Whitesplaning Racism

[IM2]

The following is based mainly on chapter two of “Racism Without Racists” (2010) by Eduardo Bonilla-Silva, a professor of sociology at Duke University. He has studied colour-blind racism, the more subtle sort of racism that took the place of Jim Crow racism among White Americans after the 1960s.

Eduardo Bonilla-Silva asked samples of White Americans, most of them born between 1940 and 1980, questions about race issues. He noticed that at least half of them used each of the following four frames:

1. Abstract liberalism – the key word here is “abstract”. Unlike Jim Crow racists, most whites now agree that all Americans, regardless of race, should have equal rights and equal opportunities. But it is just lip service. When asked about government policies that could bring about such equality, like affirmative action or busing, most whites will find one reason or another to oppose them and fail to offer any other solid measure. Freedom, democracy and equality are not things to be achieved but just empty words to dress up the way things are in America – and to dress up the racism of white people.
2. Minimization of racism – Most whites believe there is still discrimination against blacks, but it is not as bad as it used to be and it is no longer the main thing holding blacks back. Instead it is their culture:
3. Cultural racism – Unlike Jim Crow racists, most whites no longer believe that there is anything wrong with blacks biologically. Instead it is cultural: mostly bad families, bad values and a bad work ethic – black pathologies, blaming the victim. Some note that blacks use racism as an excuse and expect handouts.
4. Naturalization of racism – racist practices in society, like highly segregated schools and neighbourhoods and low rates of interracial marriage, are seen as “natural”, as a part of human nature – not as the outcome of white racism. That means it is no one’s fault, that there is little that can be done to change it.

The frames are mixed and matched as required by the argument at hand. The frames help to support each other. For example, minimizing racism makes an abstract liberalism seem more acceptable. The frames can be used in a straightforward way (“Blacks are lazy”) or more subtly (“It is hard being a single mother”).

Whites think they are a better judge of racism than blacks, particularly since blacks tend to imagine racism when it is not there.

The truth is blacks imagine little. Discrimination in hiring, housing and education has been well documented. The government should take forceful action to end it as it goes against the American value of equal opportunity for all regardless of race.

Yet almost no white person talks like that. Instead they use the frames to avoid saying anything like that. At best they will admit to discrimination but then discount its effects. Or they will say they believe in equality of opportunity but then find reasons to oppose any policy with the teeth to achieve it.

colour-blind racism: the four frames

 

[toobfreak]

This section of USMB is he ultimate example of whitesplaining.

6 Ways Well-Intentioned People Whitesplain Racism (And Why They Need to Stop)

ULTIMATE SIGN OF A HATEFUL FULL-ON RACIST AND BIGOT: a person whose every thread they post to or start has something to do with race and white-bashing, as if this was the only thing that consumed their life . . . .

 

[IM2]

This section of USMB is he ultimate example of whitesplaining.

6 Ways Well-Intentioned People Whitesplain Racism (And Why They Need to Stop)

ULTIMATE SIGN OF A HATEFUL FULL-ON RACIST AND BIGOT: a person whose every thread they post to or start has something to do with race and white-bashing, as if this was the only thing that consumed their life . . . .

Funny how you don't say this to whites here about their threads bashing blacks. And how you participate in the bashing. This is the race and racism section maggot.

 

[ATL]

The High Price of Stale Grievances - Quillette

If the grievance was stale your article would have merit. But an issue isn't sale because a portion of the white community says it is when we see continued instances of what the grievance is based on.

Written by a black dude....oooooooops

And that's supposed to matter? Since you posted the article try this:

Prove when racism ended and its effects were allayed. Show, with data and peer-reviewed studies supporting your argument, when the effects of the hundreds of years of anti-Black racism from chattel slavery through Old Jim Crow leveled off. Show when the wealth expropriated during that oppression was repaid to those it was expropriated from and through. And remember, after you’ve addressed the end of anti-Black racism you’ll still have to explain when anti-Latinx, anti-Asian, anti-Arab, and anti-Native racism came to an end as well.

Evidently the guy being black, and says what the white nationalist like to hear, it means he is supposed to portray what blacks are supposed to think like...however, when someone brings up Tim Wise, then the same white nationalists consider him a race traitor.......

'murica

 

[IM2]

The High Price of Stale Grievances - Quillette

If the grievance was stale your article would have merit. But an issue isn't sale because a portion of the white community says it is when we see continued instances of what the grievance is based on.

Written by a black dude....oooooooops

And that's supposed to matter? Since you posted the article try this:

Prove when racism ended and its effects were allayed. Show, with data and peer-reviewed studies supporting your argument, when the effects of the hundreds of years of anti-Black racism from chattel slavery through Old Jim Crow leveled off. Show when the wealth expropriated during that oppression was repaid to those it was expropriated from and through. And remember, after you’ve addressed the end of anti-Black racism you’ll still have to explain when anti-Latinx, anti-Asian, anti-Arab, and anti-Native racism came to an end as well.

Evidently the guy being black, and says what the white nationalist like to hear, it means he is supposed to portray what blacks are supposed to think like...however, when someone brings up Tim Wise, then the same white nationalists consider him a race traitor.......

'murica

So true.

 

[squeeze berry]

What I disagree with is this sense of ennui poor blacks glom onto, make that their cultural baggage and then accept it as inevitable. It's like some predetermination or their inevitable fate they cant avoid. They can't help being perennial victims. Because pseudo white privilege trumps free will and determination by poor blacks somehow...

Maybe you need to educate yourself as to what's really going on.

Race and Ethnicity

Unemployment and poverty rates in the U.S. have consistently been higher among people of color, while levels of income and wealth among these groups have trailed the general population. EPI’s Program on Race, Ethnicity, and the Economy works to advance policies that ensure racial and ethnic minorities participate fully in the American economy, and benefit equitably from gains in prosperity.

Well may you should, too. I wasn't bullshitting, I actually lived with flesh and blood people that are black . I don't need lectures from a creep like YOU. I see the hopelessness in the community, and that is purely because people have just given up. I don't know were to go with that, but blacks CAN and SHOULD try harder than this blame game. And YOU know it.

A google search will reveal successful Black communities which were destroyed by white folks. Rosewood and the Black Wall Street are the well known ones. It is also known that when blacks tried to move into white neighborhoods they were often burned out. Great effort has been made to keep blacks “in their place.”

There’s a story of Sisyphus, who was made to push a boulder up a hill. He would get it near the top only to have it fall back down. I heard someone say recently that he never got the rock over the top because he was doing it alone.

When black folks have pushed and pulled together they have always been met with resistance from those who, while they insist that blacks make it on their own, are the first to destroy whatever they manage to build together. I am certain there is some depression, exhaustion, hopelessness and despair in some communities. Perhaps we should get behind the rock ourselves and help them push.

let us know what rights blacks don't have.

I'll wait

 

[Correll]

why should any white person discuss race at all, in any capacity?

As a white person, my reason s to share insights I have gained from being inter racially married. White folks who are open to hearing other people's experiences might learn something from mine.

Look at any of IM2's posts. He doesn't want to discuss race, he wants to tell white people that he knows everything there is to know about blacks or whites. No matter what you say about your experiences, if you are white, you are racist. Nothing any white person says means anything to him, only his opinions and experiences count. If whites have a different opinion, experience or view of things, we are racist. We are told that whites today are responsible for reparations to blacks. Total bullshit.

And when I said that white people are done with being lectured to like that


he and Katestevie had a fit that I dared speak for White People.



As though anyone wants to be lectured like they are ill mannered children.

Ill mannered children? How about extreme right wing, racist nuts like you?

No, you don't speak for "normal" white people, nor do I speak for all black people.

That being said, feel free to repost anything that I have stated that sounds like a "lecture".....even to fringe loonies like you.

1. As nothing I have ever said, justifies you calling me a "racist nut", FUCK YOU, YOU RACE BAITING ASSHOLE.

2. And I do speak for the majority of white people. We are done with shit like that. DONE. It is only our moronic leadership, fearful of being called names by the vile media, that is still happy to play by your rules. There is a reason that Trump won the majority of the white vote.


3. Your post, right here, is a fine example of a lecture, though a small and mercifully short one.

 

[IM2]

The Baldwin-Kennedy meeting (May 24th 1963) was when Robert Kennedy met James Baldwin to talk at length about race in America.

Dramatis Personae:

• Robert Kennedy – president’s brother, Attorney General. He brought:
  • Burke Marshall – the government’s top civil rights person.
  • Also: Ed Guthman, press aide.
• James Baldwin – writer. He brought:
  • Lorraine Hansberry – playwright;
  • Jerome Smith – called “Gandhi Two” for his commitment to nonviolence. CORE, Freedom Rider;
  • Clarence B. Jones – Baldwin’s and Martin Luther King, Jr’s lawyer;
  • Kenneth Clark – psychologist.
  • Also:
    • Lena Horne,
    • Harry Belafonte,
    • Edwin C. Berry (Urban League),
    • June Shagaloff (NAACP),
    • Rip Torn (white actor from Texas),
    • Henry Morgenthau III (television producer),
    • Robert P. Mills (Baldwin’s literary agent, editor of Ellery Queen’s Mystery Magazine),
    • David Baldwin (brother),
    • Thais Aubrey (David’s friend),
    • Edward False (Baldwin’s secretary),
    • young SNCC activist.

Picture from the Birmingham protests, which ended just two weeks before this meeting

This was just after the Birmingham protests – fire hoses, dogs, Bull Connor, King’s “Letter from Birmingham Jail”, all of that.



Kennedy said Negroes were listening to dangerous extremists, like Malcolm X, which could cause real trouble.



Jerome Smith: “You don’t have no idea what trouble is. Because I’m close to the moment where I’m ready to take up a gun. … When I pull the trigger kiss it goodbye.”



Baldwin, to underscore Smith’s pacifism, asked him if he would fight for America in Cuba.



Smith: “Never, Never, Never!”



Kennedy: (shocked) “How can you say that?!”



Clark was shocked that Kennedy was shocked.



Smith “just put it like it was. He communicated the plain, basic suffering of being a Negro. … You could not encompass his anger, his fury, with a set of statistics.” (in Horne’s words.)



Kennedy was getting redder and redder. He reminded Smith of the seriousness of military obligations.



Smith said that being in the same room with Kennedy made him want to throw up.



Kennedy turned away from him.



Hansberry: “Look, if you can’t understand what this young man is saying then we are without any hope at all because you and your brother are representatives of the best that a white America can offer, and if you are insensitive to this, then there’s no alternative except our going in the streets.”



Kennedy told them how hard it was for his Irish ancestors when they arrived in America a hundred years ago. He said maybe in 40 years there will be a black president.



Baldwin: “Your family has been here for three generations. My family has been here far longer than that. Why is your brother at the top while we are still so far away? That is the heart of the problem.”



Jones (or Smith) said the president should escort black students to the all-white University of Alabama: “That way it will be clear that whoever spits on that child will be spitting on the nation.”



Kennedy and Marshall laughed.

Kennedy: “It would be meaningless moral gesture.”



Hansberry: “We would like from you, a moral commitment.”



Marshall spoke of “special men” in the FBI who protected civil rights workers. This produced almost hysterical laughter.



Kennedy could not talk to them the way he could talk to Dr King. They stood up, orated, cursed, cried. They were emotional, hysterical, “possessed”.

After three hours it ended in exhaustion. Kennedy was not getting it.

– Abagond, 2013, 2018.

The Baldwin-Kennedy meeting

 

[IM2]

Robert Kennedy after the Baldwin-Kennedy meeting
Monday June 11th 2018 by abagond



On May 24th 1963 Robert Kennedy met with James Baldwin to discuss race in the US. I already did a post on the meeting itself. This one is mainly about what Kennedy and those who knew him said about it afterwards.

Baldwin brought at least 15 people. Among them were Lorraine Hansberry, Lena Horne, Harry Belafonte, and Kenneth Clark (he of the Doll Experiment). This was just weeks after the Birmingham protests – fire hoses, police dogs, Bull Connor, King’s “Letter from Birmingham Jail”, all of that.



Enter Jerome Smith: The “cocktail-party patter” was soon swept away by the fury and anger of Jerome Smith. He was a Freedom Rider and CORE activist whose face and jaw had been badly beaten by police.

Kennedy tried to shut Smith down.

Blacks closed ranks behind Smith. Then came the flood: they spoke like it was their one chance to tell Robert Kennedy what they truly thought, their rage running free. He had never seen so much naked, Black pain before. It shook him.

Tone argument: After the meeting Kennedy was in a rage:

“They don’t know what the laws are. They don’t know what we’ve been doing or what we’re trying to do. You can’t talk to them the way you can talk to Martin Luther King or Roy Wilkins. They didn’t want to talk that way.

“It was all emotion, hysteria – they stood up and orated – they cursed – some of them wept and left the room.”

Ad hominem: Baldwin, Kennedy noted, was a homosexual (using an impolite word for that) and a “nut”. And:

“[A] number of them … I think, have complexes about the fact that they’ve been successful, they’ve done so well and this poor boy had been beaten by the police.”

Kennedy said they felt guilty that:

“they really hadn’t done their best … hadn’t done what they should have done for the Negro. So the way to show that they hadn’t forgotten where they came from was to berate me and berate the United States government.”

No ghetto pass for Kennedy: Nicholas Katzenbach, who was not at the meeting but who worked under Kennedy at the time as deputy attorney general (the Rod Rosenstein of his day), said:

“Bobby expected to be made an honorary black. [The meeting] really hurt his feelings, and it was pretty mean. But the fact that he thought he knew so much – and learned he didn’t – was important.”


From Baldwin’s FBI file, which even lists his extracurricular activities from high school. (Via MuckRock)

FBI surveillance for Baldwin and friends: Kennedy started or continued FBI surveillance on many of those who came to the meeting – even Rip Torn, who was White. Much of the 1,884 pages in Baldwin’s FBI file are from after the meeting.

In the long run, though, Robert Kennedy had enough honesty and empathy to understand that what they told him was more or less the truth:

“I guess if I were in his [Jerome Smith’s] shoes, if I had gone through what he’s gone through, I might feel differently about this country.”


Robert Kennedy five years later: May 15th 1968 in Detroit. One month later he would be dead. (Andrew Sacks/Getty Images, via NPR)

– Abagond, 2018.

Robert Kennedy after the Baldwin-Kennedy meeting

 

[toobfreak]

Funny how you don't say this to whites here about their threads bashing blacks. And how you participate in the bashing. This is the race and racism section maggot.

A). Show me a thread bashing Blacks, asshole.
B). Show me where I "participated."
C). It isn't bashing if it is merely stating a fact.
D). Any such threads started by or participated in by others, at least it isn't THE ONLY TOPIC they ever involve in!

 

[IM2]

Funny how you don't say this to whites here about their threads bashing blacks. And how you participate in the bashing. This is the race and racism section maggot.

A). Show me a thread bashing Blacks, asshole.
B). Show me where I "participated."
C). It isn't bashing if it is merely stating a fact.
D). Any such threads started by or participated in by others, at least it isn't THE ONLY TOPIC they ever involve in!

The majority of the threads here bash blacks. Given that we can't look at what you post, then it's easy for you to lie abut your participation. And if you are saying it's not bashing if it is merely stating facts, I'm not bashing whites. Because you guys have posted no facts. I have.

It's not the only section I'm involved in but you can show the where the rules here say you must participate in a specific different number of topics.

 

[ATL]

why should any white person discuss race at all, in any capacity?

As a white person, my reason s to share insights I have gained from being inter racially married. White folks who are open to hearing other people's experiences might learn something from mine.

Look at any of IM2's posts. He doesn't want to discuss race, he wants to tell white people that he knows everything there is to know about blacks or whites. No matter what you say about your experiences, if you are white, you are racist. Nothing any white person says means anything to him, only his opinions and experiences count. If whites have a different opinion, experience or view of things, we are racist. We are told that whites today are responsible for reparations to blacks. Total bullshit.

And when I said that white people are done with being lectured to like that


he and Katestevie had a fit that I dared speak for White People.



As though anyone wants to be lectured like they are ill mannered children.

Ill mannered children? How about extreme right wing, racist nuts like you?

No, you don't speak for "normal" white people, nor do I speak for all black people.

That being said, feel free to repost anything that I have stated that sounds like a "lecture".....even to fringe loonies like you.

1. As nothing I have ever said, justifies you calling me a "racist nut", FUCK YOU, YOU RACE BAITING ASSHOLE.

2. And I do speak for the majority of white people. We are done with shit like that. DONE. It is only our moronic leadership, fearful of being called names by the vile media, that is still happy to play by your rules. There is a reason that Trump won the majority of the white vote.


3. Your post, right here, is a fine example of a lecture, though a small and mercifully short one.

LoL, the cross burning will be extra bright tonight.....

 

[ATL]

Funny how you don't say this to whites here about their threads bashing blacks. And how you participate in the bashing. This is the race and racism section maggot.

A). Show me a thread bashing Blacks, asshole.
B). Show me where I "participated."
C). It isn't bashing if it is merely stating a fact.
D). Any such threads started by or participated in by others, at least it isn't THE ONLY TOPIC they ever involve in!

B. Is kinda the point he was making. You are nowhere to be found in the black bashing threads, nor accusing the bashers of being racist, yet you willingly show up in threads highlighting racism by whites trying to deflect with the loudest voice on calling the OP racist.

Classic qui tacet consentire videtur.

 

[IM2]

Funny how you don't say this to whites here about their threads bashing blacks. And how you participate in the bashing. This is the race and racism section maggot.

A). Show me a thread bashing Blacks, asshole.
B). Show me where I "participated."
C). It isn't bashing if it is merely stating a fact.
D). Any such threads started by or participated in by others, at least it isn't THE ONLY TOPIC they ever involve in!

B. Is kinda the point he was making. You are nowhere to be found in the black bashing threads, nor accusing the bashers of being racist, yet you willingly show up in threads highlighting racism by whites trying to deflect with the loudest voice on calling the OP racist.

Classic qui tacet consentire videtur.

US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum - Error
This member limits who may view their full profile.

This is some people will get you when you try to look for his posts. You can't go in his profile to see what he has posted or his threads. He knows that and then asks people to show where he does those things knowing that.

 

[toobfreak]

The majority of the threads here bash blacks.

More than 50% of ALL threads here among, what, 47,000 members are all bashing blacks? Do you know how many threads that is? YOU are a crackpot delusional racist!

Given that we can't look at what you post,

Sure you can. And if you haven't seen or read any of my posts, HOW DO YOU KNOW I'M BASHING BLACKS you fuckhead?

then it's easy for you to lie abut your participation.

If I'm "lying about my participation" you white-hating bigot, then easy------ PROVE IT. SHOW US THE EVIDENCE OR STFU and drop dead.

And if you are saying it's not bashing if it is merely stating facts, I'm not bashing whites. Because you guys have posted no facts. I have.

Facts are facts because they are independently corroborated from unbiased sources. And who the hell are "you guys?" What guys? You are a total idiot consumed with bigotry and hate for whites and yourself. To expect an intelligent conversation out of you is a total waste of one's time. Even your avatar is racist and anti-white.

 

[KissMy]

Whites are so Oppressing Blacks - LOL!!!

 

[IM2]

Funny how you don't say this to whites here about their threads bashing blacks. And how you participate in the bashing. This is the race and racism section maggot.

A). Show me a thread bashing Blacks, asshole.
B). Show me where I "participated."
C). It isn't bashing if it is merely stating a fact.
D). Any such threads started by or participated in by others, at least it isn't THE ONLY TOPIC they ever involve in!

B. Is kinda the point he was making. You are nowhere to be found in the black bashing threads, nor accusing the bashers of being racist, yet you willingly show up in threads highlighting racism by whites trying to deflect with the loudest voice on calling the OP racist.

Classic qui tacet consentire videtur.

There is a fool in another section who says the union was on the wrong side during the civil war. This is the kind of shit that's allowed to grow here. But let me start a thread about the NOI and it will be closed in less than an hour.

 

[KissMy]

 

[toobfreak]

B. Is kinda the point he was making. You are nowhere to be found in the black bashing threads, nor accusing the bashers of being racist, yet you willingly show up in threads highlighting racism by whites trying to deflect with the loudest voice on calling the OP racist.

So by my mere absence from participating in racist topics, I'm a racist.

Maybe I don't show up here much because not many of these racial threads are interesting, constructive, or show up in the most active topic column, where I spend most of my time. Maybe I don't spend a lot of time thinking about racism because I know that the main thing that keeps racism alive are people like you, mostly blacks, who do nothing but see everything in terms of race, division, polarity, and are constantly beating people over the head with it! Maybe if people just moved on and got over their fucking skin colour and worried about other things, they'd find the world a far better and freer place than they ever imagined. If you really must know, the only thing that drew me to this thread at all in the first place was the obviously overt trolling of white-bashing in its title. Tell me, how many whites have you converted so far over into your way of thinking? Or do you just increase polarity? I can't remember the last thread I've seen that had an overtly negative, black-hating connotation in its title, but I admit, I don't actually go through the race forum down the column LOOKING for them either. Got better things to do. Race is only one more device used by the Left to divide you up into politically-consumable victim groups to maneuver you into another useful voting block for THEM.

 

[IM2]

The majority of the threads here bash blacks.

More than 50% of ALL threads here among, what, 47,000 members are all bashing blacks? Do you know how many threads that is? YOU are a crackpot delusional racist!

Given that we can't look at what you post,

Sure you can. And if you haven't seen or read any of my posts, HOW DO YOU KNOW I'M BASHING BLACKS you fuckhead?

then it's easy for you to lie abut your participation.

If I'm "lying about my participation" you white-hating bigot, then easy------ PROVE IT. SHOW US THE EVIDENCE OR STFU and drop dead.

And if you are saying it's not bashing if it is merely stating facts, I'm not bashing whites. Because you guys have posted no facts. I have.

Facts are facts because they are independently corroborated from unbiased sources. And who the hell are "you guys?" What guys? You are a total idiot consumed with bigotry and hate for whites and yourself. To expect an intelligent conversation out of you is a total waste of one's time.

Now let me skip your lying and crying and get direct to the point. Facts are facts and you have been shown the fact that everything you white racists have said about blacks is incorrect.