Who are the Jews and who are the Hebrews?

[montelatici]

For those who are not interested in reading scholarly articles and books, here is a lecture delivered by Israeli Professor Shlomo Sand

This will really upset our resident Zionists. LOL

Oh, please. Shlomo Sand and his soundly debunked Khazar theory? "Scholarly articles", my ass.

A am referring Ben Gurion's and other founding Zionist's conclusion that the Palestinians are mostly the descendants of Jews that converted to Christianity and Islam. Something that was so obvious until it became an inconvenient truth a few decades ago.

 

[flacaltenn]

Canaanism

Lehi and Irgum would members of Revisionist Zionism, and both were consider terrorist organization by

The US, Britain, the UN, and even the Zionist Congress. They are repsonable for many crimes of terror in Europe, Britain and Italy and even in Palestine, to include the King David Hotel Bombing and the Dier Yassin Massacre.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canaanism

The movement was founded in 1939. In 1943 the Jewish-Palestinian poet Yonatan Ratosh published an "Epistle to the Hebrew Youth", the first manifesto of the Canaanites. In this tract, Ratosh called upon Hebrew youth to disaffiliate themselves from Judaism, and declared that no meaningful bond united Hebrew youth residing in Palestine and Judaism. Ratosh argued that Judaism was not a nation but a religion, and as such it was universal, without territorial claims; one could be Jewish anywhere. For a nation to genuinely arise in Palestine, he maintained, the youth must uncouple from Judaism and form a Hebrew nation with its own unique identity. (The term "Hebrew" had been associated with the Zionist aspiration to create a strong, self-confident "new Jew" since the late nineteenth century).[5][6] The birthplace and geographical coordinates of this nation is the Fertile Crescent.

Who was the founder, Yonatan Ratosh

In 1939, he founded the Canaanite movement, which rejected both religion and Jewish nationalism.

Yonatan Ratosh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now in the OT the Hebrews who we were taught founded the jewish religion fought and killed the Canaanites, not all since so many Hebrews married them, but Jews and Hebrews are not Canaanites,

so the Palestinians must be the Canaanites who converted to Muslim.

My huge question is who are the Hebrews and where did you come from, your atheists and you hate the Palestinians because they practice a religion. You hate religion, which we seen in Russia, you killed Jews and Christians. As a secular group , don't you value human life and freedom, or only for the wicked.

Did you have Caananite Crisps for breakfast this morning or what?

From the Wiki you quoted ----

Most of its members were part of the Irgunor Lehi,[2] never had more than around two dozen registered members (but most of these were influential intellectuals and artists, giving the movement an influence far beyond its size),[3] and believed that much of the Middle East had been a Hebrew-speaking civilization in antiquity.[4]

Little tiny factoids for little tiny minds. This is LESS significant than snake handlers.

Wouldn't want to go back and visit the practices and belief of Islamists before Mohammed would you?

I agree with the earlier post.. Charleton Heston will set you straight. Netflix or maybe On Demand.
Geeeezbus.. (pardon me followers of Christ)...

Do you understand Pene -- that if a liberal artist suddenly wakes up one morning and DECLARES HIMSELF a Caananite -- That does not MAKE the guy a 20th Century Caananite?

It's not like waking up as Kaitlin Jenner...

 

[Penelope]

All of us know Israel was to be set up as a secular country , not a religious Jewish one. If your control the culture you control everything.


The Canaanite movement (also known as the "Hebrews" or "Young Hebrews") in Israel was a very important cultural phenomenon. Their impact reached much beyond the two dozen registered members that it may ever have had, because most of its members were central intellectuals in Israeli society: poets, prose writers, sculptors, linguists, essayists, and commanders as well as rank and file fighters, typically in the two small military underground organizations, Etzel and Lekhi, but to a lesser extent also in the Palmakh. Historically, the movement was an offshoot of the radical right-wing revisionist movement headed by Jabotinsky, which in the 1930s formed an ideological and organizational alternative to the mainstream policy of practical Zionism ("another acre, another goat") in order to revise Zionism (hence: "revisionists") in a more military and politically anti-Arab way.

Two Brief Introductions to Hebrew Canaanism by Ron Kuzar

The real goal is to have all Hebrew speaking people and to get rid of the religious zealots. You could never have a all Jewish country with everyone speaking a different language could you?

When the Polish kids that had lost their parents ended up in Israel, they did everything they could to get the religion out of them.

 

[Lipush]

Yes Jroc, the joke is on everyone

Canaanism

Lehi and Irgum would members of Revisionist Zionism, and both were consider terrorist organization by

The US, Britain, the UN, and even the Zionist Congress. They are repsonable for many crimes of terror in Europe, Britain and Italy and even in Palestine, to include the King David Hotel Bombing and the Dier Yassin Massacre.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canaanism

The movement was founded in 1939. In 1943 the Jewish-Palestinian poet Yonatan Ratosh published an "Epistle to the Hebrew Youth", the first manifesto of the Canaanites. In this tract, Ratosh called upon Hebrew youth to disaffiliate themselves from Judaism, and declared that no meaningful bond united Hebrew youth residing in Palestine and Judaism. Ratosh argued that Judaism was not a nation but a religion, and as such it was universal, without territorial claims; one could be Jewish anywhere. For a nation to genuinely arise in Palestine, he maintained, the youth must uncouple from Judaism and form a Hebrew nation with its own unique identity. (The term "Hebrew" had been associated with the Zionist aspiration to create a strong, self-confident "new Jew" since the late nineteenth century).[5][6] The birthplace and geographical coordinates of this nation is the Fertile Crescent.

Who was the founder, Yonatan Ratosh

In 1939, he founded the Canaanite movement, which rejected both religion and Jewish nationalism.

Yonatan Ratosh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now in the OT the Hebrews who we were taught founded the jewish religion fought and killed the Canaanites, not all since so many Hebrews married them, but Jews and Hebrews are not Canaanites,

so the Palestinians must be the Canaanites who converted to Muslim.

My huge question is who are the Hebrews and where did you come from, your atheists and you hate the Palestinians because they practice a religion. You hate religion, which we seen in Russia, you killed Jews and Christians. As a secular group , don't you value human life and freedom, or only for the wicked.

If you watch the movie "Exodus" (1960) with Paul Newman and Eva Marie Saint, then all your questions will be answered.

I've seen more Exodus movies that I can count. I am talking history here not some books wrote centuries ago, but who knows who. The Exodus never happened as told in the bible.

The 1960 movie was based on a book by the same name that was published in 1958 based on the story of the 1947 Immigration Ship named Exodus and not the Biblical Story in the Tanakh...

Exodus (Uris novel) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I was joking. I guess I thought of that movie because the hero's name was Ben Canaan or something like that. I don't take Penelope's posts seriously because she's choking with anti-Jewish hatred.

Who are jews, the ones who are orthodox, as I'm sure if you read the links you will know Zionism has nothing to do with any religion, as a matter of fact they did not want orthodox jews moving to Israel.

Suddenly your no longer the terrorists anymore but you sure started out that way in Palestine. Never was Palestine to be a two state area, it was begun under the false pretense that Zionist accepted that. Hebrew was a holy language although resurrected as a secular language. Hebrew is the name of your religion, and it does not include any orthodox religion, but once again , we have the Hebrews fighting amongst themselves as usual. There was never peace in the "holy land". Invaders do not bring peace.

Where do you get that nonsense of Zionists don't wanting Orthodox Jews to be israelis?

What a lunacy.

 

[Penelope]

Yes Jroc, the joke is on everyone

If you watch the movie "Exodus" (1960) with Paul Newman and Eva Marie Saint, then all your questions will be answered.

I've seen more Exodus movies that I can count. I am talking history here not some books wrote centuries ago, but who knows who. The Exodus never happened as told in the bible.

The 1960 movie was based on a book by the same name that was published in 1958 based on the story of the 1947 Immigration Ship named Exodus and not the Biblical Story in the Tanakh...

Exodus (Uris novel) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I was joking. I guess I thought of that movie because the hero's name was Ben Canaan or something like that. I don't take Penelope's posts seriously because she's choking with anti-Jewish hatred.

Who are jews, the ones who are orthodox, as I'm sure if you read the links you will know Zionism has nothing to do with any religion, as a matter of fact they did not want orthodox jews moving to Israel.

Suddenly your no longer the terrorists anymore but you sure started out that way in Palestine. Never was Palestine to be a two state area, it was begun under the false pretense that Zionist accepted that. Hebrew was a holy language although resurrected as a secular language. Hebrew is the name of your religion, and it does not include any orthodox religion, but once again , we have the Hebrews fighting amongst themselves as usual. There was never peace in the "holy land". Invaders do not bring peace.

Where do you get that nonsense of Zionists don't wanting Orthodox Jews to be israelis?

What a lunacy.

Missing Children

The issue of the missing Yemenite and other Jewish children is well-known in Israel, but surprisingly, it is virtually unknown abroad. In the years 1948-1954 thousands of Jewish children were taken, sometimes forcibly, from their biological parents while in hospitals or child-care homes.

(snip)

Without any doubt, stealing children from their parents is a horrendous crime. But, how is it possible that the goverment conducted such activities? The government policy was to create a modern Jew, a new Israeli. To leave the Jewish isolation behind, and start living like all the other nations in the world, to build a normal country. High ranking politicians would say: "The day we see Jewish criminals and Jewish prostitutes walking the streets of Israel, then we will have succeeded in our goal of creating a normal state, just like the rest of the nations in the world." (I have no idea what nations they are talking about) And regretfully, they succeeded in this issue.

The main reason Jewish children were stolen from their parents, was to provide them with a non-Torah education. The ruling class saw Torah Law and Jewish traditions as primitive, and tried to erase this from the Jews. They created a large number of Jews who have no idea of what it means to be Jewish. They have never seen a Jewish prayer book. And as a consequence of this, they cannot understand what they are doing living in the Land of Israel, and in their first opportunity the will move overseas. The "modern" Jewish education this children were given, included a deep hatred for everything that has to do with the Jewish religion, including religious Jews.

So the real crime, and the true objective of the governing elite, was to deny a Jewish education to the Jewish children. This crime was performed not only on the stolen children, but also on other groups of children. After the holocaust many Jewish orphan children arrived in Israel, several of the older children already came with a strong Jewish education. They were sent to secular kibbutzim and institutions to teach them about being Jewish in Israel.


Ahavat Israel - Missing Jewish Children

I believe in separation of public schools and religion, so I have no problem with this, its the way they went about it. If children are to be raised secular, they should still be taught morality and ethics, and no, in America most of us do not feel its ok to see prostitutes, drug dealer or criminals walking the streets, just to clarify.

I have posted about the views of the orthodox community in Israel, and how they mainly do not work, too hard studying the torah, well its the same in NY,1/2 do not work, its food stamp and a welfare community, so I understand.

They tolerate them, because, they are the excuse for making Jerusalem the capital of Israel. Israel is and wants to be a secular state, but without saying they want to be a jewish state, they really can't use the Torah for their divine right to it , can they.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Hamas is no more a terrorist organization that the IDF is, the IDF is worst, since they have bulldozers, rifles , tanks , and planes that drop bombs. If those Palestinians learned any

There you have it, ladies and gentlemen. And from someone who uses world peace as an avatar. In another thread the freak justifies Hamas targeting children for murder because they are Jews.
Total freakzoid.

 

[Penelope]

Hamas is no more a terrorist organization that the IDF is, the IDF is worst, since they have bulldozers, rifles , tanks , and planes that drop bombs. If those Palestinians learned any

There you have it, ladies and gentlemen. And from someone who uses world peace as an avatar. In another thread the freak justifies Hamas targeting children for murder because they are Jews.
Total freakzoid.

Yes and Israel uses them freely. What would those hebews do if they didn't fight. What would they do when all the Palestinians are gone, then they would eye Syria and Lebanon. It will never end with the Hebrews. They fight, they do not want peace anymore than. Israel is not in a civil war, they are just trying to rid what they think is their land of people they don't want living there. It will never end with them.

What then would they cry and moan about , its always something. That is their history.

 

[flacaltenn]

All of us know Israel was to be set up as a secular country , not a religious Jewish one. If your control the culture you control everything.


The Canaanite movement (also known as the "Hebrews" or "Young Hebrews") in Israel was a very important cultural phenomenon. Their impact reached much beyond the two dozen registered members that it may ever have had, because most of its members were central intellectuals in Israeli society: poets, prose writers, sculptors, linguists, essayists, and commanders as well as rank and file fighters, typically in the two small military underground organizations, Etzel and Lekhi, but to a lesser extent also in the Palmakh. Historically, the movement was an offshoot of the radical right-wing revisionist movement headed by Jabotinsky, which in the 1930s formed an ideological and organizational alternative to the mainstream policy of practical Zionism ("another acre, another goat") in order to revise Zionism (hence: "revisionists") in a more military and politically anti-Arab way.

Two Brief Introductions to Hebrew Canaanism by Ron Kuzar

The real goal is to have all Hebrew speaking people and to get rid of the religious zealots. You could never have a all Jewish country with everyone speaking a different language could you?

When the Polish kids that had lost their parents ended up in Israel, they did everything they could to get the religion out of them.

I buy HotDogs made by Hebrew National.. Doesn't mean only Hebrews are allowed to consume them or I am funding some nefarious Zionist sect. Any movement can usurp historically defined symbols.. Jews for Jesus is a great example.

And you are STILL hanging on to this factoid -- even tho --- this "Hebrew movement" was a couple dozen drug adled leftists.. Yep -- it fits their mold. Secular to the poopdeck, primary concern about POWER and not principles, -- classic definition of leftists.

Judaism is NOT just a religion -- it's a people. If you were to choose to convert to Judaism (more difficult than it sounds) you would become a member of that heritage. The good -- the bad ---- ALL of it...

 

[Lipush]

Yes Jroc, the joke is on everyone
I've seen more Exodus movies that I can count. I am talking history here not some books wrote centuries ago, but who knows who. The Exodus never happened as told in the bible.

The 1960 movie was based on a book by the same name that was published in 1958 based on the story of the 1947 Immigration Ship named Exodus and not the Biblical Story in the Tanakh...

Exodus (Uris novel) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I was joking. I guess I thought of that movie because the hero's name was Ben Canaan or something like that. I don't take Penelope's posts seriously because she's choking with anti-Jewish hatred.

Who are jews, the ones who are orthodox, as I'm sure if you read the links you will know Zionism has nothing to do with any religion, as a matter of fact they did not want orthodox jews moving to Israel.

Suddenly your no longer the terrorists anymore but you sure started out that way in Palestine. Never was Palestine to be a two state area, it was begun under the false pretense that Zionist accepted that. Hebrew was a holy language although resurrected as a secular language. Hebrew is the name of your religion, and it does not include any orthodox religion, but once again , we have the Hebrews fighting amongst themselves as usual. There was never peace in the "holy land". Invaders do not bring peace.

Where do you get that nonsense of Zionists don't wanting Orthodox Jews to be israelis?

What a lunacy.

Missing Children

The issue of the missing Yemenite and other Jewish children is well-known in Israel, but surprisingly, it is virtually unknown abroad. In the years 1948-1954 thousands of Jewish children were taken, sometimes forcibly, from their biological parents while in hospitals or child-care homes.

(snip)

Without any doubt, stealing children from their parents is a horrendous crime. But, how is it possible that the goverment conducted such activities? The government policy was to create a modern Jew, a new Israeli. To leave the Jewish isolation behind, and start living like all the other nations in the world, to build a normal country. High ranking politicians would say: "The day we see Jewish criminals and Jewish prostitutes walking the streets of Israel, then we will have succeeded in our goal of creating a normal state, just like the rest of the nations in the world." (I have no idea what nations they are talking about) And regretfully, they succeeded in this issue.

The main reason Jewish children were stolen from their parents, was to provide them with a non-Torah education. The ruling class saw Torah Law and Jewish traditions as primitive, and tried to erase this from the Jews. They created a large number of Jews who have no idea of what it means to be Jewish. They have never seen a Jewish prayer book. And as a consequence of this, they cannot understand what they are doing living in the Land of Israel, and in their first opportunity the will move overseas. The "modern" Jewish education this children were given, included a deep hatred for everything that has to do with the Jewish religion, including religious Jews.

So the real crime, and the true objective of the governing elite, was to deny a Jewish education to the Jewish children. This crime was performed not only on the stolen children, but also on other groups of children. After the holocaust many Jewish orphan children arrived in Israel, several of the older children already came with a strong Jewish education. They were sent to secular kibbutzim and institutions to teach them about being Jewish in Israel.


Ahavat Israel - Missing Jewish Children

I believe in separation of public schools and religion, so I have no problem with this, its the way they went about it. If children are to be raised secular, they should still be taught morality and ethics, and no, in America most of us do not feel its ok to see prostitutes, drug dealer or criminals walking the streets, just to clarify.

I have posted about the views of the orthodox community in Israel, and how they mainly do not work, too hard studying the torah, well its the same in NY,1/2 do not work, its food stamp and a welfare community, so I understand.

They tolerate them, because, they are the excuse for making Jerusalem the capital of Israel. Israel is and wants to be a secular state, but without saying they want to be a jewish state, they really can't use the Torah for their divine right to it , can they.

Out of all the children suspected to be given to others (and not actually died like some told their parents), the number of children who were in fact really taken was 4.

You're really trying to make an example out of this?

 

[Shusha]

Judaism is NOT just a religion -- it's a people. If you were to choose to convert to Judaism (more difficult than it sounds) you would become a member of that heritage. The good -- the bad ---- ALL of it...

Thank you!

And when you convert, you don't just become a member of another religion -- you become the target of all the hate and antisemitism that goes along with it.

 

[montelatici]

Hamas is no more a terrorist organization that the IDF is, the IDF is worst, since they have bulldozers, rifles , tanks , and planes that drop bombs. If those Palestinians learned any

There you have it, ladies and gentlemen. And from someone who uses world peace as an avatar. In another thread the freak justifies Hamas targeting children for murder because they are Jews.
Total freakzoid.

The IDF targets Palestinian children because they are non-Jews. What's the difference?


"At least 15 people, mostly children and women, died when the school in Jabaliya refugee camp was hit by five shells during a night of relentless bombardment across Gaza. More than 100 people were injured.

Ban Ki-moon, the UN secretary general, said the attack was "outrageous and unjustifiable" and demanded "accountability and justice". The UN said its officials had repeatedly given details of the school and its refugee population to Israel."

'The world stands disgraced' - Israeli shelling of school kills at least 15

 

[Penelope]

Its still hard to believe what Israel did to Gaza in 2014, we must "never forget".

 

[Weatherman2020]

Hamas is no more a terrorist organization that the IDF is, the IDF is worst, since they have bulldozers, rifles , tanks , and planes that drop bombs. If those Palestinians learned any

There you have it, ladies and gentlemen. And from someone who uses world peace as an avatar. In another thread the freak justifies Hamas targeting children for murder because they are Jews.
Total freakzoid.

The IDF targets Palestinian children because they are non-Jews. What's the difference?


"At least 15 people, mostly children and women, died when the school in Jabaliya refugee camp was hit by five shells during a night of relentless bombardment across Gaza. More than 100 people were injured.

Ban Ki-moon, the UN secretary general, said the attack was "outrageous and unjustifiable" and demanded "accountability and justice". The UN said its officials had repeatedly given details of the school and its refugee population to Israel."

'The world stands disgraced' - Israeli shelling of school kills at least 15

And 15,000 French civilians died during the Normandy invasion.
So what's your point?
Oh yeah, it's OK to fire missiles into cities like Hitler did if your victims are Jews.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Its still hard to believe what Israel did to Gaza in 2014, we must "never forget".

I'm sure you won't, warmonger lover of human rights violations.

 

[Phoenall]

Rather than discussing films and novels (including Joan Peters' tripe), it may be more instructive to read scholarly academic work by Illan Pappé, Avi Shlaim, Ahron Bregman, Schlomo Sand etc.

You mean islamonazi propaganda

It's odd that you would bring up such a self-incriminating concept like "propaganda", since you only seem only to be able to express yourself in slogans.

It is no different to your use of proven proapagandists of the islamonazi terrorists as if they are somehow the only valid source of information. How many have been proven to be falsifying the evidence like all good neo Marxists do when there is nothing to support their claims.

Try leaving out right wing, left wing and Islamic sources for your evidence and what you have left is the truth

 

[Phoenall]

For those who are not interested in reading scholarly articles and books, here is a lecture delivered by Israeli Professor Shlomo Sand

This will really upset our resident Zionists. LOL

I have always made this historical fact clear, but our resident Zionists will contradict the founders of Zionism.

Not really as he shows his true colours when he tries and puts his twist on the matter regarding Zionists and Judaeans. It is the same old same old neo Marxist rubbish that started back in the very early 1900's to justify the mass murders in Russia.

 

[Phoenall]

For those who are not interested in reading scholarly articles and books, here is a lecture delivered by Israeli Professor Shlomo Sand

This will really upset our resident Zionists. LOL

Oh, please. Shlomo Sand and his soundly debunked Khazar theory? "Scholarly articles", my ass.

Well why do you think so many jews are from Ukraine and Russia? Jews went all over proselytizing , all over. Most are Ukrainian, Russian and Polish, German, American, British, Spanish, religions do not have a homeland, look at Christianity its all over the globe. Yes most do not practice Judaism, and are secular, but if they learn Hebrew, they can be a Hebrew.

So if I learn Hebrew my race will change, you really need to get out more and stop listening to the imam read the crap on a friday