Who Celebrates Bastille Day?

[Polk]

Only liberals have, for example, assassinated any of our Presidents, of any political figures.

That's funny, because the only people I hear touting the beliefs of John Wilkes Booth are conservatives.

 

[PoliticalChic]

When a new member complained that some thought he was a liberal, one of our members proudly proclaimed: “Welcome from a real liberal.”

The beauty of USMB is how proudly most of the folks here speak right up for their beliefs!

1. So, kudos to our liberals friends, and have a wonderful July 14th, Bastille Day, the day that memorializes the French Revolution, and, since liberals/ progressives are heir to the French Revolution, have a great celebration!

2. Yes, just as an argument can be made that classical liberals, or what would be called conservatives today, are heir to the American Revolution, liberals can trace their provenance to Rousseau, and St. Just!

3. For Rousseau, the “Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen” proclaimed that the ‘general will’ of the people had to be correct, because it was the ‘general will,” the true interest of what everyone wants whether they realize it or not, and he ‘determined’ the ‘general will,’ so, anyone who deviated from same deserved no rights!

a. Although he had written a ‘constitution,’ it became malleable for Robespierre: “How did Robespierre actually interpret these principles? He said: “[W]e must exterminate all our enemies with the law in our hands”; “the Declaration of Rights offers no safeguard to conspirators”; “the suspicions of enlightened patriotism might offer a better guide than formal rules of evidence.” http://www.nationalaffairs.com/docl...hvsthefrenchenlightmentgertrudehimmelfarb.pdf,

Notice the echo in the actions of the early Progressives who suggested that the US Constitution may be shed, ‘like a garment.’ Their views surpassed those of the Founders. http://www.nationalaffairs.com/docl...hvsthefrenchenlightmentgertrudehimmelfarb.pdf

Could there be a better description of the collectivist totalitarian statist?

4. Of course, a minor difference that the astute might notice is that America’s documents did win freedom and individual rights, and France’s Declaration of the Rights of Man and the Citizen led to bestial savagery, followed by Napoleon’s dictatorship, followed by another monarchy, and finally something resembling an actual republic some 80 years later.

5. And just one more difference between the two revolution, mirroring the difference between liberals and conservatives? With the Jacobins in control, the “de-Christianization” campaign kicked into high gear. Inspired by Rousseau’s idea of the 'religion civile', the revolution sought to completely destroy Christianity and replace it with a religion of the state. To honor “reason” and fulfill the promise of the Declaration of the Rights of Man and the Citizen that “no one may be questioned about his opinions, including his religious views,” Catholic priests were forced to stand before the revolutionary clubs and take oaths to France’s new humanocentric religion, the Cult of Reason (which is French for ‘People for the American Way’).Revolutionaries smashed church art and statues.

a. The reason our revolution was so different from the violent, homicidal chaos of the French version was the dominant American culture was Anglo-Saxon and Christian. “52 of the 56 signers of the declaration and 50 to 52 of the 55 signers of the Constitution were orthodox Trinitarian Christians.” David Limbaugh Believers in the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, or, as they would be known today, “an extremist Fundementalist hate group.”
(From Coulter’s best seller, “Demonic .”)

So, to those of the Liberal persuasion, party like it’s 1789!

…But remember, the party will be over in November, 2012.

Talk about a weird argument.

1. If anything, the French Revolution is part of the Jeffersonian tradition, which is the heart of the modern right in America.

2. The Robespeirre quotes could have come straight from the mouths of modern right-wing politicians.

3. You act as if some great liberal impulse inspired French anti-clericalism. The difference between the American and French revolutions as it pertains to religion is that the church in France was wedded to the state against the interest of the citizenry. One theme you'll notice in the West today is that the countries with the highest rates of religiosity are generally those where the religious establishment was not an active opponent of democratization.

4. That stat about the number of "orthodox Trinitarian Christians" among the signers of the Constitution is utter rubbish.

1. It seems that I may have to annoint you as "Slow-Polk," as it has been some 200+ years and you haven't caught on to the major differences between the two revolutions...

such as the one based on some 'general will' and the collective, and the other the rights of individuals...
...sounds like liberals versus conservatives, no?

...and one based on Christianity, and the other anti-Christianity.
“The French Revolution occurred almost simultaneously with the American Revolution. While sharing many similarities, there was one glaring difference. The French were not Christian and attempted to introduce a godless humanistic government. The result is amply recorded in history books. Instead of the liberty, justice, peace, happiness, and prosperity experienced in America, France suffered chaos and injustice as thousands of heads rolled under the sharp blade of the guillotine.” Religion and Government in America: Are they complementary? — The Mandate

"That stat about the number of "orthodox Trinitarian Christians" among the signers of the Constitution is utter rubbish."
And, based on the knowledge that you have evinced so far, ....I believe it's best to ignore this one, as well.


You had best stick to what you are most familiar with, ...ties....

 

[PoliticalChic]

Only liberals have, for example, assassinated any of our Presidents, of any political figures.

That's funny, because the only people I hear touting the beliefs of John Wilkes Booth are conservatives.

What's funny is that you are unable to identify anti-war protesters as the left, liberals.....

Didn't you know that Booth claimed that Lincoln's war was one of his main motivations??
Here, let me prompt you toward a more educated view:

John Wilkes Booth was opposed to President Lincoln’s Republican war policies. His letter to is family explained he was furious with Lincoln for having brought war to the South! THE MURDERER OF MR. LINCOLN. - Extraordinary Letter of John Wilkes Booth Proof that He Meditated His Crime Months Ago His Excuses for the Contemplated Act His Participation in the Execution of John Brown. Commissioners of Public Charities and Correct

But, Slow-Polk, it seems there is a great deal that you don't know, eh?

 

[geauxtohell]

Only liberals have, for example, assassinated any of our Presidents, of any political figures.

That's funny, because the only people I hear touting the beliefs of John Wilkes Booth are conservatives.

What's funny is that you are unable to identify anti-war protesters as the left, liberals.....

Didn't you know that Booth claimed that Lincoln's war was one of his main motivations??
Here, let me prompt you toward a more educated view:

John Wilkes Booth was opposed to President Lincoln’s Republican war policies. His letter to is family explained he was furious with Lincoln for having brought war to the South! THE MURDERER OF MR. LINCOLN. - Extraordinary Letter of John Wilkes Booth Proof that He Meditated His Crime Months Ago His Excuses for the Contemplated Act His Participation in the Execution of John Brown. Commissioners of Public Charities and Correct

But, Slow-Polk, it seems there is a great deal that you don't know, eh?

Oh Lord. Are you suggesting Booth assassinated Lincoln because he was an anti-war peacenik? He opposed Lincoln's war because he opposed the North stripping the south of Slavery (or "states rights" if you believe that bullshit).

Trying to parrallel him with people who oppose war because of it's brutiality is stupid beyond belief.

 

[Moonglow]

I'm sure Conservatives would put Obama's head on a pike - or at least deport him to Saudi Arabia - if they could.

Totally false in both essence and in implication.

Neither do the conservative that I'm aware of even speak like that.

Only liberals have, for example, assassinated any of our Presidents, of any political figures.

It is the Left that is responsible for violence, and the French Revolution is a prime example.

An the Native Americans were wiped out by lefties only?The massacre in Utah by Mormons was lefties only? So short sighted.

 

[PoliticalChic]

I'm sure Conservatives would put Obama's head on a pike - or at least deport him to Saudi Arabia - if they could.

Totally false in both essence and in implication.

Neither do the conservative that I'm aware of even speak like that.

Only liberals have, for example, assassinated any of our Presidents, of any political figures.

It is the Left that is responsible for violence, and the French Revolution is a prime example.

An the Native Americans were wiped out by lefties only?The massacre in Utah by Mormons was lefties only? So short sighted.

PIck a better example.

1. The decimation of Indian populations stemmed only rarely from massacres or military actions, but the majority of Indian deaths came from infectious disease. There is the romanticized view that paints the settlers as barbaric, and the Indians as peaceful victims. Genocide means deliberate and systematic. As described by the UN Convention, Article II, it involves “ a series of brutal acts committed with intent to destroy, …a national, ethnical, racial, or religious group as such.”

2. Guenter Lewy (born 1923, Germany) is an author and historian and a professor emeritus of political science at the University of Massachusetts. In September 2004, Lewy published an essay entitled Were American Indians the Victims of Genocide ?in which he says [Ward] Churchill's assertion that the U.S. Army intentionally spread smallpox among American Indians by distributing infected blankets in 1837 is false. Lewy calls Churchill's claim of 100,000 deaths from the incident "obviously absurd".

3. During the 4 centuries following European entry into North America, Indian population fell. By the beginning of the 20th Century, officials found only 250,000 Indians in the territory of the US, as opposed to 2,476,000 identified as “American Indians or Alaska Natives” in the 2000 census. Scholars estimate pre-Columbian North American population range from 1.2 million (1928 tribe-by-tribe assessment) up to 20 million by activists.
Collectively these data suggest that population numbered about 1,894,350 at about A.D. 1500. Epidemics and other factors reduced this number to only 530,000 by 1900. Modern data suggest that by 1985 population size has increased to over 2.5 million.
North American Indian population size, A.D. 1500 to 1985 - Ubelaker - 2005 - American Journal of Physical Anthropology - Wiley Online Library

The reported population of Native Americans by the most recent Census has soared more than 1000% since 1900, over 3 times that of the US as a whole. A reasonable explanation is that intermarriage and assimilation reveal that a portion of the reported disappearance of native Americans may be that many still exist but in a different description..
Medved, "The Ten Big Lies."

 

[PoliticalChic]

That's funny, because the only people I hear touting the beliefs of John Wilkes Booth are conservatives.

What's funny is that you are unable to identify anti-war protesters as the left, liberals.....

Didn't you know that Booth claimed that Lincoln's war was one of his main motivations??
Here, let me prompt you toward a more educated view:

John Wilkes Booth was opposed to President Lincoln’s Republican war policies. His letter to is family explained he was furious with Lincoln for having brought war to the South! THE MURDERER OF MR. LINCOLN. - Extraordinary Letter of John Wilkes Booth Proof that He Meditated His Crime Months Ago His Excuses for the Contemplated Act His Participation in the Execution of John Brown. Commissioners of Public Charities and Correct

But, Slow-Polk, it seems there is a great deal that you don't know, eh?

Oh Lord. Are you suggesting Booth assassinated Lincoln because he was an anti-war peacenik? He opposed Lincoln's war because he opposed the North stripping the south of Slavery (or "states rights" if you believe that bullshit).

Trying to parrallel him with people who oppose war because of it's brutiality is stupid beyond belief.

1. I appreciate what inspired same, but it is not necessary to refer to me as your Lord.

2. "Are you suggesting...."
What I am doing, - and you should be able to identify this pattern by now,- is attempting to add to your exiguous store of knowledge.

a. "...because he was an anti-war..."
Did you read the letter?
No?
What a surprise.

3. I have come to understand that you view juggling several thoughts at the same time as akin to juggling several running chain saws, but once you have incorporated the idea that education is a life-long endeavor, you will find that there are multiple motivations that explain Booth's abhorrent action.

 

[geauxtohell]

What's funny is that you are unable to identify anti-war protesters as the left, liberals.....

Didn't you know that Booth claimed that Lincoln's war was one of his main motivations??
Here, let me prompt you toward a more educated view:

John Wilkes Booth was opposed to President Lincoln’s Republican war policies. His letter to is family explained he was furious with Lincoln for having brought war to the South! THE MURDERER OF MR. LINCOLN. - Extraordinary Letter of John Wilkes Booth Proof that He Meditated His Crime Months Ago His Excuses for the Contemplated Act His Participation in the Execution of John Brown. Commissioners of Public Charities and Correct

But, Slow-Polk, it seems there is a great deal that you don't know, eh?

Oh Lord. Are you suggesting Booth assassinated Lincoln because he was an anti-war peacenik? He opposed Lincoln's war because he opposed the North stripping the south of Slavery (or "states rights" if you believe that bullshit).

Trying to parrallel him with people who oppose war because of it's brutiality is stupid beyond belief.

1. I appreciate what inspired same, but it is not necessary to refer to me as your Lord.

2. "Are you suggesting...."
What I am doing, - and you should be able to identify this pattern by now,- is attempting to add to your exiguous store of knowledge.

a. "...because he was an anti-war..."
Did you read the letter?
No?
What a surprise.

3. I have come to understand that you view juggling several thoughts at the same time as akin to juggling several running chain saws, but once you have incorporated the idea that education is a life-long endeavor, you will find that there are multiple motivations that explain Booth's abhorrent action.

- Doesn't address content of my post.
- Redirects me to original thread and accuses me of not understanding it's banal content.
- Adds insults.
- Rinse, wash, repeat.
- On to next post.

Good to see that PC-bot is on the board today.

Just so were clear: Your analogy was stupid.

But if I didn't understand your point, feel free to actually point out where I erred as opposed to your usual lame-ness.

 

[xsited1]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GW72Gmqjse4]Bastille Day - Rush - YouTube[/ame]

 

[L.K.Eder]

What's funny is that you are unable to identify anti-war protesters as the left, liberals.....

Didn't you know that Booth claimed that Lincoln's war was one of his main motivations??
Here, let me prompt you toward a more educated view:

John Wilkes Booth was opposed to President Lincoln’s Republican war policies. His letter to is family explained he was furious with Lincoln for having brought war to the South! THE MURDERER OF MR. LINCOLN. - Extraordinary Letter of John Wilkes Booth Proof that He Meditated His Crime Months Ago His Excuses for the Contemplated Act His Participation in the Execution of John Brown. Commissioners of Public Charities and Correct

But, Slow-Polk, it seems there is a great deal that you don't know, eh?

Oh Lord. Are you suggesting Booth assassinated Lincoln because he was an anti-war peacenik? He opposed Lincoln's war because he opposed the North stripping the south of Slavery (or "states rights" if you believe that bullshit).

Trying to parrallel him with people who oppose war because of it's brutiality is stupid beyond belief.

1. I appreciate what inspired same, but it is not necessary to refer to me as your Lord.

2. "Are you suggesting...."
What I am doing, - and you should be able to identify this pattern by now,- is attempting to add to your exiguous store of knowledge.

a. "...because he was an anti-war..."
Did you read the letter?
No?
What a surprise.

3. I have come to understand that you view juggling several thoughts at the same time as akin to juggling several running chain saws, but once you have incorporated the idea that education is a life-long endeavor, you will find that there are multiple motivations that explain Booth's abhorrent action.

get a job

 

[midcan5]

One could sum up everything PC writes in four words, liberals bad, conservatives good - after that all history takes on a simplicity only the simple can believe. Such well groomed history is odd especially when you read how messy history is. But conservatives excel at coding history into neat dichotomies, only they can create so simple a view, especially since they live in a society founded on liberalism, no nation was ever founded on conservatism, for the whining and finger pointing of conservatives would render them lost, they require liberals to exist and to allow them their imaginary world. It is only in this scapegoating of the other that they feel real.

 

[PoliticalChic]

One could sum up everything PC writes in four words, liberals bad, conservatives good - after that all history takes on a simplicity only the simple can believe. Such well groomed history is odd especially when you read how messy history is. But conservatives excel at coding history into neat dichotomies, only they can create so simple a view, especially since they live in a society founded on liberalism, no nation was ever founded on conservatism, for the whining and finger pointing of conservatives would render them lost, they require liberals to exist and to allow them their imaginary world. It is only in this scapegoating of the other that they exist.

Wow, Middy....you are quick!

Yes, I firmly believe that what we call progressives, or liberals are harmful to the best intersts of a free people.

I understand that most of our liberal friends are unaware of the provenance of left-wing philosophies....
some concept of a central 'general will' that only the elites understand, doing what they know is best for the rest of the little folks, doing away with morality and religion in favor of a belief that mankind is omnipotent...and that human nature is malleable....

...and stop short of where liberal policies will take this great nation....even though the last century has documented the hundred million innocents slaughtered at the alter of some imagined utopia here on earth.

That is why I find the USMB so important....to allow each of us to propound our views,.....and I feel sure that liberty and freedom will will out.

Why, if you put down that "Sojourners," even you might catch on!

 

[PoliticalChic]

Oh Lord. Are you suggesting Booth assassinated Lincoln because he was an anti-war peacenik? He opposed Lincoln's war because he opposed the North stripping the south of Slavery (or "states rights" if you believe that bullshit).

Trying to parrallel him with people who oppose war because of it's brutiality is stupid beyond belief.

1. I appreciate what inspired same, but it is not necessary to refer to me as your Lord.

2. "Are you suggesting...."
What I am doing, - and you should be able to identify this pattern by now,- is attempting to add to your exiguous store of knowledge.

a. "...because he was an anti-war..."
Did you read the letter?
No?
What a surprise.

3. I have come to understand that you view juggling several thoughts at the same time as akin to juggling several running chain saws, but once you have incorporated the idea that education is a life-long endeavor, you will find that there are multiple motivations that explain Booth's abhorrent action.

get a job

Hmmmm.....neat idea.....maybe plucking chickens.

 

[Ravi]

So John Wilkes Booth killed Lincoln because in Booth's view African slavery was the best thing that ever happened to America AND to black people???

Holy shit, I didn't realize Glen Beck was alive back then to brainwash people.

 

[Blagger]

Ha Ha! Your Glenn Beck comment was actually quite funny, Ravi.

Anyway, as an aside. Did any of you brash colonials know that Cherie Blair - Tony Blair's wife - is a direct descendent of John Wilkes-Booth?

That's not a true 'story', that's an undisputed historical fact.

 

[geauxtohell]

Ha Ha! Your Glenn Beck comment was actually quite funny, Ravi.

Anyway, as an aside. Did any of you brash colonials know that Cherie Blair - Tony Blair's wife - is a direct descendent of John Wilkes-Booth?

That's not a true 'story', that's an undisputed historical fact.

"Colonials"

Piss off!

 

[Ringel05]

Who Celebrates Bastille Day?

Cloris Leachman..........

 

[sparky]

Who Celebrates Bastille Day?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzCjGgrewYY&feature=player_detailpage]‪Revolution Beatles‬‏ - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Cecilie1200]

Allons enfants de la patrie, le jour de gloire est arrive!

Congrats, France. (A bit early) Some excellent philosophical minds and thankfully the English colonists were wise enough to read the works they published before either revolution. The French would have been well-advised to consider those works, too. However, they seemed to be more driven toward mob rule.

Domage.




But, I have to say that guillotine is beyond harsh. Just creepy, really.

Honestly, the French Revolution would have been much less horrific if the guillotine had been the worst of their depradations.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I'm sure Conservatives would put Obama's head on a pike - or at least deport him to Saudi Arabia - if they could.

Really? And WHY are you sure of that? Because anyone on the Right has actually said things to indicate it? Or just because you assume everyone in the world is like you?