who does Cheney think he is?

[DeadCanDance]

You mean like the Speaker of the House going to foreign Countries and conducting Foreign Policy?

Good call. I remember Speaker of the House, Newt Gingrich, doing that. Good catch, man!


On "FOX News Sunday" today, Chris Wallace confronted Newt Gingrich with the statements he made in 1997 on a trip to China in which he directly contradicted President Clinton's policy regarding Taiwan. Newt Gingrich — along with the right-wing echo chamber and short-memoried MSM — spent the week condemning Speaker Pelosi for doing what Speaker Gingrich did just a decade before. Only then, Gingrich carried a message that was in stark contrast to US foreign policy; something that Nancy Pelosi didn't do, despite baseless right-wing accusations to the contrary.


Glenn Greenwald documents the original news accounts of Gingrich's trip at Salon. It should also be noted that Dennis Hastert traveled to Colombia in 1997 to undermine President Clinton's policy towards that country. He even went so far as to say that the Columbian government should bypass the excutive and deal directly with Congress.

Fox News video at http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/04/09/chris-wallace-exposes-newt-gingrichs-pelosi-hypocrisy/

 

[Annie]

Good call. I remember Speaker of the House, Newt Gingrich, doing that. Good catch, man!


On "FOX News Sunday" today, Chris Wallace confronted Newt Gingrich with the statements he made in 1997 on a trip to China in which he directly contradicted President Clinton's policy regarding Taiwan. Newt Gingrich — along with the right-wing echo chamber and short-memoried MSM — spent the week condemning Speaker Pelosi for doing what Speaker Gingrich did just a decade before. Only then, Gingrich carried a message that was in stark contrast to US foreign policy; something that Nancy Pelosi didn't do, despite baseless right-wing accusations to the contrary.


Glenn Greenwald documents the original news accounts of Gingrich's trip at Salon. It should also be noted that Dennis Hastert traveled to Colombia in 1997 to undermine President Clinton's policy towards that country. He even went so far as to say that the Columbian government should bypass the excutive and deal directly with Congress.

Fox News video at http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/04/09/chris-wallace-exposes-newt-gingrichs-pelosi-hypocrisy/

Gingrich did have both Clinton and State Dept. ok for the trip, though he should not have said some of what he said. Ditto for Hastert. Better discussion of the issue, somewhat different than Greenwald's Salon piece, yeah I know you didn't site it, but wtf?

http://www.cfr.org/publication/1325...ongress_conduct_us_foreign_policy_abroad.html

 

[Superlative]

The White House on Friday defended Vice President Dick Cheney's decision not to cooperate with a government office charged with safeguarding national security information — and denied that Cheney ever suggested the agency be shut down.

Despite objections from the National Archives and others, presidential spokesmen say Cheney's office is not bound by certain sections of a presidential executive order that seeks to protect national security information generated by the government.

Under the order, executive branch offices are required to give the Information Security Oversight Office at the archives data on how much material they classify and declassify. Cheney's office provided the information in 2001 and 2002, then stopped.

White House deputy press secretary Dana Perino said it's clear that the president's executive order never intended for the vice president's office to be treated as an "agency."

"He's not exempt from following the laws of the United States," Perino said. "He's exempt just from this reporting requirement in this particular executive order."

Cheney's office claims it doesn't have to comply with the order because it is not an "agency" or "entity" within the executive branch, according to Henry Waxman, chairman of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, which is investigating the matter.
Waxman scoffed at the assertion, calling it "an absurdity for the ages."

"The vice president is pretending he isn't part of the executive branch and the White House is pretending that the rules for protecting classified information are being followed," he said in a statement.

"The vice president can't unilaterally decide he is his own branch of government and exempt himself from important, commonsense safeguards for protecting classified information. And he can't insist he has the powers of both the executive and the legislature branches but the responsibilities of neither. Our Constitution doesn't work that way," he said.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/06/22/national/w141513D24.DTL

 

[RetiredGySgt]

NOTE your own source says "WAXMAN" made the claim that Vice president Cheney said..... if true where is the source document? A tape of the conversation? A memo? A letter from the office of the Vice President?

Further, the matter IS settled, the President through his agents has proclaimed that the Vice President IS exempt from said Executive order. End of story.

Unless now your going to claim a Congressman can tell the president what his own orders mean and to whom they pertain.

 

[Superlative]

NOTE your own source says "WAXMAN" made the claim that Vice president Cheney said..... if true where is the source document? A tape of the conversation? A memo? A letter from the office of the Vice President?
Further, the matter IS settled, the President through his agents has proclaimed that the Vice President IS exempt from said Executive order. End of story.

Unless now your going to claim a Congressman can tell the president what his own orders mean and to whom they pertain.

Government documents and two press releases one from NYT and one from AP and you still deny this is going on?

You are thick.

"The vice president can't unilaterally decide he is his own branch of government and exempt himself from important, commonsense safeguards for protecting classified information. And he can't insist he has the powers of both the executive and the legislature branches but the responsibilities of neither. Our Constitution doesn't work that way," he said.

I dont even care any more, its just amusing how you defend these guys even when they flat out blatently ignore rules and laws, and get away with it.

 

[Bullypulpit]

http://oversight.house.gov/story.asp?ID=1371

Actually, given Darth Cheney's recent problems with DVT and past cardiac issues, including his AICD placement, I think his problem is more medical than moral.

With his past heart surgeries and problems with blood clots in his lower extremities, micro emboli have migrated to his brain, restricting blood supply and causing cerebral ischemia. This lack of oxygen to the brain has affected his cognitive function leading to his recent, delusional behavior and statements.

That's just great...Both the POTUS and VPOTUS are cognitively impaired, through different mechanisms however, and nobody seems terribly worried. Bush talks to God and Cheney thinks he's his own branch of government...And they've got their fingers on the trigger. What a freakin' creep-show.

 

[Superlative]

An executive order that Bush issued in March 2003 — amending an existing order — requires all government agencies that are part of the executive branch to submit to oversight. Although it doesn't specifically say so, Bush's order was not meant to apply to the vice president's office or the president's office, a White House spokesman said..........

Bush amended the oversight directive in response to the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks to help ensure that national secrets would not be mishandled, made public or improperly declassified.

The order aimed to create a uniform system for classifying, declassifying and otherwise safeguarding national security information. It gave the archives' oversight unit responsibility for evaluating the effectiveness of each agency's classification programs. It applied to the executive branch of government, mostly agencies led by Bush administration appointees — not to legislative offices such as Congress or to judicial offices such as the courts.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationw...ney23jun23,0,863839.story?coll=la-home-center

 

[Annie]

Part of the reason I read blogs, commonsense with facts:

http://instapundit.com/archives2/006543.php

June 23, 2007

DICK CHENEY AS A LEGISLATIVE OFFICIAL: Ed Morrissey is not impressed with this gem of a legal argument. He's right not to be, and he's right that this is a political and legal embarrassment for the Administration, but it's not because of the constitutional language he quotes.

The argument that the Vice President is a legislative official isn't inherently absurd. The Constitution gives the Vice President no executive powers: The VP's only duties are to preside over the Senate, and to become President if the serving President dies or leaves office. The Vice President really isn't an Executive official, and isn't part of the President's administration the way that other officials are -- for one thing, the VP can't be fired by the President: As an independently elected officeholder, he can be removed only by Congress, via impeachment. (In various separation of powers cases, the Supreme Court has placed a lot of weight on this who-can-fire-you test).

And traditionally VP's haven't done much. That changed when Jimmy Carter gave Fritz Mondale an unusual amount of responsibility by historical standards, and has continued with subsequent Administrations, particularly under Clinton/Gore and Bush/Cheney.

But here's the thing: Whatever executive power a VP exercises is exercised because it's delegated by the President, not because the VP has it already. So to the extent the President delegates actual power (as opposed to just taking recommendations for action) the VP is exercising executive authority delegated by the President, but unlike everyone else who does so he/she isn't subject to removal from office by the President (though the President could always withdraw the delegation, of course). However -- and here's where the claim that Cheney is really a legislative official creates problems for the White House -- it seems pretty clear that the President isn't allowed to delegate executive power to a legislative official, as that would be a separation of powers violation. So to the extent that this is what's going on, the "Cheney is a legislative official" argument is one that opens a big can of worms.

None of this is to say that the President can't, in his own capacity, decide to apply different rules to the VP (who, after all, is an elected official, unlike cabinet secretaries, NSC staffers, and the like) if he chooses. But that's a different issue entirely from the "legislative official" angle. Like a lot of the Bush Administration's arguments, this is one that would make an interesting law school paper topic, or law review article, but that is politically idiotic and legally self-defeating. It's reminiscent, as one of Capt. Ed's commenters notes, of the Clinton Administration's effort to stall Paula Jones' lawsuit by claiming that as Commander-in-Chief the President is a serving member of the military. Clever, in a way. But definitely not smart.
posted at 05:03 PM by Glenn Reynolds

 

[Superlative]

Following Vice President Dick Cheney's assertion that his office is not a part of the executive branch of the US government, Democratic Caucus Chairman Rep. Rahm Emanuel (D-IL) plans to introduce an amendment to the the Financial Services and General Government Appropriations bill to cut funding for Cheney's office.

The amendment to the bill that sets the funding for the executive branch will be considered next week in the House of Representatives.

"The Vice President has a choice to make. If he believes his legal case, his office has no business being funded as part of the executive branch," said Emanuel in a statement released to RAW STORY. "However, if he demands executive branch funding he cannot ignore executive branch rules. At the very least, the Vice President should be consistent. This amendment will ensure that the Vice President's funding is consistent with his legal arguments."

At a press briefing yesterday, White House Deputy Press Secretary Dana Perino said that Cheney's assertion that he operates outside of the executive branch of government was "an interesting constitutional question that people can debate" and a "non-issue."

On Thursday, Emanuel suggested that if Cheney feels his office is not part of the executive branch "he should return the salary the American taxpayers have been paying him since January 2001, and move out of the home for which they are footing the bill."

http://cernigsnewshog.blogspot.com/2007/06/rahm-wants-to-cut-cheneys-funding.html

http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Democrats_plan_to_cut_Cheney_out_0623.html

 

[Care4all]

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/06/22/national/w141513D24.DTL

what the heck does cheney ''have'' on bush? Even president bush abided by this executive order and allowed his office to comply with this executive order?

the executive order was a clinton executive order that bush revised to include some 911 issues but left the rest of this executive order THE SAME.

under clinton, the president and vice president were subject to this same order...

how can bush claim he ''didn't mean it to mean, what IT SAYS....'' OR THAT HE AND CHENEY ARE EXEMPT, when he changed NO PART of clinton's wording of the executive order that covered his and cheney's office on the handling of classified info?

if he wants to exempt himself and cheney, he NEEDS TO REWRITE the executive order to say such imo.

 

[Bullypulpit]

See post <a href=http://www.usmessageboard.com/showpost.php?p=579258&postcount=46>#46</a>. Cheney is suffering from cognitive impairment secondary to his cardiac status. Bush is suffering from cognitive impairment secondary to his decades of ETOH abuse.

As for Cheney, He's trying to have his cake and eat it too. He WAS a member of the executive branch when it came to denying access to the records on his "energy task force". He is now claiming that he and his office are not a part of the executive branch in order to deny access to his records. Sorry DICK, but you can't have it both ways. Rahm Emanuel (D-IL) is scheduling a vote on Thursday to zero out funding for executive branch funding for Cheney and his office, not that it'll succeed. But hey, if Cheney and his office aren't part of the executive branch, there's no need to fund them now, is there.

 

[Stephanie]

See post <a href=http://www.usmessageboard.com/showpost.php?p=579258&postcount=46>#46</a>. Cheney is suffering from cognitive impairment secondary to his cardiac status. Bush is suffering from cognitive impairment secondary to his decades of ETOH abuse.

As for Cheney, He's trying to have his cake and eat it too. He WAS a member of the executive branch when it came to denying access to the records on his "energy task force". He is now claiming that he and his office are not a part of the executive branch in order to deny access to his records. Sorry DICK, but you can't have it both ways. Rahm Emanuel (D-IL) is scheduling a vote on Thursday to zero out funding for executive branch funding for Cheney and his office, not that it'll succeed. But hey, if Cheney and his office aren't part of the executive branch, there's no need to fund them now, is there.

You all should impeach.........George Bush.....

Why the hell are going after the second in line???????????????????

Impeach George bush, impeach George bush.............


What???? Shit........you all been saying you have something to impeach Bush for over 6rys.....
Let's get it on.........I'm with ya.......yah whoo.....

Ya aint got shit against, either one of them.......Damn it..........keep digging................................

I want President Cheney..........whoo hoo.......

 

[Care4all]

You all should impeach.........George Bush.....

Why the hell are going after the second in line???????????????????

Impeach George bush, impeach George bush.............


What???? Shit........you all been saying you have something to impeach Bush for over 6rys.....
Let's get it on.........I'm with ya.......yah whoo.....

Ya aint got shit against, either one of them.......Damn it..........keep digging................................

I want President Cheney..........whoo hoo.......

I wouldn't wish a Cheney Presidency upon my worst enemy!

I'll take Bush any day of the week!

Impeach Cheney, then Bush!

Honestly though, there is not enough time to impeach either of them at this point in the show.

I disagree that there are not grounds to impeach them. There are several states right now, (over 10 i believe), that have started legal procedures to force Congress to start impeachment hearings, and in their documents they list several reasons why impeachment hearings should be started...and I can't argue against some of them, at least that their concerns need to be investigated.

Care

 

[red states rule]

I wouldn't wish a Cheney Presidency upon my worst enemy!

I'll take Bush any day of the week!

Impeach Cheney, then Bush!

Honestly though, there is not enough time to impeach either of them at this point in the show.

I disagree that there are not grounds to impeach them. There are several states right now, (over 10 i believe), that have started legal procedures to force Congress to start impeachment hearings, and in their documents they list several reasons why impeachment hearings should be started...and I can't argue against some of them, at least that their concerns need to be investigated.

Care

and no public support - except on the kook left

 

[Truthmatters]

You would be so very sorry if Cheney ever became president.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Sorry let me just get Dick on the phone, because

The

Congress of the United States
House of Representatives
COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHTAND GOVERNMENT REFORM

http://oversight.house.gov/documents/20070621093952.pdf

Isnt a Valid enough source for the ol' RGS.

Reconsider the source. Henry Waxman is a 17 term Democrat rep from Beverly Hills/Bel Air, L.A. and was appointed by Nanny Pelousy to the Oversight Committee to become her attack dog.

 

[Superlative]

Reconsider the source. Henry Waxman is a 17 term Democrat rep from Beverly Hills/Bel Air, L.A. and was appointed by Nanny Pelousy to the Oversight Committee to become her attack dog.

Waxman isnt allowed to file government documents?

He doesnt work for the Administrative Oversight Committee?

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Waxman isnt allowed to file government documents?

He doesnt work for the Administrative Oversight Committee?

Yes he is. Yes he does. However...

Please look up the word PARTISAN.

Here, I'll do it for you:

par·ti·san 1(pärt-zn)
n.
1. A fervent, sometimes militant supporter or proponent of a party, cause, faction, person, or idea.
2. A member of an organized body of fighters who attack or harass an enemy, especially within occupied territory; a guerrilla.


http://www.thefreedictionary.com/partisanship

 

[Bullypulpit]

I wouldn't wish a Cheney Presidency upon my worst enemy!

I'll take Bush any day of the week!

Impeach Cheney, then Bush!

Honestly though, there is not enough time to impeach either of them at this point in the show.

I disagree that there are not grounds to impeach them. There are several states right now, (over 10 i believe), that have started legal procedures to force Congress to start impeachment hearings, and in their documents they list several reasons why impeachment hearings should be started...and I can't argue against some of them, at least that their concerns need to be investigated.

Care

Actually, since Cheney claims he's not part of the executive branch, then, he's no longer in line for succession to the presidency. So, Bush COULD be impeached without having to worry about Darth Cheney ascending to the presidency. And there is enough dirt on Bush to at least introduce a Resolution of Inquiry. Pelosi won't do for fear of precipitating a Constitutional crisis. Can't be any worse than the one we already have.

 

[jillian]

You mean like the Speaker of the House going to foreign Countries and conducting Foreign Policy?

You know that her trip was done with full knowledge of the White House, right?

So, other than your rabid partisanship, what could possibly make you accept a VP claiming he is above oversight?