Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2

[P F Tinmore]

I am tired of hearing the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) constantly claiming the Israelis have this thirst to kill children. We know this is absurd.

Israel bombs family homes then claims that it does not target women and children.

 

[Sixties Fan]

While the PA maintains that “popular resistance” is “peaceful” and non-violent, Palestinian Media Watch has documented that the terms “popular uprising/resistance” and “peaceful uprising/resistance” are used by PA leaders to refer not only to peaceful protest but also at times to deadly terror attacks and terror waves.

For example, PA Chairman Abbas defined as “peaceful popular” the murderous terror during the 2015-2016 ‎terror wave (“The Knife Intifada”), in which 40 people were killed (36 Israelis, 1 Palestinian, 2 Americans and 1 Eritrean) and hundreds wounded in stabbings, shootings, and car ramming attacks. Abbas said: "We want peaceful popular uprising, and that’s what this is." At the time Abbas said this, 14 Israelis had already been murdered.

Now the PA has again intensified its calls for “popular resistance,” and several PA and PLO officials have urged Palestinians to engage in activities like the first Intifada - the Palestinian wave of violence and terror against Israel 1987-1993, in which approximately 200 Israelis were murdered.

Referring to meetings within the PLO and Fatah, Director-General of Popular Activity in the PA-controlled Committee to Resist Settlements and the Wall Abdallah Abu Rahma explained that the “main topic” there, and for Abbas too, is “popular resistance.” Abu Rahma clarified what they mean by the term - violence intifada style:

(full article online)

PA calls for terror - “popular resistance” – like the first Intifada when “we were masters of the roads” and “the settlers were like hiding rats” | PMW Analysis

PA official: “Everyone believes that the model of the first Intifada is the most efficient, strongest, most effective, and perhaps the shortest model in order to achieve the Palestinian people’s rights”

palwatch.org

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2​

SUBTOPIC: The Intent of the Law, → Human Shields and Hostages...
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: The Palestinian Constitution is merely window dressing. To give the appearance of a matured government.

Those are constitutionally protected political parties in Palestine.

(OBSERVATION)

Article 36
• Head of state term limits

The term of the presidency of the National Authority shall be four years. The
President shall have the right to nominate himself for a second term of presidency,
provided that he shall not occupy the position of the presidency more than two consecutive terms.

President Abbas is in ≈ the 15th year of his 4 year term.

(COMMENT)

The politically protected protection is not what legitimate political parties gain from the Constitution.

The Palestinian Constitution is about as useful as toilet paper.

The shield of the government does not change the character of the party. It can still be a party that re-nominates itself. And if the government exists for the single-minded member's areas siphoning.

(AΩ) Leadership that is in the business of governing may look the part and exercise authority that has no discipline are dangerous to all civilizations. To them, it is a way to legitimize the Government and an opportunity for graphed and organized corruption under the color of law.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2​

SUBTOPIC: The Intent of the Law, → Human Shields and Hostages...
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

This is just another case of twisting the facts to suit the Hostile Arab Palestinians.

Israel bombs family homes then claims that it does not target women and children.

(COMMENT)

RULE 23: "Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, avoid locating military objectives within or near densely populated areas."

"It is also related to the prohibition of human shields (see Rule 97), as everything feasible must be done to separate military objectives from the civilian population, but in no event may civilians be used to shield military objectives."

---

It must be understood that when the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) begin “utilizing the presence of a civilian or other protected person to render certain points, areas or military forces immune from military operations” constitutes a war crime in international armed conflicts. And that is what you are doing in your response. You are saying that the HAMAS target may not be targeted because HAMAS located it in a densely populated area.

In addition, deliberately using civilians to shield military operations is contrary to the principle of distinction and violates the obligation to take feasible precautions to separate civilians and military objectives (see Rules 23–24).

The Israelis are NOT targeting women and children, but are targeting the object of military significance set in close proximity (by HAMAS) to the civilians.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

"Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, avoid locating military objectives within or near densely populated areas."

Like sleeping at home with the wife and kids?

Israel is soooooo full of shit.

 

[Hollie]

Like sleeping at home with the wife and kids?

Israel is soooooo full of shit.

The reality of Islamic terrorists waging gee-had from residential areas is undeniable... for most rational humans.

Why do you folks groom your children like this?

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2​

SUBTOPIC: The Intent of the Law, → Human Shields and Hostages...
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

If the high value target is sleeping with the "wife and kids" - the "wife and kids" constitutes a shield for the target, "you cannot target me because I am with the wife and kids." In what world does that make sense? (RHETORICAL) It is not like the Israelis are acting like Arab Palestinians (example: The Palestinian Role Model Dalal al-Maghribi) and go looking for bus loads of men, women, and children to butcher → civilian targets.

Like sleeping at home with the wife and kids?

Israel is soooooo full of shit.

(REFERENCE)

2. With respect to attacks, the following precautions shall be taken:

(a) those who plan or decide upon an attack shall:​

​

(i) do everything feasible to verify that the objectives to be attacked are neither civilians nor civilian objects and are not subject to special protection but are military objectives within the meaning of paragraph 2 of Article 52 [ Link ] and that it is not prohibited by the provisions of this Protocol to attack them;​

​

(ii) take all feasible precautions in the choice of means and methods of attack with a view to avoiding, and in any event to minimizing, incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians and damage to civilian objects;​

​

(iii) refrain from deciding to launch any attack which may be expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated;​

(COMMENT)

What is important is found in Article 57(2)(a)(iii) which you all too often try to bury under emotionally packed pro-Arab Palestinian sentiment. If the military commander's intent is to gain a concrete and direct military advantage after the attack, then such an attack is covered by International Humanitarian Law.

Another point you constantly raise is the one about the complaint in the destruction of housing. Not in always the case, but in some cases, where a place of worship, a house or other dwelling or a school, is being is being used as cover and concealment or safehouse in direct support of Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) purposes within the West Bank or Jerusalem, such a structure may be demolished or destroyed to prevent a further use by those HoAP element that have pledged that "armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine" and with the intention of → or calculated to → cause death or serious bodily injury to the occupation force or any segment of the civilian population...

(AΩ) I think it is relatively naive of you to think that any self-defense mission, security operation, or counterterrorism campaign is a 9-to-5 job. The detection exploitation and neutralization (DEN) of HoAP operations is a 24/7 offensive program. The HoAP do not get to claim "end-of-day - I'm free and off the clock." They already know that the self-defense mission, security operation, or counterterrorism campaign never stops. And if the HoAP fail to follow the seven rules, the uninvolved Arab Palestinians may pay the price. And people like you canNOT claim foul.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2​

SUBTOPIC: The Intent of the Law, → Human Shields and Hostages...
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

If the high value target is sleeping with the "wife and kids" - the "wife and kids" constitutes a shield for the target, "you cannot target me because I am with the wife and kids." In what world does that make sense? (RHETORICAL) It is not like the Israelis are acting like Arab Palestinians (example: The Palestinian Role Model Dalal al-Maghribi) and go looking for bus loads of men, women, and children to butcher → civilian targets.


(REFERENCE)

2. With respect to attacks, the following precautions shall be taken:

(a) those who plan or decide upon an attack shall:​

​

(i) do everything feasible to verify that the objectives to be attacked are neither civilians nor civilian objects and are not subject to special protection but are military objectives within the meaning of paragraph 2 of Article 52 [ Link ] and that it is not prohibited by the provisions of this Protocol to attack them;​

​

(ii) take all feasible precautions in the choice of means and methods of attack with a view to avoiding, and in any event to minimizing, incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians and damage to civilian objects;​

​

(iii) refrain from deciding to launch any attack which may be expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated;​

(COMMENT)

What is important is found in Article 57(2)(a)(iii) which you all too often try to bury under emotionally packed pro-Arab Palestinian sentiment. If the military commander's intent is to gain a concrete and direct military advantage after the attack, then such an attack is covered by International Humanitarian Law.

Another point you constantly raise is the one about the complaint in the destruction of housing. Not in always the case, but in some cases, where a place of worship, a house or other dwelling or a school, is being is being used as cover and concealment or safehouse in direct support of Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) purposes within the West Bank or Jerusalem, such a structure may be demolished or destroyed to prevent a further use by those HoAP element that have pledged that "armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine" and with the intention of → or calculated to → cause death or serious bodily injury to the occupation force or any segment of the civilian population...

(AΩ) I think it is relatively naive of you to think that any self-defense mission, security operation, or counterterrorism campaign is a 9-to-5 job. The detection exploitation and neutralization (DEN) of HoAP operations is a 24/7 offensive program. The HoAP do not get to claim "end-of-day - I'm free and off the clock." They already know that the self-defense mission, security operation, or counterterrorism campaign never stops. And if the HoAP fail to follow the seven rules, the uninvolved Arab Palestinians may pay the price. And people like you canNOT claim foul.

Most Respectfully,
R

I smell Israeli bullshit. Not a rocket in sight, Not a gun in sight. Not a military vehicle in sight. Not a uniform in sight. Not a flag in sight.

What is Israel's so called military advantage? You will duck this question, as usual.

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2​

SUBTOPIC: The Intent of the Law, → Human Shields and Hostages...
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

If the high value target is sleeping with the "wife and kids" - the "wife and kids" constitutes a shield for the target, "you cannot target me because I am with the wife and kids." In what world does that make sense? (RHETORICAL) It is not like the Israelis are acting like Arab Palestinians (example: The Palestinian Role Model Dalal al-Maghribi) and go looking for bus loads of men, women, and children to butcher → civilian targets.


(REFERENCE)

2. With respect to attacks, the following precautions shall be taken:

(a) those who plan or decide upon an attack shall:​

​

(i) do everything feasible to verify that the objectives to be attacked are neither civilians nor civilian objects and are not subject to special protection but are military objectives within the meaning of paragraph 2 of Article 52 [ Link ] and that it is not prohibited by the provisions of this Protocol to attack them;​

​

(ii) take all feasible precautions in the choice of means and methods of attack with a view to avoiding, and in any event to minimizing, incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians and damage to civilian objects;​

​

(iii) refrain from deciding to launch any attack which may be expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated;​

(COMMENT)

What is important is found in Article 57(2)(a)(iii) which you all too often try to bury under emotionally packed pro-Arab Palestinian sentiment. If the military commander's intent is to gain a concrete and direct military advantage after the attack, then such an attack is covered by International Humanitarian Law.

Another point you constantly raise is the one about the complaint in the destruction of housing. Not in always the case, but in some cases, where a place of worship, a house or other dwelling or a school, is being is being used as cover and concealment or safehouse in direct support of Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) purposes within the West Bank or Jerusalem, such a structure may be demolished or destroyed to prevent a further use by those HoAP element that have pledged that "armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine" and with the intention of → or calculated to → cause death or serious bodily injury to the occupation force or any segment of the civilian population...

(AΩ) I think it is relatively naive of you to think that any self-defense mission, security operation, or counterterrorism campaign is a 9-to-5 job. The detection exploitation and neutralization (DEN) of HoAP operations is a 24/7 offensive program. The HoAP do not get to claim "end-of-day - I'm free and off the clock." They already know that the self-defense mission, security operation, or counterterrorism campaign never stops. And if the HoAP fail to follow the seven rules, the uninvolved Arab Palestinians may pay the price. And people like you canNOT claim foul.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2​

SUBTOPIC: The Intent of the Law, → Human Shields and Hostages...
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I will have you know that these thoughts are my thoughts - and NOT some "Israeli bullshit" as you would like to believe; and have others believe.

I smell Israeli bullshit. Not a rocket in sight, Not a gun in sight. Not a military vehicle in sight. Not a uniform in sight. Not a flag in sight.

(COMMENT)

And I really do not care what your ad Hominem attack is based. If you want to discuss the concept and content of the "FACTs" that I have annotated by official sources, then let's do so.

What is Israel's so called military advantage? You will duck this question, as usual.

(COMMENT)

The Military Commander's intent is in the Operations Order (OPORD) for the mission. And obviously, you did not read my commentary or check the references. IF you had bothered to check the Protocol THEN you would have understood that it stipulates: "in the circumstances ruling at the time, offers a definite military advantage." No doubt that you will say that I ducked the question. Well, then so be it. I would NOT have access to a foreign military mission OPORD even if you had provided the necessary information required to identify that OPORD from all the other OPORDs.

You would also have seen, if you had done the research, that: "State practice indicates that an attacker is not prevented from attacking military objectives if the defender fails to take appropriate precautions or deliberately uses civilians to shield military operations."

This is what you are attempting to support. This is what the Seven Critical Rules (on this narrow topic) are in Posting #21884 (Rules 23-24).

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2​

SUBTOPIC: The Intent of the Law, → Human Shields and Hostages...
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

I will have you know that these thoughts are my thoughts - and NOT some "Israeli bullshit" as you would like to believe; and have others believe.


(COMMENT)

And I really do not care what your ad Hominem attack is based. If you want to discuss the concept and content of the "FACTs" that I have annotated by official sources, then let's do so.


(COMMENT)

The Military Commander's intent is in the Operations Order (OPORD) for the mission. And obviously, you did not read my commentary or check the references. IF you had bothered to check the Protocol THEN you would have understood that it stipulates: "in the circumstances ruling at the time, offers a definite military advantage." No doubt that you will say that I ducked the question. Well, then so be it. I would NOT have access to a foreign military mission OPORD even if you had provided the necessary information required to identify that OPORD from all the other OPORDs.

You would also have seen, if you had done the research, that: "State practice indicates that an attacker is not prevented from attacking military objectives if the defender fails to take appropriate precautions or deliberately uses civilians to shield military operations."

This is what you are attempting to support. This is what the Seven Critical Rules (on this narrow topic) are in Posting #21884 (Rules 23-24).

Most Respectfully,
R

Israel bombs thousands of homes yet kills only a couple hundred fighters.

Your numbers don't add up.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Israel bombs thousands of homes yet kills only a couple hundred fighters.

Your numbers don't add up.

Your numbers don't add up.

Russian learned propaganda.

Exaggerate, lie, make ignorant people believe you.

How many people have you been able to recruit against Israel so far? Any luck, yet?

 

[P F Tinmore]

 

[Sixties Fan]

Samah Sabawi’s article is a disappointing confirmation that many supporters of the Palestinian cause appear incapable of seeing any Palestinian faults. She uses highly emotional language that paints Palestinians as blameless victims and Israelis as brutal overlords, all while taking great care to strip out any facts or context that might hint at the deeper complexity of the Israeli–Palestinian dispute and the legitimate claims and bad choices made on both sides.

By casting Palestinians as one-dimensional victims, Sabawi and those like her deny Palestinians agency and thus strip them of their humanity. The human condition is that people — individuals and societies — do have agency. Palestinians are not automatons. They have the ability to make choices, and sometimes those choices are bad.

-------
Israel has been prepared to negotiate a two-state outcome since 1993, but Palestinian rejectionism has prevented Israel from doing so. A unilateral withdrawal might be an option, but it’s worth remembering that the last time Israel did that — in 2005, from Gaza — it was repaid with tens of thousands of rockets and three wars. There’s little chance of a similar move taking place, especially since, unlike Gaza, the West Bank abuts Israel’s urban, industrial, and commercial centres. As I’ve written elsewhere, Israel doesn’t want a Hamas-run, Gaza-like, rocket-spewing entity to emerge in the West Bank, and won’t be leaving until it is convinced the Palestinians are both willing and able to keep the peace.

This puts Israel in the horns of a dilemma; Israel faces mounting pressure for maintaining an occupation it doesn’t want, but cannot make peace because the Palestinians won’t let it. The Palestinians abandoned negotiations because they discovered that by pursuing an internationalist path, such as through the UN and associated treaty bodies, they were able to gain significant leverage over Israel without having to make any of those compromises that negotiations demand of all sides.

The strategic corner into which Palestinian rejectionism has wedged Israel is a key reason as to why Israel is considering this move. It would be wrong to argue that Israel is making this move only because of Palestinian rejectionism, but it’s absolutely correct to argue that if the Palestinians hadn’t so consistently rejected Israeli attempts at peace, they wouldn’t be facing this predicament now.

Anyone who tells you the Israeli–Palestinian dispute is simple is either lying or ignorant. But what is simple is that true peace will only come about through negotiations. It is time for Palestinians to choose to return to the negotiating table — for their sake, for Israel’s sake and for the sake of peace. Palestinians can choose. They have agency. Will they choose peace or will they, yet again, choose violence? What is clear is, they have a choice. They have agency. And, like all people, they should be held accountable for the choices they make.

(full article online)

Peace is not served by denying complexity - ABC Religion & Ethics

The tendency among many supporters of the Palestinian cause, like Samah Sabawi, to cast Palestinians as blameless victims and Israelis as brutal overlords, while stripping away the complexity of the Israeli–Palestinian dispute and ignoring the legitimate claims and bad choices made on both...

www.abc.net.au

 

[Sixties Fan]

( More Child Abuse. Every child led to be taught and believe fear for Jews, so that they must be expelled or killed. Child Abuse of the worse kind, because then they grow up and want do become murderers. But this girl may only become a leader of those who will be incited to attack and kill Jews all over the world )


“Not a single settler, Israeli, or Jew will remain in our land. We will liberate Palestine, Allah willing.”

Those are the words of a young Palestinian girl. But not just any girl. Mayar Jaradat is the daughter of one of the terrorists who recently murdered 25-year-old Israeli Yehuda Dimentman in a shooting attack west of Nablus.

Mayar’s statement reflects PA education that instructs Palestinian children to see Israel as a temporary phenomenon, an illegitimate state that will come to an end after which “Palestine” will take its place.

The statement that “not a single settler, Israeli, or Jew will remain in our land” is pretty unambiguous. “Palestine” will be “Judenrein” - clean of Jews - to quote an infamous familiar term. How exactly this is to come about the girl didn’t say, but given her terrorist father’s actions this aspiration would seem to not merely be an abstract concept but rather a plan to be carried out on the ground.

The notion that terror is a Palestinian right and that dying as a “Martyr” is an ideal is also taught to Palestinian kids through Fatah’s magazine Waed for children ages 6-15, as recently exposed in a report by Palestinian Media Watch.

Fatah reminds its child readers of the Movement’s announcement after its first terror attack on Jan. 1, 1965, presenting it as an expression of its current ideology:

“[It is] our people’s right to wage an armed struggle to take back its stolen homeland.” (Waed, Issue 28, p. 4)

Fatah also presents mass murderers as heroic role models, including the “Martyr” Dalal Mughrabi who in 1978 led the Coastal Road massacre. Palestinian terrorists hijacked a bus and murdered 37 Israeli civilians, including 12 children - the deadliest terror attack in Israeli history.

In Waed, Fatah also teaches children that “Palestine” will replace the entire State of Israel

(full article online)

“We’ll liberate the land, not a single Jew will remain,” says daughter of terrorist murderer | PMW Analysis

All of Israel - including Lod, Ramle, the Negev, Jaffa, and Haifa - is ”Palestine” and “belongs to us,” according to Fatah official

palwatch.org

 

[Sixties Fan]

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Who Are The Palestinians? Part 2​

SUBTOPIC: Knowledge of Presentation
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

OH, the role of knowledge here is crippled.

Israel bombs thousands of homes yet kills only a couple hundred fighters.
Your numbers don't add up.

(COMMENT)

Thousands of homes bombed... How did you come by this knowledge?

Only a couple hundred fighters killed. How did you come by this knowledge?

I actually do not recall ever seeing a Battle Damage Assessment (BDA). I think have seen evidence that:

• HAMAS Fighters used ambulances as personnel transport.​

• I have seen HAMAS fighters dressed in civilian clothes.​

• I have seen evidence of rockets being stored in UNRWA School facilities.​

I could go on, but I have run out of steam.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Sixties Fan]

 

[Sixties Fan]

 

[Sixties Fan]