Who Are The Palestinians?

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

No, you are conveniently misreading the intent. You are misleading the other members of the discussion group by not fully quoting the salient point of the posting.

It was not until 5 NOVEMBER 2013 GA/SHC/4085 that we hear that Self-Determination Integral to Basic Human Rights, Fundamental Freedoms, Third Committee Told as It Concludes General Discussion.​

Then it is interesting that the Palestinians invoked the right to self determination in their 1948 declaration of independence.

I HAVE THE HONOR TO INFORM YOUR EXCELLENCY THAT IN VIRTUE OF THE NATURAL RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE OF PALESTINE FOR SELF-DETERMINATION WHICH PRINCIPLE IS SUPPORTED BY THE CHARTERS OF THE LEAGUE OF NATIONS, THE UNITED NATIONS AND OTHERS AND...

A C.1 330 of 14 October 1948​

It looks like you are trying to mislead.

(COMMENT)

As I have said before, the first time self-determination is mention as a formal matter is in the 1945 UN Charter. You quoted Posting 2776, but conveniently left out the lead-in. I repost a salient point form the earlier post for clarification:

• All peoples have the right of self-determination. By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development. (Derivative from the Article 1(2) and Article 55 of the 1945 Charter.)
  • To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace;
  • With a view to the creation of conditions of stability and well-being which are necessary for peaceful and friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, the United Nations shall promote:
    • a. higher standards of living, full employment, and conditions of economic and social progress and development;
    • b. solutions of international economic, social, health, and related problems; and inter- 11 ational cultural and educational cooperation; and
    • c. universal respect for, and observance of, human rights and fundamental freedoms for all without distinction as to race, sex, language, or religion.

The Resolution adopted by the General Assembly 217 A (III). Universal Declaration of Human Rights (DEC 1948), does not include the Right of Self-Determination as a "Universal Basic Human Right" with all the other codification of Basic Human Rights. As I said, that really doesn't happen until 2013.

The All-Palestine Government (Egyptian puppet APG) could only use the new Charter as a reference because the Right of Self-determination was a relatively new concept and not universally adopted and not considered a universal right with an definition.

There is a difference between an undefined Charter right and a universally accepted right. And that is why, in the Universal Declaration, the right of self-determination is not mentioned.

Most Respectfully,
R

But you repeatedly claim that the Jews exercised their right to self determination in 1948.

Correct in as much as it applied at that time ...........to whit

All peoples have the right of self-determination. By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development. (Derivative from the Article 1(2) and Article 55 of the 1945 Charter.)


The arab muslim by dint of allowing outside interference were no accorded the same right because of the outside interference.

The only Arab country that interfered with Palestinian self determination was Jordan and they were in cahoots with the Zionists. Jordan, however, did release Palestine from its occupation

TRy including Egypt, Iran, Iraq, Syria and Saudi who all banded together as the arab league and invaded Palestine with the intention of wiping out the Jews and taking all the land. They interfered with the arab muslims self determination, and made it even worse when they created the foreign ran APG.

All-Palestine Government - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

No, you are conveniently misreading the intent. You are misleading the other members of the discussion group by not fully quoting the salient point of the posting.

It was not until 5 NOVEMBER 2013 GA/SHC/4085 that we hear that Self-Determination Integral to Basic Human Rights, Fundamental Freedoms, Third Committee Told as It Concludes General Discussion.​

Then it is interesting that the Palestinians invoked the right to self determination in their 1948 declaration of independence.

I HAVE THE HONOR TO INFORM YOUR EXCELLENCY THAT IN VIRTUE OF THE NATURAL RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE OF PALESTINE FOR SELF-DETERMINATION WHICH PRINCIPLE IS SUPPORTED BY THE CHARTERS OF THE LEAGUE OF NATIONS, THE UNITED NATIONS AND OTHERS AND...

A C.1 330 of 14 October 1948​

It looks like you are trying to mislead.

(COMMENT)

As I have said before, the first time self-determination is mention as a formal matter is in the 1945 UN Charter. You quoted Posting 2776, but conveniently left out the lead-in. I repost a salient point form the earlier post for clarification:

• All peoples have the right of self-determination. By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development. (Derivative from the Article 1(2) and Article 55 of the 1945 Charter.)
  • To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace;
  • With a view to the creation of conditions of stability and well-being which are necessary for peaceful and friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, the United Nations shall promote:
    • a. higher standards of living, full employment, and conditions of economic and social progress and development;
    • b. solutions of international economic, social, health, and related problems; and inter- 11 ational cultural and educational cooperation; and
    • c. universal respect for, and observance of, human rights and fundamental freedoms for all without distinction as to race, sex, language, or religion.

The Resolution adopted by the General Assembly 217 A (III). Universal Declaration of Human Rights (DEC 1948), does not include the Right of Self-Determination as a "Universal Basic Human Right" with all the other codification of Basic Human Rights. As I said, that really doesn't happen until 2013.

The All-Palestine Government (Egyptian puppet APG) could only use the new Charter as a reference because the Right of Self-determination was a relatively new concept and not universally adopted and not considered a universal right with an definition.

There is a difference between an undefined Charter right and a universally accepted right. And that is why, in the Universal Declaration, the right of self-determination is not mentioned.

Most Respectfully,
R

But you repeatedly claim that the Jews exercised their right to self determination in 1948.

Correct in as much as it applied at that time ...........to whit

All peoples have the right of self-determination. By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development. (Derivative from the Article 1(2) and Article 55 of the 1945 Charter.)


The arab muslim by dint of allowing outside interference were no accorded the same right because of the outside interference.

The only Arab country that interfered with Palestinian self determination was Jordan and they were in cahoots with the Zionists. Jordan, however, did release Palestine from its occupation

TRy including Egypt, Iran, Iraq, Syria and Saudi who all banded together as the arab league and invaded Palestine with the intention of wiping out the Jews and taking all the land. They interfered with the arab muslims self determination, and made it even worse when they created the foreign ran APG.

All-Palestine Government - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Jordan is the only one who claimed any land and it gave it back.

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

The 1948 Declaration of Independence for the Jewish State of Israel has more than one facet.

But you repeatedly claim that the Jews exercised their right to self determination in 1948.

(COMMENT)

There are several points of concern when looking at the 1948 Jewish Bid:

• The 1919 Article 22(4) "able to stand alone" criteria in the League of Nation Covenant.
• Of course the Article 1(2) and Article 55 of the UN Charter of 1945 is but one aspect.
• The 1922 Article 4 and Article 6 Jewish National Home criteria in the Mandate for Palestine.
• The 1947 unanimous recommendations and Partition Plan by the majority of the Special Committee.
• The 1947 Steps Preparatory to Independence, A/RES/181(II).
• The 1948 coordination with the UN Palestine Commission.

The path taken by the Jewish, is considerably different than that taken by the All-Palestine Government, --- OR --- the Arab High Committee. Yes, the Jewish exercised their 'Right of Self-Determination, but there was so much more that they did in connection with their independence that the Arab Palestinians declined.

Most Respectfully,
R

The creation of Israel was purely unilateral. Neither the UN nor the Mandate had anything to do with it.

Just as the creation of Syria, Jordan, Iraq and Lebanon were also unilateral and the UN and Mandate had nothing to do with them. You cant pick and choose your details just because they support part of your POV. That is the essence of free determination to make unilateral decisions. Now why haven't the arab muslim Palestinians made that second unilateral step towards free determination

The UN had nothing to do with it. In all of those countries the Mandate accomplished its goal and they became independent states.

Britain flopped in Palestine.

Not until the mid to late 1940's when the Mandate was signed of by the Mandate power. In 1948 this was the U.N as the British could no longer afford to keep an army in Palestine. The UN issued res 181 and that is what the two declarations of independence are based on.
Now why haven't the arab muslim Palestinians taken the that second unilateral step towards free deterimination

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

No, you are conveniently misreading the intent. You are misleading the other members of the discussion group by not fully quoting the salient point of the posting.

(COMMENT)

As I have said before, the first time self-determination is mention as a formal matter is in the 1945 UN Charter. You quoted Posting 2776, but conveniently left out the lead-in. I repost a salient point form the earlier post for clarification:

• All peoples have the right of self-determination. By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development. (Derivative from the Article 1(2) and Article 55 of the 1945 Charter.)
  • To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace;
  • With a view to the creation of conditions of stability and well-being which are necessary for peaceful and friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, the United Nations shall promote:
    • a. higher standards of living, full employment, and conditions of economic and social progress and development;
    • b. solutions of international economic, social, health, and related problems; and inter- 11 ational cultural and educational cooperation; and
    • c. universal respect for, and observance of, human rights and fundamental freedoms for all without distinction as to race, sex, language, or religion.

The Resolution adopted by the General Assembly 217 A (III). Universal Declaration of Human Rights (DEC 1948), does not include the Right of Self-Determination as a "Universal Basic Human Right" with all the other codification of Basic Human Rights. As I said, that really doesn't happen until 2013.

The All-Palestine Government (Egyptian puppet APG) could only use the new Charter as a reference because the Right of Self-determination was a relatively new concept and not universally adopted and not considered a universal right with an definition.

There is a difference between an undefined Charter right and a universally accepted right. And that is why, in the Universal Declaration, the right of self-determination is not mentioned.

Most Respectfully,
R

But you repeatedly claim that the Jews exercised their right to self determination in 1948.

Correct in as much as it applied at that time ...........to whit

All peoples have the right of self-determination. By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development. (Derivative from the Article 1(2) and Article 55 of the 1945 Charter.)


The arab muslim by dint of allowing outside interference were no accorded the same right because of the outside interference.

The only Arab country that interfered with Palestinian self determination was Jordan and they were in cahoots with the Zionists. Jordan, however, did release Palestine from its occupation

TRy including Egypt, Iran, Iraq, Syria and Saudi who all banded together as the arab league and invaded Palestine with the intention of wiping out the Jews and taking all the land. They interfered with the arab muslims self determination, and made it even worse when they created the foreign ran APG.

All-Palestine Government - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Jordan is the only one who claimed any land and it gave it back.

They also threw out the arab muslim Palestinians who caused the rift. I do believe that Israel also gave back land they had occupied in 1967 to Egypt and Jordan. I also believe that both Egypt and Jordan told Israel to keep certain parts of the land as they did not want anything to do with the arab muslim terrorists infesting those lands.

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

The 1948 Declaration of Independence for the Jewish State of Israel has more than one facet.

But you repeatedly claim that the Jews exercised their right to self determination in 1948.

(COMMENT)

There are several points of concern when looking at the 1948 Jewish Bid:

• The 1919 Article 22(4) "able to stand alone" criteria in the League of Nation Covenant.
• Of course the Article 1(2) and Article 55 of the UN Charter of 1945 is but one aspect.
• The 1922 Article 4 and Article 6 Jewish National Home criteria in the Mandate for Palestine.
• The 1947 unanimous recommendations and Partition Plan by the majority of the Special Committee.
• The 1947 Steps Preparatory to Independence, A/RES/181(II).
• The 1948 coordination with the UN Palestine Commission.

The path taken by the Jewish, is considerably different than that taken by the All-Palestine Government, --- OR --- the Arab High Committee. Yes, the Jewish exercised their 'Right of Self-Determination, but there was so much more that they did in connection with their independence that the Arab Palestinians declined.

Most Respectfully,
R

The creation of Israel was purely unilateral. Neither the UN nor the Mandate had anything to do with it.

Just as the creation of Syria, Jordan, Iraq and Lebanon were also unilateral and the UN and Mandate had nothing to do with them. You cant pick and choose your details just because they support part of your POV. That is the essence of free determination to make unilateral decisions. Now why haven't the arab muslim Palestinians made that second unilateral step towards free determination

The UN had nothing to do with it. In all of those countries the Mandate accomplished its goal and they became independent states.

Britain flopped in Palestine.

Not until the mid to late 1940's when the Mandate was signed of by the Mandate power. In 1948 this was the U.N as the British could no longer afford to keep an army in Palestine. The UN issued res 181 and that is what the two declarations of independence are based on.
Now why haven't the arab muslim Palestinians taken the that second unilateral step towards free deterimination

When Britain cut and ran so did the UN. Resolution 181 was nothing but a non binding recommendation. Some people do invoke the resolution grasping for some legitimacy.

BTW, the mandate was to render administrative assistance and advice.

Why did Britain need an army for basically a consultant position? A handful of civilians should have been in and out of there in ten years.

 

[P F Tinmore]

But you repeatedly claim that the Jews exercised their right to self determination in 1948.

Correct in as much as it applied at that time ...........to whit

All peoples have the right of self-determination. By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development. (Derivative from the Article 1(2) and Article 55 of the 1945 Charter.)


The arab muslim by dint of allowing outside interference were no accorded the same right because of the outside interference.

The only Arab country that interfered with Palestinian self determination was Jordan and they were in cahoots with the Zionists. Jordan, however, did release Palestine from its occupation

TRy including Egypt, Iran, Iraq, Syria and Saudi who all banded together as the arab league and invaded Palestine with the intention of wiping out the Jews and taking all the land. They interfered with the arab muslims self determination, and made it even worse when they created the foreign ran APG.

All-Palestine Government - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Jordan is the only one who claimed any land and it gave it back.

They also threw out the arab muslim Palestinians who caused the rift. I do believe that Israel also gave back land they had occupied in 1967 to Egypt and Jordan. I also believe that both Egypt and Jordan told Israel to keep certain parts of the land as they did not want anything to do with the arab muslim terrorists infesting those lands.

The Palestinians were only thrown out of the area that was occupied by Israel.

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

The 1948 Declaration of Independence for the Jewish State of Israel has more than one facet.

(COMMENT)

There are several points of concern when looking at the 1948 Jewish Bid:

• The 1919 Article 22(4) "able to stand alone" criteria in the League of Nation Covenant.
• Of course the Article 1(2) and Article 55 of the UN Charter of 1945 is but one aspect.
• The 1922 Article 4 and Article 6 Jewish National Home criteria in the Mandate for Palestine.
• The 1947 unanimous recommendations and Partition Plan by the majority of the Special Committee.
• The 1947 Steps Preparatory to Independence, A/RES/181(II).
• The 1948 coordination with the UN Palestine Commission.

The path taken by the Jewish, is considerably different than that taken by the All-Palestine Government, --- OR --- the Arab High Committee. Yes, the Jewish exercised their 'Right of Self-Determination, but there was so much more that they did in connection with their independence that the Arab Palestinians declined.

Most Respectfully,
R

The creation of Israel was purely unilateral. Neither the UN nor the Mandate had anything to do with it.

Just as the creation of Syria, Jordan, Iraq and Lebanon were also unilateral and the UN and Mandate had nothing to do with them. You cant pick and choose your details just because they support part of your POV. That is the essence of free determination to make unilateral decisions. Now why haven't the arab muslim Palestinians made that second unilateral step towards free determination

The UN had nothing to do with it. In all of those countries the Mandate accomplished its goal and they became independent states.

Britain flopped in Palestine.

Not until the mid to late 1940's when the Mandate was signed of by the Mandate power. In 1948 this was the U.N as the British could no longer afford to keep an army in Palestine. The UN issued res 181 and that is what the two declarations of independence are based on.
Now why haven't the arab muslim Palestinians taken the that second unilateral step towards free deterimination

When Britain cut and ran so did the UN. Resolution 181 was nothing but a non binding recommendation. Some people do invoke the resolution grasping for some legitimacy.

BTW, the mandate was to render administrative assistance and advice.

Why did Britain need an army for basically a consultant position? A handful of civilians should have been in and out of there in ten years.

Yet the arasb muslim Palestinians have invoked it as part of their declaration

Because the arab muslims were resorting to violence to stop the Jews from getting the land promised to them. The civilians would have been killed within weeks, so they needed a peace keeping force there under the terms of the Mandate for Palestine

 

[P F Tinmore]

The creation of Israel was purely unilateral. Neither the UN nor the Mandate had anything to do with it.

Just as the creation of Syria, Jordan, Iraq and Lebanon were also unilateral and the UN and Mandate had nothing to do with them. You cant pick and choose your details just because they support part of your POV. That is the essence of free determination to make unilateral decisions. Now why haven't the arab muslim Palestinians made that second unilateral step towards free determination

The UN had nothing to do with it. In all of those countries the Mandate accomplished its goal and they became independent states.

Britain flopped in Palestine.

Not until the mid to late 1940's when the Mandate was signed of by the Mandate power. In 1948 this was the U.N as the British could no longer afford to keep an army in Palestine. The UN issued res 181 and that is what the two declarations of independence are based on.
Now why haven't the arab muslim Palestinians taken the that second unilateral step towards free deterimination

When Britain cut and ran so did the UN. Resolution 181 was nothing but a non binding recommendation. Some people do invoke the resolution grasping for some legitimacy.

BTW, the mandate was to render administrative assistance and advice.

Why did Britain need an army for basically a consultant position? A handful of civilians should have been in and out of there in ten years.

Yet the arasb muslim Palestinians have invoked it as part of their declaration

Because the arab muslims were resorting to violence to stop the Jews from getting the land promised to them. The civilians would have been killed within weeks, so they needed a peace keeping force there under the terms of the Mandate for Palestine

The Palestinians were not killing each other.

 

[Phoenall]

Just as the creation of Syria, Jordan, Iraq and Lebanon were also unilateral and the UN and Mandate had nothing to do with them. You cant pick and choose your details just because they support part of your POV. That is the essence of free determination to make unilateral decisions. Now why haven't the arab muslim Palestinians made that second unilateral step towards free determination

The UN had nothing to do with it. In all of those countries the Mandate accomplished its goal and they became independent states.

Britain flopped in Palestine.

Not until the mid to late 1940's when the Mandate was signed of by the Mandate power. In 1948 this was the U.N as the British could no longer afford to keep an army in Palestine. The UN issued res 181 and that is what the two declarations of independence are based on.
Now why haven't the arab muslim Palestinians taken the that second unilateral step towards free deterimination

When Britain cut and ran so did the UN. Resolution 181 was nothing but a non binding recommendation. Some people do invoke the resolution grasping for some legitimacy.

BTW, the mandate was to render administrative assistance and advice.

Why did Britain need an army for basically a consultant position? A handful of civilians should have been in and out of there in ten years.

Yet the arasb muslim Palestinians have invoked it as part of their declaration

Because the arab muslims were resorting to violence to stop the Jews from getting the land promised to them. The civilians would have been killed within weeks, so they needed a peace keeping force there under the terms of the Mandate for Palestine

The Palestinians were not killing each other.

They were attacking and killing the Jews on the orders of the Grand Mufti, this came to a head in the Hebron massacre when Jews were killed on a LIE. This caused the Jews to set up local defence groups to combat islamonazi violence and terrorism.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The UN had nothing to do with it. In all of those countries the Mandate accomplished its goal and they became independent states.

Britain flopped in Palestine.

Not until the mid to late 1940's when the Mandate was signed of by the Mandate power. In 1948 this was the U.N as the British could no longer afford to keep an army in Palestine. The UN issued res 181 and that is what the two declarations of independence are based on.
Now why haven't the arab muslim Palestinians taken the that second unilateral step towards free deterimination

When Britain cut and ran so did the UN. Resolution 181 was nothing but a non binding recommendation. Some people do invoke the resolution grasping for some legitimacy.

BTW, the mandate was to render administrative assistance and advice.

Why did Britain need an army for basically a consultant position? A handful of civilians should have been in and out of there in ten years.

Yet the arasb muslim Palestinians have invoked it as part of their declaration

Because the arab muslims were resorting to violence to stop the Jews from getting the land promised to them. The civilians would have been killed within weeks, so they needed a peace keeping force there under the terms of the Mandate for Palestine

The Palestinians were not killing each other.

They were attacking and killing the Jews on the orders of the Grand Mufti, this came to a head in the Hebron massacre when Jews were killed on a LIE. This caused the Jews to set up local defence groups to combat islamonazi violence and terrorism.

You sure suck up that Israeli propaganda, don't you?

 

[MJB12741]

Not until the mid to late 1940's when the Mandate was signed of by the Mandate power. In 1948 this was the U.N as the British could no longer afford to keep an army in Palestine. The UN issued res 181 and that is what the two declarations of independence are based on.
Now why haven't the arab muslim Palestinians taken the that second unilateral step towards free deterimination

When Britain cut and ran so did the UN. Resolution 181 was nothing but a non binding recommendation. Some people do invoke the resolution grasping for some legitimacy.

BTW, the mandate was to render administrative assistance and advice.

Why did Britain need an army for basically a consultant position? A handful of civilians should have been in and out of there in ten years.

Yet the arasb muslim Palestinians have invoked it as part of their declaration

Because the arab muslims were resorting to violence to stop the Jews from getting the land promised to them. The civilians would have been killed within weeks, so they needed a peace keeping force there under the terms of the Mandate for Palestine

The Palestinians were not killing each other.

They were attacking and killing the Jews on the orders of the Grand Mufti, this came to a head in the Hebron massacre when Jews were killed on a LIE. This caused the Jews to set up local defence groups to combat islamonazi violence and terrorism.

You sure suck up that Israeli propaganda, don't you?

But you repeatedly claim that the Jews exercised their right to self determination in 1948.

Correct in as much as it applied at that time ...........to whit

All peoples have the right of self-determination. By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development. (Derivative from the Article 1(2) and Article 55 of the 1945 Charter.)


The arab muslim by dint of allowing outside interference were no accorded the same right because of the outside interference.

The only Arab country that interfered with Palestinian self determination was Jordan and they were in cahoots with the Zionists. Jordan, however, did release Palestine from its occupation

TRy including Egypt, Iran, Iraq, Syria and Saudi who all banded together as the arab league and invaded Palestine with the intention of wiping out the Jews and taking all the land. They interfered with the arab muslims self determination, and made it even worse when they created the foreign ran APG.

All-Palestine Government - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Jordan is the only one who claimed any land and it gave it back.

They also threw out the arab muslim Palestinians who caused the rift. I do believe that Israel also gave back land they had occupied in 1967 to Egypt and Jordan. I also believe that both Egypt and Jordan told Israel to keep certain parts of the land as they did not want anything to do with the arab muslim terrorists infesting those lands.

It is so tragic & hard to forgive the Arab country's treatment of their Palestinians. But hey, lets face it, they know the Palestinians best.. Is it any wonder why after the 67 war Jordan refused Israel's offer to return the entire West Bank? How relieved Jordan was to sacrifice this piece of land to dump their Palestinians on Israel to deal with.

Oh wait, maybe that too is just "Israeli propaganda." Let's ask Tinmore.
t

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

From the time of the San Remo Convention (1920 --- when the Allied Powers decided to set the conditions for a Jewish National Home in Palestine) and forward --- the Jewish People started to work on their nation building skills.

From a time before the Ottoman Sovereignty over the land, the Arab of Palestine (as determined by the Allied Powers) made no effect at all to build an Arab State. In fact, the Arab of Palestine (as determined by the Allied Powers) rejected or declined every opportunity to participate in the development of the territory.

The creation of Israel was purely unilateral. Neither the UN nor the Mandate had anything to do with it.

The UN had nothing to do with it. In all of those countries the Mandate accomplished its goal and they became independent states.

Britain flopped in Palestine.

(OBSERVATION of ARAB COOPERATION)

Paragraph 22 --- The First Attempt to Create Self-Governing Institutions, 1922-23 --- The Political History of Palestine under British Administration A/AC.14/8 2 October 1947

Later in 1923, a third attempt was made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government. The mandatory Power now proposed “the establishment of an Arab Agency in Palestine which will occupy a position exactly analogous to that accorded to the Jewish Agency”. The Arab Agency would have the right to be consulted on all matters relating to immigration, on which it was recognised that “the views of the Arab community were entitled to special consideration”. The Arab leaders declined that this offer on the ground that it would not satisfy the aspirations of the Arab people. They added that, never having recognised the status of the Jewish Agency, they had no desire for the establishment of an Arab Agency on the same basis.

“The British Government desired to establish a self-government in Palestine, but to proceed in this direction by stages…. It had been announced that the nominated Advisory Council was to be the first stage. The second stage would have been a Legislative Council without an Arab majority. If this worked satisfactorily, the third stage, after a lapse of perhaps same years, would have been a constitution on more democratic lines.”​

In practice it proved impossible even to initiate this policy of gradual constitutional development. From 1922 until the present day, the High Commissioner has governed Palestine with the aid of Councils consisting exclusively of British officials.​

(COMMENT)

The Arab of Palestine (as determined by the Allied Powers) made no effort at all to cooperate with the Mandatory. You may see it as some sort of unilateral move on the part of the Jewish People to create the State of Israel. Others may see it as the culmination of a 40 year vigorous or determined attempt to bring the dream of a Jewish National Home into a reality.

This effort was not even attempted by the Arab of Palestine (as determined by the Allied Powers). The Arab of Palestine (as determined by the Allied Powers) not only wanted the Arab community to be entitled to special consideration, but wanted a nation handed to them on a silver platter --- without any effort on their part.

The Arab of Palestine (as determined by the Allied Powers) lives with (today) the consequences from the summation and the accumulated rejections, lack of cooperation, and their pursuit of conflict, in the same 40 year history.

The Arab of Palestine (as determined by the Allied Powers) was not denied their right of self-determination --- they rejected it and threw opportunity away. And now they have the audacity to complain about the consequences of their actions --- still unable to meet the 1919 Article 22 criteria to be able to "stand alone." They blame everyone but themselves.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Phoenall]

Not until the mid to late 1940's when the Mandate was signed of by the Mandate power. In 1948 this was the U.N as the British could no longer afford to keep an army in Palestine. The UN issued res 181 and that is what the two declarations of independence are based on.
Now why haven't the arab muslim Palestinians taken the that second unilateral step towards free deterimination

When Britain cut and ran so did the UN. Resolution 181 was nothing but a non binding recommendation. Some people do invoke the resolution grasping for some legitimacy.

BTW, the mandate was to render administrative assistance and advice.

Why did Britain need an army for basically a consultant position? A handful of civilians should have been in and out of there in ten years.

Yet the arasb muslim Palestinians have invoked it as part of their declaration

Because the arab muslims were resorting to violence to stop the Jews from getting the land promised to them. The civilians would have been killed within weeks, so they needed a peace keeping force there under the terms of the Mandate for Palestine

The Palestinians were not killing each other.

They were attacking and killing the Jews on the orders of the Grand Mufti, this came to a head in the Hebron massacre when Jews were killed on a LIE. This caused the Jews to set up local defence groups to combat islamonazi violence and terrorism.

You sure suck up that Israeli propaganda, don't you?

Where is the Jewish propaganda in the truth, it is in the history books that the arab muslims were killing the Jews on the commands of al hussieni. This led to the Jews forming defence groups to combat the killings, they must have worked as the islamonazi brainwashed morons deny the facts 80 years later even though there are people still alive who saw them

 

[Wry Catcher]

Let the truth be known to all.

Who Are The Palestinians What And Where Is Palestine

Primer on Palestine Israel and the Arab-Israeli Conflict Middle East Research and Information Project

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

From the time of the San Remo Convention (1920 --- when the Allied Powers decided to set the conditions for a Jewish National Home in Palestine) and forward --- the Jewish People started to work on their nation building skills.

From a time before the Ottoman Sovereignty over the land, the Arab of Palestine (as determined by the Allied Powers) made no effect at all to build an Arab State. In fact, the Arab of Palestine (as determined by the Allied Powers) rejected or declined every opportunity to participate in the development of the territory.

The creation of Israel was purely unilateral. Neither the UN nor the Mandate had anything to do with it.

The UN had nothing to do with it. In all of those countries the Mandate accomplished its goal and they became independent states.

Britain flopped in Palestine.

(OBSERVATION of ARAB COOPERATION)

Paragraph 22 --- The First Attempt to Create Self-Governing Institutions, 1922-23 --- The Political History of Palestine under British Administration A/AC.14/8 2 October 1947

Later in 1923, a third attempt was made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government. The mandatory Power now proposed “the establishment of an Arab Agency in Palestine which will occupy a position exactly analogous to that accorded to the Jewish Agency”. The Arab Agency would have the right to be consulted on all matters relating to immigration, on which it was recognised that “the views of the Arab community were entitled to special consideration”. The Arab leaders declined that this offer on the ground that it would not satisfy the aspirations of the Arab people. They added that, never having recognised the status of the Jewish Agency, they had no desire for the establishment of an Arab Agency on the same basis.

“The British Government desired to establish a self-government in Palestine, but to proceed in this direction by stages…. It had been announced that the nominated Advisory Council was to be the first stage. The second stage would have been a Legislative Council without an Arab majority. If this worked satisfactorily, the third stage, after a lapse of perhaps same years, would have been a constitution on more democratic lines.”​

In practice it proved impossible even to initiate this policy of gradual constitutional development. From 1922 until the present day, the High Commissioner has governed Palestine with the aid of Councils consisting exclusively of British officials.​

(COMMENT)

The Arab of Palestine (as determined by the Allied Powers) made no effort at all to cooperate with the Mandatory. You may see it as some sort of unilateral move on the part of the Jewish People to create the State of Israel. Others may see it as the culmination of a 40 year vigorous or determined attempt to bring the dream of a Jewish National Home into a reality.

This effort was not even attempted by the Arab of Palestine (as determined by the Allied Powers). The Arab of Palestine (as determined by the Allied Powers) not only wanted the Arab community to be entitled to special consideration, but wanted a nation handed to them on a silver platter --- without any effort on their part.

The Arab of Palestine (as determined by the Allied Powers) lives with (today) the consequences from the summation and the accumulated rejections, lack of cooperation, and their pursuit of conflict, in the same 40 year history.

The Arab of Palestine (as determined by the Allied Powers) was not denied their right of self-determination --- they rejected it and threw opportunity away. And now they have the audacity to complain about the consequences of their actions --- still unable to meet the 1919 Article 22 criteria to be able to "stand alone." They blame everyone but themselves.

Most Respectfully,
R

Indeed, the Palestinians would not cooperate with any of the colonial project.

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

From the time of the San Remo Convention (1920 --- when the Allied Powers decided to set the conditions for a Jewish National Home in Palestine) and forward --- the Jewish People started to work on their nation building skills.

From a time before the Ottoman Sovereignty over the land, the Arab of Palestine (as determined by the Allied Powers) made no effect at all to build an Arab State. In fact, the Arab of Palestine (as determined by the Allied Powers) rejected or declined every opportunity to participate in the development of the territory.

The creation of Israel was purely unilateral. Neither the UN nor the Mandate had anything to do with it.

The UN had nothing to do with it. In all of those countries the Mandate accomplished its goal and they became independent states.

Britain flopped in Palestine.

(OBSERVATION of ARAB COOPERATION)

Paragraph 22 --- The First Attempt to Create Self-Governing Institutions, 1922-23 --- The Political History of Palestine under British Administration A/AC.14/8 2 October 1947

Later in 1923, a third attempt was made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government. The mandatory Power now proposed “the establishment of an Arab Agency in Palestine which will occupy a position exactly analogous to that accorded to the Jewish Agency”. The Arab Agency would have the right to be consulted on all matters relating to immigration, on which it was recognised that “the views of the Arab community were entitled to special consideration”. The Arab leaders declined that this offer on the ground that it would not satisfy the aspirations of the Arab people. They added that, never having recognised the status of the Jewish Agency, they had no desire for the establishment of an Arab Agency on the same basis.

“The British Government desired to establish a self-government in Palestine, but to proceed in this direction by stages…. It had been announced that the nominated Advisory Council was to be the first stage. The second stage would have been a Legislative Council without an Arab majority. If this worked satisfactorily, the third stage, after a lapse of perhaps same years, would have been a constitution on more democratic lines.”​

In practice it proved impossible even to initiate this policy of gradual constitutional development. From 1922 until the present day, the High Commissioner has governed Palestine with the aid of Councils consisting exclusively of British officials.​

(COMMENT)

The Arab of Palestine (as determined by the Allied Powers) made no effort at all to cooperate with the Mandatory. You may see it as some sort of unilateral move on the part of the Jewish People to create the State of Israel. Others may see it as the culmination of a 40 year vigorous or determined attempt to bring the dream of a Jewish National Home into a reality.

This effort was not even attempted by the Arab of Palestine (as determined by the Allied Powers). The Arab of Palestine (as determined by the Allied Powers) not only wanted the Arab community to be entitled to special consideration, but wanted a nation handed to them on a silver platter --- without any effort on their part.

The Arab of Palestine (as determined by the Allied Powers) lives with (today) the consequences from the summation and the accumulated rejections, lack of cooperation, and their pursuit of conflict, in the same 40 year history.

The Arab of Palestine (as determined by the Allied Powers) was not denied their right of self-determination --- they rejected it and threw opportunity away. And now they have the audacity to complain about the consequences of their actions --- still unable to meet the 1919 Article 22 criteria to be able to "stand alone." They blame everyone but themselves.

Most Respectfully,
R

Indeed, the Palestinians would not cooperate with any of the colonial project.

And now regret it as they lost out on 66 years of peace and prosperity.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Again, the Arab Palestinians generally interpret most issues about the migration of Jews to the territory in which the Mandate applied.

Indeed, the Palestinians would not cooperate with any of the colonial project.

(OBSERVATION)

The "Black Letter:" Prime Minister Ramsay MacDonald --- to --- Dr. Weizmann on the 13th February, 1931

The Mandatory Government and the Jewish Agency had a conference in November 1930, to discuss the revival of Arab antagonism and the emergence of the Palestinian Black Hand of Syrian-born Sheikh Izz ad-Din al-Qassam --- and the Arab jihadist attacks on Jewish settlers. In part, The Prime Minister said, “will fall to be read as the authoritative interpretation of the White Paper” (pertaining to matter it discussed). Among the issues were:

• • 
    “The obligation to facilitate Jewish immigration and to encourage close settlement by Jews on the land remains a positive obligation of the Mandate, and it can be fulfilled without prejudice to the rights and position of other sections of the population of Palestine.”

• • 
    “The statement of policy of His Majesty’s Government did not imply a prohibition of acquisition of additional land by Jews.”

• • 
    “His Majesty’s Government did not prescribe and do not contemplate any stoppage or prohibition of Jewish immigration in any of its categories.”

(COMMENT)

This statement of policy and the interpretation (of the previous 1930 White Paper) seemed to be more acceptable to the Jewish Agency than it did to the various disorganized Arab observers; many of whom considered the letter to be a modification to the policy expressed in the White Paper. The Arabs declined to participate with the High Commissioner in the decision making processes; and retarding the to development self-governing institutions. Gradually --- over time, the Arab became a little more organized and began to collectively voice informally their interpretation of the Jewish Immigration in negative terms; describing it as colonialism, foreign invasion, and a threat to Arab civil rights.

The Arab Palestinians, five years later, pulled together five Arab political parties and presented the High commissioner memorandum demanding immediate cessation of Jewish immigration.

As usual, the Arab Palestinians failed to understand one of the principle objectives was the immigration of Jews for the establishment of a Jewish National Home.

The Arab Palestinian, unable to get their demands met, ramped-up the propaganda effort to suggest that they are the virtual victims of an international conspiracy to steal the land formerly under the sovereign control of the Ottoman Empire. And today, this allegation that they are subject to a policy of colonialism is merely an extension of the 1930s argument using contemporary terminology.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Again, the Arab Palestinians generally interpret most issues about the migration of Jews to the territory in which the Mandate applied.

Indeed, the Palestinians would not cooperate with any of the colonial project.

(OBSERVATION)

The "Black Letter:" Prime Minister Ramsay MacDonald --- to --- Dr. Weizmann on the 13th February, 1931

The Mandatory Government and the Jewish Agency had a conference in November 1930, to discuss the revival of Arab antagonism and the emergence of the Palestinian Black Hand of Syrian-born Sheikh Izz ad-Din al-Qassam --- and the Arab jihadist attacks on Jewish settlers. In part, The Prime Minister said, “will fall to be read as the authoritative interpretation of the White Paper” (pertaining to matter it discussed). Among the issues were:

• • 
    “The obligation to facilitate Jewish immigration and to encourage close settlement by Jews on the land remains a positive obligation of the Mandate, and it can be fulfilled without prejudice to the rights and position of other sections of the population of Palestine.”

• • 
    “The statement of policy of His Majesty’s Government did not imply a prohibition of acquisition of additional land by Jews.”

• • 
    “His Majesty’s Government did not prescribe and do not contemplate any stoppage or prohibition of Jewish immigration in any of its categories.”

(COMMENT)

This statement of policy and the interpretation (of the previous 1930 White Paper) seemed to be more acceptable to the Jewish Agency than it did to the various disorganized Arab observers; many of whom considered the letter to be a modification to the policy expressed in the White Paper. The Arabs declined to participate with the High Commissioner in the decision making processes; and retarding the to development self-governing institutions. Gradually --- over time, the Arab became a little more organized and began to collectively voice informally their interpretation of the Jewish Immigration in negative terms; describing it as colonialism, foreign invasion, and a threat to Arab civil rights.

The Arab Palestinians, five years later, pulled together five Arab political parties and presented the High commissioner memorandum demanding immediate cessation of Jewish immigration.

As usual, the Arab Palestinians failed to understand one of the principle objectives was the immigration of Jews for the establishment of a Jewish National Home.

The Arab Palestinian, unable to get their demands met, ramped-up the propaganda effort to suggest that they are the virtual victims of an international conspiracy to steal the land formerly under the sovereign control of the Ottoman Empire. And today, this allegation that they are subject to a policy of colonialism is merely an extension of the 1930s argument using contemporary terminology.

Most Respectfully,
R

Your language is very discriminatory.

You make it sound wrong for the Palestinians to defend their country.

 

[toastman]

Not until the mid to late 1940's when the Mandate was signed of by the Mandate power. In 1948 this was the U.N as the British could no longer afford to keep an army in Palestine. The UN issued res 181 and that is what the two declarations of independence are based on.
Now why haven't the arab muslim Palestinians taken the that second unilateral step towards free deterimination

When Britain cut and ran so did the UN. Resolution 181 was nothing but a non binding recommendation. Some people do invoke the resolution grasping for some legitimacy.

BTW, the mandate was to render administrative assistance and advice.

Why did Britain need an army for basically a consultant position? A handful of civilians should have been in and out of there in ten years.

Yet the arasb muslim Palestinians have invoked it as part of their declaration

Because the arab muslims were resorting to violence to stop the Jews from getting the land promised to them. The civilians would have been killed within weeks, so they needed a peace keeping force there under the terms of the Mandate for Palestine

The Palestinians were not killing each other.

They were attacking and killing the Jews on the orders of the Grand Mufti, this came to a head in the Hebron massacre when Jews were killed on a LIE. This caused the Jews to set up local defence groups to combat islamonazi violence and terrorism.

You sure suck up that Israeli propaganda, don't you?

P F Tinmore, et al,

Again, the Arab Palestinians generally interpret most issues about the migration of Jews to the territory in which the Mandate applied.

Indeed, the Palestinians would not cooperate with any of the colonial project.

(OBSERVATION)

The "Black Letter:" Prime Minister Ramsay MacDonald --- to --- Dr. Weizmann on the 13th February, 1931

The Mandatory Government and the Jewish Agency had a conference in November 1930, to discuss the revival of Arab antagonism and the emergence of the Palestinian Black Hand of Syrian-born Sheikh Izz ad-Din al-Qassam --- and the Arab jihadist attacks on Jewish settlers. In part, The Prime Minister said, “will fall to be read as the authoritative interpretation of the White Paper” (pertaining to matter it discussed). Among the issues were:

• • 
    “The obligation to facilitate Jewish immigration and to encourage close settlement by Jews on the land remains a positive obligation of the Mandate, and it can be fulfilled without prejudice to the rights and position of other sections of the population of Palestine.”

• • 
    “The statement of policy of His Majesty’s Government did not imply a prohibition of acquisition of additional land by Jews.”

• • 
    “His Majesty’s Government did not prescribe and do not contemplate any stoppage or prohibition of Jewish immigration in any of its categories.”

(COMMENT)

This statement of policy and the interpretation (of the previous 1930 White Paper) seemed to be more acceptable to the Jewish Agency than it did to the various disorganized Arab observers; many of whom considered the letter to be a modification to the policy expressed in the White Paper. The Arabs declined to participate with the High Commissioner in the decision making processes; and retarding the to development self-governing institutions. Gradually --- over time, the Arab became a little more organized and began to collectively voice informally their interpretation of the Jewish Immigration in negative terms; describing it as colonialism, foreign invasion, and a threat to Arab civil rights.

The Arab Palestinians, five years later, pulled together five Arab political parties and presented the High commissioner memorandum demanding immediate cessation of Jewish immigration.

As usual, the Arab Palestinians failed to understand one of the principle objectives was the immigration of Jews for the establishment of a Jewish National Home.

The Arab Palestinian, unable to get their demands met, ramped-up the propaganda effort to suggest that they are the virtual victims of an international conspiracy to steal the land formerly under the sovereign control of the Ottoman Empire. And today, this allegation that they are subject to a policy of colonialism is merely an extension of the 1930s argument using contemporary terminology.

Most Respectfully,
R

Your language is very discriminatory.

You make it sound wrong for the Palestinians to defend their country.

You've said this many times, and I have asked you this question many times without getting a response:
What have the Palestinians done or are doing to defend their 'country'

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

If I used some inappropriate language, I sincerely apologize.

Your language is very discriminatory.

(COMMENT)

I looked through it twice, and failed to find any use of derogatory comments, or direct attacks upon characteristics pertaining to skin color, medical conditions, intelligence, gender, age, etc. I thought it was all pretty straight forward.

You make it sound wrong for the Palestinians to defend their country.

(COMMENT)

Their Country? Prior to 1988, the Arab Palestinians did not have a country.

The State of Palestine (1988) was created while the territory was already under Israeli effective control.

The 1988 territory was never under attack. The Arab Palestinian have territory under assault to defend; there is no aggressor.

The Arab Palestinian is under occupation, security containment and quarantine due to its continuous line of direct threats to the sovereignty of Israel.

Considering that the progressive development and codification of the following principles:

1. The principle that States shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations,
   
   
2. The principle that States shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered,
   
   
3. The duty not to intervene in matters within the domestic jurisdiction of any State, in accordance with the Charter,
   
   
4. The duty of States to co-operate with one another in accordance with the Charter,
   
   
5. The principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples,
   
   
6. The principle of sovereign equality of States,
   
   
7. The principle that States shall fulfill in good faith the obligations assumed by them in accordance with the Charter,

Most Respectfully,
R