and Received by Prophet Mohammad PBUH, like Bible(Ingeel) By Jesus PBUH and Tourat by Moses PBUH. AL-Quran is talking about a lot issues, you are only coating, what you attract as a common reader, but in my point of view AL-Quran is also saying that Jews and Christian are your brothers because they also own book of Allah.
But I will advise to you please see some Muslim scholar near around you to correct misunderstanding.

The Koran was altered even as it was being recited by the mentally defective camel herder. His words were written down by scribes and then collated into the Koran. Most of the Koran is stolen from the Bible and Torah by Mohamed, then twisted to suit his agenda.
The Bible was written by many people over a long period of time based on the teachings of Christ and his disciples. Jesus did not write any of the Bible as he was dead long before it was written. The Torah again was written by many people over the years and was not written by Moses, much of it predates Moses by many centuries.
The Koran states that Jews and Christians were originally declared as "people of the book" only to later be called apes and pigs and to be seen as enemies of islam. This is why it commands the muslims to kill them when they find them. Because the person reciting the Koran was simplistic his rendition was also simplistic and based on single verses.

I saw a muslim scholar walk of if anger and hate when it was shown that the Koran taught terrorism, and he blamed the Jews for not letting him know.

You are wrong, because Mohammad PBUH was illiterate and the He PBUH recite Al-Quran, no one else can recite at the time in Arab

Answer, : AL-Quran is not written by any one, AL-Quran is sent By Allah(God) and Received by Prophet Mohammad PBUH, like Bible(Ingeel) By Jesus PBUH and Tourat by Moses PBUH. AL-Quran is talking about a lot issues, you are only coating, what you attract as a common reader, but in my point of view AL-Quran is also saying that Jews and Christian are your brothers because they also own book of Allah.
But I will advise to you please see some Muslim scholar near around you to correct misunderstanding.

The Koran was altered even as it was being recited by the mentally defective camel herder. His words were written down by scribes and then collated into the Koran. Most of the Koran is stolen from the Bible and Torah by Mohamed, then twisted to suit his agenda.
The Bible was written by many people over a long period of time based on the teachings of Christ and his disciples. Jesus did not write any of the Bible as he was dead long before it was written. The Torah again was written by many people over the years and was not written by Moses, much of it predates Moses by many centuries.
The Koran states that Jews and Christians were originally declared as "people of the book" only to later be called apes and pigs and to be seen as enemies of islam. This is why it commands the muslims to kill them when they find them. Because the person reciting the Koran was simplistic his rendition was also simplistic and based on single verses.

I saw a muslim scholar walk of if anger and hate when it was shown that the Koran taught terrorism, and he blamed the Jews for not letting him know.

You are wrong, because Mohammad PBUH was illiterate and He PBUH recite Al-Quran, no one else can recite at the time in Arab like him PBUH. Means he PBUH can not steal from other holly books but His PBUH message is as same as his PBUH predecessor in the line of prophets.But Prophet Mohammad PBUH was the AUTHOR of book of Allah(God) Al-Quran.
First there are no such a message killed Jews or Christian if there is then it is also apply on Muslim too, especially those who proved hypocrites not beleaver of the Holy Books.
As you know always hypocrites cause trouble to Prophets Like hypocrites jews cause trouble to Moses PBUH and Jesus PBUH.
Please don't be ignorant.

Try this for size then

Quran (3:151) - "Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority". This speaks directly of polytheists, yet it also includes Christians, since they believe in the Trinity (ie. what Muhammad incorrectly believed to be 'joining companions to Allah').

What ever in AL-Quran is "word of Allah(God)" Prophet Mohammad PBUH just Passed on to us, as I reply to you in previous two posts, please follow the advise see some muslim near you to correct your misunderstanding or may be you are reading wrong book.

Like all holy books the Koran is the word of man, not god. It was a mentally defective man that recited the Koran in the 7c, a man that had frontal lobe epilepsy that manifests as delusions, hearing voices and seeing visions. No other person saw or heard these visitations, and as the hadiths tell us Mohamed often recited a different version on the verses on two seperate days. The consensus of opinion is that one of his sex slaves a Jewish girl told him of the Torah and its teachings and he used her stories as the basis for the Koran. He added verses extolling violence and murder because that is what most arabs of the time understood. One arab group worshipped 3 goddesses that manifested as cranes so he introduced them as allahs wives in one section of the Koran. He later claimed that this was given to him by the devil, but did not take them out and have them changed. The Koran is full of mistakes from a god that is supposed to be omnipotent like seminal fluid coming from the spine.

I have seen many muslim clerics in my life and not one has been able to explain the satanic verses, the many mistakes and the violence. I had one who stated that Mohamed had never killed a man in his life, then I showed him the Bukhari hadiths that show he killed many in clod blood. Another denied that he was an Incestuous paedophile until he read the Bukhari hadiths that show he married his brothers 9 year old daughter after changing the laws to allow him to do so.

So it is you that needs to get your brain into gear and read the Koran and hadiths properly to see that it is plagiarism and a terrorist manual.

If you don't beleave in any holy book means you will remain arrogant or ignorant .
I also beleave that Mohammad PBUH never killed any thing.
Mohammad PBUH married to his friend's 9 years old daughter.
I will advise you again that please don't writ misunderstood story, find some Muslim scholar near you and take 8 C Al-Quran and these hadiths with you and correct your self.

 

[Challenger]

Challenger, et al,

Well, you caught me in a tangle. Technically I am wrong and apologize. I guess I should have mentioned it since it was on the web page I linked to you in the previous comment. I should have said; "there is no Bureau of Counterterrorism within the Department of State that has an active roll in countering international terrorism."

No Bureau of Counter Terrorism? So who the hell are these people, cited in the U.S. Department of State website? Foreign Terrorist Organizations

(COMMENT)

There is such an thing as the Bureau of Counterterrorism (CT), to the office of the Under Secretary for Civilian Security, Democracy, and Human Rights (J). But this is not an operational activity; more diplomatic and administrative (forge partnerships with non-state actors, multilateral organizations, and foreign governments). It has no mission other than in developing coordinated strategies to defeat terrorists abroad and in securing the cooperation of international partners. CT is a subset of CI (Counterintelligence). CI is, by law [50 USC §401a(3)], the activity that tasked to gather, and activities conducted, to protect against espionage, other intelligence activities, sabotage, or assassinations conducted by or on behalf of foreign governments or elements thereof, foreign organizations, or foreign persons, or international terrorist activities. The CT Bureau does NOT conduct active operations or activities to protect against international terrorism. That belongs to the organizations in the IC that I previously mentioned. CT Bureau of CSD&HR is not a member of the Intelligence Community.

Again, I stand corrected in the absolute sense (I made a mistake). There are many organizations in the Government which have a CT Office of some sort that merely makes plans based on being a consumer of CT information from active collectors in the IC. The DoS, is the ultimate beaucracy in which they have splintered the CT role among several activities. The J/CT does maintain the FTO List, but it is not based on anything they did, but on the product of others with Law Enforcement and the IC.

Most Respectfully,
R

Hey, don't worry about it. Makes us even for that "2 Egyptian Divisions in the Sinai" faux-pas of mine a while back. .

 

[Youch]

The Europeans of the Jewish faith that went to Israel starting in the late 1800s have nothing to do with the ancient Jews that stole the land from the Samartins, Canaens etc.

Did you purposely miss the point? Or the history of the area? Judaism in Jerusalem pre-dated Christianity in Bethlehem by about a 1000 years, both of which pre-dated Islam in the region by a long shot.

Palestine didn't exist until relatively recent population growth forced (mostly Jordanians) to migrate. But that is long after the fact. Meanwhile the real children and inhabitants of the region have been obscured by anti-Semite academia. Prove me wrong!

And who are the Samartins? You mean the Samaritans?

I hope you have an open mind about such things, as much can be poured in.

 

[P F Tinmore]

....People of Palestine actually decide they want a "State" and are willing to support a reasonable government.

There, you hit the nail right on the head. "...a reasonable government." Reasonable, in who's eyes? If the Palestinian people held free and fair elections, supervised by the UN and voted in a Hamas government, would the West recognise it? Oh wait, they did, in 2006; that worked well didn't it? Hamas were ready to talk then and America was ready to accept the result of the democratic vote. The US State Department got ready to recognise the new government...and then the Zionist lobby and their masters in Israel went into overdrive and we have the current mess. A "reasonable government" really means one who does what it's told by the Zionists, doesn't it?

Link to show that hamas was prepared to talk on matters of peace and mutual borders, and not some partisan source either that matches your agenda

 

[montelatici]

The Europeans of the Jewish faith that went to Israel starting in the late 1800s have nothing to do with the ancient Jews that stole the land from the Samartins, Canaens etc.

Did you purposely miss the point? Or the history of the area?

Palestine didn't exist until relatively recent population growth forced (mostly Jordanians) to migrate. But that is long after the fact. Meanwhile the real children and inhabitants of the region have been obscured by anti-Semite academia. Prove me wrong!

And who are the Samartins? You mean the Samaritans?

I hope you have an open mind about such things, as much can be poured in.

1. "Judaism in Jerusalem pre-dated Christianity in Bethlehem by about a 1000 years, both of which pre-dated Islam in the region by a long shot."

So what? People change religions all the time. If a group of people in Kenya convert to mos maiorum it does not give them the right to settle in Rome and declare themselves a state.

2. The "real children and inhabitants of the region" are the people (descendants) that have lived in the region for the last 4,000-5,000 years. Converting to the most convenient religion does not change the people.

3. "Palestine didn't exist until relatively recent population growth forced (mostly Jordanians) to migrate."

As usual, Zionist horseshit.

"There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ.* (*See Sir George Adam Smith "Historical Geography of the Holy Land", Chap. 20.) Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants.

The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost all have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews. - See more at: Mandate for Palestine - Interim report of the Mandatory to the League of Nations Balfour Declaration text 30 July 1921

 

[docmauser1]

"There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ.* (*See Sir George Adam Smith "Historical Geography of the Holy Land", Chap. 20.) Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants. ...

"So far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country and multiplied till their population has increased more than even all world Jewry could lift up the Jewish population." Winnie Churchill.

 

[montelatici]

"There are now in the whole of Palestine hardly 700,000 people, a population much less than that of the province of Gallilee alone in the time of Christ.* (*See Sir George Adam Smith "Historical Geography of the Holy Land", Chap. 20.) Of these 235,000 live in the larger towns, 465,000 in the smaller towns and villages. Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. A small proportion of these are Bedouin Arabs; the remainder, although they speak Arabic and are termed Arabs, are largely of mixed race. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The minority are members of the Latin or of the Uniate Greek Catholic Church, or--a small number--are Protestants. ...

"So far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country and multiplied till their population has increased more than even all world Jewry could lift up the Jewish population." Winnie Churchill.

The Mandatory Interim Report, quoted above, was written in 1921, Churchill made the politically motivated statement (which was a lie) in 1939 to counter the Government's insistence that Jewish immigration to Palestine should be moderated to mitigate the local population's demonstrations against the takeover of their land. A political statement is far less reliable than official Government reports. If you would do more research you probably would not just spout nonsense without understanding the context. Churchill was responding to this:

"'His Majesty's Government do not [..] find anything in the Mandate or in subsequent Statements of Policy to support the view that the establishment of a Jewish National Home in Palestine cannot be effected unless immigration is allowed to continue indefinitely. If immigration has an adverse effect on the economic position in the country, it should clearly be restricted; and equally, if it has a seriously damaging effect on the political position in the country, that is a factor that should not be ignored. Although it is not difficult to contend that the large number of Jewish immigrants who have been admitted so far have been absorbed economically, the fear of the Arabs that this influx will continue indefinitely until the Jewish population is in a position to dominate them has produced consequences which are extremely grave for Jews and Arabs alike and for the peace and prosperity of Palestine."

White Paper of 1939

The Avalon Project British White Paper of 1939

 

[P F Tinmore]

Challenger, et al,

I think you made an assumption here, that is not in evidence.

....People of Palestine actually decide they want a "State" and are willing to support a reasonable government.

There, you hit the nail right on the head. "...a reasonable government." Reasonable, in who's eyes? If the Palestinian people held free and fair elections, supervised by the UN and voted in a Hamas government, would the West recognise it? Oh wait, they did, in 2006; that worked well didn't it? Hamas were ready to talk then and America was ready to accept the result of the democratic vote. The US State Department got ready to recognise the new government...and then the Zionist lobby and their masters in Israel went into overdrive and we have the current mess. A "reasonable government" really means one who does what it's told by the Zionists, doesn't it?

(COMMENT)

What the rest of the world community recognizes or does not recognize is a matter of diplomacy. But what the US can recognize and support is a matter of law. And the law of the land is very specific relative to the a designated terrorist organization (ie HAMAS).

Legal Ramifications of Designation

1. It is unlawful for a person in the United States or subject to the jurisdiction of the United States to knowingly provide "material support or resources" to a designated FTO. (The term "material support or resources" is defined in 18 U.S.C. § 2339A(b)(1) as " any property, tangible or intangible, or service, including currency or monetary instruments or financial securities, financial services, lodging, training, expert advice or assistance, safehouses, false documentation or identification, communications equipment, facilities, weapons, lethal substances, explosives, personnel (1 or more individuals who maybe or include oneself), and transportation, except medicine or religious materials.” 18 U.S.C. § 2339A(b)(2) provides that for these purposes “the term ‘training’ means instruction or teaching designed to impart a specific skill, as opposed to general knowledge.” 18 U.S.C. § 2339A(b)(3) further provides that for these purposes the term ‘expert advice or assistance’ means advice or assistance derived from scientific, technical or other specialized knowledge.’’
2. Representatives and members of a designated FTO, if they are aliens, are inadmissible to and, in certain circumstances, removable from the United States (see 8 U.S.C. §§ 1182 (a)(3)(B)(i)(IV)-(V), 1227 (a)(1)(A)).
3. Any U.S. financial institution that becomes aware that it has possession of or control over funds in which a designated FTO or its agent has an interest must retain possession of or control over the funds and report the funds to the Office of Foreign Assets Control of the U.S. Department of the Treasury.

It had nothing to do with a "Zionist Lobby." The law has been in place since the 1970's and the rise of Palestinian Terrorism. The fact that the People of Palestine chose to elect (freely) a terrorist organization has automatic consequences. The Zionist Lobby had nothing to do with HAMAS being designated in 1997 as a terrorist group. And a decade later (2006), when it became a political entity by the peoples choice, the Counterintelligence Community threw the red flag. It is a matter of law, not politics. HAMAS earned its place on the designated terrorist list. And the People of Palestine have to accept the consequences of their actions. It is as simple as that.

As usual, the Palestinians shot themselves in the foot and now want to blame everyone else for their self-inflected wound except the ones responsible (the People of Palestine).

Most Respectfully,
R

Load of crap, Rocco.

The US government does not give a rat's ass about law international or domestic. The best example is the Palestinian unity government of 2007. The unity government was legally elected and constituted according to constitutional mandates.

The US did not like this government so they fomented a coup. They coerced Abbas into this coup and supplied him with money, weapons, training and political support i.e. lies.

The coup failed in Gaza but was successful in illegally putting the losers of the elections back into power in the West Bank.

Fomenting a coup in another country is a violation of international law.

Supporting a government brought into power by coup is a violation of domestic law.

 

[Challenger]

...Try looking in the mirror for the thick one, the latin kingdom of Jerusalem was a city state invented by some crusaders. Judea was in existence before the Roman Empire was thought of. And for your Information Judea was in Palestine.

Stop press! Phoney recognises the existance of Palestine 1000's of years ago