Who are the Israelis?

[rylah]

Gaza has never been under the total control of Jews or any of the preceding empires encompassing it. In the 13th century BC, the Philistines (Cretans) annihilated the Avite's of Gaza and took it over. Even though Gaza was in the promised land, it was under outside control iow, never fully under control of the Jews. Assyrians, Egyptians, Babylonians, Persians and later still by Alexander the Great who came and went and also left Gaza to be internally controlled and Pompey evicted all Jewry leaving the others to continue the lands control while dealing Israel hard time.

There are two prevailing thoughts and I go with Sharon who said that "We do NOT want Gaza. At most, we want to control the borders and stop their ability to attack us."

The others say that a pattern that has existed for thousands of years will continue; a sequence of Jewish exile from Gaza, followed by inevitable restoration as is happening with the return of the Bene Menashe to the Golan.

Palestinians are Syrian Arabs and belong to Arabia/Syria/Joran/Egypt but surely not Israel. They are allowed citizenship.

It is not a right of Arabs to have citizenship in Israel, it is bestowed upon them and for some reason, they do not want to leave... even with land swaps.

I don't know of any Israeli who gave up land and ended up well.
The govt didn't even plan to capture Jerusalem, it was literally forced upon it - twice.
The people who repopulated the area didn't plan anything, it was all motivated by strong faith and improvised, as is most natural to Israeli mentality. The first village Sharon approved was a response to a letter from a simple Jew who just decided to try.

And I know a lot of people who do want to repopulate Gaza with no hesitation, though I think at this stage Judea is of highest priority.

 

[rylah]

'Middle East's most dangerous man' - Meir Ettinger breaking the silence.

Meir Ettinger is the number one target of the Shin Bet.
Their intelligence reports relate to him the Revolt Plan, the same plan that detail the way to toppling the government, and instead establish the Kingdom of Israel. The Shin Bet is convinced that Ettinger is the living spirit behind the Price Tag activities, but the have never managed to prove that.

He’s merely 26, and already sat in jail for 10 months in administrative detention. He was arrested immediately after the murder in Duma and was released under restrictions, but without being convicted of anything.

With his family tree it’s almost not surprising that the eyes of Shin Bet follow him non-stop. Ettinger is the grandson of Rabbi Kahana HY”D, the man who stood at the head of the Kach movement, and was outlawed for racism. His relation to his grandfather is complicated, even if ideologically close, Ettinger the grandson won’t ever be found , as it seems, acting on the side of the government and run for Knesset.

Until today in the relationship between Ettinger and Shin Bet, ony the side of the state was heard. Ettinger on his side, in spite that the Hilltop Youth looks forward to him, preferred to keep silent.

He chose to give them lessons and lectures and evaded all contact with the media. Now he speaks, for the first time on camera. Not apologizing, but asking to create, according to him, an edge of a bridge above the wide open gap between the parts of the nation. Meir Ettinger talks about the investigation room of Shin Bet, about the Price Tag activities, about non-violent civil rebellion, and even about the surprising meeting with the left-wing. Here’s “Breaking the Silence”, a documentary of Avraham Shapira.



This is the introduction part, the documentary is very interesting and relevant, hasn't been translated yet, showing a perspective that was never introduced before. I'll keep translating the interview in following posts.

 

[rylah]

'Middle East's most dangerous man' - Meir Ettinger breaks the silence.

Meir Ettinger is the number one target of the Shin Bet.
Their intelligence reports relate to him the Revolt Plan, the same plan that detail the way to toppling the government, and instead establish the Kingdom of Israel. The Shin Bet is convinced that Ettinger is the living spirit behind the Price Tag activities, but the have never managed to prove that.

He’s merely 26, and already sat in jail for 10 months in administrative detention. He was arrested immediately after the murder in Duma and was released under restrictions, but without being convicted of anything.

With his family tree it’s almost not surprising that the eyes of Shin Bet follow him non-stop. Ettinger is the grandson of Rabbi Kahana HY”D, the man who stood at the head of the Kach movement, and was outlawed for racism. His relation to his grandfather is complicated, even if ideologically close, Ettinger the grandson won’t ever be found , as it seems, acting on the side of the government and run for Knesset.

Until today in the relationship between Ettinger and Shin Bet, ony the side of the state was heard. Ettinger on his side, in spite that the Hilltop Youth looks forward to him, preferred to keep silent.

He chose to give them lessons and lectures and evaded all contact with the media. Now he speaks, for the first time on camera. Not apologizing, but asking to create, according to him, an edge of a bridge above the wide open gap between the parts of the nation. Meir Ettinger talks about the investigation room of Shin Bet, about the Price Tag activities, about non-violent civil rebellion, and even about the surprising meeting with the left-wing. Here’s “Breaking the Silence”, a documentary of Avraham Shapira.



This is the introduction,the movie hasn't been translated yet, but very interesting showing perspective that was never introduced before. I'll keep translating the interview in following posts.

Avraham Shapira: “Let’s talk about this interview”.
Meir Ettinger: “ Stressing”
A.S: “Does the movie stress You?”
M.E.: “Seriously stressful”
A.S: “Why?”
M.E: "First of all the biggest fear is that I can’t speak well, don’t know how to explain myself and speak quietly and slow. I’m much better at writing, and afraid that I won’t succeed to say what I want to say.
That I won’t be able to bridge the gaps between the languages."

2:33 6:34 -View of Ettinger’s first hilltop outpost and footage from news about his hearings.

News cast: “Ettinger considered main ideolog of the Hilltop Youth, the mind that planned and fascilitated in the recent years violent activity against Palestinians. Incited a group of Jewish youth to a number of hate crimes. The court adopted police and Shin Bet recomendations this morning , to keep Meir Ettinger arrested. Part of the time in jail was held in solitary, twice did hunger strikes. Ettinger is the one who formulated the “Rebelion Plan”, toppling of the government in Israel, imposition of Torah Laws and establishment of the 3rd Temple.
The watchful eye of Shin Bet now will be watching even more.”

M.E.: “I came here 7 years ago, to an outpost of the Youth For Eretz Israel. For me this was the first meeting with the hilltop youth. I asked friend where there was some outpost, and they told me go to Svut ‘Ami, there’s an outpost. I haven’t imagined what I saw here.

I had many questions to which I didn’t find answers in the education in which I was growing, in the Yeshiva’s in which I studied. I wanted to look for something outside of the Beit Midrash, like more soul, spirit and their connection to practical life.

I came here , here under the carob tree was bucket of carobs, a Poligal shet and three folks sitting. I ask them ‘what? where is the outpost?’ . I Imagined some flock, houses, something that…So they tell me ‘ here’, tell me, ‘ here, 3 hours ago before I came, there was an evacuation, the army came with 3 tracks, took all the equipment that was. I asked them ‘ So what now?’, they told me ‘ we stay’. And that was like…I was in shock.

We went to sleep around 3, it was with a lot of innocence, like without any political calculations, without…people here didn't even get what was all the fuss. It was like, the Land of Israel is ours, and I was shocked by that, it simply… I simply fell in love with…with this simplicity…like…

I always pictured hills as something fun, cool, lots of doing and creative brotherhood, and agriculture, and here there was simply nothing, only loyalty to land, and it was pure ideology, I was sold.
You get addicted to the love of this place, like on weird levels. Can only imagine how it is to carry the wood blocks uphill. They would come every several weeks and completely empty the hill. There were periods when 3-4 times a day police parks there downhill, came woke us in the night, on the Polligal sheet – ‘breaking the law’ and You’re arrested for one night and… open to this world.

News 11: Kahana talked about forced transfer, today the question begs, ‘how much have the ideas of Kahana influenced his grandson, Meir Ettinger?’
Rabbi Meir Kahana: “We’re going to holy war. Democracy? I’m not a patsy”

M.E.: “It’s difficult for me with Rabbi Kahana, mainly because first of all he’s grandpa, family, but it took me a lot of years to get to know him. Maybe I started to connect to him only after the media connected between us. It was hard for me for long years with Rabbi Kahana, because of the image that was made of him by the media. Also an image of violent extremist, and also an image of hollow. I tried to distance from it. Spiritual sources, I went to look in further places. Today I feel that the teaching of Rabbi Kahana is deep,and sometimes simplicity is the genius. The single common thing to everything he did, is that he always tried. This is his central message to the following generations. And I will say it in the most provocative manner there is – Rabbi Kahana failed in what he did."

A.S.: “And You’re succeeding?”
M.E.:” No, but I still have a chance to succeed.
It’s always in the background, grandfather is not something You can deny, put I came to hilltops from a totally different direction.

We've built half level hut, and above it a permanent pergola. We could buld 5 times a day, the border police would come up, destroy the hut, break the wood panels, we would come and build. That’s what was here on the hill, we would sit and study Torah. When they destroy we rebuild. You’re always illegal, for a whole year that You live here. There’s an observation post in Yishai, and when the post sees whe’ve raised the…it’s funny sometimes it was like 4 board of 5*10, with some Ute, as the post sees it, immediately border police jumps and pursuit starts. They’d come up on Friday, find some shampoo bottle, pour it on all the food prepared for Shabat, on the mattresses etc. This was our experience, that there’re people here with obsession. As if all the psychological complexes of this govt was poured on us, as 5 teens living here.

Reportes were coming here all day long, we wouldn't understand why they want to take footage of us, what did they want to capture, what are they looking for here? They could talk about us in the media a lot, and it didn't interest us, we were busy rebuilding the hut again. This question always accompanied us, why is it so interesting what we do here? Why do they send border police jeeps 5 times a day? What do they want? What are they afraid of? That one day here will be a house?

One day we’re sitting, I just tied Tzitzit, prepared a new one, a friend was studying… ‘Two Mikra one Targum’, we did thing least threatening to the middle east;
When someone stood up like that, looks down and says ‘there’s a jeep’, and we get into the usual procedure. Move more than half a km away, under the 3rd carob tree where they never reach and difficult to spot.Hours pass ,continue our business with the study and I proceed with tzitzit knots., when we hear crazy roars, I was sure terrorists arrived, we jump and see a group of storming undercover agents in. You don’t know what to think, You’re sure someone is going beat You into the ground. You’re only afraid to get caught, sure they’ll kill You. That moment You say to Yourself ‘ I’m like their enemy’, and it drives You crazy, why, what happened?

(2:00 - 11:00)

 

[rylah]

"To immediately stop Trump's honey trap"
Sovereignty Movement reacts with concern to the new publications revealed last night from the deal of the century. "The Land of Israel is above negotiations"

After a day was published in the news 12 More details from President Trump's centennial, many elements responded happily to the clause according to which civil legislation would be applied to the Jewish settlements in Judea and Samaria. On the other hand, the settlement movement and the women's movement in Green reacted hesitantly to the reports, expressing concern that the agreement was a "honey trap" in which Israel could fall and approve the deal.

"The application of Israeli civil law to the settlements in Judea and Samaria is nothing more than a forced and dangerous attempt at a compromise that will allow the establishment of a Palestinian entity on the rest of the territory," the movement said. The movement's leaders, Yehudit Katzover and Nadia Matar, recall that the movement recently warned of the implications of such a scenario. "The Land of Israel is not ours, and we must apply the full sovereignty of the State of Israel to it," the two say.

"Beyond the historical right that can not be compromised, the establishment of a Palestinian political entity on the territory of Judea and Samaria will be a much more serious danger than the one awaiting us from the Gaza Strip," he said. And another area for terrorist gangs who swore to establish a state on the ruins of Israel. "

"The Arab propaganda capabilities are proven, but they can not turn the Arab side to the right side, the entire Land of Israel belongs to the people of Israel, even if it is alone," Katzover and Metar say. "The Trump program can be accepted only if it is already defined as the first stage Full Israeli sovereignty over all of Judea and Samaria. "

The Nahala movement said in response to the publication regarding application Israeli law on the Jewish villages as part of the deal of the century: "We call on the prime minister and all cabinet ministers to immediately announce a complete rejection of the"Deal of the Century" ,a plan of the division of the land and the transfer of the territories of the Land of Israel to foreigners. Any plot to wrap the Israeli withdrawal from the territories of Israel by sovereignty over the territories of the existing villages will not succeed with a healthy and living Israel, and will not allow the partition of the Land of Israel".

Hakol Hayehudi

 

[flacaltenn]

This is a great leverage, any move towards improving the economic and political status of Judea (currently this is the area of investigation), is a function of wider regional economic development, and therefore direct involvement and additional guarantee.

Imagine the future for those Palestinian cities by being the major distribution centers on that "trade route"... The packing, warehousing, transport and service opportunities for the goods that would travel that route..

I've realized that roads from the Dead Sea (Jordan River Valley) are not the greatest heavy truck routes up to most of the Pali cities -- But there's an opportunity FOR THEM to make improvements.. LOL....

You made me aware awhile back of very parallel event about the TRAIN route that is being negotiated to link these same 3 countries. Same idea.

Can this idea be worked out if instead of Emirates, those 7 cities in Judea apply the status of full Israeli sovereignty, like Nazareth?

That's a whole unique strategic calculus that only Israel can contemplate. I don't think enough of those current residents in the 6 or 7 cities would OPT to be under Israeli law... It's a situation that would FORCE confrontation and relocations.. But in my paper, I propose that Jordan and Egypt RELOCATE those Palis stewing in THEIR poorly serviced refugee camps to locations ADJACENT to the "trade highway".. Land swaps essentially within their borders -- so you close those ignored awful camps.. Perhaps THEN -- the residents of those cities have the choice to be under Jordanian or Egyptian law and within an hour drive from the Israeli Palestinians.

Palestinians can thrive and govern on the City State scale. They prefer that to reaching any kind of national (federal) consensus on who rules all of them.. And if Israel decides to be a major partner on this "trade route" those ties of "fairer commerce" with the Palestinians would build trust and integration between the two parties.

Commerce for the Palis is very difficult under the current system.. And isolating those cities would never work..

 

[P F Tinmore]

This is a great leverage, any move towards improving the economic and political status of Judea (currently this is the area of investigation), is a function of wider regional economic development, and therefore direct involvement and additional guarantee.

Imagine the future for those Palestinian cities by being the major distribution centers on that "trade route"... The packing, warehousing, transport and service opportunities for the goods that would travel that route..

I've realized that roads from the Dead Sea (Jordan River Valley) are not the greatest heavy truck routes up to most of the Pali cities -- But there's an opportunity FOR THEM to make improvements.. LOL....

You made me aware awhile back of very parallel event about the TRAIN route that is being negotiated to link these same 3 countries. Same idea.

Can this idea be worked out if instead of Emirates, those 7 cities in Judea apply the status of full Israeli sovereignty, like Nazareth?

That's a whole unique strategic calculus that only Israel can contemplate. I don't think enough of those current residents in the 6 or 7 cities would OPT to be under Israeli law... It's a situation that would FORCE confrontation and relocations.. But in my paper, I propose that Jordan and Egypt RELOCATE those Palis stewing in THEIR poorly serviced refugee camps to locations ADJACENT to the "trade highway".. Land swaps essentially within their borders -- so you close those ignored awful camps.. Perhaps THEN -- the residents of those cities have the choice to be under Jordanian or Egyptian law and within an hour drive from the Israeli Palestinians.

Palestinians can thrive and govern on the City State scale. They prefer that to reaching any kind of national (federal) consensus on who rules all of them.. And if Israel decides to be a major partner on this "trade route" those ties of "fairer commerce" with the Palestinians would build trust and integration between the two parties.

Commerce for the Palis is very difficult under the current system.. And isolating those cities would never work..

Can't work.

 

[rylah]

This is a great leverage, any move towards improving the economic and political status of Judea (currently this is the area of investigation), is a function of wider regional economic development, and therefore direct involvement and additional guarantee.

Imagine the future for those Palestinian cities by being the major distribution centers on that "trade route"... The packing, warehousing, transport and service opportunities for the goods that would travel that route..

I've realized that roads from the Dead Sea (Jordan River Valley) are not the greatest heavy truck routes up to most of the Pali cities -- But there's an opportunity FOR THEM to make improvements.. LOL....

You made me aware awhile back of very parallel event about the TRAIN route that is being negotiated to link these same 3 countries. Same idea.

Can this idea be worked out if instead of Emirates, those 7 cities in Judea apply the status of full Israeli sovereignty, like Nazareth?

That's a whole unique strategic calculus that only Israel can contemplate. I don't think enough of those current residents in the 6 or 7 cities would OPT to be under Israeli law... It's a situation that would FORCE confrontation and relocations.. But in my paper, I propose that Jordan and Egypt RELOCATE those Palis stewing in THEIR poorly serviced refugee camps to locations ADJACENT to the "trade highway".. Land swaps essentially within their borders -- so you close those ignored awful camps.. Perhaps THEN -- the residents of those cities have the choice to be under Jordanian or Egyptian law and within an hour drive from the Israeli Palestinians.

Palestinians can thrive and govern on the City State scale. They prefer that to reaching any kind of national (federal) consensus on who rules all of them.. And if Israel decides to be a major partner on this "trade route" those ties of "fairer commerce" with the Palestinians would build trust and integration between the two parties.

Commerce for the Palis is very difficult under the current system.. And isolating those cities would never work..

Can't work.

Isn't that exactly what Americans said before Israel got independent?

But hey I can understand - after decades of welfare fraud, it's harsh to suggest the soft Jihadi brides actually get a real job and take responsibility over their lives. Sure the 72 virgins sound much more attractive.

 

[rylah]

This is a great leverage, any move towards improving the economic and political status of Judea (currently this is the area of investigation), is a function of wider regional economic development, and therefore direct involvement and additional guarantee.

Imagine the future for those Palestinian cities by being the major distribution centers on that "trade route"... The packing, warehousing, transport and service opportunities for the goods that would travel that route..

I've realized that roads from the Dead Sea (Jordan River Valley) are not the greatest heavy truck routes up to most of the Pali cities -- But there's an opportunity FOR THEM to make improvements.. LOL....

You made me aware awhile back of very parallel event about the TRAIN route that is being negotiated to link these same 3 countries. Same idea.

Can this idea be worked out if instead of Emirates, those 7 cities in Judea apply the status of full Israeli sovereignty, like Nazareth?

That's a whole unique strategic calculus that only Israel can contemplate. I don't think enough of those current residents in the 6 or 7 cities would OPT to be under Israeli law... It's a situation that would FORCE confrontation and relocations.. But in my paper, I propose that Jordan and Egypt RELOCATE those Palis stewing in THEIR poorly serviced refugee camps to locations ADJACENT to the "trade highway".. Land swaps essentially within their borders -- so you close those ignored awful camps.. Perhaps THEN -- the residents of those cities have the choice to be under Jordanian or Egyptian law and within an hour drive from the Israeli Palestinians.

Palestinians can thrive and govern on the City State scale. They prefer that to reaching any kind of national (federal) consensus on who rules all of them.. And if Israel decides to be a major partner on this "trade route" those ties of "fairer commerce" with the Palestinians would build trust and integration between the two parties.

Commerce for the Palis is very difficult under the current system.. And isolating those cities would never work..

Can You imagine I actually hold in my head a picture of me buying fruits in Hebron market, and having a laugh in Arabic with the seller? I believe most Israelis do, most of our lives we did until Oslo. Of course I generalize, but I do believe most of us, even if agitated, wish them well and prefer to wipe Kosher Hummus plates in rich and beautiful Gaza than to fighting them.

Regarding the roads around the Dead Sea, I see only one concern - security. Certainly it would be a good start if the tender for road construction was given to a local Arab company.
Furthermore, I don't know if layering the roads on top of mountains helps security, which I my main concern for guaranteeing the trade route, but I'd like to hear what cause You to reexamine the location of the road in that specific part.

Regarding the new train track to Jordan, it is already built and functioning,
goes through the Hulah valley in the north. And was finished long before announced news, think it was a media response measurement.

As for applying full Israeli sovereignty over the whole of Judea, I agree it will naturally result in confrontations, and so is taken in account, and specific policy (and legal procedure) is already discussed in line with the various propositions. I think You can put Your money on refusal and confrontation, as a result of any development including the PA-Hamas subjects. For the simple reason that such practical solutions endanger the status and need for both to continue exist in current form - the same reason they'll never unite into a single functioning govt.

As for relocation and closing the refugee camps, I think it has moved beyond that point.
There're no camps really, those are full blown cities with large population with their own local economy.
I think the part of Trump's plan, for development of these cities and closing of UNRWA centers that make money of keeping them in poverty, is more practical and viable long run.

To sum it up, seeing the default opposition to anything on the Pal side,
I'm trying to figure out how the 7 Emirates economic infrastructure, can be combined and work under full Israeli sovereignty.

Do You think these cities can keep their special economic status and privilege,
as regional hubs under such circumstance?

 

[rylah]

Netanyahu: I did not convince Liberman to prevent elections

Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu said, Monday evening, that he did not convince Chairman Avigdor Liberman of the Yisrael Beytenu Party to compromise on legislation regulating haredi induction into the Israel Defense Forces and thereby avoid the need for new Knesset elections.

Speaking outside his Knesset office, Netanyahu noted that there are 48 hours remaining until the latest deadline for forming a new government coalition.

Source: Arutz Sheva

 

[jillian]

We have a Who are the Palestinians thread, so just to be fair...

Golda Meir

Do t trouble your little Jew hating thread about it

 

[rylah]

Senior official: We won't allow religious Zionism to be trampled
Senior Right Parties Union source to PM: Even if agreement reached with Liberman, without Justice portfolio, party won't enter government.

A senior official in the Right Parties Union responded to the Likud announcement that all the faction leaders agree on establishing the coalition and all are waiting only for Yisrael Beyteinu Chairman Avigdor Liberman. The source said he feared the Prime Minister would reach an agreement with Liberman at the last minute and then try to prevent the party from receiving the Justice portfolio, trying to push the right-wing parties into a corner as a way to prevent the establishment of a right-wing government.

"Without the Justice portfolio, there will be no entry into the coalition. There are other important items that we have no intention of being flexible or giving up," the source said. He declares that "any attempt by the Prime Minister to reach a solution with Avigdor Liberman at the expense of the knitted kippas to accuse us of toppling a right-wing coalition won't work."

The senior official stressed that so far no agreement has been reached with the Prime Minister according to which the party will receive the Justice and Education portfolios. "Without meeting this basic demand, an agreement with Liberman will not make us part of the government," he concluded.

Prime Minister Netanyahu announced that he will deliver a statement at the Knesset on Monday about the difficulties in the coalition negotiations. The Knesset plenum approved in preliminary reading the bill to dissolve the Knesset. 65 MKs supported the proposal, 43 opposed.

Source: Arutz Sheva

 

[rylah]

Discussing Coalition and Re-Elections

Coalition talks break down over Haredi enlistment bill, to discuss, are Rabbi Dov Lipman, former MK for Yesh Atid Rabbi Dov Halbertal, former Head of the Office of the Chief Rabbi of Israel, Naftali Ben Simon, Political Analyst and Likud party member and Yossi Yonah, former MK from the Labor Party.

 

[rylah]

Poll: Right-wing bloc would win again if new elections held
New poll shows right-wing - religious bloc would gain seats if second election held this year, with Likud leading Blue and White.

Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu would be reelected – again – if Knesset elections were held this year for a second time, a new poll shows.

With coalition talks stalled due to a dispute between haredi lawmakers and Yisrael Beytenu over the future of the draft deferment program for yeshiva students, the Likud is pushing to dissolve the 21st Knesset less than two months after it was elected.

The Knesset is expected to hold the initial vote on a measure to dissolve the Knesset Monday, with a final vote slated for Wednesday – the deadline for Netanyahu to form a new government.

According to a new poll conducted by Panels Politics on behalf of Maariv, Netanyahu would benefit from new elections, which would increase the right-wing - haredi bloc’s margin in the Knesset from 65 seats to 68, while the left-wing – Arab bloc would fall from 55 to 52 mandates.

The Likud itself would retain the 35 seats it won in April, while the center-left Blue and White party would fall from 35 to 34 seats.

The haredi factions Shas and United Torah Judaism would retain their eight seats each, while the Union of Right-Wing Parties would rise from five seats to six. Yisrael Beytenu would also rise from five seats to six.

The New Right party of Naftali Bennett and Ayelet Shaked would pass the electoral threshold this time around, winning five seats, while the Kulanu faction of Finance Minister Moshe Kahlon would not.

With 68 mandates for the right-wing – haredi bloc, Netanyahu would no longer be dependent on Yisrael Beytenu to form a majority coalition of 61 MKs.

Full article: Arutz Sheva

 

[flacaltenn]

Can You imagine I actually hold in my head a picture of me buying fruits in Hebron market, and having a laugh in Arabic with the seller? I believe most Israelis do, most of our lives we did until Oslo. Of course I generalize, but I do believe most of us, even if agitated, wish them well and prefer to wipe Kosher Hummus plates in rich and beautiful Gaza than to fighting them.

That's a wonderful vision.. So are motels, restaurants, truck stops serving the "trade route"... And huge warehousing and distribution opportunities in Pali cities for sorting goods from Egypt, Jordan and beyond.

Regarding the roads around the Dead Sea, I see only one concern - security. Certainly it would be a good start if the tender for road construction was given to a local Arab company.
Furthermore, I don't know if layering the roads on top of mountains helps security, which I my main concern for guaranteeing the trade route, but I'd like to hear what cause You to reexamine the location of the road in that specific part.

Anywhere the "trade highway" crosses Israeli territory, it is ELEVATED and has limited on/off ramps.. Trying to use a road like that in conflict is just useless. Because it can be taken out in minutes and leave the military forces/equipment stranded. And there would be "safety,maintenance, security stations" for car/truck breakdowns, traffic enforcement, emergencies. Once it reaches the Dead Sea -- it's no longer in Israel proper. Israel has all rights to control access of that road and use it for military purposes, but all the "connector" routes go into the West Bank from the East. And MOST of them end up in the Pali emirates anyways. Except for the Route to Jerusalem.. (dont have the numbers in front of me)... SO --- there's the connectivity between those emirates. On the EAST side of the West Bank with relatively free and unfettered movement between emirates. It's just that I've been on buses on some of those roads and KNOW they're not really suited to carrying a stream of heavy freight.
Would have to add a "third lane" or something for passing slow truck traffic...

It's guarded by customs/security checkpoints as it goes into Jordan and Egypt. Israel has control of those entries and exits much as they do now..

 

[flacaltenn]

As for relocation and closing the refugee camps, I think it has moved beyond that point.
There're no camps really, those are full blown cities with large population with their own local economy.
I think the part of Trump's plan, for development of these cities and closing of UNRWA centers that make money of keeping them in poverty, is more practical and viable long run.

I was really addressing the other 1/2 of the "Palestinian issue".. And that is the 300,000 refugees or so living in VERY bad conditions and NOT REALLY WANTED in Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt.. Not like UNWRA facilities in Gaza and West Bank. It would just make sense to move these refugees CLOSER to the trade highway and start building REAL cities and businesses there --- with a goal of ENDING some of worse camps in those countries.. That CONNECTS more of the Pali nation as a whole.. I think Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon would find a lot of intl. support building infrastructure adjacent to the trade route and housing for some of those refugees..

 

[P F Tinmore]

This is a great leverage, any move towards improving the economic and political status of Judea (currently this is the area of investigation), is a function of wider regional economic development, and therefore direct involvement and additional guarantee.

Imagine the future for those Palestinian cities by being the major distribution centers on that "trade route"... The packing, warehousing, transport and service opportunities for the goods that would travel that route..

I've realized that roads from the Dead Sea (Jordan River Valley) are not the greatest heavy truck routes up to most of the Pali cities -- But there's an opportunity FOR THEM to make improvements.. LOL....

You made me aware awhile back of very parallel event about the TRAIN route that is being negotiated to link these same 3 countries. Same idea.

Can this idea be worked out if instead of Emirates, those 7 cities in Judea apply the status of full Israeli sovereignty, like Nazareth?

That's a whole unique strategic calculus that only Israel can contemplate. I don't think enough of those current residents in the 6 or 7 cities would OPT to be under Israeli law... It's a situation that would FORCE confrontation and relocations.. But in my paper, I propose that Jordan and Egypt RELOCATE those Palis stewing in THEIR poorly serviced refugee camps to locations ADJACENT to the "trade highway".. Land swaps essentially within their borders -- so you close those ignored awful camps.. Perhaps THEN -- the residents of those cities have the choice to be under Jordanian or Egyptian law and within an hour drive from the Israeli Palestinians.

Palestinians can thrive and govern on the City State scale. They prefer that to reaching any kind of national (federal) consensus on who rules all of them.. And if Israel decides to be a major partner on this "trade route" those ties of "fairer commerce" with the Palestinians would build trust and integration between the two parties.

Commerce for the Palis is very difficult under the current system.. And isolating those cities would never work..

Can't work.

Isn't that exactly what Americans said before Israel got independent?

But hey I can understand - after decades of welfare fraud, it's harsh to suggest the soft Jihadi brides actually get a real job and take responsibility over their lives. Sure the 72 virgins sound much more attractive.

The Palestinians did not need welfare until a bunch of crooks came down from Europe and stole their stuff.

 

[fncceo]

The Palestinians did not need welfare until a bunch of crooks came down from Europe and stole their stuff.

The Brits?

 

[rylah]

This is a great leverage, any move towards improving the economic and political status of Judea (currently this is the area of investigation), is a function of wider regional economic development, and therefore direct involvement and additional guarantee.

Imagine the future for those Palestinian cities by being the major distribution centers on that "trade route"... The packing, warehousing, transport and service opportunities for the goods that would travel that route..

I've realized that roads from the Dead Sea (Jordan River Valley) are not the greatest heavy truck routes up to most of the Pali cities -- But there's an opportunity FOR THEM to make improvements.. LOL....

You made me aware awhile back of very parallel event about the TRAIN route that is being negotiated to link these same 3 countries. Same idea.

Can this idea be worked out if instead of Emirates, those 7 cities in Judea apply the status of full Israeli sovereignty, like Nazareth?

That's a whole unique strategic calculus that only Israel can contemplate. I don't think enough of those current residents in the 6 or 7 cities would OPT to be under Israeli law... It's a situation that would FORCE confrontation and relocations.. But in my paper, I propose that Jordan and Egypt RELOCATE those Palis stewing in THEIR poorly serviced refugee camps to locations ADJACENT to the "trade highway".. Land swaps essentially within their borders -- so you close those ignored awful camps.. Perhaps THEN -- the residents of those cities have the choice to be under Jordanian or Egyptian law and within an hour drive from the Israeli Palestinians.

Palestinians can thrive and govern on the City State scale. They prefer that to reaching any kind of national (federal) consensus on who rules all of them.. And if Israel decides to be a major partner on this "trade route" those ties of "fairer commerce" with the Palestinians would build trust and integration between the two parties.

Commerce for the Palis is very difficult under the current system.. And isolating those cities would never work..

Can't work.

Isn't that exactly what Americans said before Israel got independent?

But hey I can understand - after decades of welfare fraud, it's harsh to suggest the soft Jihadi brides actually get a real job and take responsibility over their lives. Sure the 72 virgins sound much more attractive.

The Palestinians did not need welfare until a bunch of crooks came down from Europe and stole their stuff.

Well I'm there was no such thing as 'welfare system'
in the feudal utopia that was the Islamic Caliphate.

But don't let me confuse You with facts.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The Palestinians did not need welfare until a bunch of crooks came down from Europe and stole their stuff.

The Brits?

Indeed, they were in on that scam.

 

[Hollie]

This is a great leverage, any move towards improving the economic and political status of Judea (currently this is the area of investigation), is a function of wider regional economic development, and therefore direct involvement and additional guarantee.

Imagine the future for those Palestinian cities by being the major distribution centers on that "trade route"... The packing, warehousing, transport and service opportunities for the goods that would travel that route..

I've realized that roads from the Dead Sea (Jordan River Valley) are not the greatest heavy truck routes up to most of the Pali cities -- But there's an opportunity FOR THEM to make improvements.. LOL....

You made me aware awhile back of very parallel event about the TRAIN route that is being negotiated to link these same 3 countries. Same idea.

Can this idea be worked out if instead of Emirates, those 7 cities in Judea apply the status of full Israeli sovereignty, like Nazareth?

That's a whole unique strategic calculus that only Israel can contemplate. I don't think enough of those current residents in the 6 or 7 cities would OPT to be under Israeli law... It's a situation that would FORCE confrontation and relocations.. But in my paper, I propose that Jordan and Egypt RELOCATE those Palis stewing in THEIR poorly serviced refugee camps to locations ADJACENT to the "trade highway".. Land swaps essentially within their borders -- so you close those ignored awful camps.. Perhaps THEN -- the residents of those cities have the choice to be under Jordanian or Egyptian law and within an hour drive from the Israeli Palestinians.

Palestinians can thrive and govern on the City State scale. They prefer that to reaching any kind of national (federal) consensus on who rules all of them.. And if Israel decides to be a major partner on this "trade route" those ties of "fairer commerce" with the Palestinians would build trust and integration between the two parties.

Commerce for the Palis is very difficult under the current system.. And isolating those cities would never work..

Can't work.

Isn't that exactly what Americans said before Israel got independent?

But hey I can understand - after decades of welfare fraud, it's harsh to suggest the soft Jihadi brides actually get a real job and take responsibility over their lives. Sure the 72 virgins sound much more attractive.

The Palestinians did not need welfare until a bunch of crooks came down from Europe and stole their stuff.

What stuff was stolen?

Indeed, this is another of the flaming tirades you dump into various threads but indeed, you’re never able to identify theft of any stuff.