Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2

[P F Tinmore]

Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Genetic Diversity
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

PREFACE: I see this as a public policy failure in a defined area.

(COMMENT)

Success and the reduction of violence at the territorial and local levels is critically dependent on the cooperation of the communities and the established consortium (“Political decision-makers and senior civil servants"). If the unification of any element intentionally corrupts the Policing Policy and the abilities of the emergency and police services nay community-level program will simply collapse. And the consortium will blame the Israel police in the aftermath of incited Hostile Arab Palestinians.

Failure at any point (causing lawlessness) is a by-product in wake of the lack of cooperation by all levels of the Arab Palestinians consortium concerned with the authority of the legitimate executive having the power to restore and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety while respecting the agreed-upon system of rights (the International Covenant on Political and Civil Rights) unless absolutely prevented by the consortium.

IF the consortium, as "P F Tinmore" implies, can turn off the hostile conduct when no law enforcement is present, THEN the consortium has the influence to turn off hostile activity at any point in time. This tells the outside observer that there is violence as an outcome of the discretion of the consortium (“Political decision-makers and senior civil servants"). The violence and hostile behaviors of the Arab Palestinians erupt at the discretion of community leaders through incitement by the consortium.

The presence of the Israeli Civil Police is NOT the trigger for violence. The trigger is in the hands of the consortium. The consortium DOES NOT want peace and security.

Most Respectfully,
R

All of the Palestinian's actions are a response the Israel's aggression.

 

[RoccoR]

Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Sense of Time
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

PREFACE:

All of the Palestinian's actions are a response the Israel's aggression.

(COMMENT)
.
Within the operational theater of the territory - I have to wonder what, when, and where your statement ("Israel's aggression") applies? Specifically, what was the "Act of Aggression?" Who is the complainant? In the Act of Aggression, who did the Israel attack?
.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Hollie]

All of the Palestinian's actions are a response the Israel's aggression.

That's another of the slogans you dump into most threads. The pally terrorists on the other hand tell a different story. They tell us with regularity their attacks are religiously motivated.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Sense of Time
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

PREFACE:


(COMMENT)
.
Within the operational theater of the territory - I have to wonder what, when, and where your statement ("Israel's aggression") applies? Specifically, what was the "Act of Aggression?" Who is the complainant? In the Act of Aggression, who did the Israel attack?
.

Most Respectfully,
R

First you have to realize that Israel is a settler colonial project. Its goal has always been all of Palestine without the Palestinians. Move the Palestinians out and move the settlers in. This process started before 1948 and continues to today.

This process requires military force against the civilian population.

 

[Sixties Fan]

First you have to realize that Israel is a settler colonial project. Its goal has always been all of Palestine without the Palestinians. Move the Palestinians out and move the settlers in. This process started before 1948 and continues to today.

This process requires military force against the civilian population.

Israel is NOT a settler colonial project. Stop lying.
Israel is the rebuilding of the Jewish homeland ON Jewish land.

It was never a goal to make the Arabs leave Palestine. You are lying.

Jews would never have hired thousands of Arabs since before the Mandate, as they still do, if their goal had been for there to be fewer to no Arabs on the land.

Stop spreading lies about Jews and Israel.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Israel is NOT a settler colonial project. Stop lying.
Israel is the rebuilding of the Jewish homeland ON Jewish land.

It was never a goal to make the Arabs leave Palestine. You are lying.

Jews would never have hired thousands of Arabs since before the Mandate, as they still do, if their goal had been for there to be fewer to no Arabs on the land.

Stop spreading lies about Jews and Israel.

Israel is the rebuilding of the Jewish homeland ON Jewish land.

So says Israel.

 

[Sixties Fan]

So says Israel.

What an asinine comment. Remain one.

 

[Hollie]

First you have to realize that Israel is a settler colonial project. Its goal has always been all of Palestine without the Palestinians. Move the Palestinians out and move the settlers in. This process started before 1948 and continues to today.

This process requires military force against the civilian population.

First, I think most here realize that you're parroting slogans.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Move the Palestinians out and move the settlers in. This process started before 1948 and continues to today.

That's horrible!
How much progress have they made?
How many "Palestinians" in Israel in 1948?
How many today?

 

[RoccoR]

Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: HISTORICAL CONCEPT
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

PREFACE: As it is in reality, trying to put meaning to terms used a Century ago by the Allied Supreme Council is hard to do. This is especially true when changes by member political heads alter the agreements made. In terms of the post-War Middle East, almost as soon as the Treaty of Sevres was overtaken by events. It did not actually alter the reality on the ground. It was barely four years later that the new and improved Treaty was agreed upon and signed. While the diplomatic effort had some serious kinks in it, it did not have much of an actual impact on the Mandate for Palestine in its application to the territory.

First you have to realize that Israel is a settler colonial project. Its goal has always been all of Palestine without the Palestinians. Move the Palestinians out and move the settlers in. This process started before 1948 and continues to today.

This process requires military force against the civilian population.

(COMMENT)
.
The framework and intent of the 1920 San Remo Conference of the Allied Supreme Council authorized the very first key documents that set the tone, parameters, practical application, and the intent the Principal Allied Powers have agreed on; the Mandate for Palestine. The first key mandate set by the Allied Powers was outlined:

​

Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favor of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country...

SOURCE: Mandate for Palestine as it is recorded by the Avalon Project​

{/quote]​

Now, typically the anti-Israeli and pro-Hostile Arab Palestinian want to focus on the phrase:

"the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine"​

​

Few people understand the "Civil and Religious Rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine." What were these "Rights" the Ottoman Empire bestowed upon the anti-Israeli and pro-Hostile Arab Palestinian." Remembering that the Ottoman Empire had been the sovereign power for hundreds of years. The Allied Powers also expressed three key applications pertaining to: The Jewish National Home, Jewish Immigration, citizenship:

◈. political, administrative, and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home​

◈. shall facilitate Jewish immigration​

◈. shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.​

.
I say all this because there was no such thing as a settler-colonial project or "process started before 1948." Whatever you saw, or think you saw or ever heard of, at the end of the day, the multinational Allied Powers decided it shall be done. Now if the anti-Israeli and pro-Hostile Arab Palestinian intentionally create such trouble as to cripple the environment and alter the arena such that it becomes smaller and smaller, trouble enriched, and a choking atmosphere for the anti-Israeli and pro-Hostile Arab Palestinian, then that explains the problem.

You need to read the very first intent (◈ supra) of the Allied Powers.

Most Respectfully,
R
[/QUOTE]

 

[P F Tinmore]

Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: HISTORICAL CONCEPT
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

PREFACE: As it is in reality, trying to put meaning to terms used a Century ago by the Allied Supreme Council is hard to do. This is especially true when changes by member political heads alter the agreements made. In terms of the post-War Middle East, almost as soon as the Treaty of Sevres was overtaken by events. It did not actually alter the reality on the ground. It was barely four years later that the new and improved Treaty was agreed upon and signed. While the diplomatic effort had some serious kinks in it, it did not have much of an actual impact on the Mandate for Palestine in its application to the territory.

(COMMENT)
.
The framework and intent of the 1920 San Remo Conference of the Allied Supreme Council authorized the very first key documents that set the tone, parameters, practical application, and the intent the Principal Allied Powers have agreed on; the Mandate for Palestine. The first key mandate set by the Allied Powers was outlined:

​

​

Few people understand the "Civil and Religious Rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine." What were these "Rights" the Ottoman Empire bestowed upon the anti-Israeli and pro-Hostile Arab Palestinian." Remembering that the Ottoman Empire had been the sovereign power for hundreds of years. The Allied Powers also expressed three key applications pertaining to: The Jewish National Home, Jewish Immigration, citizenship:

◈. political, administrative, and economic conditions as will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home​

◈. shall facilitate Jewish immigration​

◈. shall be included in this law provisions framed so as to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.​

.
I say all this because there was no such thing as a settler-colonial project or "process started before 1948." Whatever you saw, or think you saw or ever heard of, at the end of the day, the multinational Allied Powers decided it shall be done. Now if the anti-Israeli and pro-Hostile Arab Palestinian intentionally create such trouble as to cripple the environment and alter the arena such that it becomes smaller and smaller, trouble enriched, and a choking atmosphere for the anti-Israeli and pro-Hostile Arab Palestinian, then that explains the problem.

You need to read the very first intent (◈ supra) of the Allied Powers.

Most Respectfully,
R

[/QUOTE]
Holy obfuscation, Batman.

How does that address anything in my post? You are just making excuses.

 

[Hollie]

​

Senior Palestinian Islamic Jihad Official Muhammad Shalah: Allah Brought The Jews To Palestine So We Can Finish Them Off; Iran Gave Us Weapons While The Arabs Gave Us School Supplies​

Senior Palestinian Islamic Jihad Official Muhammad Shalah: Allah Brought The Jews To Palestine So We Can Finish Them Off; Iran Gave Us Weapons While The Arabs Gave Us School Supplies

Senior Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) official Muhammad Shalah said in an April 24, 2022 show on Al-Quds Al-Youm TV (Is...

www.memri.org

Of course Iran gave you weapons my little gee-had cupcake. Weapons from Iran means dead Sunni Arabs.

 

[RoccoR]

Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Responses to Posting 22405
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Holy obfuscation, Batman.

How does that address anything in my post? You are just making excuses.

(COMMENT)

I broke down each element in your grand accusation and compensatable offensive act. I addressed them one by one. I'm not making excuses. You are using the unsubstantiated complainant to avoid a response. You could not answer even the simplest of interrogatives.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Responses to Posting 22405
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,



(COMMENT)

I broke down each element in your grand accusation and compensatable offensive act. I addressed them one by one. I'm not making excuses. You are using the unsubstantiated complainant to avoid a response. You could not answer even the simplest of interrogatives.

Most Respectfully,
R

The UN says that the Palestinians in Palestine have the right to self determination without external interference, the right to independence and sovereignty. That is what the UN Charter says. That is what international law says.

Whenever I post "without external interference" you post a page of external interference.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The UN says that the Palestinians in Palestine have the right to self determination

But not the ability.

 

[RoccoR]

Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2
SUBTOPIC: Responses to Posting 22405
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

PREFACE: Most of the time, when participants contribute to this topic, confusion erupts because one participant is speaking to the same "word" but they are speaking to it because of "different meanings." Of all the disagreements in this forum topic, these concepts are most confusing.

The UN says that the Palestinians in Palestine have the right to self determination without external interference, the right to independence and sovereignty. That is what the UN Charter says. That is what international law says.

Whenever I post "without external interference" you post a page of external interference.

But not the ability.

(COMMENT)

AT THE OUTSET: Our friend "Toddsterpatriot" is right on the money. Actually, he hit the center of the bulls-eye; not just the center of the target. When we speak of "sovereignty" the tail often expressed is "without external interference," or directly implied. You cannot have sovereignty if you have external interference. Sovereignty and the associated Independence actually means that the government in control IS the Supreme Authority (no higher power exists political or otherwise).

• The ability, to take any given action over the territory is "de facto sovereignty."
• The international legal right to do so (but not necessarily the ability) is "de jure Sovereignty."

In an elevated understanding, there are four types of sovereignty:

• Westphalian sovereignty,
  • refers to political organization based on the exclusion of external actors from authority structures within a given territory.
• domestic sovereignty,
  • formal organization of political authority within the state
  • exclusion of external actors from domestic authority structures.
  • control and the regulation of transborder movements
• interdependence sovereignty
  • the ability of public authorities to regulate the flow of information, ideas, goods, people, services, or financial activity across the borders of their state.
• International Legal Sovereignty
  • practices associated with mutual recognition

Most of the issues the most propagandized by the anti-israeli and pro-Arab Palestinian Movements revolve around
this type of confusion. For instance, much of the "apartheid" rhetoric by the anti-israeli and pro-Arab Palestinian Movements are predicated on "Transborder" issues of the variety → domestic sovereignty. That is agreed upon by the membership in the Charter.

Every now and then, you will see "P F Tinmore" challenge me on the matter of Israel ruling by the force of arms. And he will raise the issue of the sovereignty rests with the people. (It is a Great Concept but hard to achieve.)
International legal sovereignty and Westphalian sovereignty involve issues of authority and legitimacy, but not actual control or the reality happening. I am not sure that the Arab Palestinians even have any interdependent sovereignty. The Arab Palestinians are totally dependent on financial contributions or exchanges from external sources. If the Ramallah and Gaza Governments are totally dependent on Donor Contributions; is that "external interference."

When we speak of Sovereignty, especially in relations with governments like that of Ramallah and Gaza, should all aid be cut-off in order to divest the potential external influences they create? (RHETORICAL).

Just a few thoughts,

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Hollie]

For some reason unbeknownst to me, the international community continues to fund the Islamic Death Cult.

Terrorists are “heroic” and “pioneers” and are given jobs in the PA | PMW Analysis

Speaking at a rally the Director of the PA-funded PLO Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs told the crowd that the “heroic” terrorists are the “pioneers of the Palestinian people who defend the Palestinian honor and holy sites”

palwatch.org

Terrorists are “heroic” and “pioneers” and are given jobs in the PA
Maurice Hirsch, Adv. | Apr 28, 2022

Speaking at a rally to mark “Palestinian Prisoner’s Day,” the Director of the PA-funded PLO Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs Qadri Abu Bakr told the crowd that the “heroic” terrorists - many of whom are murderers and mass murderers - are the “pioneers of the Palestinian people who defend the Palestinian honor and holy sites”:

“Yesterday [April 17, 2022] hundreds of civilians participated in a rally to mark Palestinian Prisoner’s Day at Al-Manara Square in central Ramallah…

Director of [PLO] Commission of Prisoners’ Affairs Qadri Abu Bakr said in his speech during the rally that the heroic prisoners are the pioneers of our people, and that they are defending our honor and our holy sites…”

[Official PA daily Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, April 18, 2022]

 

[Sixties Fan]

Senior Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) official Muhammad Shalah said in an April 24, 2022 show on Al-Quds Al-Youm TV (Islamic Jihad – Gaza) that Palestine is unquestionably Palestinian land, and that the Jews have no historical claim to it. He also said that Allah brought the Jews to Palestine for the Palestinians to "finish them off. In addition, he said that the PIJ is part of the Iran-backed "resistance axis" and that while Iran supplied the Palestinians with rockets and weapons, the Arabs only gave them school supplies. Muhammad Shalah is the brother of the former leader of the Islamic Jihad, Ramadan Abdullah Shalah who died in 2020.

(full article online)

Senior Palestinian Islamic Jihad Official Muhammad Shalah: Allah Brought The Jews To Palestine So We Can Finish Them Off; Iran Gave Us Weapons While The Arabs Gave Us School Supplies

Senior Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) official Muhammad Shalah said in an April 24, 2022 show on Al-Quds Al-Youm TV (Islamic Jihad – Gaza) that Palestine is unquestionably Palestinian land, and that the Jews have no historical claim to it. He also said that Allah brought the Jews to Palestine...

www.memri.org

 

[Hollie]

It's refreshing to read about the eventual dissolution of UNRWA. The bloated agency long ago became a black hole of greed and corruption,

Time To Put The Skids On UNRWA

Palestinian leaders reacted with dismay to UNWRA’s plan claiming it could well lead to UNWRA’s eventual dissolution. And well they should be concerned.

www.jewishpress.com

Palestinian leaders reacted with dismay to UNWRA’s plan claiming it could well lead to UNWRA’s eventual dissolution. And well they should be concerned. They stand to lose a principal prop for their continuing in power. But for the rest of us there are compelling reasons to welcome UNWRA’s demise. It continues as one of the more powerful reasons that the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians has not been peacefully resolved.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Palestine Brave Kids Status ||Palestine Viral video|| Bra Dushman bna Phirta hai ||#SavePalestine✌​