Who Are The Palestinians?

[ChrisL]

 

[ChrisL]

Not until the mid to late 1940's when the Mandate was signed of by the Mandate power. In 1948 this was the U.N as the British could no longer afford to keep an army in Palestine. The UN issued res 181 and that is what the two declarations of independence are based on.
Now why haven't the arab muslim Palestinians taken the that second unilateral step towards free deterimination

When Britain cut and ran so did the UN. Resolution 181 was nothing but a non binding recommendation. Some people do invoke the resolution grasping for some legitimacy.

BTW, the mandate was to render administrative assistance and advice.

Why did Britain need an army for basically a consultant position? A handful of civilians should have been in and out of there in ten years.

Yet the arasb muslim Palestinians have invoked it as part of their declaration

Because the arab muslims were resorting to violence to stop the Jews from getting the land promised to them. The civilians would have been killed within weeks, so they needed a peace keeping force there under the terms of the Mandate for Palestine

The Palestinians were not killing each other.

They were attacking and killing the Jews on the orders of the Grand Mufti, this came to a head in the Hebron massacre when Jews were killed on a LIE. This caused the Jews to set up local defence groups to combat islamonazi violence and terrorism.

You sure suck up that Israeli propaganda, don't you?

 

[ChrisL]

 

[ChrisL]

And one more for good measure.

 

[aris2chat]

AP, BBC and other have debunked the numbers of civilians.
Hamas might not care about rebuilding homes in G but they finished rebuilding their military bases in G already.

 

[P F Tinmore]

When Britain cut and ran so did the UN. Resolution 181 was nothing but a non binding recommendation. Some people do invoke the resolution grasping for some legitimacy.

BTW, the mandate was to render administrative assistance and advice.

Why did Britain need an army for basically a consultant position? A handful of civilians should have been in and out of there in ten years.

Yet the arasb muslim Palestinians have invoked it as part of their declaration

Because the arab muslims were resorting to violence to stop the Jews from getting the land promised to them. The civilians would have been killed within weeks, so they needed a peace keeping force there under the terms of the Mandate for Palestine

The Palestinians were not killing each other.

They were attacking and killing the Jews on the orders of the Grand Mufti, this came to a head in the Hebron massacre when Jews were killed on a LIE. This caused the Jews to set up local defence groups to combat islamonazi violence and terrorism.

You sure suck up that Israeli propaganda, don't you?

P F Tinmore, et al,

Again, the Arab Palestinians generally interpret most issues about the migration of Jews to the territory in which the Mandate applied.

Indeed, the Palestinians would not cooperate with any of the colonial project.

(OBSERVATION)

The "Black Letter:" Prime Minister Ramsay MacDonald --- to --- Dr. Weizmann on the 13th February, 1931

The Mandatory Government and the Jewish Agency had a conference in November 1930, to discuss the revival of Arab antagonism and the emergence of the Palestinian Black Hand of Syrian-born Sheikh Izz ad-Din al-Qassam --- and the Arab jihadist attacks on Jewish settlers. In part, The Prime Minister said, “will fall to be read as the authoritative interpretation of the White Paper” (pertaining to matter it discussed). Among the issues were:

• • 
    “The obligation to facilitate Jewish immigration and to encourage close settlement by Jews on the land remains a positive obligation of the Mandate, and it can be fulfilled without prejudice to the rights and position of other sections of the population of Palestine.”

• • 
    “The statement of policy of His Majesty’s Government did not imply a prohibition of acquisition of additional land by Jews.”

• • 
    “His Majesty’s Government did not prescribe and do not contemplate any stoppage or prohibition of Jewish immigration in any of its categories.”

(COMMENT)

This statement of policy and the interpretation (of the previous 1930 White Paper) seemed to be more acceptable to the Jewish Agency than it did to the various disorganized Arab observers; many of whom considered the letter to be a modification to the policy expressed in the White Paper. The Arabs declined to participate with the High Commissioner in the decision making processes; and retarding the to development self-governing institutions. Gradually --- over time, the Arab became a little more organized and began to collectively voice informally their interpretation of the Jewish Immigration in negative terms; describing it as colonialism, foreign invasion, and a threat to Arab civil rights.

The Arab Palestinians, five years later, pulled together five Arab political parties and presented the High commissioner memorandum demanding immediate cessation of Jewish immigration.

As usual, the Arab Palestinians failed to understand one of the principle objectives was the immigration of Jews for the establishment of a Jewish National Home.

The Arab Palestinian, unable to get their demands met, ramped-up the propaganda effort to suggest that they are the virtual victims of an international conspiracy to steal the land formerly under the sovereign control of the Ottoman Empire. And today, this allegation that they are subject to a policy of colonialism is merely an extension of the 1930s argument using contemporary terminology.

Most Respectfully,
R

Your language is very discriminatory.

You make it sound wrong for the Palestinians to defend their country.

You've said this many times, and I have asked you this question many times without getting a response:
What have the Palestinians done or are doing to defend their 'country'

Everything Israel bitches about.

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

If I used some inappropriate language, I sincerely apologize.

Your language is very discriminatory.

(COMMENT)

I looked through it twice, and failed to find any use of derogatory comments, or direct attacks upon characteristics pertaining to skin color, medical conditions, intelligence, gender, age, etc. I thought it was all pretty straight forward.

You make it sound wrong for the Palestinians to defend their country.

(COMMENT)

Their Country? Prior to 1988, the Arab Palestinians did not have a country.

The State of Palestine (1988) was created while the territory was already under Israeli effective control.

The 1988 territory was never under attack. The Arab Palestinian have territory under assault to defend; there is no aggressor.

The Arab Palestinian is under occupation, security containment and quarantine due to its continuous line of direct threats to the sovereignty of Israel.

Considering that the progressive development and codification of the following principles:

1. The principle that States shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any State, or in any other manner inconsistent with the purposes of the United Nations,
   
   
2. The principle that States shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security and justice are not endangered,
   
   
3. The duty not to intervene in matters within the domestic jurisdiction of any State, in accordance with the Charter,
   
   
4. The duty of States to co-operate with one another in accordance with the Charter,
   
   
5. The principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples,
   
   
6. The principle of sovereign equality of States,
   
   
7. The principle that States shall fulfill in good faith the obligations assumed by them in accordance with the Charter,

Most Respectfully,
R

You always give the Israeli version.

Considering
that the progressive development and codification of the following principles: bla, bla, bla​

How does this apply to Palestine?

 

[toastman]

Yet the arasb muslim Palestinians have invoked it as part of their declaration

Because the arab muslims were resorting to violence to stop the Jews from getting the land promised to them. The civilians would have been killed within weeks, so they needed a peace keeping force there under the terms of the Mandate for Palestine

The Palestinians were not killing each other.

They were attacking and killing the Jews on the orders of the Grand Mufti, this came to a head in the Hebron massacre when Jews were killed on a LIE. This caused the Jews to set up local defence groups to combat islamonazi violence and terrorism.

You sure suck up that Israeli propaganda, don't you?

P F Tinmore, et al,

Again, the Arab Palestinians generally interpret most issues about the migration of Jews to the territory in which the Mandate applied.

Indeed, the Palestinians would not cooperate with any of the colonial project.

(OBSERVATION)

The "Black Letter:" Prime Minister Ramsay MacDonald --- to --- Dr. Weizmann on the 13th February, 1931

The Mandatory Government and the Jewish Agency had a conference in November 1930, to discuss the revival of Arab antagonism and the emergence of the Palestinian Black Hand of Syrian-born Sheikh Izz ad-Din al-Qassam --- and the Arab jihadist attacks on Jewish settlers. In part, The Prime Minister said, “will fall to be read as the authoritative interpretation of the White Paper” (pertaining to matter it discussed). Among the issues were:

• • 
    “The obligation to facilitate Jewish immigration and to encourage close settlement by Jews on the land remains a positive obligation of the Mandate, and it can be fulfilled without prejudice to the rights and position of other sections of the population of Palestine.”

• • 
    “The statement of policy of His Majesty’s Government did not imply a prohibition of acquisition of additional land by Jews.”

• • 
    “His Majesty’s Government did not prescribe and do not contemplate any stoppage or prohibition of Jewish immigration in any of its categories.”

(COMMENT)

This statement of policy and the interpretation (of the previous 1930 White Paper) seemed to be more acceptable to the Jewish Agency than it did to the various disorganized Arab observers; many of whom considered the letter to be a modification to the policy expressed in the White Paper. The Arabs declined to participate with the High Commissioner in the decision making processes; and retarding the to development self-governing institutions. Gradually --- over time, the Arab became a little more organized and began to collectively voice informally their interpretation of the Jewish Immigration in negative terms; describing it as colonialism, foreign invasion, and a threat to Arab civil rights.

The Arab Palestinians, five years later, pulled together five Arab political parties and presented the High commissioner memorandum demanding immediate cessation of Jewish immigration.

As usual, the Arab Palestinians failed to understand one of the principle objectives was the immigration of Jews for the establishment of a Jewish National Home.

The Arab Palestinian, unable to get their demands met, ramped-up the propaganda effort to suggest that they are the virtual victims of an international conspiracy to steal the land formerly under the sovereign control of the Ottoman Empire. And today, this allegation that they are subject to a policy of colonialism is merely an extension of the 1930s argument using contemporary terminology.

Most Respectfully,
R

Your language is very discriminatory.

You make it sound wrong for the Palestinians to defend their country.

You've said this many times, and I have asked you this question many times without getting a response:
What have the Palestinians done or are doing to defend their 'country'

Everything Israel bitches about.

Common Tinmore. Give me some examples of how 'Palestine' defended themselves against Israel?

 

[toastman]

AP, BBC and other have debunked the numbers of civilians.
Hamas might not care about rebuilding homes in G but they finished rebuilding their military bases in G already.

Why is it that with all the money Gaza gets, that there are still so many slums there?

 

[P F Tinmore]

AP, BBC and other have debunked the numbers of civilians.
Hamas might not care about rebuilding homes in G but they finished rebuilding their military bases in G already.

Why is it that with all the money Gaza gets, that there are still so many slums there?

And Israel pumps money into its military while poverty rises.

 

[toastman]

Not until the mid to late 1940's when the Mandate was signed of by the Mandate power. In 1948 this was the U.N as the British could no longer afford to keep an army in Palestine. The UN issued res 181 and that is what the two declarations of independence are based on.
Now why haven't the arab muslim Palestinians taken the that second unilateral step towards free deterimination

When Britain cut and ran so did the UN. Resolution 181 was nothing but a non binding recommendation. Some people do invoke the resolution grasping for some legitimacy.

BTW, the mandate was to render administrative assistance and advice.

Why did Britain need an army for basically a consultant position? A handful of civilians should have been in and out of there in ten years.

Yet the arasb muslim Palestinians have invoked it as part of their declaration

Because the arab muslims were resorting to violence to stop the Jews from getting the land promised to them. The civilians would have been killed within weeks, so they needed a peace keeping force there under the terms of the Mandate for Palestine

The Palestinians were not killing each other.

They were attacking and killing the Jews on the orders of the Grand Mufti, this came to a head in the Hebron massacre when Jews were killed on a LIE. This caused the Jews to set up local defence groups to combat islamonazi violence and terrorism.

You sure suck up that Israeli propaganda, don't you?

Actually, Phoenal is correct:

In addition to guarding Jewish communities, the role of the Haganah was to warn the residents of and repel attacks by Palestinian Arabs

Haganah - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[toastman]

AP, BBC and other have debunked the numbers of civilians.
Hamas might not care about rebuilding homes in G but they finished rebuilding their military bases in G already.

Why is it that with all the money Gaza gets, that there are still so many slums there?

And Israel pumps money into its military while poverty rises.

I wonder why Israel pumps money into her military ..........

 

[P F Tinmore]

When Britain cut and ran so did the UN. Resolution 181 was nothing but a non binding recommendation. Some people do invoke the resolution grasping for some legitimacy.

BTW, the mandate was to render administrative assistance and advice.

Why did Britain need an army for basically a consultant position? A handful of civilians should have been in and out of there in ten years.

Yet the arasb muslim Palestinians have invoked it as part of their declaration

Because the arab muslims were resorting to violence to stop the Jews from getting the land promised to them. The civilians would have been killed within weeks, so they needed a peace keeping force there under the terms of the Mandate for Palestine

The Palestinians were not killing each other.

They were attacking and killing the Jews on the orders of the Grand Mufti, this came to a head in the Hebron massacre when Jews were killed on a LIE. This caused the Jews to set up local defence groups to combat islamonazi violence and terrorism.

You sure suck up that Israeli propaganda, don't you?

Actually, Phoenal is correct:

In addition to guarding Jewish communities, the role of the Haganah was to warn the residents of and repel attacks by Palestinian Arabs

Haganah - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Indeed, that is part of the story.

 

[toastman]

Yet the arasb muslim Palestinians have invoked it as part of their declaration

Because the arab muslims were resorting to violence to stop the Jews from getting the land promised to them. The civilians would have been killed within weeks, so they needed a peace keeping force there under the terms of the Mandate for Palestine

The Palestinians were not killing each other.

They were attacking and killing the Jews on the orders of the Grand Mufti, this came to a head in the Hebron massacre when Jews were killed on a LIE. This caused the Jews to set up local defence groups to combat islamonazi violence and terrorism.

You sure suck up that Israeli propaganda, don't you?

Actually, Phoenal is correct:

In addition to guarding Jewish communities, the role of the Haganah was to warn the residents of and repel attacks by Palestinian Arabs

Haganah - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Indeed, that is part of the story.

The 'Tinmore Version' of the story does not apply to real life though.

 

[MJB12741]

P F Tinmore, et al,

From the time of the San Remo Convention (1920 --- when the Allied Powers decided to set the conditions for a Jewish National Home in Palestine) and forward --- the Jewish People started to work on their nation building skills.

From a time before the Ottoman Sovereignty over the land, the Arab of Palestine (as determined by the Allied Powers) made no effect at all to build an Arab State. In fact, the Arab of Palestine (as determined by the Allied Powers) rejected or declined every opportunity to participate in the development of the territory.

The creation of Israel was purely unilateral. Neither the UN nor the Mandate had anything to do with it.

The UN had nothing to do with it. In all of those countries the Mandate accomplished its goal and they became independent states.

Britain flopped in Palestine.

(OBSERVATION of ARAB COOPERATION)

Paragraph 22 --- The First Attempt to Create Self-Governing Institutions, 1922-23 --- The Political History of Palestine under British Administration A/AC.14/8 2 October 1947

Later in 1923, a third attempt was made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government. The mandatory Power now proposed “the establishment of an Arab Agency in Palestine which will occupy a position exactly analogous to that accorded to the Jewish Agency”. The Arab Agency would have the right to be consulted on all matters relating to immigration, on which it was recognised that “the views of the Arab community were entitled to special consideration”. The Arab leaders declined that this offer on the ground that it would not satisfy the aspirations of the Arab people. They added that, never having recognised the status of the Jewish Agency, they had no desire for the establishment of an Arab Agency on the same basis.

“The British Government desired to establish a self-government in Palestine, but to proceed in this direction by stages…. It had been announced that the nominated Advisory Council was to be the first stage. The second stage would have been a Legislative Council without an Arab majority. If this worked satisfactorily, the third stage, after a lapse of perhaps same years, would have been a constitution on more democratic lines.”​

In practice it proved impossible even to initiate this policy of gradual constitutional development. From 1922 until the present day, the High Commissioner has governed Palestine with the aid of Councils consisting exclusively of British officials.​

(COMMENT)

The Arab of Palestine (as determined by the Allied Powers) made no effort at all to cooperate with the Mandatory. You may see it as some sort of unilateral move on the part of the Jewish People to create the State of Israel. Others may see it as the culmination of a 40 year vigorous or determined attempt to bring the dream of a Jewish National Home into a reality.

This effort was not even attempted by the Arab of Palestine (as determined by the Allied Powers). The Arab of Palestine (as determined by the Allied Powers) not only wanted the Arab community to be entitled to special consideration, but wanted a nation handed to them on a silver platter --- without any effort on their part.

The Arab of Palestine (as determined by the Allied Powers) lives with (today) the consequences from the summation and the accumulated rejections, lack of cooperation, and their pursuit of conflict, in the same 40 year history.

The Arab of Palestine (as determined by the Allied Powers) was not denied their right of self-determination --- they rejected it and threw opportunity away. And now they have the audacity to complain about the consequences of their actions --- still unable to meet the 1919 Article 22 criteria to be able to "stand alone." They blame everyone but themselves.

Most Respectfully,
R

Indeed, the Palestinians would not cooperate with any of the colonial project.

And praise be to Allah the Palestinians prefer poverty.

 

[ChrisL]

AP, BBC and other have debunked the numbers of civilians.
Hamas might not care about rebuilding homes in G but they finished rebuilding their military bases in G already.

Why is it that with all the money Gaza gets, that there are still so many slums there?

Because they spend all their money on crappy rockets and guns and don't care one bit about the people living there. They are so consumed with hatred, they cannot focus on anything but Israel. It's like a disease.

 

[ChrisL]

P F Tinmore, et al,

From the time of the San Remo Convention (1920 --- when the Allied Powers decided to set the conditions for a Jewish National Home in Palestine) and forward --- the Jewish People started to work on their nation building skills.

From a time before the Ottoman Sovereignty over the land, the Arab of Palestine (as determined by the Allied Powers) made no effect at all to build an Arab State. In fact, the Arab of Palestine (as determined by the Allied Powers) rejected or declined every opportunity to participate in the development of the territory.

The creation of Israel was purely unilateral. Neither the UN nor the Mandate had anything to do with it.

The UN had nothing to do with it. In all of those countries the Mandate accomplished its goal and they became independent states.

Britain flopped in Palestine.

(OBSERVATION of ARAB COOPERATION)

Paragraph 22 --- The First Attempt to Create Self-Governing Institutions, 1922-23 --- The Political History of Palestine under British Administration A/AC.14/8 2 October 1947

Later in 1923, a third attempt was made to establish an institution through which the Arab population of Palestine could be brought into cooperation with the government. The mandatory Power now proposed “the establishment of an Arab Agency in Palestine which will occupy a position exactly analogous to that accorded to the Jewish Agency”. The Arab Agency would have the right to be consulted on all matters relating to immigration, on which it was recognised that “the views of the Arab community were entitled to special consideration”. The Arab leaders declined that this offer on the ground that it would not satisfy the aspirations of the Arab people. They added that, never having recognised the status of the Jewish Agency, they had no desire for the establishment of an Arab Agency on the same basis.

“The British Government desired to establish a self-government in Palestine, but to proceed in this direction by stages…. It had been announced that the nominated Advisory Council was to be the first stage. The second stage would have been a Legislative Council without an Arab majority. If this worked satisfactorily, the third stage, after a lapse of perhaps same years, would have been a constitution on more democratic lines.”​

In practice it proved impossible even to initiate this policy of gradual constitutional development. From 1922 until the present day, the High Commissioner has governed Palestine with the aid of Councils consisting exclusively of British officials.​

(COMMENT)

The Arab of Palestine (as determined by the Allied Powers) made no effort at all to cooperate with the Mandatory. You may see it as some sort of unilateral move on the part of the Jewish People to create the State of Israel. Others may see it as the culmination of a 40 year vigorous or determined attempt to bring the dream of a Jewish National Home into a reality.

This effort was not even attempted by the Arab of Palestine (as determined by the Allied Powers). The Arab of Palestine (as determined by the Allied Powers) not only wanted the Arab community to be entitled to special consideration, but wanted a nation handed to them on a silver platter --- without any effort on their part.

The Arab of Palestine (as determined by the Allied Powers) lives with (today) the consequences from the summation and the accumulated rejections, lack of cooperation, and their pursuit of conflict, in the same 40 year history.

The Arab of Palestine (as determined by the Allied Powers) was not denied their right of self-determination --- they rejected it and threw opportunity away. And now they have the audacity to complain about the consequences of their actions --- still unable to meet the 1919 Article 22 criteria to be able to "stand alone." They blame everyone but themselves.

Most Respectfully,
R

Indeed, the Palestinians would not cooperate with any of the colonial project.

Seems to me that they would be better off.

 

[P F Tinmore]

AP, BBC and other have debunked the numbers of civilians.
Hamas might not care about rebuilding homes in G but they finished rebuilding their military bases in G already.

Why is it that with all the money Gaza gets, that there are still so many slums there?

And Israel pumps money into its military while poverty rises.

I wonder why Israel pumps money into her military ..........

Because the Palestinians force them to do so.

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Again, the Arab Palestinians generally interpret most issues about the migration of Jews to the territory in which the Mandate applied.

Indeed, the Palestinians would not cooperate with any of the colonial project.

(OBSERVATION)

The "Black Letter:" Prime Minister Ramsay MacDonald --- to --- Dr. Weizmann on the 13th February, 1931

The Mandatory Government and the Jewish Agency had a conference in November 1930, to discuss the revival of Arab antagonism and the emergence of the Palestinian Black Hand of Syrian-born Sheikh Izz ad-Din al-Qassam --- and the Arab jihadist attacks on Jewish settlers. In part, The Prime Minister said, “will fall to be read as the authoritative interpretation of the White Paper” (pertaining to matter it discussed). Among the issues were:

• • 
    “The obligation to facilitate Jewish immigration and to encourage close settlement by Jews on the land remains a positive obligation of the Mandate, and it can be fulfilled without prejudice to the rights and position of other sections of the population of Palestine.”

• • 
    “The statement of policy of His Majesty’s Government did not imply a prohibition of acquisition of additional land by Jews.”

• • 
    “His Majesty’s Government did not prescribe and do not contemplate any stoppage or prohibition of Jewish immigration in any of its categories.”

(COMMENT)

This statement of policy and the interpretation (of the previous 1930 White Paper) seemed to be more acceptable to the Jewish Agency than it did to the various disorganized Arab observers; many of whom considered the letter to be a modification to the policy expressed in the White Paper. The Arabs declined to participate with the High Commissioner in the decision making processes; and retarding the to development self-governing institutions. Gradually --- over time, the Arab became a little more organized and began to collectively voice informally their interpretation of the Jewish Immigration in negative terms; describing it as colonialism, foreign invasion, and a threat to Arab civil rights.

The Arab Palestinians, five years later, pulled together five Arab political parties and presented the High commissioner memorandum demanding immediate cessation of Jewish immigration.

As usual, the Arab Palestinians failed to understand one of the principle objectives was the immigration of Jews for the establishment of a Jewish National Home.

The Arab Palestinian, unable to get their demands met, ramped-up the propaganda effort to suggest that they are the virtual victims of an international conspiracy to steal the land formerly under the sovereign control of the Ottoman Empire. And today, this allegation that they are subject to a policy of colonialism is merely an extension of the 1930s argument using contemporary terminology.

Most Respectfully,
R

Your language is very discriminatory.

You make it sound wrong for the Palestinians to defend their country.

Which country is that, what are its capital city and currency, who is its leader and what is it GDP

 

[Phoenall]

AP, BBC and other have debunked the numbers of civilians.
Hamas might not care about rebuilding homes in G but they finished rebuilding their military bases in G already.

Why is it that with all the money Gaza gets, that there are still so many slums there?

And Israel pumps money into its military while poverty rises.

I wonder why Israel pumps money into her military ..........

Because the Palestinians force them to do so.

Then they are in breach of the UN charters they have recently signed and should be removed from the UN completely and their declaration of independence torn up and used as toilet paper in the Islamic toilets.