White America's Greatest Delusion: "They Do Not Know It and They Do Not Want to Know It"

[Katzndogz]

Some folks are going to be consumed by their white guilt no matter what, and they're going to overcompensate by lowering standards for blacks to assuage their guilt. It's not exactly a secret that isolating people by lowering standards for people ultimately hurts them; it's not about helping them, it's about assuaging the guilt.

Great, knock yerself out.

Others of us have all the white guilt sucked out of us and really don't give a shit any more. We'll continue to judge people based on the content of their character.

.

It's called Negro Fatigue Syndrome. It's where black people have avoided, made excuses and blamed others so much that your eyes glaze over, you get ringing in your ears and can't hear so you walk away.

 

[Muhammed]

Excellent thread.

If only you could kill ****** - amirite?

The Author:

Did you have a point? We all know who the turd Baldwin is.

I think the clown's point is to redirect traffic from this forum to the Alternet forum.

 

[syonidv]

I just marvel at the fact that the people who seem to care most deeply and earnestly about the black/white divide in America are the most stalwart supporters of social policies/attitudes that, by any reasonable objective standard, have proven to be utter failures.

Get rid of Affirmative Action.

Get rid of any sympathy for demagogues like Al Sharpton who've built an entire industry out of fanning the flames of hatred.

Get rid of proactive policies that, in failing to change people's hearts and minds, breed resentment by shellacking over the problem with a veneer of quotas, handouts, and political correctness. Nothing you can do will "compensate" for the inherent injustices faced by blacks. It's folly to think that lowering standards and forcing people into positions by any criteria other than their own merits will somehow remedy the problem.

In short, if you truly care about black Americans, pull your head out of your fanny and take a good objective look at the fruits of social engineering thus far: they're bloody rotten.

You don't combat racism with racism of the opposite parity. It doesn't work.

 

[DigitalDrifter]

Some folks are going to be consumed by their white guilt no matter what, and they're going to overcompensate by lowering standards for blacks to assuage their guilt. It's not exactly a secret that isolating people by lowering standards for people ultimately hurts them; it's not about helping them, it's about assuaging the guilt.

Great, knock yerself out.

Others of us have all the white guilt sucked out of us and really don't give a shit any more. We'll continue to judge people based on the content of their character.

.

Liberals don't care if in the long run blacks are hurt by their policies, they simply want to rid themselves of the guilt this instant.

 

[AmericanFirst]

Just remember, the kk is a dimwit organization.

 

[ClosedCaption]

We are here because of blood, and mostly that of others; here because of our insatiable and rapacious desire to take by force the land and labor of those others. We are the last people on Earth with a right to ruminate upon the superior morality of peaceful protest. We have never believed in it and rarely practiced it. Rather, we have always taken what we desire, and when denied it we have turned to means utterly genocidal to make it so.

This sounds like a challenge.

I suppose it's time to forsake the pretenses and return to more overt means of subjugating non-whites.

Seriously, ClosedCaption: What do you want conservatives to do? Forsake the rule of law? Double down on "racism of low expectations" policies such as Affirmative Action that are instrumental in perpetuating racist attitudes? Give black strangers a hug?

Give us something actionable. Tell me, in plain language: what can I, Virgil the white guy, do to help rectify the situation? Obviously my policy of showing no preference to either blacks or whites--holding all men to a common standard--isn't good enough for you, so give me a concise, tangible description of what is.

I got it and it's so simple: when an entire population is decrying unfair treatment listen to them and stop pretending that that entire group is having a mass hallucination.

You can also stop equating AA programs as being for stupid people. Kinda insulting and since white women benefit from AA more than anyone the "reverse racism" label is rather silly.

Unless you consider white women to be to stupid to make it on their own too. Most dont...they have different "reasons" why white women do it which of course turns into nefarious ones when you change 5he skin color.

 

[syonidv]

We are here because of blood, and mostly that of others; here because of our insatiable and rapacious desire to take by force the land and labor of those others. We are the last people on Earth with a right to ruminate upon the superior morality of peaceful protest. We have never believed in it and rarely practiced it. Rather, we have always taken what we desire, and when denied it we have turned to means utterly genocidal to make it so.

This sounds like a challenge.

I suppose it's time to forsake the pretenses and return to more overt means of subjugating non-whites.

Seriously, ClosedCaption: What do you want conservatives to do? Forsake the rule of law? Double down on "racism of low expectations" policies such as Affirmative Action that are instrumental in perpetuating racist attitudes? Give black strangers a hug?

Give us something actionable. Tell me, in plain language: what can I, Virgil the white guy, do to help rectify the situation? Obviously my policy of showing no preference to either blacks or whites--holding all men to a common standard--isn't good enough for you, so give me a concise, tangible description of what is.

I got it and it's so simple: when an entire population is decrying unfair treatment listen to them and stop pretending that that entire group is having a mass hallucination.

You can also stop equating AA programs as being for stupid people. Kinda insulting and since white women benefit from AA more than anyone the "reverse racism" label is rather silly.

Unless you consider white women to be to stupid to make it on their own too. Most dont...they have different "reasons" why white women do it which of course turns into nefarious ones when you change 5he skin color.

Not surprisingly, AA contributes to the public perception that women aren't capable of holding their own against their male counterparts without the long arm of the government foisting them off on unreceptive employers. The same stigma holds true for black Americans. If people aren't hired based solely on their skills, an individual has no prima facie means of distinguishing a competent worker from a warm body filling a quota, and I guarantee you they're not going to default to "competent worker" when faced with that uncertainty.

As for white people claiming blacks are having a "mass hallucination", you'd do better to call people out on specific instances. I'm a white person, presumably one of the people you're condemning, but I've never claimed blacks are hallucinating social injustices. I lack empathy for youth involved in criminal behaviour, I don't believe in compromising standards, and in the absence of any evidence I'll believe the word of a law officer over the word of a suspect, but I hold no delusions that there aren't abuses of authority.

In your mind, should white Americans not give law officers the benefit of the doubt in the absence of hard evidence? Should we flip a coin and side with the suspect 50% of the time?

 

[SAYIT]

When you have the power you can take out your hatreds and frustrations directly upon the bodies of others. This is what we have done, not only in the above mentioned examples but right here at home. The so-called ghetto was created and not accidentally. It was designed as a virtual holding pen---a concentration camp were we to insist upon honest language---within which impoverished persons of color would be contained. It was created by generations of housing discrimination, which limited where its residents could live. It was created by decade after decade of white riots against black people whenever they would move into white neighborhoods. It was created by deindustrialization and the flight of good-paying manufacturing jobs overseas.

And all of that is violence too. It is the kind of violence that the powerful, and only they, can manifest. One needn't throw a Molotov cocktail through a window when one can knock down the building using a bulldozer or crane operated with public money. One need not loot a store when one can loot the residents of the community as happened in Ferguson---giving out tickets to black folks for minor infractions so as to rack up huge fines and fees, thereby funding city government on the backs of the poor. Zoning laws, eminent domain, redlining, predatory lending, stop-and-frisk: all of these are forms of violence, however much white America fails to understand that. They do violence to the opportunities and dreams of millions, living in neighborhoods most of us have never visited. Indeed, in neighborhoods we consider so God-forsaken that we even have a phone app now to help us avoid them.


This guy is killing it!!!

With a crock of classically hypocritical bleeding-heart whinery.

 

[Correll]

"It is bad enough that much of white America sees fit to lecture black people about the proper response to police brutality, economic devastation and perpetual marginality,"


This is where I stopped reading.

The problem is not that White America is lecturing. THe problem is that White America is tired of being lectured TO.

About what? Civil rights? MLK? Police brutality?

If you continued reading (which you didn't and the entire point that whites arent interested in knowing about) you would see that no matter the time or circumstances whites have always not cared since before blacks were even allowed to lecture anyone on anything

You missed the point.

We are tired of being lectured TO.

And like I said you were "tired" of it before blacks could or were allowed to lecture.

You want to discuss issues, we are there.

If you open the discussion with the premise that whites are so ignorant that they don't even know they are ignorant, and that they want to remain ignorant?

Piss off.

Well, I've opened before by saying ask me a question and I can tell you from a black point of view but it always ends up quickly going into a "I dont understand why cant blacks..." discussion.

Of course you dont understand because even when I try to explain it you get mad and defensive.

Then end it with "I'm tired of it"

YOU'RE tired of it? Words? Sheesh, imagine how tired you'd be if it resulted in actual actions.

You open your thread with an attack on Whites and then complain that we are defensive?

Imagine that.

An "attack"? See? Super defensive when nothing in it was an "attack"

Really?

From the op.

"this is the crime of which I accuse my country and my countrymen and for which neither I nor time nor history will ever forgive them, that they have destroyed and are destroying hundreds of thousands of lives and do not know it and do not want to know it...but it is not permissible that the authors of devastation should also be innocent. It is the innocence which constitutes the crime"


Your op literally accuses White America of unforgivable crimes.

THe thread title accuses White America of being delusional.

Great way to open a dialog.

 

[ClosedCaption]

Some folks are going to be consumed by their white guilt no matter what, and they're going to overcompensate by lowering standards for blacks to assuage their guilt. It's not exactly a secret that isolating people by lowering standards for people ultimately hurts them; it's not about helping them, it's about assuaging the guilt.

Great, knock yerself out.

Others of us have all the white guilt sucked out of us and really don't give a shit any more. We'll continue to judge people based on the content of their character.

.

My god how I wish the last part was true amongst many other whites. Unfortunately we've seen from historical and statistical evidence that isn't the case. If blacks were treated equally these programs wouldn't be needed. Basically your reasoning is despite all evidence to the contrary blacks should listen to what you think is needed for blacks because you feel it.

And as soon as blacks reject AA programs (which you have no answer for how to do that). Or they all go away... THEN, Suddenly blacks will for the first time in the history of the US blacks won't face discrimination and stereotypes because you feel it?

 

[ClosedCaption]

We are here because of blood, and mostly that of others; here because of our insatiable and rapacious desire to take by force the land and labor of those others. We are the last people on Earth with a right to ruminate upon the superior morality of peaceful protest. We have never believed in it and rarely practiced it. Rather, we have always taken what we desire, and when denied it we have turned to means utterly genocidal to make it so.

This sounds like a challenge.

I suppose it's time to forsake the pretenses and return to more overt means of subjugating non-whites.

Seriously, ClosedCaption: What do you want conservatives to do? Forsake the rule of law? Double down on "racism of low expectations" policies such as Affirmative Action that are instrumental in perpetuating racist attitudes? Give black strangers a hug?

Give us something actionable. Tell me, in plain language: what can I, Virgil the white guy, do to help rectify the situation? Obviously my policy of showing no preference to either blacks or whites--holding all men to a common standard--isn't good enough for you, so give me a concise, tangible description of what is.

I got it and it's so simple: when an entire population is decrying unfair treatment listen to them and stop pretending that that entire group is having a mass hallucination.

You can also stop equating AA programs as being for stupid people. Kinda insulting and since white women benefit from AA more than anyone the "reverse racism" label is rather silly.

Unless you consider white women to be to stupid to make it on their own too. Most dont...they have different "reasons" why white women do it which of course turns into nefarious ones when you change 5he skin color.

Not surprisingly, AA contributes to the public perception that women aren't capable of holding their own against their male counterparts without the long arm of the government foisting them off on unreceptive employers. The same stigma holds true for black Americans. If people aren't hired based solely on their skills, an individual has no prima facie means of distinguishing a competent worker from a warm body filling a quota, and I guarantee you they're not going to default to "competent worker" when faced with that uncertainty.

As for white people claiming blacks are having a "mass hallucination", you'd do better to call people out on specific instances. I'm a white person, presumably one of the people you're condemning, but I've never claimed blacks are hallucinating social injustices. I lack empathy for youth involved in criminal behaviour, I don't believe in compromising standards, and in the absence of any evidence I'll believe the word of a law officer over the word of a suspect, but I hold no delusions that there aren't abuses of authority.

In your mind, should white Americans not give law officers the benefit of the doubt in the absence of hard evidence? Should we flip a coin and side with the suspect 50% of the time?

Well, you asked me what you can do. If you aren't one to engage in those actions I mentioned it's rather silly to be offended by them since you aren't guilty.

It's not about having empathy or any other feelings toward youth crime. It's about jumping to easy conclusions about an entire race. About asking (which you did and I appreciate) questions. You'll notice a ton of threads from a ton of whites that claim to be experts on blacks and any other explanation but theirs is wrong because they know best.

And other whites understand and engage. But is you expect me to talk about this by every sentence saying "not all", "some", etc. We both know there is no such thing as absolutes so do we really need to state the obvious?

 

[Stephanie]

About what? Civil rights? MLK? Police brutality?

If you continued reading (which you didn't and the entire point that whites arent interested in knowing about) you would see that no matter the time or circumstances whites have always not cared since before blacks were even allowed to lecture anyone on anything

You missed the point.

We are tired of being lectured TO.

And like I said you were "tired" of it before blacks could or were allowed to lecture.

You want to discuss issues, we are there.

If you open the discussion with the premise that whites are so ignorant that they don't even know they are ignorant, and that they want to remain ignorant?

Piss off.

Well, I've opened before by saying ask me a question and I can tell you from a black point of view but it always ends up quickly going into a "I dont understand why cant blacks..." discussion.

Of course you dont understand because even when I try to explain it you get mad and defensive.

Then end it with "I'm tired of it"

YOU'RE tired of it? Words? Sheesh, imagine how tired you'd be if it resulted in actual actions.

You open your thread with an attack on Whites and then complain that we are defensive?

Imagine that.

An "attack"? See? Super defensive when nothing in it was an "attack"

Really?

From the op.

"this is the crime of which I accuse my country and my countrymen and for which neither I nor time nor history will ever forgive them, that they have destroyed and are destroying hundreds of thousands of lives and do not know it and do not want to know it...but it is not permissible that the authors of devastation should also be innocent. It is the innocence which constitutes the crime"


Your op literally accuses White America of unforgivable crimes.

THe thread title accuses White America of being delusional.

Great way to open a dialog.

It's Probably written from some liberal/progressive. so you can't expect intelligent, unbiased or without it being stupid and nasty. I wouldn't even waste my time reading it

 

[EverCurious]

All I got out of that was "you owe me" mentality.

I can see there's a problem in the "ghettos." However, thus far, all evidence I have seen points to it being /not/ white people's fault. In fact, if anything, these riots and jumping the gun on police brutality crap have done little more than made me racist towards certain "types" of African Americans. Which is really sad considering my stepson is a half and half, and I'm good friends with his mother (who is African American,) that a lot of my friends are African American, and that I've worked with so many great African American's over the years, but now, now I am told that /those/ are not /true/ blacks, they are traitors, they are uncle toms...

It sickens me that these ghetto ***** have made me question my position as a non-racist though their repeated and ever worsening activities and lifestyle choices, but I cannot help myself, I can only console myself in that I seriously dislike white criminals and idiots as well...

 

[ClosedCaption]

All I got out of that was "you owe me" mentality.

I can see there's a problem in the "ghettos." However, thus far, all evidence I have seen points to it being /not/ white people's fault.

Blacks dont run anything and didnt create the ghettos they were just steered there. Its well documented.

In fact, if anything, these riots and jumping the gun on police brutality crap have done little more than made me racist towards certain "types" of African Americans. Which is really sad considering my stepson is a half and half, and I'm good friends with his mother (who is African American,) that a lot of my friends are African American, and that I've worked with so many great African American's over the years, but now, now I am told that /those/ are not /true/ blacks, they are traitors, they are uncle toms...

You just made that up because no one here knows your family to determine they are uncle toms. Additionally, it always seems to anger whites when blacks complain about being mistreated. You know whats worse than hearing complaints? Being mistreated!! So sorry, if pleas for fairness bother you. But to "become racist" isnt the fault of the race, its yours. There isnt a racist alive who doesnt believe their thoughts are the fault of the group they are racist against.

It sickens me that these ghetto ***** have made me question my position as a non-racist though their repeated and ever worsening activities and lifestyle choices, but I cannot help myself, I can only console myself in that I seriously dislike white criminals and idiots as well...

you can help yourself, its called personal responsibility. Why is that white criminals have made you racist too?

See? You dislike crime, great. you dislike criminals, join the club. You become racist because of it? Thats on you

 

[EverCurious]

All I got out of that was "you owe me" mentality.

I can see there's a problem in the "ghettos." However, thus far, all evidence I have seen points to it being /not/ white people's fault.

Blacks dont run anything and didnt create the ghettos they were just steered there. Its well documented.

I don't see any evidence of them trying real hard to get out of them though. The African American friends I have got out and they don't have that "you owe me" mentality either.

In fact, if anything, these riots and jumping the gun on police brutality crap have done little more than made me racist towards certain "types" of African Americans. Which is really sad considering my stepson is a half and half, and I'm good friends with his mother (who is African American,) that a lot of my friends are African American, and that I've worked with so many great African American's over the years, but now, now I am told that /those/ are not /true/ blacks, they are traitors, they are uncle toms...

You just made that up because no one here knows your family to determine they are uncle toms. Additionally, it always seems to anger whites when blacks complain about being mistreated. You know whats worse than hearing complaints? Being mistreated!! So sorry, if pleas for fairness bother you. But to "become racist" isnt the fault of the race, its yours. There isnt a racist alive who doesnt believe their thoughts are the fault of the group they are racist against.

Maybe it is my fault, because I don't believe that criminal activity is excusable, because I don't believe that two wrongs make a right, because I don't believe that hating police officers for a few bad apples is right, because I don't believe that white people are holding anyone down.

All the African American's I chat with regularly, in general, agree on my opinions regarding recent racial divide issues, the only exception has been some debate on if removing AA would be a good idea/if it's still necessary. They do not feel mistreated or angry about their lot in life.

It sickens me that these ghetto ***** have made me question my position as a non-racist though their repeated and ever worsening activities and lifestyle choices, but I cannot help myself, I can only console myself in that I seriously dislike white criminals and idiots as well...

you can help yourself, its called personal responsibility. Why is that white criminals have made you racist too?

See? You dislike crime, great. you dislike criminals, join the club. You become racist because of it? Thats on you

Like I said some types. I thought the general rule was if you disliked a black person it is automatically racism. That's what I'm told every time I say something bad about Obama or his policies... or disagree that a police officer was in the wrong... or say anything about how they shouldn't be rioting or burning down their city... or if I try to discuss certain politics... or if I talk about my African American friends who agree with me... I'm just trying to play by /their/ rules here.

 

[DigitalDrifter]

 

[ptbw forever]

We are here because of blood, and mostly that of others; here because of our insatiable and rapacious desire to take by force the land and labor of those others. We are the last people on Earth with a right to ruminate upon the superior morality of peaceful protest. We have never believed in it and rarely practiced it. Rather, we have always taken what we desire, and when denied it we have turned to means utterly genocidal to make it so.

This sounds like a challenge.

I suppose it's time to forsake the pretenses and return to more overt means of subjugating non-whites.

Seriously, ClosedCaption: What do you want conservatives to do? Forsake the rule of law? Double down on "racism of low expectations" policies such as Affirmative Action that are instrumental in perpetuating racist attitudes? Give black strangers a hug?

Give us something actionable. Tell me, in plain language: what can I, Virgil the white guy, do to help rectify the situation? Obviously my policy of showing no preference to either blacks or whites--holding all men to a common standard--isn't good enough for you, so give me a concise, tangible description of what is.

I got it and it's so simple: when an entire population is decrying unfair treatment listen to them and stop pretending that that entire group is having a mass hallucination.

You can also stop equating AA programs as being for stupid people. Kinda insulting and since white women benefit from AA more than anyone the "reverse racism" label is rather silly.

Unless you consider white women to be to stupid to make it on their own too. Most dont...they have different "reasons" why white women do it which of course turns into nefarious ones when you change 5he skin color.

You mean like when white people unanimously said Democrats were screwing them over in favor of non-whites and non-whites largely agreed in the Tufts/Harvard poll, but idiots like Tim Wise told white people to shut up and take it?

 

[bucs90]

We are here because of blood, and mostly that of others; here because of our insatiable and rapacious desire to take by force the land and labor of those others. We are the last people on Earth with a right to ruminate upon the superior morality of peaceful protest. We have never believed in it and rarely practiced it. Rather, we have always taken what we desire, and when denied it we have turned to means utterly genocidal to make it so.

This sounds like a challenge.

I suppose it's time to forsake the pretenses and return to more overt means of subjugating non-whites.

Seriously, ClosedCaption: What do you want conservatives to do? Forsake the rule of law? Double down on "racism of low expectations" policies such as Affirmative Action that are instrumental in perpetuating racist attitudes? Give black strangers a hug?

Give us something actionable. Tell me, in plain language: what can I, Virgil the white guy, do to help rectify the situation? Obviously my policy of showing no preference to either blacks or whites--holding all men to a common standard--isn't good enough for you, so give me a concise, tangible description of what is.

I got it and it's so simple: when an entire population is decrying unfair treatment listen to them and stop pretending that that entire group is having a mass hallucination.

You can also stop equating AA programs as being for stupid people. Kinda insulting and since white women benefit from AA more than anyone the "reverse racism" label is rather silly.

Unless you consider white women to be to stupid to make it on their own too. Most dont...they have different "reasons" why white women do it which of course turns into nefarious ones when you change 5he skin color.

Not surprisingly, AA contributes to the public perception that women aren't capable of holding their own against their male counterparts without the long arm of the government foisting them off on unreceptive employers. The same stigma holds true for black Americans. If people aren't hired based solely on their skills, an individual has no prima facie means of distinguishing a competent worker from a warm body filling a quota, and I guarantee you they're not going to default to "competent worker" when faced with that uncertainty.

As for white people claiming blacks are having a "mass hallucination", you'd do better to call people out on specific instances. I'm a white person, presumably one of the people you're condemning, but I've never claimed blacks are hallucinating social injustices. I lack empathy for youth involved in criminal behaviour, I don't believe in compromising standards, and in the absence of any evidence I'll believe the word of a law officer over the word of a suspect, but I hold no delusions that there aren't abuses of authority.

In your mind, should white Americans not give law officers the benefit of the doubt in the absence of hard evidence? Should we flip a coin and side with the suspect 50% of the time?

Well, you asked me what you can do. If you aren't one to engage in those actions I mentioned it's rather silly to be offended by them since you aren't guilty.

It's not about having empathy or any other feelings toward youth crime. It's about jumping to easy conclusions about an entire race. About asking (which you did and I appreciate) questions. You'll notice a ton of threads from a ton of whites that claim to be experts on blacks and any other explanation but theirs is wrong because they know best.

And other whites understand and engage. But is you expect me to talk about this by every sentence saying "not all", "some", etc. We both know there is no such thing as absolutes so do we really need to state the obvious?

Your mistake us assuming we havent listened to their complaints. Assuming we didnt consider their point of view.

We did. We have. And they're full of shit. They're poor because they or their parents made shitty personal life decisions. We have had trillions of our tax dollars funneled to their communities. Yet....the poor life decisions continue.

The one and ONLY answer comes inside their home. When parents decide to instill morals and discipline. Will it ALWAYS work? No. Its why there are criminals in all walks of life. But...it usually works. And a total lack of it will produce mass poverty and crime.

Sorry. But we listened and we now dont care.

 

[ClosedCaption]

EverCurious there is no such thing as evidence that blacks are trying to get out the ghetto and that's the reason you don't see it.

What you believe and what's happening are two different things. You are free to believe that discrimation doesn't hold anyone down. But the definition of discrimation in action holds people down. You can not believe in the flu all you want but it doesn't cease to exist based on your belief.

You and I both know the definition of racism so let's cut the shit shall we? Maybe your definition is screwed and you used the wrong word. But the point stands that no one is responsible for YOUR racism but yourself.

 

[ClosedCaption]

The only thing Bucs keeps saying is its a choice to make good or bad decisions. I agree. But Bucs will not or cannot explain how a black person pays more for the same services as whites and other well documented issues.

So Bucs explain to me how housing discrimination is a product of bad upbringing.

I'll wait.