Who here is collecting retirement social security??

[SwimExpert]

If everyone is getting 15 bucks an hour, where does that leave us retirees?

You can all die tomorrow, for all I care. I'm sick and tired of you entitled welfare junkies getting a free ride off of MY tax money.

 

[Skull Pilot]

So you never heard of service businesses?

Couldnt answer my simple question eh?

What service business that I as a solidly middle class person use is paid only MW?
HVAC? Not even close. Lawn service? Nope, do my own.

Come on you always have an answer.

What services do you use that is paid MW?

House cleaners, My landscaper pays MW for his lawn mower riders,

Distribution companies around here pay their order pickers MW so any business they serve will see higher prices therefore any customer of those businesses will see a corresponding raise in prices for goods

It isn't rocket science when labor costs go up prices go up
And since you don't seem to know this when payroll goes up so does workman's comp, state and federal unemployment taxes and payroll taxes all increase.

Who do you think all those cost increases will get passed on to?

 

[Picaro]

So should the FEDS mandate that we get a living wage also?
If everyone is getting 15 bucks an hour, where does that leave us retirees?
Doesn't that move the economy past us? We didn't even get a cola this year.
Down the road this doesn't help the 65 and old crowd

Don't buy the stupid myth that raising minimum wage to reflect real inflation over the years is somehow going to hurt you or anybody else on Social Security. For one thing, it will increase revenues into the system back to near what older people paid into the system in real dollars before 1973, the pre- 'oil crisis' years; we paid something like 3% in in those days, now they pay 7.5% iirc, on far lower wages, and aren't paying as much in adjusted dollars as people were at 3%.

Worker productivity rates are through the roof, and have been climbing throughout the entire 20th century. Raising minimum wage won't hurt the economy, or raise prices much at all, in any field.

If you raise the MW on a business that pays its low skilled workers 7.50 an hour then prices will go up
You can't double labor costs and not see prices rise

So anyone who is already making 15 and hour will see their purchasing power decline which will mean less consumer activity because they will have less disposable income

... and the realistic answer is 'So What???' Prices go up regardless of wages, especially minimum wages. Importing millions of illegals to work in the construction industry during the housing bubbles, for example, didn't lower housing prices one red cent, same for many other industries. As for fast food businesses, the price increases would be tiny, and that is true for many other industries. Labor costs are a tiny percentage of business costs, with few exceptions.

As for the 'automation' argument, that has been going on since the industrial revolution began in the 18th century, and it goes on in the agricultural sector as well, despite millions of illegals working off the books for chickenfeed.

All cheap labor does is allow crappy business owners to stay in business longer against honest competent business owners, punishing the competent; providing a bottom for wages doesn't hamper genuine competition.

 

[Wilbur Right]

Perhaps surprisingly, not very many people earn minimum wage, and they make up a smaller share of the workforce than they used to. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, last year 1.532 million hourly workers earned the federal minimum of $7.25 an hour; nearly 1.8 million more earned less than that because they fell under one of several exemptions (tipped employees, full-time students, certain disabled workers and others), for a total of 3.3 million hourly workers at or below the federal minimum.

That group represents 4.3% of the nation’s 75.9 million hourly-paid workers and 2.6% of all wage and salary workers. In 1979, when the BLS began regularly studying minimum-wage workers, they represented 13.4% of hourly workers and 7.9% of all wage and salary workers. (Bear in mind that the 3.3 million figure doesn’t include salaried workers, although BLS says relatively few salaried workers are paid at what would translate into below-minimum hourly rates. Also, 23 states, as well as the District of Columbia, have higher minimum wages than the federal standard; people who earned the state minimum wage in those jurisdictions aren’t included in the 3.3 million total.)

People at or below the federal minimum are:

• Disproportionately young: 50.4% are ages 16 to 24; 24% are teenagers (ages 16 to 19).
• Mostly (77%) white; nearly half are white women.
• Largely part-time workers (64% of the total).

They’re employed in the industries and occupations you might expect: More than half (55%) work in the leisure and hospitality industry, about 14% in retail, 8% in education and health services, and the rest scattered among other industries. Broken down occupationally, the picture is similar: Nearly 47% are in food-preparation and serving-related occupations; 14.5% are in sales and related occupations, 7% in personal care and service occupations, and the rest are scattered.




Most powerful group of workers in america. Minimum wage.


You ever hear of supply and demand skull?

If your housekeeper says to you that they will be doubling the amount they charge you, what arenyou going to do? Quit cleaning your house? Or do it yourself? Same with your grass, pool cleaners. Pay double or do it yourself?


You didnt list one occupation provided by MW workers that would make me pay more for the service provided. Not one.

Supply and demand would indicate that a company primarily using MW workers would not be able raise their prices without losing business. Because the service provided by MW workers is not critical.

Because there is nothing produced by MW workers that people HAVE to buy and pay a large increase in prices.

Food might be an exception. But a lot of that harvest is done by migrant workers or illegals. And they are not protected by MW laws, so an increase in MW will likely not effect them or food prices.

Face it skull. You just want that cheap labor to afford a lifestyle you have become accustomed to. Cut your grass, clean your house. All on the cheap. Do you employee illegals? They work real cheap I hear.

 

[Skull Pilot]

So should the FEDS mandate that we get a living wage also?
If everyone is getting 15 bucks an hour, where does that leave us retirees?
Doesn't that move the economy past us? We didn't even get a cola this year.
Down the road this doesn't help the 65 and old crowd

Don't buy the stupid myth that raising minimum wage to reflect real inflation over the years is somehow going to hurt you or anybody else on Social Security. For one thing, it will increase revenues into the system back to near what older people paid into the system in real dollars before 1973, the pre- 'oil crisis' years; we paid something like 3% in in those days, now they pay 7.5% iirc, on far lower wages, and aren't paying as much in adjusted dollars as people were at 3%.

Worker productivity rates are through the roof, and have been climbing throughout the entire 20th century. Raising minimum wage won't hurt the economy, or raise prices much at all, in any field.

If you raise the MW on a business that pays its low skilled workers 7.50 an hour then prices will go up
You can't double labor costs and not see prices rise

So anyone who is already making 15 and hour will see their purchasing power decline which will mean less consumer activity because they will have less disposable income

... and the realistic answer is 'So What???' Prices go up regardless of wages, especially minimum wages. Importing millions of illegals to work in the construction industry during the housing bubbles, for example, didn't lower housing prices one red cent, same for many other industries. As for fast food businesses, the price increases would be tiny, and that is true for many other industries. Labor costs are a tiny percentage of business costs, with few exceptions.

As for the 'automation' argument, that has been going on since the industrial revolution began in the 18th century, and it goes on in the agricultural sector as well, despite millions of illegals working off the books for chickenfeed.

All cheap labor does is allow crappy business owners to stay in business longer against honest competent business owners, punishing the competent; providing a bottom for wages doesn't hamper genuine competition.

So what if prices go up?

People will just buy less and in a consumer economy you think that is a good thing right?

FYI the prices of high end stuff won't be as effected it's the lower cost stuff that will see the most price increases and who gets hurt the most when low cost goods get more expensive?

 

[Carla_Danger]

By the time I retire, I fully expect that SS will have utterly collapsed into insolvency.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you keep voting Republican, that's a very strong possibility.

 

[Iceweasel]

By the time I retire, I fully expect that SS will have utterly collapsed into insolvency.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you keep voting Republican, that's a very strong possibility.

What's the Democrat plan?

 

[NightFox]

So should the FEDS mandate that we get a living wage also?
If everyone is getting 15 bucks an hour, where does that leave us retirees?

Good question, Unfortunately I cannot answer that one since I'm looking forward to paying into Social Security throughout my entire career and then getting royally fucked (as in SORRY PAL, MONEY IS ALL GONE) when it comes time to collect.

 

[Carla_Danger]

By the time I retire, I fully expect that SS will have utterly collapsed into insolvency.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you keep voting Republican, that's a very strong possibility.

What's the Democrat plan?

We can start by lifting the cap.

 

[Iceweasel]

By the time I retire, I fully expect that SS will have utterly collapsed into insolvency.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you keep voting Republican, that's a very strong possibility.

What's the Democrat plan?

We can start by lifting the cap.

Doesn't sound like a plan to fix it.

 

[Picaro]

Good question, Unfortunately I cannot answer that one since I'm looking forward to paying into Social Security throughout my entire career and then getting royally fucked (as in SORRY PAL, MONEY IS ALL GONE) when it comes time to collect.

The usual meme. If it 'gone' by the time you retire it will be because your Congressman, and everybody else's Congressmen, raided the fund to build roads for their real estate cronies in their districts and other kinds of pork. See 'Libertarian' con artists like Ron Paul's record of pork for his district for just one fine example of the 'do what I say, but don't do what I do' mentality that pervades GOP Congressmen and ?Senators no less than it does the 'evul Democrats'. We had a great example of this with the Bush II administration, who peddled the ridiculous 'conservative' economic farce that you could 'cut taxes and increase spending' BS GOP voters fell all over themselves voting for. They all love pork and corporate welfare; it's just 'the other guy's' pork they don't like.

 

[Picaro]

So what if prices go up?

People will just buy less and in a consumer economy you think that is a good thing right?

FYI the prices of high end stuff won't be as effected it's the lower cost stuff that will see the most price increases and who gets hurt the most when low cost goods get more expensive?

Again, so what? It will increase the buying power of far more people than it will lose, which will in turn increase consumption, and create more jobs according to your own theory, so your argument doesn't hold up yet again. And I repeat, wages aren't the primary cause of inflation, shipping all the high productivity jobs overseas is. Your race to the bottom theories don't hold water, and never have. People making $1.25 an hour don't spend much either.

There are two choices here: inflation or deflation. Pick one.

 

[Skull Pilot]

So what if prices go up?

People will just buy less and in a consumer economy you think that is a good thing right?

FYI the prices of high end stuff won't be as effected it's the lower cost stuff that will see the most price increases and who gets hurt the most when low cost goods get more expensive?

Again, so what? It will increase the buying power of far more people than it will lose, which will in turn increase consumption, and create more jobs according to your own theory, so your argument doesn't hold up yet again. And I repeat, wages aren't the primary cause of inflation, shipping all the high productivity jobs overseas is. Your race to the bottom theories don't hold water, and never have. People making $1.25 an hour don't spend much either.

There are two choices here: inflation or deflation. Pick one.

Sorry but it won't increase buying power
What's the sense of doubling labor costs to give a raise when that raise will be eaten up by the higher cost of goods leaving people no better off than they were before and then the people making 15 an hour and above currently will see their purchasing power drop because everything is more expensive

 

[Picaro]

Perhaps surprisingly, not very many people earn minimum wage, and they make up a smaller share of the workforce than they used to. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, last year 1.532 million hourly workers earned the federal minimum of $7.25 an hour; nearly 1.8 million more earned less than that because they fell under one of several exemptions (tipped employees, full-time students, certain disabled workers and others), for a total of 3.3 million hourly workers at or below the federal minimum.

...

Face it skull. You just want that cheap labor to afford a lifestyle you have become accustomed to. Cut your grass, clean your house. All on the cheap. Do you employee illegals? They work real cheap I hear.

Given the usual arguments against MW, I think it's obvious most of those opposed to it are just sociopaths who don't want to admit they just like screwing people on the bottom of the food chain, and it hurts their egos that they will lose some perceived status if minimum wage is increased to reflect real inflation. How is some family going to feel if their '$50K a year' income with both working full time turns out to be barely working class status compared to a realistic minimum wage level? It will highlight that '$50 K a year isn't nearly anywhere near 'middle class' for one, it's just two working class incomes combined, that's all. They'll have fewer people to look down on in the social scale. It's like those idiot Klansmen and their supporters in the 1920' and '30's who would literally die fighting to maintain the 'white man's bonus' of making % to 10 cents an hour more than a negro doing the same work; that nickle difference in 'status' meant a lot to them, all the while assaulting and killing union organizers for the Boss Man. They don't dare argue with the Boss, so they focus on keeping others in the crapper so they can feel good about making more than somebody else does, never mind the pittances involved in the differences.

 

[Picaro]

So what if prices go up?

People will just buy less and in a consumer economy you think that is a good thing right?

FYI the prices of high end stuff won't be as effected it's the lower cost stuff that will see the most price increases and who gets hurt the most when low cost goods get more expensive?

Again, so what? It will increase the buying power of far more people than it will lose, which will in turn increase consumption, and create more jobs according to your own theory, so your argument doesn't hold up yet again. And I repeat, wages aren't the primary cause of inflation, shipping all the high productivity jobs overseas is. Your race to the bottom theories don't hold water, and never have. People making $1.25 an hour don't spend much either.

There are two choices here: inflation or deflation. Pick one.

Sorry but it won't increase buying power
What's the sense of doubling labor costs to give a raise when that raise will be eaten up by the higher cost of goods leaving people no better off than they were before and then the people making 15 an hour and above currently will see their purchasing power drop because everything is more expensive

Sorry you don't understand math or know anything about how businesses price anything. For instance, you probably think Mickey D's dollar menu items will go up $ 7 dollars or something, when the added labor costs of doubling their workers' wages would add maybe 18 cents to the minimum order of a McMuffin and a drink, a $2 dollar bill. It will add far less up the meal price ladder.

Maybe you can explain where all those price increases came from when the MW stayed the same for so many years? How about the wholesale meat prices when Reagan helped the meat packers in the Midwest bust those evul union guys out? Can you find any decreases in the wholesale prices of meat in the 1980's? According to your theories, the prices should have fallen by 60%, right? ...

 

[Skull Pilot]

So what if prices go up?

People will just buy less and in a consumer economy you think that is a good thing right?

FYI the prices of high end stuff won't be as effected it's the lower cost stuff that will see the most price increases and who gets hurt the most when low cost goods get more expensive?

Again, so what? It will increase the buying power of far more people than it will lose, which will in turn increase consumption, and create more jobs according to your own theory, so your argument doesn't hold up yet again. And I repeat, wages aren't the primary cause of inflation, shipping all the high productivity jobs overseas is. Your race to the bottom theories don't hold water, and never have. People making $1.25 an hour don't spend much either.

There are two choices here: inflation or deflation. Pick one.

Sorry but it won't increase buying power
What's the sense of doubling labor costs to give a raise when that raise will be eaten up by the higher cost of goods leaving people no better off than they were before and then the people making 15 an hour and above currently will see their purchasing power drop because everything is more expensive

Sorry you don't understand math or know anything about how businesses price anything. For instance, you probably think Mickey D's dollar menu items will go up $ 7 dollars or something, when the added labor costs of doubling their workers' wages would add maybe 18 cents to the minimum order of a McMuffin and a drink, a $2 dollar bill. It will add far less up the meal price ladder.

It's not just one item you idiot
You do realize the cost of everything produced by low wage labor will increase don't you?

It's easy to use the cost of one item if you assume as you do that every other expense other than labor will stay constant FYI they won't

The cost of the paper used to wrap a burger will rise, the cost of cups and straws will rise, the cost of napkins and paper bags will rise etc etc

Do you know why they will rise? Because all those items have labor costs built into their prices

 

[Skull Pilot]

Perhaps surprisingly, not very many people earn minimum wage, and they make up a smaller share of the workforce than they used to. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, last year 1.532 million hourly workers earned the federal minimum of $7.25 an hour; nearly 1.8 million more earned less than that because they fell under one of several exemptions (tipped employees, full-time students, certain disabled workers and others), for a total of 3.3 million hourly workers at or below the federal minimum.

...

Face it skull. You just want that cheap labor to afford a lifestyle you have become accustomed to. Cut your grass, clean your house. All on the cheap. Do you employee illegals? They work real cheap I hear.

Given the usual arguments against MW, I think it's obvious most of those opposed to it are just sociopaths who don't want to admit they just like screwing people on the bottom of the food chain, and it hurts their egos that they will lose some perceived status if minimum wage is increased to reflect real inflation. How is some family going to feel if their '$50K a year' income with both working full time turns out to be barely working class status compared to a realistic minimum wage level? It will highlight that '$50 K a year isn't nearly anywhere near 'middle class' for one, it's just two working class incomes combined, that's all. They'll have fewer people to look down on in the social scale. It's like those idiot Klansmen and their supporters in the 1920' and '30's who would literally die fighting to maintain the 'white man's bonus' of making % to 10 cents an hour more than a negro doing the same work; that nickle difference in 'status' meant a lot to them, all the while assaulting and killing union organizers for the Boss Man. They don't dare argue with the Boss, so they focus on keeping others in the crapper so they can feel good about making more than somebody else does, never mind the pittances involved in the differences.

Anyone who is 21 and making MW has no one to blame but himself

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Social security is designed to keep you poor

That rather stunning bit of high-caliber right-wing propaganda must qualify you for the Rush Limbaugh citation for Outstanding Service to your Country's One Percent.

Would you please explain how Social Security manages to keep us poor? I'm having a hell of a time trying to figure it out because I keep coming up with an opposing conclusion.

Typical government dupe who doesn't like to do math

Tell me what would the money taken from you for the slush fund that is Social Security have been worth if you were able to keep it in your own private account?

Hint A hell of a lot more than the pittance you will be allowed to collect from the government

Not to mention you are taxed on it again when you collect it. Taxed when they take it, taxed when they give it back.

 

[MikeK]

Good question, Unfortunately I cannot answer that one since I'm looking forward to paying into Social Security throughout my entire career and then getting royally fucked (as in SORRY PAL, MONEY IS ALL GONE) when it comes time to collect.

You believe this because you are too young to believe you ever will get old. This is normal. In your thoughts age sixty-five is something that happens to other people.

I apologize for the discouraging news but unless something happens to take you out in advance of it you will one day reach your sixty-fifth birthday. If you're lucky you might even collect for fifteen years, like me, and possibly even longer, like I'm doing. And you will collect a hell of a lot more than you contributed.

And it will be here sooner than you think.

 

[Arizona Willie]

So should the FEDS mandate that we get a living wage also?
If everyone is getting 15 bucks an hour, where does that leave us retirees?

Good question, Unfortunately I cannot answer that one since I'm looking forward to paying into Social Security throughout my entire career and then getting royally fucked (as in SORRY PAL, MONEY IS ALL GONE) when it comes time to collect.

========
You have been drinking the Foxaide for way too long.

Social Security is NOT bankrupt.

If they simply move the earnings cap from 125K to 250K ( which will not affect most people ) SS will remain solvent to the next century.

As it is SS has a balance of 1.8 trillion dollars which is good until something like 2034.