Who Are The Palestinians?

[Phoenall]

There was never a case in which the Arab Palestinian attempted to use their right of self-determination, in an internationally accepted way, and was denied.

What about their 1948 declaration of independence?

It was illegal as you cant declare on land already declared, and it was made after the cut off date so was not entertained.

 

[Challenger]

Zionist history, perhaps.

It's ok challenger, I don't expect you to accept the truth. I've seen your posts many times where you are simply unable to handle the truth. It's a known fact that pro Palestinians are allergic to it, so don't worry, you're not alone

There are many "truths", all with their own preconceptions and biases, interpretations, feelings and fantasies. Accepting one "truth" blinds you to the possibilities in all the others and is intellectually lazy. I strive to obtain "The Truth" from amongst the web of lies and deceptions that are out there pretending to be "The Truth".

If you are comfortable with your version of the "truth", that's fine, but your mind is closed as a consequence. As the saying goes, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." I and millions of others have found that Zionist Historiography and Hasbara has lied, again and again and again, so pardon my continuing skepticism about the stream of Hasbara I'm bombarded with from the Pro-Israelis here. So I'm glad I'm not alone, but thanks for your concern.

Well, you must be blind. Israel has had nuclear weapons for years. If they wanted to, they could wipe the Palestinians off the map. They have the power to do so, but they have not. They have tolerated a LOT from their "neighbors" over many, many, many years. Obviously you are quite ignorant.

Well you must be really stupid. Nuclear War 101: Bang! the bombs goe off...lots of wanton death and destruction, vapourisation, etc.etc. Nice mushroom clouds of radioactive debris and dust tens of thousands of feet into the air, OK? still with me?

What goes up, must come down, it's called "fallout" and radioactive fallout at that. On its way down it is carried over long distances, many miles.

So....Israel nukes the West Bank and Gaza, job done....except for all that nasty radioactive fallout which is as likely to be carried East and North as it is to be carried South and West, thus leaving huge swathes of Israel uninhabitable and lots of Israelis "glowing in the dark" or growing two heads.

Power is one thing, but even the most rabid Zionist isn't that stupid. No wait, I hear you cry....get a weather forcast and nuke them when the winds are blowing away from Israel.....OK good idea but for those pesky facts that have a tendency to get in the way of the best Zionist wet dreams,

"Israel is located at the exact point where these four weather systems converge. This is why the country is subject to contradictory weather patterns (rainy or dry) as well as highly unpredictable shifts in the direction of prevailing winds. These unusual climatic conditions make it very difficult to predict weather conditions." What are Israel s prevailing winds

....bummer.

Ah, that wasn't the point at all. The point is, Israel could wipe out Palestine with or without nuclear weapons. If they are as "evil" as you seem to think they are, they could capture, kill or enslave all of the Palestinians, but they have not.

OK. Zionist Israel depends on America for it's continued existance (although it is looking to suck up to China in case America decides to throw it under a bus). Like it or not, most Americans are decent people who won't stomach an attempted genocide by their "closest ally". Consequently, the Zionists are forced to play the long game, the slow ethocide, deprive them of decent

Zionist history, perhaps.

It's ok challenger, I don't expect you to accept the truth. I've seen your posts many times where you are simply unable to handle the truth. It's a known fact that pro Palestinians are allergic to it, so don't worry, you're not alone

There are many "truths", all with their own preconceptions and biases, interpretations, feelings and fantasies. Accepting one "truth" blinds you to the possibilities in all the others and is intellectually lazy. I strive to obtain "The Truth" from amongst the web of lies and deceptions that are out there pretending to be "The Truth".

If you are comfortable with your version of the "truth", that's fine, but your mind is closed as a consequence. As the saying goes, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." I and millions of others have found that Zionist Historiography and Hasbara has lied, again and again and again, so pardon my continuing skepticism about the stream of Hasbara I'm bombarded with from the Pro-Israelis here. So I'm glad I'm not alone, but thanks for your concern.

And by your use of the terms Zionist and hasbara you prove beyond reasonable doubt that your mind is closed to the truth. All you want to see is your warped version of reality and the arab muslims "truths" being peddled. You don't want to see Islamic sources saying that arab muslims were very thin on the ground in Palestine prior to the Ottoman's inviting Jews to migrate and settle. You don't want to see the original acceptance by arab muslims to the Jews taking Palestine as their homeland as back then it was worthless desert. You don't want to see the evidence of mass illegal immigration by arab muslims. You don't want to see the atrocities committed by arab muslims in Palestine against all non muslims. because to admit that these are truth and reality would mean your brainwashing was wrong.

Israelis and Jewish people use the terms Zionist and Hasbara all the time; the word "Hasbara" is an Israeli word for goodness sake! I use the words for the purpose of clarity; being precise in defining what I'm talking about. I prefer to use the phrase "Jewish person" over the word "Jew" as I consider the word both derogatory and racist. I'm more than happy to look at any source but I'm allowed to be skeptical about any source's veracity and objectivity, as well as it's accuracy.

What source of yours says, "...that arab muslims were very thin on the ground in Palestine prior to the Ottoman's inviting Jews to migrate and settle"? I'll look at it.

What source of yours talks about, "acceptance by arab muslims to the Jews taking Palestine as their homeland as back then it was worthless desert."? I'll look at it as well.

What source of yours provides, "evidence of mass illegal immigration by arab muslims" ? I'll look at it.

What source of yours catalogues, "the atrocities committed by arab muslims in Palestine against all non muslims."? I'll look at that too, without fear and with an open mind.

No you use the terms in the same way the Germans spewed out **** and juden, or the way the arab muslims used Palestinian when referring to the Jews.
You have still to give your personal definition of Zionist because you know it will show you as a RACIST POS


Try the ottomans reports of Palestine prior to 1870 when they failed to get arab muslims to colonise the land and turn it into valuable arable farms. 3 times they tried and each time the arab muslims up sticks and left, the same arab muslims that later came back and tried to claim they had lived in Palestine for 3,000 years.

The Mcmahon letters

The reports by Winston Churchill when he was foreign secretary

The 1929 massacre of Jews in Hebron, the ethnic cleansing of Christians from gaza and the west bank since 2005 and the civil wars or 1930 and 1945

You have either links or references to these sources? There are thousands of Ottoman documents prior to 1870 for example; I have neither the time nor the inclination to go through what's available in print or the net.

They are your claims; it's up to you to back them up.

 

[Kondor3]

...Why, thank you for those kind words. sir.

Da nada...

 

[Phoenall]

It's ok challenger, I don't expect you to accept the truth. I've seen your posts many times where you are simply unable to handle the truth. It's a known fact that pro Palestinians are allergic to it, so don't worry, you're not alone

There are many "truths", all with their own preconceptions and biases, interpretations, feelings and fantasies. Accepting one "truth" blinds you to the possibilities in all the others and is intellectually lazy. I strive to obtain "The Truth" from amongst the web of lies and deceptions that are out there pretending to be "The Truth".

If you are comfortable with your version of the "truth", that's fine, but your mind is closed as a consequence. As the saying goes, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." I and millions of others have found that Zionist Historiography and Hasbara has lied, again and again and again, so pardon my continuing skepticism about the stream of Hasbara I'm bombarded with from the Pro-Israelis here. So I'm glad I'm not alone, but thanks for your concern.

Well, you must be blind. Israel has had nuclear weapons for years. If they wanted to, they could wipe the Palestinians off the map. They have the power to do so, but they have not. They have tolerated a LOT from their "neighbors" over many, many, many years. Obviously you are quite ignorant.

Well you must be really stupid. Nuclear War 101: Bang! the bombs goe off...lots of wanton death and destruction, vapourisation, etc.etc. Nice mushroom clouds of radioactive debris and dust tens of thousands of feet into the air, OK? still with me?

What goes up, must come down, it's called "fallout" and radioactive fallout at that. On its way down it is carried over long distances, many miles.

So....Israel nukes the West Bank and Gaza, job done....except for all that nasty radioactive fallout which is as likely to be carried East and North as it is to be carried South and West, thus leaving huge swathes of Israel uninhabitable and lots of Israelis "glowing in the dark" or growing two heads.

Power is one thing, but even the most rabid Zionist isn't that stupid. No wait, I hear you cry....get a weather forcast and nuke them when the winds are blowing away from Israel.....OK good idea but for those pesky facts that have a tendency to get in the way of the best Zionist wet dreams,

"Israel is located at the exact point where these four weather systems converge. This is why the country is subject to contradictory weather patterns (rainy or dry) as well as highly unpredictable shifts in the direction of prevailing winds. These unusual climatic conditions make it very difficult to predict weather conditions." What are Israel s prevailing winds

....bummer.

Ah, that wasn't the point at all. The point is, Israel could wipe out Palestine with or without nuclear weapons. If they are as "evil" as you seem to think they are, they could capture, kill or enslave all of the Palestinians, but they have not.

OK. Zionist Israel depends on America for it's continued existance (although it is looking to suck up to China in case America decides to throw it under a bus). Like it or not, most Americans are decent people who won't stomach an attempted genocide by their "closest ally". Consequently, the Zionists are forced to play the long game, the slow ethocide, deprive them of decent

It's ok challenger, I don't expect you to accept the truth. I've seen your posts many times where you are simply unable to handle the truth. It's a known fact that pro Palestinians are allergic to it, so don't worry, you're not alone

There are many "truths", all with their own preconceptions and biases, interpretations, feelings and fantasies. Accepting one "truth" blinds you to the possibilities in all the others and is intellectually lazy. I strive to obtain "The Truth" from amongst the web of lies and deceptions that are out there pretending to be "The Truth".

If you are comfortable with your version of the "truth", that's fine, but your mind is closed as a consequence. As the saying goes, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." I and millions of others have found that Zionist Historiography and Hasbara has lied, again and again and again, so pardon my continuing skepticism about the stream of Hasbara I'm bombarded with from the Pro-Israelis here. So I'm glad I'm not alone, but thanks for your concern.

And by your use of the terms Zionist and hasbara you prove beyond reasonable doubt that your mind is closed to the truth. All you want to see is your warped version of reality and the arab muslims "truths" being peddled. You don't want to see Islamic sources saying that arab muslims were very thin on the ground in Palestine prior to the Ottoman's inviting Jews to migrate and settle. You don't want to see the original acceptance by arab muslims to the Jews taking Palestine as their homeland as back then it was worthless desert. You don't want to see the evidence of mass illegal immigration by arab muslims. You don't want to see the atrocities committed by arab muslims in Palestine against all non muslims. because to admit that these are truth and reality would mean your brainwashing was wrong.

Israelis and Jewish people use the terms Zionist and Hasbara all the time; the word "Hasbara" is an Israeli word for goodness sake! I use the words for the purpose of clarity; being precise in defining what I'm talking about. I prefer to use the phrase "Jewish person" over the word "Jew" as I consider the word both derogatory and racist. I'm more than happy to look at any source but I'm allowed to be skeptical about any source's veracity and objectivity, as well as it's accuracy.

What source of yours says, "...that arab muslims were very thin on the ground in Palestine prior to the Ottoman's inviting Jews to migrate and settle"? I'll look at it.

What source of yours talks about, "acceptance by arab muslims to the Jews taking Palestine as their homeland as back then it was worthless desert."? I'll look at it as well.

What source of yours provides, "evidence of mass illegal immigration by arab muslims" ? I'll look at it.

What source of yours catalogues, "the atrocities committed by arab muslims in Palestine against all non muslims."? I'll look at that too, without fear and with an open mind.

No you use the terms in the same way the Germans spewed out **** and juden, or the way the arab muslims used Palestinian when referring to the Jews.
You have still to give your personal definition of Zionist because you know it will show you as a RACIST POS


Try the ottomans reports of Palestine prior to 1870 when they failed to get arab muslims to colonise the land and turn it into valuable arable farms. 3 times they tried and each time the arab muslims up sticks and left, the same arab muslims that later came back and tried to claim they had lived in Palestine for 3,000 years.

The Mcmahon letters

The reports by Winston Churchill when he was foreign secretary

The 1929 massacre of Jews in Hebron, the ethnic cleansing of Christians from gaza and the west bank since 2005 and the civil wars or 1930 and 1945

You have either links or references to these sources? There are thousands of Ottoman documents prior to 1870 for example; I have neither the time nor the inclination to go through what's available in print or the net.

They are your claims; it's up to you to back them up.

So you are not prepared to do as you said because you know that the reports will say different to what you have been told.

 

[ChrisL]

There was never a case in which the Arab Palestinian attempted to use their right of self-determination, in an internationally accepted way, and was denied.

What about their 1948 declaration of independence?

Are you German Tinmore?

 

[ChrisL]

It's ok challenger, I don't expect you to accept the truth. I've seen your posts many times where you are simply unable to handle the truth. It's a known fact that pro Palestinians are allergic to it, so don't worry, you're not alone

There are many "truths", all with their own preconceptions and biases, interpretations, feelings and fantasies. Accepting one "truth" blinds you to the possibilities in all the others and is intellectually lazy. I strive to obtain "The Truth" from amongst the web of lies and deceptions that are out there pretending to be "The Truth".

If you are comfortable with your version of the "truth", that's fine, but your mind is closed as a consequence. As the saying goes, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." I and millions of others have found that Zionist Historiography and Hasbara has lied, again and again and again, so pardon my continuing skepticism about the stream of Hasbara I'm bombarded with from the Pro-Israelis here. So I'm glad I'm not alone, but thanks for your concern.

Well, you must be blind. Israel has had nuclear weapons for years. If they wanted to, they could wipe the Palestinians off the map. They have the power to do so, but they have not. They have tolerated a LOT from their "neighbors" over many, many, many years. Obviously you are quite ignorant.

Well you must be really stupid. Nuclear War 101: Bang! the bombs goe off...lots of wanton death and destruction, vapourisation, etc.etc. Nice mushroom clouds of radioactive debris and dust tens of thousands of feet into the air, OK? still with me?

What goes up, must come down, it's called "fallout" and radioactive fallout at that. On its way down it is carried over long distances, many miles.

So....Israel nukes the West Bank and Gaza, job done....except for all that nasty radioactive fallout which is as likely to be carried East and North as it is to be carried South and West, thus leaving huge swathes of Israel uninhabitable and lots of Israelis "glowing in the dark" or growing two heads.

Power is one thing, but even the most rabid Zionist isn't that stupid. No wait, I hear you cry....get a weather forcast and nuke them when the winds are blowing away from Israel.....OK good idea but for those pesky facts that have a tendency to get in the way of the best Zionist wet dreams,

"Israel is located at the exact point where these four weather systems converge. This is why the country is subject to contradictory weather patterns (rainy or dry) as well as highly unpredictable shifts in the direction of prevailing winds. These unusual climatic conditions make it very difficult to predict weather conditions." What are Israel s prevailing winds

....bummer.

Ah, that wasn't the point at all. The point is, Israel could wipe out Palestine with or without nuclear weapons. If they are as "evil" as you seem to think they are, they could capture, kill or enslave all of the Palestinians, but they have not.

OK. Zionist Israel depends on America for it's continued existance (although it is looking to suck up to China in case America decides to throw it under a bus). Like it or not, most Americans are decent people who won't stomach an attempted genocide by their "closest ally". Consequently, the Zionists are forced to play the long game, the slow ethocide, deprive them of decent

It's ok challenger, I don't expect you to accept the truth. I've seen your posts many times where you are simply unable to handle the truth. It's a known fact that pro Palestinians are allergic to it, so don't worry, you're not alone

There are many "truths", all with their own preconceptions and biases, interpretations, feelings and fantasies. Accepting one "truth" blinds you to the possibilities in all the others and is intellectually lazy. I strive to obtain "The Truth" from amongst the web of lies and deceptions that are out there pretending to be "The Truth".

If you are comfortable with your version of the "truth", that's fine, but your mind is closed as a consequence. As the saying goes, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." I and millions of others have found that Zionist Historiography and Hasbara has lied, again and again and again, so pardon my continuing skepticism about the stream of Hasbara I'm bombarded with from the Pro-Israelis here. So I'm glad I'm not alone, but thanks for your concern.

And by your use of the terms Zionist and hasbara you prove beyond reasonable doubt that your mind is closed to the truth. All you want to see is your warped version of reality and the arab muslims "truths" being peddled. You don't want to see Islamic sources saying that arab muslims were very thin on the ground in Palestine prior to the Ottoman's inviting Jews to migrate and settle. You don't want to see the original acceptance by arab muslims to the Jews taking Palestine as their homeland as back then it was worthless desert. You don't want to see the evidence of mass illegal immigration by arab muslims. You don't want to see the atrocities committed by arab muslims in Palestine against all non muslims. because to admit that these are truth and reality would mean your brainwashing was wrong.

Israelis and Jewish people use the terms Zionist and Hasbara all the time; the word "Hasbara" is an Israeli word for goodness sake! I use the words for the purpose of clarity; being precise in defining what I'm talking about. I prefer to use the phrase "Jewish person" over the word "Jew" as I consider the word both derogatory and racist. I'm more than happy to look at any source but I'm allowed to be skeptical about any source's veracity and objectivity, as well as it's accuracy.

What source of yours says, "...that arab muslims were very thin on the ground in Palestine prior to the Ottoman's inviting Jews to migrate and settle"? I'll look at it.

What source of yours talks about, "acceptance by arab muslims to the Jews taking Palestine as their homeland as back then it was worthless desert."? I'll look at it as well.

What source of yours provides, "evidence of mass illegal immigration by arab muslims" ? I'll look at it.

What source of yours catalogues, "the atrocities committed by arab muslims in Palestine against all non muslims."? I'll look at that too, without fear and with an open mind.

No you use the terms in the same way the Germans spewed out **** and juden, or the way the arab muslims used Palestinian when referring to the Jews.
You have still to give your personal definition of Zionist because you know it will show you as a RACIST POS


Try the ottomans reports of Palestine prior to 1870 when they failed to get arab muslims to colonise the land and turn it into valuable arable farms. 3 times they tried and each time the arab muslims up sticks and left, the same arab muslims that later came back and tried to claim they had lived in Palestine for 3,000 years.

The Mcmahon letters

The reports by Winston Churchill when he was foreign secretary

The 1929 massacre of Jews in Hebron, the ethnic cleansing of Christians from gaza and the west bank since 2005 and the civil wars or 1930 and 1945

You have either links or references to these sources? There are thousands of Ottoman documents prior to 1870 for example; I have neither the time nor the inclination to go through what's available in print or the net.

They are your claims; it's up to you to back them up.

You are not correct. Israel has gone against the wishes of America and the world plenty of times. Lol. Keep your blinders on.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, that was not a case of a proper application.

There was never a case in which the Arab Palestinian attempted to use their right of self-determination, in an internationally accepted way, and was denied.

What about their 1948 declaration of independence?

(COMMENT)

First, the "All Palestine Government" (APG) was a puppet regime that was totally dependent of Egypt and the Military Governorship; thus "external influence and interference."

Second, the APG announce their declaration four months after the Jewish Palestinian Citizens announced the State of Israel. The APG announcement try to encompass the same sovereign territory as the Jewish Palestinian Citizens already declared under the GA/RES/181(II).

Third, the right of self-determination of the Arab Palestinian Citizens cannot overturn the right of self-determination of the Jew Palestinian Citizens.

It is not a case of the Arab Palestinian Citizens being denied their right of self-determination --- as it is --- being prevented or blocked from interfering with the Jewish Palestinian Citizens's right of self-determination.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[toastman]

montelatici, et al,

Remembering --- that the UK Colonial Office (UKCO) to the Palestine Arab Delegation (PAD) is not an official; statement of policy. Again, remember as stated in Correspondence #2, Paragraph #2, Mr Churchill and the UKCO was "not in a position to negotiate officially with [the PAD] or with any other body which claims to represent the whole or, part of the people of Palestine, since no official machinery for representation has as yet been constituted." The Arab Palestinian Leadership having rejected (more then once) the opportunity to establish an official conduit.

Also remember that the very same people that wrote the Covenant for the League of Nations, also wrote the Mandate. There is nothing at all in Article 22 of the Covenant, that would suggest that Article 22 was in anyway dedicated exclusively to the opportunities of Arab Palestinians --- or --- predicated upon the claim that the granting an advantage to the Arab Palestinians. The same authors of the 1919 Covenant, were also the principles at the 1920 San Remo Convention in which the framework for the Mandate of Palestine was agreed upon; and where the concept was hammered-out in regards to the establishment of the Jewish National Home (JNH).

As clearly stated, any obligation antecedent to the entry of a state as a member of the League of Nations that conflicted with the covenant of the LoN, was to abrogated by the entrant (UK) prior to joining the LoN.

(b) The object aimed at by Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations is "the well-being and development of the people" of the land. Alien Jews not in Palestine do not come within the scope of this aim, neither is their association with Palestine more close than that of Christians and Moslems all over the world. Consequently the Jewish National Home policy is contrary to the spirit of the Covenant.

(c) Article XX of the Covenant reads: "The Members of this League severally agree that this Covenant is accepted as abrogating all obligations or understandings inter se which are inconsistent with the terms thereof, and solemnly undertake that they will not hereafter enter into any engagements inconsistent with the terms thereof.

"In case any Member of the League shall, before becoming a Member of the League, have undertaken any obligations inconsistent with the terms of this Covenant, it shall be the duty of such Member to take immediate steps to procure its release from such obligations."

- See more at: UK correspondence with Palestine Arab Delegation and Zionist Organization British policy in Palestine Churchill White Paper - UK documentation Cmd. 1700 Non-UN document excerpts 1 July 1922

(COMMENT)

The Covenant grants no special or unique application to the indigenous population of the territory under mandate. In fact, Article 22, could be thought of as applying in general to any of the orphaned territories left in the wake of the post-War conditions.

Relative to Article 22/1 of the Covenant:

To those colonies and territories which as a consequence of the late war have ceased to be under the sovereignty of the States which formerly governed them and which are inhabited by peoples not yet able to stand by themselves under the strenuous conditions of the modern world, there should be applied the principle that the well-being and development of such peoples form a sacred trust of civilisation and that securities for the performance of this trust should be embodied in this Covenant.

In fact, of the Middle East Protectorates and Mandates, the following Arab countries were determined to stand-alone, with their independence and sovereignty.

• Lebanon: Independence: 22 November 1943 (from League of Nations mandate under French administration)
• Syria: Independence: 17 April 1946 (from League of Nations mandate under French administration)
• Jordan: Independence: 25 May 1946 (from League of Nations mandate under British administration)
• Iraq: Independence: 3 October 1932 (from League of Nations mandate under British administration)
• Israel: Independence: 14 May 1948 (from League of Nations mandate under British administration)
• Kuwait: Independence: 19 June 1961 (from UK)
• Egypt: Independence: 28 February 1922 (from UK)

Relative to Article 22/4 of the Covenant:

Certain communities formerly belonging to the Turkish Empire have reached a stage of development where their existence as independent nations can be provisionally recognized subject to the rendering of administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone. The wishes of these communities must be a principal consideration in the selection of the Mandatory.

Nothing in this clause specifically applies to the Palestinian territory under Mandate. It has a general application but on pinpoint specific application. While in general one could say that the League of Nations gave Britain the Mandate to administer Palestine, which required her to implement the Balfour Declaration, and undertake a “sacred trust of civilisation” to advance the welfare of the all people and guide them to independence. And here again, --- while the Jewish citizens under the Mandate of Palestine chose to follow the "Step Preparatory to Independence" as approved by the General Assembly; the Arab Palestinians turned this opportunity down at least three times.​

Relative to Article 22/8 of the Covenant:

The degree of authority, control, or administration to be exercised by the Mandatory shall, if not previously agreed upon by the Members of the League, be explicitly defined in each case by the Council.

One of the major objectives of the Mandate, as passed-down from the San Remo Convention, by the Principal Allied Powers to the Mandatory --- was the responsibility for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, in favor of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people.
​

I have heard, many times, that the Palestinians were not given the proper well-being care and development they had due to them. That they were denied the right to self-determination, and that they were not dealt with fairly. The is a form of negativism in which the under developed culture does not have the ability to stand on its own --- and who tends to be negative. Of course, most cultures have periods or moments of whining, complaining, and displaying “the glass-is-half-empty” attitude now and again, but the continuation --- day after day, year after year, decade after decade --- of dwelling on the worst outcome of any given situation --- droning on and on about the unfairness of the world, then there is something more wrong with the culture than meets the eye.

Most Respectfully,
R

It wouldn't matter if it were the British Virgin Islands. If the British had a deal/treaty/agreement with the Gurkhas to populate the BVIs with thousands Gurkhas and their extended families in order to create a Gurkha National home there, at the expense of the locals, they should, by the terms of the LoN Covenant, have extricated themselves out of that agreement.

There hasn't been any such campaign, validated by an International Organization, against any people that was planned and executed to replace an indigenous people living a continent away from Europe, with a "favored" European people. I don't think that anyone looking at it as a neutral could ever imagine that such a process, with all the opaque and sinister tactics combined with betrayal, used against the Christians and Muslims would be acceptable to any fair and neutral observer.

And like a good little islamonazi stooge you deny the indigenous Jews of Palestine their rights to free determination and a homeland. So how about we make all muslims stateless and destined to wander the world for the next 2,000 years as unwanted pariahs ?

Not true.

Even the PLO Charter specifically recognizes indigenous Jews as legitimate citizens of Palestine.

YOU are one of the most dishonest posters here and one of the most disgusting. Jews are not respected as "citizens." They are considered dhimmis. Anyone who is not Muslim, is a second class citizen.

Tinmore doesn't have any problem with Jews.
But you're right, he is one of, if not the most dishonest poster here.
Funny how he asked you for a link, when we always provide him with links to refute his lies yet he still keeps his position.

 

[ChrisL]

montelatici, et al,

Remembering --- that the UK Colonial Office (UKCO) to the Palestine Arab Delegation (PAD) is not an official; statement of policy. Again, remember as stated in Correspondence #2, Paragraph #2, Mr Churchill and the UKCO was "not in a position to negotiate officially with [the PAD] or with any other body which claims to represent the whole or, part of the people of Palestine, since no official machinery for representation has as yet been constituted." The Arab Palestinian Leadership having rejected (more then once) the opportunity to establish an official conduit.

Also remember that the very same people that wrote the Covenant for the League of Nations, also wrote the Mandate. There is nothing at all in Article 22 of the Covenant, that would suggest that Article 22 was in anyway dedicated exclusively to the opportunities of Arab Palestinians --- or --- predicated upon the claim that the granting an advantage to the Arab Palestinians. The same authors of the 1919 Covenant, were also the principles at the 1920 San Remo Convention in which the framework for the Mandate of Palestine was agreed upon; and where the concept was hammered-out in regards to the establishment of the Jewish National Home (JNH).

(COMMENT)

The Covenant grants no special or unique application to the indigenous population of the territory under mandate. In fact, Article 22, could be thought of as applying in general to any of the orphaned territories left in the wake of the post-War conditions.

Relative to Article 22/1 of the Covenant:

To those colonies and territories which as a consequence of the late war have ceased to be under the sovereignty of the States which formerly governed them and which are inhabited by peoples not yet able to stand by themselves under the strenuous conditions of the modern world, there should be applied the principle that the well-being and development of such peoples form a sacred trust of civilisation and that securities for the performance of this trust should be embodied in this Covenant.

In fact, of the Middle East Protectorates and Mandates, the following Arab countries were determined to stand-alone, with their independence and sovereignty.

• Lebanon: Independence: 22 November 1943 (from League of Nations mandate under French administration)
• Syria: Independence: 17 April 1946 (from League of Nations mandate under French administration)
• Jordan: Independence: 25 May 1946 (from League of Nations mandate under British administration)
• Iraq: Independence: 3 October 1932 (from League of Nations mandate under British administration)
• Israel: Independence: 14 May 1948 (from League of Nations mandate under British administration)
• Kuwait: Independence: 19 June 1961 (from UK)
• Egypt: Independence: 28 February 1922 (from UK)

Relative to Article 22/4 of the Covenant:

Certain communities formerly belonging to the Turkish Empire have reached a stage of development where their existence as independent nations can be provisionally recognized subject to the rendering of administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone. The wishes of these communities must be a principal consideration in the selection of the Mandatory.

Nothing in this clause specifically applies to the Palestinian territory under Mandate. It has a general application but on pinpoint specific application. While in general one could say that the League of Nations gave Britain the Mandate to administer Palestine, which required her to implement the Balfour Declaration, and undertake a “sacred trust of civilisation” to advance the welfare of the all people and guide them to independence. And here again, --- while the Jewish citizens under the Mandate of Palestine chose to follow the "Step Preparatory to Independence" as approved by the General Assembly; the Arab Palestinians turned this opportunity down at least three times.​

Relative to Article 22/8 of the Covenant:

The degree of authority, control, or administration to be exercised by the Mandatory shall, if not previously agreed upon by the Members of the League, be explicitly defined in each case by the Council.

One of the major objectives of the Mandate, as passed-down from the San Remo Convention, by the Principal Allied Powers to the Mandatory --- was the responsibility for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, in favor of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people.
​

I have heard, many times, that the Palestinians were not given the proper well-being care and development they had due to them. That they were denied the right to self-determination, and that they were not dealt with fairly. The is a form of negativism in which the under developed culture does not have the ability to stand on its own --- and who tends to be negative. Of course, most cultures have periods or moments of whining, complaining, and displaying “the glass-is-half-empty” attitude now and again, but the continuation --- day after day, year after year, decade after decade --- of dwelling on the worst outcome of any given situation --- droning on and on about the unfairness of the world, then there is something more wrong with the culture than meets the eye.

Most Respectfully,
R

It wouldn't matter if it were the British Virgin Islands. If the British had a deal/treaty/agreement with the Gurkhas to populate the BVIs with thousands Gurkhas and their extended families in order to create a Gurkha National home there, at the expense of the locals, they should, by the terms of the LoN Covenant, have extricated themselves out of that agreement.

There hasn't been any such campaign, validated by an International Organization, against any people that was planned and executed to replace an indigenous people living a continent away from Europe, with a "favored" European people. I don't think that anyone looking at it as a neutral could ever imagine that such a process, with all the opaque and sinister tactics combined with betrayal, used against the Christians and Muslims would be acceptable to any fair and neutral observer.

And like a good little islamonazi stooge you deny the indigenous Jews of Palestine their rights to free determination and a homeland. So how about we make all muslims stateless and destined to wander the world for the next 2,000 years as unwanted pariahs ?

Not true.

Even the PLO Charter specifically recognizes indigenous Jews as legitimate citizens of Palestine.

YOU are one of the most dishonest posters here and one of the most disgusting. Jews are not respected as "citizens." They are considered dhimmis. Anyone who is not Muslim, is a second class citizen.

Tinmore doesn't have any problem with Jews.
But you're right, he is one of, if not the most dishonest poster here.
Funny how he asked you for a link, when we always provide him with links to refute his lies yet he still keeps his position.

He sure seems to have a problem with them to me.

He just ignores any links provided to him.

 

[montelatici]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, that was not a case of a proper application.

There was never a case in which the Arab Palestinian attempted to use their right of self-determination, in an internationally accepted way, and was denied.

What about their 1948 declaration of independence?

(COMMENT)

First, the "All Palestine Government" (APG) was a puppet regime that was totally dependent of Egypt and the Military Governorship; thus "external influence and interference."

Second, the APG announce their declaration four months after the Jewish Palestinian Citizens announced the State of Israel. The APG announcement try to encompass the same sovereign territory as the Jewish Palestinian Citizens already declared under the GA/RES/181(II).

Third, the right of self-determination of the Arab Palestinian Citizens cannot overturn the right of self-determination of the Jew Palestinian Citizens.

It is not a case of the Arab Palestinian Citizens being denied their right of self-determination --- as it is --- being prevented or blocked from interfering with the Jewish Palestinian Citizens's right of self-determination.

Most Respectfully,
R

Firstly, Kosovo was totally dependent on the West's governorship (and military) when it declared independence. Northern Cyprus declared independence and was totally dependent on Turkey. There are many other examples, so your dog won't hunt Rocco.

Secondly, If "the right of self-determination of the Arab Palestinian Citizens cannot overturn the right of self-determination of the Jew Palestinian Citizens."

Then the converse is true.

The right of self-determination of the Jew Palestinian Citizens. cannot overturn the right of self-determination of the Palestinian Citizens.

Declaring itself a Jewish state when over 45% of the population was either Jewish or Muslim (before the Jewish ethnic cleansing), overturned the right of self determination of the Christian and Muslim Palestinians. Another salon dog.

 

[toastman]

There was never a case in which the Arab Palestinian attempted to use their right of self-determination, in an internationally accepted way, and was denied.

What about their 1948 declaration of independence?

Basically non existent.

Just google 'Palestinians declaration of independence' and EVERY link you find will tell you about the 1988 declaration.
When will yiu finally get that through your head ?

 

[P F Tinmore]

There was never a case in which the Arab Palestinian attempted to use their right of self-determination, in an internationally accepted way, and was denied.

What about their 1948 declaration of independence?

Are you German Tinmore?

Good call.

My mother's father was born in Germany and came to the US as a teen after WWI.

My mother's mother was Pennsylvania Dutch.

My father's mother was English.

My father's father was Scotch.

 

[RoccoR]

montelatici, et al,

Firstly, Kosovo was totally dependent on the West's governorship (and military) when it declared independence. Northern Cyprus declared independence and was totally dependent on Turkey. There are many other examples, so your dog won't hunt Rocco.

(COMMENT)

The APG attempted to establish a "declarative state" (which did not exist in reality). The Province of Kosovo established a de jure and de facto (i.e. they exist both in law and in reality) as the Republic of Kosovo. --- While Serbia recognizes the Kosovo governance of the territory, Serbia still claims the territory as an Autonomous Province of Kosovo; as opposed to fully indepent. This is more analogous to the political status of Taiwan --- rather than what you suggest.

The APG state differed significantly in that the declarative government of the territory did not actually have actual control. The APG government existed totally for political convenience and was dissolve by Egypt for the reason - convenience.

The PLO and Palestinian Authority claim that the 1988 State of Palestine is a sovereign state, a claim which has been recognized by more than a 100 states, though the territory it claims is under the de facto control of Israel. This is significantly different in that, the international institution consider "occupation" as not sovereign control and must be negotiated by a determination methodology sanctioned by the Declaration on Principles of International Law concerning Friendly Relations and Co-operation among States through (settlement of their international disputes by negotiation, inquiry, mediation, conciliation, arbitration, judicial settlement) and may not be dissolved by another parent entity.

Cyprus is different yet again. The Turkish Cypriot community, which administers the northern part of the island, refers to itself as the "Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus" (TRNC). The 1996 case Loizidou vs. Turkey, the European Court of Human Rights judged Turkey for having exercised authority in the territory ofNorthern Cyprus.

Cyprus and Kosovo are categorized as Non-UN member states recognized by at least one UN member with limited recognition.

P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, that was not a case of a proper application.

There was never a case in which the Arab Palestinian attempted to use their right of self-determination, in an internationally accepted way, and was denied.

What about their 1948 declaration of independence?

(COMMENT)

First, the "All Palestine Government" (APG) was a puppet regime that was totally dependent of Egypt and the Military Governorship; thus "external influence and interference."

Second, the APG announce their declaration four months after the Jewish Palestinian Citizens announced the State of Israel. The APG announcement try to encompass the same sovereign territory as the Jewish Palestinian Citizens already declared under the GA/RES/181(II).

Third, the right of self-determination of the Arab Palestinian Citizens cannot overturn the right of self-determination of the Jew Palestinian Citizens.

It is not a case of the Arab Palestinian Citizens being denied their right of self-determination --- as it is --- being prevented or blocked from interfering with the Jewish Palestinian Citizens's right of self-determination.

Most Respectfully,
R

Secondly, If "the right of self-determination of the Arab Palestinian Citizens cannot overturn the right of self-determination of the Jew Palestinian Citizens."

Then the converse is true.

The right of self-determination of the Jew Palestinian Citizens. cannot overturn the right of self-determination of the Palestinian Citizens.

(COMMENT)

Yes - all thing being equal, the reverse is very true. But, but all things were not equal. The Jewish exercised their right of self-determination first, and pursuant to International instruction. The APG did not; its action was unilateral and attempting to defy international consensus.

Declaring itself a Jewish state when over 45% of the population was either Jewish or Muslim (before the Jewish ethnic cleansing), overturned the right of self determination of the Christian and Muslim Palestinians. Another salon dog.

(COMMENT)

The recommendation for this action came from the General Assembly as international consensus. The decision to recognize the effort to comply with the "Steps Preparatory to Independence" also came General Assembly as international consensus. The Arab Palestinian declined and ultimately rejected all invitations to join in the process; this being much different from the claim that they were denied their right to self-determination. And in fact, when the PLO finally did get recognition as the "State of Palestine," it was clear that the PLO recognized the international legitimacy of the general consensus.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[montelatici]

"Cyprus and Kosovo are categorized as Non-UN member states recognized by at least one UN member with limited recognition."

So what? Weak response.

"Yes - all thing being equal, the reverse is very true. But, but all things were not equal. The Jewish exercised their right of self-determination first, and pursuant to International instruction. The APG did not; its action was unilateral and attempting to defy international consensus."

Doesn't matter at all. The APG has nothing to do with it. The right to self-determination of the Christians and Muslims was overturned.

You can keep it up, but you are wrong on all counts.

 

[RoccoR]

montelatici, et al,

Never happened.

"

Doesn't matter at all. The APG has nothing to do with it. The right to self-determination of the Christians and Muslims was overturned.

You can keep it up, but you are wrong on all counts.

(COMMENT)

No one overturned the right to self-determination of the Christians and Muslims was overturned.

The Christians and Muslims never exercised the right; only APG attempted to exercise it.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[montelatici]

montelatici, et al,

Never happened.

"

Doesn't matter at all. The APG has nothing to do with it. The right to self-determination of the Christians and Muslims was overturned.

You can keep it up, but you are wrong on all counts.

(COMMENT)

No one overturned the right to self-determination of the Christians and Muslims was overturned.

The Christians and Muslims never exercised the right; only APG attempted to exercise it.

Most Respectfully,
R

But of course it was "overturned" exercising or attempting has nothing to do with it. Keep digging.

 

[P F Tinmore]

montelatici, et al,

Never happened.

"

Doesn't matter at all. The APG has nothing to do with it. The right to self-determination of the Christians and Muslims was overturned.

You can keep it up, but you are wrong on all counts.

(COMMENT)

No one overturned the right to self-determination of the Christians and Muslims was overturned.

The Christians and Muslims never exercised the right; only APG attempted to exercise it.

Most Respectfully,
R

Lets look at the two bodies that claimed independence.

The APG (All Palestinian Government) consisted of over 80 Palestinian leaders. They claimed independence for Palestine's indigenous population, without regard to race, or religion, inside Palestine's international borders.

Israel, on the other hand, was declared inside Palestine's international borders by the foreign Jewish Agency that was created in Zurich by the foreign World Zionist Organization. Of the 37 people who signed Israel's declaration of independence, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of immigrants.

The foreign created Israeli government was not to represent the Palestinian people but to represent the foreign settlers that the Zionists imported to populate their planned Jewish state.

 

[RoccoR]

montelatici, et al,

I don't think you understand the nature of a "right!"

montelatici, et al,

Never happened.

"

Doesn't matter at all. The APG has nothing to do with it. The right to self-determination of the Christians and Muslims was overturned.

You can keep it up, but you are wrong on all counts.

(COMMENT)

No one overturned the right to self-determination of the Christians and Muslims was overturned.

The Christians and Muslims never exercised the right; only APG attempted to exercise it.

Most Respectfully,
R

But of course it was "overturned" exercising or attempting has nothing to do with it. Keep digging.

(COMMENT)

I have the "right" to earn a Million Dollars a year. But my attempts have failed.

• Was my right denied?
• or
• Was my effort unsuccessful?

But, --- to be sure, the "right" does not include the requirement that someone must hand me the Million Dollars; with no effort on my part.

The same is true with even the greatest of all "rights" --- freedom.

Freedom is not free. I can not think of any free nation that has not had to defend or work at defending there sovereignty and personal freedoms in their history.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

montelatici, et al,

I don't think you understand the nature of a "right!"

montelatici, et al,

Never happened.

"

Doesn't matter at all. The APG has nothing to do with it. The right to self-determination of the Christians and Muslims was overturned.

You can keep it up, but you are wrong on all counts.

(COMMENT)

No one overturned the right to self-determination of the Christians and Muslims was overturned.

The Christians and Muslims never exercised the right; only APG attempted to exercise it.

Most Respectfully,
R

But of course it was "overturned" exercising or attempting has nothing to do with it. Keep digging.

(COMMENT)

I have the "right" to earn a Million Dollars a year. But my attempts have failed.

• Was my right denied?
• or
• Was my effort unsuccessful?

But, --- to be sure, the "right" does not include the requirement that someone must hand me the Million Dollars; with no effort on my part.

The same is true with even the greatest of all "rights" --- freedom.

Freedom is not free. I can not think of any free nation that has not had to defend or work at defending there sovereignty and personal freedoms in their history.

Most Respectfully,
R

Freedom is not free. I can not think of any free nation that has not had to defend or work at defending there sovereignty and personal freedoms in their history.​

Like Hamas, Islamic Jihad, the PFLP, etc. are doing as we speak.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

This is so ridiculous.

montelatici, et al,

Never happened.

"

Doesn't matter at all. The APG has nothing to do with it. The right to self-determination of the Christians and Muslims was overturned.

You can keep it up, but you are wrong on all counts.

(COMMENT)

No one overturned the right to self-determination of the Christians and Muslims was overturned.

The Christians and Muslims never exercised the right; only APG attempted to exercise it.

Most Respectfully,
R

Lets look at the two bodies that claimed independence.

The APG (All Palestinian Government) consisted of over 80 Palestinian leaders. They claimed independence for Palestine's indigenous population, without regard to race, or religion, inside Palestine's international borders.

Israel, on the other hand, was declared inside Palestine's international borders by the foreign Jewish Agency that was created in Zurich by the foreign World Zionist Organization. Of the 37 people who signed Israel's declaration of independence, only one was born in Palestine and he was the son of immigrants.

The foreign created Israeli government was not to represent the Palestinian people but to represent the foreign settlers that the Zionists imported to populate their planned Jewish state.

(COMMENT)

This is wrong: Israel, on the other hand, was declared inside Palestine's international borders (WRONG) by the foreign Jewish Agency that was created in Zurich by the foreign World Zionist Organization (WRONG).

• Israel was declared inside the mandate/trusteeship IAW the initial boundaries set by Part II of GA/RES/181(II). The boundaries of the Arab State, the Jewish State, stipulated by the UN General Assembly in Parts II and III of the resolution.
• The creation of the Jewish Agency was stipulated as a requirement by the Allied Powers in Article 4, Paragraph 1 of the Mandate for Palestine.
• The Zionist Organization, was recognized as such agency; required under Article 4, Paragraph 2, of the Mandate for Palestine.
• Both of these requirement were set by the Allied Powers at San Remo in 1920, which was 9 years before the WZO created the agency.

The foreign created Israeli government (WRONG) was not to represent the Palestinian people but to represent the foreign settlers (WRONG) that the Zionists imported to populate their planned Jewish state.

• The Jewish population had the same citizenship as the Arab Palestinian. They were not foreigners. (Citizenship Order)
• The Jewish Citizenry generally represented the all Jews who are willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish national home. (Article 4 Paragraph 2)

There is no resolution or international law, treaty or convention that withholds self-determination from the Jewish Immigrants. There is no resolution or international law, treaty or convention that gives the Arab Palestinian any special rights that supersedes those of the Jewish Constituency the that were taking part in the development of the of the Jewish National Home; or working to complete the Steps Preparatory to Independence as outlined by the General Assembly.

Most Respectfully,
R