Which Side Are You On?

[thereisnospoon]

The single minimum wage job I held in the '70s "covered the rent on a brand new one-bedroom apartment with enough left over to maintain a six year old (car)".

In the '70s a new one-bedroom rented for $175 to $200 per month.
Many rent for ten times that much today, at least where I'm living.
During that same time GDP as more than doubled and productivity has increased by 70% yet most of those gains have gone to investors, not labor.

Since I "retired" in 2009 I've even been effectively priced out of single apartments that charge market-based rents, and part-time work was all I was able to find.

I'm not trying to white-wash the many mistakes I've made since the 1970s; however, I'm also not willing to ignore the redistribution of wealth that's taken place during that time either.

In the late 30's and early 40's when my mother was a little girl, her mother would hand her 5 cents and send her off to the movie thatre for a Saturday afternoon of fun. That would allow her to see a double-feature movie, newsreels and buy a bag of candy or popcorn.
Back then the average wage was around 30 cents per hour. So for an hour's pay one could visit the theatre 5 times.
However, a gallon of gasoline cost 15 to 20 cents per gallon. So it cost about .6 to .75 hrs labor for a gallon of gas.
Today....The average wage is about $16 per hour. That means one can see just 1.7 movies for an hour's wage. And at $4 per gallon, one can buy 4 gallons of gas.
The issue here is not unequal wealth distribution, rather it is the cost of things.
Costs have far out run earnings. Sucks.
The cost of housing is regionally identified. Where the cost of goods is relatively similar across the nation.

 

[georgephillip]

And since 1978 0.01% of Americans have seen their wealth increase by 550%.

Possibly this has had some effect on the cost of things.

America is 234 Years Old Today – Is It Finished? | Phil

 

[georgephillip]

Wall street is the most corrupt street in the WORLD. Someone want to argue this?

Please offer up some bits of wisdom as to how it you came up with this conclusion?
Are you actually so hung up on "go to work, get paid and there's no other legitimate way to earn a living"?
Do you believe that doing what one can do to make their savings and investment work for them is somehow evil?
401k's, mutual funds, IRA accounts, Keough accounts, money market funds, all evil?
What about investing in a local business as a silent partner for the express purpose of positive return on investment? Evil?
Did it ever occur to you that most 401k's and mutual funds are invested in Blue Chip stocks such as Exxon/Mobil, Walmart, Coca Cola, Pepsico, AT&T and others?

Fish rot from the head down.

"Greg Gordon, McClatchy News Investigative reporter, reveals how Goldman Sachs didn't tell buyers of 40 Billion in toxic Mortgage securities that it was secretly betting the other way ~ standard fare for a Wall Street crime syndicate that is about to become exposed:

"As I have said for some time, it's an Oligarchy, folks ~ the tyranny of the elites with government and Wall Street ruled by the powerful few ~ and the Obama administration is part of it.

"In other words, Wall Street is the only game in town and it's crooked !

"Ben Bernanke is a stooge for the Oligarchy along with former NY Fed chief and present Sec of the Treasury ~ Tim Geithner. Allen L Roland's Radio Weblog

"Here is Greg Gordon's, McClatchy News, detailed article on how Goldman Sach's scammed the system by selling toxic mortgages that they knew were not being reviewed ~ and then secretly bet the other way with high flying derivatives. http://www.truthout.org/1101095."

WALL STREET CRIME SYNDICATE / GOLDMAN SACHS EXPOSED

 

[Newby]

The single minimum wage job I held in the '70s "covered the rent on a brand new one-bedroom apartment with enough left over to maintain a six year old (car)".

In the '70s a new one-bedroom rented for $175 to $200 per month.
Many rent for ten times that much today, at least where I'm living.
During that same time GDP as more than doubled and productivity has increased by 70% yet most of those gains have gone to investors, not labor.

Since I "retired" in 2009 I've even been effectively priced out of single apartments that charge market-based rents, and part-time work was all I was able to find.

I'm not trying to white-wash the many mistakes I've made since the 1970s; however, I'm also not willing to ignore the redistribution of wealth that's taken place during that time either.

What makes you think that anyone should be able to 'live' while maintaining a minimum wage job? They're not supposed to support a family, they're not intended to be a long term solution. They're for young adults who are still at home with Mom and Dad and don't yet need to support themselves on their own. Or for retired people or other people who just want a supplemental income. Just because you could live on minimum wage in the 70's doesn't mean you should be able to now. As you matured, the idea was to better your circumstances and get out of the minimum wage job. It's not the 'rich guy' that's put you in the position you find yourself in now.

 

[georgephillip]

The single minimum wage job I held in the '70s "covered the rent on a brand new one-bedroom apartment with enough left over to maintain a six year old (car)".

In the '70s a new one-bedroom rented for $175 to $200 per month.
Many rent for ten times that much today, at least where I'm living.
During that same time GDP as more than doubled and productivity has increased by 70% yet most of those gains have gone to investors, not labor.

Since I "retired" in 2009 I've even been effectively priced out of single apartments that charge market-based rents, and part-time work was all I was able to find.

I'm not trying to white-wash the many mistakes I've made since the 1970s; however, I'm also not willing to ignore the redistribution of wealth that's taken place during that time either.

What makes you think that anyone should be able to 'live' while maintaining a minimum wage job? They're not supposed to support a family, they're not intended to be a long term solution. They're for young adults who are still at home with Mom and Dad and don't yet need to support themselves on their own. Or for retired people or other people who just want a supplemental income. Just because you could live on minimum wage in the 70's doesn't mean you should be able to now. As you matured, the idea was to better your circumstances and get out of the minimum wage job. It's not the 'rich guy' that's put you in the position you find yourself in now.

If you're suggesting those earning minimum wage should not be able to "live", what's their alternative?

Afghanistan?

When you say minimum wage was not supposed to support a family, how do you explain the claim that "(i)n 1968 the minimum wage served to keep 86% of workers and their families above the poverty line for a family of four."

"Today that percentage has dropped to 64%, in effect leaving 36% of wage earners living at or below the poverty line."

What makes you think anyone working for their living should require food stamps to feed their family?

Minimum Wage Vs a Living Wage

 

[Newby]

The single minimum wage job I held in the '70s "covered the rent on a brand new one-bedroom apartment with enough left over to maintain a six year old (car)".

In the '70s a new one-bedroom rented for $175 to $200 per month.
Many rent for ten times that much today, at least where I'm living.
During that same time GDP as more than doubled and productivity has increased by 70% yet most of those gains have gone to investors, not labor.

Since I "retired" in 2009 I've even been effectively priced out of single apartments that charge market-based rents, and part-time work was all I was able to find.

I'm not trying to white-wash the many mistakes I've made since the 1970s; however, I'm also not willing to ignore the redistribution of wealth that's taken place during that time either.

What makes you think that anyone should be able to 'live' while maintaining a minimum wage job? They're not supposed to support a family, they're not intended to be a long term solution. They're for young adults who are still at home with Mom and Dad and don't yet need to support themselves on their own. Or for retired people or other people who just want a supplemental income. Just because you could live on minimum wage in the 70's doesn't mean you should be able to now. As you matured, the idea was to better your circumstances and get out of the minimum wage job. It's not the 'rich guy' that's put you in the position you find yourself in now.

If you're suggesting those earning minimum wage should not be able to "live", what's their alternative?

Afghanistan?

When you say minimum wage was not supposed to support a family, how do you explain the claim that "(i)n 1968 the minimum wage served to keep 86% of workers and their families above the poverty line for a family of four."

"Today that percentage has dropped to 64%, in effect leaving 36% of wage earners living at or below the poverty line."

What makes you think anyone working for their living should require food stamps to feed their family?

Minimum Wage Vs a Living Wage

What's their alternative????? Seriously???? There are literally thousands of opportunities to do whatever you want in this country. All it takes is ambition, drive, willpower and hard work. How the hell do you think those of us making a lot more than minimum wage got to where we are at?? We just had it handed to us?? I've known many people that struggled and worked hard to pull themselves up and have become very successful. Where do you come by this 'poor me, woah is me' attitude? If your only goal in life is to work at McDonalds then that's your choice, and if you can't afford to feed a family when making that choice, then don't have one. If you want the American dream, then work your ass off to get an education so you can get a job that gives you a 'living wage'.

 

[thereisnospoon]

And since 1978 0.01% of Americans have seen their wealth increase by 550%.

Possibly this has had some effect on the cost of things.

America is 234 Years Old Today – Is It Finished? | Phil

Possibly?....And what's with the opinion piece? What one writer with a political agenda has to say, is unimportant.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Wall street is the most corrupt street in the WORLD. Someone want to argue this?

Please offer up some bits of wisdom as to how it you came up with this conclusion?
Are you actually so hung up on "go to work, get paid and there's no other legitimate way to earn a living"?
Do you believe that doing what one can do to make their savings and investment work for them is somehow evil?
401k's, mutual funds, IRA accounts, Keough accounts, money market funds, all evil?
What about investing in a local business as a silent partner for the express purpose of positive return on investment? Evil?
Did it ever occur to you that most 401k's and mutual funds are invested in Blue Chip stocks such as Exxon/Mobil, Walmart, Coca Cola, Pepsico, AT&T and others?

Fish rot from the head down.

"Greg Gordon, McClatchy News Investigative reporter, reveals how Goldman Sachs didn't tell buyers of 40 Billion in toxic Mortgage securities that it was secretly betting the other way ~ standard fare for a Wall Street crime syndicate that is about to become exposed:

"As I have said for some time, it's an Oligarchy, folks ~ the tyranny of the elites with government and Wall Street ruled by the powerful few ~ and the Obama administration is part of it.

"In other words, Wall Street is the only game in town and it's crooked !

"Ben Bernanke is a stooge for the Oligarchy along with former NY Fed chief and present Sec of the Treasury ~ Tim Geithner. Allen L Roland's Radio Weblog

"Here is Greg Gordon's, McClatchy News, detailed article on how Goldman Sach's scammed the system by selling toxic mortgages that they knew were not being reviewed ~ and then secretly bet the other way with high flying derivatives. http://www.truthout.org/1101095."

WALL STREET CRIME SYNDICATE / GOLDMAN SACHS EXPOSED

So why isn't the NYSE renamed the Goldman Sachs Stock Exchange?
Have you an opinion of your own? Or must you C&P what others have to say?
Look, our federal government and the SEC created the rules, the Goldman Sachs of the world played by them. Investing in legitimate vehicles is fine as long as the rules are obeyed. No doubt there was a some pretty shady crap going on. However, to impugn "Wall Street" as the MSM and the current Presidential admin lies to do is pure politics. The politics of class envy. All of this helps the current party in the majority create a straw man in order to help itself maintain political power.
At the end of the day, there is far more legal and above board business going on in the financial world then not.
You people on the Left are always squawking about fairness. However you forget the part that says fairness must apply to all or it means nothing.
BTW, here's a real pisser.
Two days ago I read on CNBC.com that a leading oil analyst for Goldman Sachs set the futures market benchmark crude price at $130 per barrel. He stated that market fundamentals and the economic recovery( HUH?!!!!!) warranted such a price point. He went on to say that oil traders should be prepared for a Bull market in energy. So after several trading days where oil and gas futures fell 20% since May 3rd, the price of oil has jumped from about $96 per barrel to yesterday's close at over $101. Today as of 12:30 EDT oil is off $1.45 at $99.98...The real head scratcher is gasoline is UP by 2 cents, trading at $3.03 per gallon....Oy vay.
Economic recovery.....Read this...News Headlines.
The way I see it is no one really knows what the hell is going to happen 5 minutes from now. We have these wild price shifts in commodities, stocks and other investments based on instantaneous reports and of course, rumors. These shifts exist because there is an incredible amount of money in these markets and everyone in them is looking for an edge.
The volatility of these markets ,especially in oil and gas is what has us consumers pissed off.

 

[Steve Hanson]

Giving people money to live, year after year and then generation after generation is just not the right answer. I'm not talking about people with handicaps or limitations that prevent them from being productive even in limited capacities. I'm talking about able bodied individuals who could be providing a service. Our objective should be to make every capable individual a productive member of society.

A lot of it comes from the fact that it is just simply too expensive to live for lower income families. Inflation has driven he subsitance level way to high. I'm more in favor of utilizing money to revitalize depressed areas by encouraging manufacturing and industry to come in. Tax break incentives. And for keeping cost of living low. I also have no problem with lower income paying no or little taxes. Right now it's a double edge sword. We pay to support them and they pay no taxes. I'd rather see them working, productive and at least eliminate one side of the sword. At the same time we are stimulating our economy, lowering the trade gap and who knows, maybe even intoducing some exportable products

 

[thereisnospoon]

The single minimum wage job I held in the '70s "covered the rent on a brand new one-bedroom apartment with enough left over to maintain a six year old (car)".

In the '70s a new one-bedroom rented for $175 to $200 per month.
Many rent for ten times that much today, at least where I'm living.
During that same time GDP as more than doubled and productivity has increased by 70% yet most of those gains have gone to investors, not labor.

Since I "retired" in 2009 I've even been effectively priced out of single apartments that charge market-based rents, and part-time work was all I was able to find.

I'm not trying to white-wash the many mistakes I've made since the 1970s; however, I'm also not willing to ignore the redistribution of wealth that's taken place during that time either.

What makes you think that anyone should be able to 'live' while maintaining a minimum wage job? They're not supposed to support a family, they're not intended to be a long term solution. They're for young adults who are still at home with Mom and Dad and don't yet need to support themselves on their own. Or for retired people or other people who just want a supplemental income. Just because you could live on minimum wage in the 70's doesn't mean you should be able to now. As you matured, the idea was to better your circumstances and get out of the minimum wage job. It's not the 'rich guy' that's put you in the position you find yourself in now.

If you're suggesting those earning minimum wage should not be able to "live", what's their alternative?

Afghanistan?

When you say minimum wage was not supposed to support a family, how do you explain the claim that "(i)n 1968 the minimum wage served to keep 86% of workers and their families above the poverty line for a family of four."

"Today that percentage has dropped to 64%, in effect leaving 36% of wage earners living at or below the poverty line."

What makes you think anyone working for their living should require food stamps to feed their family?

Minimum Wage Vs a Living Wage

The alternative is precisely what the OP suggested. Minimum wage is a starting point for the younger workers and a means to supplement retirement income for older workers. Let's focus on younger entry level workers.
Min wage workers by and large live at home with their parents. Do not have children and have few bills. Min wage jobs are entry level and unskilled. Min wage jobs are intended to be a stepping stone. Not a career. The intent of minimum wage is to set a floor not a ceiling.
The best way to increase one's wage is to improve their skill set. Other ways are, education or vocational training.
Quite frankly many min wage workers who've been at that level for several years have done little to improve their circumstances. They have made poor choices. They have made babies they financially cannot care for. A decision to have children is a conscious choice. So is spending money one does not have through the use of credit.
This notion that the min wage worker in the US has no choices and is stuck in a rut is simply untrue. There are many alternatives for people who wish to climb out of that rut. It is up to them to take advantage of those opportunities. Bitching and moaning about how through their eyes how unfair the world is, is just that. Bitching and moaning.
As for your case...You have not been "priced out". No one selected you and said. "we're gonna make sure george phillip cannot find a place to live".
Perhaps it is you who has a problem. You want the housing market to accommodate you.
Did you ever consider moving to an area where the housing is more affordable?

 

[georgephillip]

What makes you think that anyone should be able to 'live' while maintaining a minimum wage job? They're not supposed to support a family, they're not intended to be a long term solution. They're for young adults who are still at home with Mom and Dad and don't yet need to support themselves on their own. Or for retired people or other people who just want a supplemental income. Just because you could live on minimum wage in the 70's doesn't mean you should be able to now. As you matured, the idea was to better your circumstances and get out of the minimum wage job. It's not the 'rich guy' that's put you in the position you find yourself in now.

If you're suggesting those earning minimum wage should not be able to "live", what's their alternative?

Afghanistan?

When you say minimum wage was not supposed to support a family, how do you explain the claim that "(i)n 1968 the minimum wage served to keep 86% of workers and their families above the poverty line for a family of four."

"Today that percentage has dropped to 64%, in effect leaving 36% of wage earners living at or below the poverty line."

What makes you think anyone working for their living should require food stamps to feed their family?

Minimum Wage Vs a Living Wage

What's their alternative????? Seriously???? There are literally thousands of opportunities to do whatever you want in this country. All it takes is ambition, drive, willpower and hard work. How the hell do you think those of us making a lot more than minimum wage got to where we are at?? We just had it handed to us?? I've known many people that struggled and worked hard to pull themselves up and have become very successful. Where do you come by this 'poor me, woah is me' attitude? If your only goal in life is to work at McDonalds then that's your choice, and if you can't afford to feed a family when making that choice, then don't have one. If you want the American dream, then work your ass off to get an education so you can get a job that gives you a 'living wage'.

Living wage in Los Angeles is $34.07 an hour.
The minimum wage is $8.00
$9.83 an hour is required to keep a family of four above the poverty level.

Climbers will say capitalism can't exist paying a living wage.
I agree.
Capitalism is a disease, as is socialism and communism.

One possible solution?

Social Credit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Newby]

If you're suggesting those earning minimum wage should not be able to "live", what's their alternative?

Afghanistan?

When you say minimum wage was not supposed to support a family, how do you explain the claim that "(i)n 1968 the minimum wage served to keep 86% of workers and their families above the poverty line for a family of four."

"Today that percentage has dropped to 64%, in effect leaving 36% of wage earners living at or below the poverty line."

What makes you think anyone working for their living should require food stamps to feed their family?

Minimum Wage Vs a Living Wage

What's their alternative????? Seriously???? There are literally thousands of opportunities to do whatever you want in this country. All it takes is ambition, drive, willpower and hard work. How the hell do you think those of us making a lot more than minimum wage got to where we are at?? We just had it handed to us?? I've known many people that struggled and worked hard to pull themselves up and have become very successful. Where do you come by this 'poor me, woah is me' attitude? If your only goal in life is to work at McDonalds then that's your choice, and if you can't afford to feed a family when making that choice, then don't have one. If you want the American dream, then work your ass off to get an education so you can get a job that gives you a 'living wage'.

Living wage in Los Angeles is $34.07 an hour.
The minimum wage is $8.00
$9.83 an hour is required to keep a family of four above the poverty level.

Climbers will say capitalism can't exist paying a living wage.
I agree.
Capitalism is a disease, as is socialism and communism.

One possible solution?

Social Credit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Funny, but most of us don't seem to be having a problem with this. I wonder what the difference is between the people who are doing fine, and the ones that aren't?

 

[georgephillip]

And since 1978 0.01% of Americans have seen their wealth increase by 550%.

Possibly this has had some effect on the cost of things.

America is 234 Years Old Today – Is It Finished? | Phil

Possibly?....And what's with the opinion piece? What one writer with a political agenda has to say, is unimportant.

Are you disputing his statistics?

Do you have any doubt the richest of the rich have seen their share of wealth increase five times since the Gipper went to Washington?

If so, post your sources.

 

[georgephillip]

What's their alternative????? Seriously???? There are literally thousands of opportunities to do whatever you want in this country. All it takes is ambition, drive, willpower and hard work. How the hell do you think those of us making a lot more than minimum wage got to where we are at?? We just had it handed to us?? I've known many people that struggled and worked hard to pull themselves up and have become very successful. Where do you come by this 'poor me, woah is me' attitude? If your only goal in life is to work at McDonalds then that's your choice, and if you can't afford to feed a family when making that choice, then don't have one. If you want the American dream, then work your ass off to get an education so you can get a job that gives you a 'living wage'.

Living wage in Los Angeles is $34.07 an hour.
The minimum wage is $8.00
$9.83 an hour is required to keep a family of four above the poverty level.

Climbers will say capitalism can't exist paying a living wage.
I agree.
Capitalism is a disease, as is socialism and communism.

One possible solution?

Social Credit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Funny, but most of us don't seem to be having a problem with this. I wonder what the difference is between the people who are doing fine, and the ones that aren't?

Define "most".

At one time "most" of the human beings living in Haiti were slaves.

 

[georgephillip]

Please offer up some bits of wisdom as to how it you came up with this conclusion?
Are you actually so hung up on "go to work, get paid and there's no other legitimate way to earn a living"?
Do you believe that doing what one can do to make their savings and investment work for them is somehow evil?
401k's, mutual funds, IRA accounts, Keough accounts, money market funds, all evil?
What about investing in a local business as a silent partner for the express purpose of positive return on investment? Evil?
Did it ever occur to you that most 401k's and mutual funds are invested in Blue Chip stocks such as Exxon/Mobil, Walmart, Coca Cola, Pepsico, AT&T and others?

Fish rot from the head down.

"Greg Gordon, McClatchy News Investigative reporter, reveals how Goldman Sachs didn't tell buyers of 40 Billion in toxic Mortgage securities that it was secretly betting the other way ~ standard fare for a Wall Street crime syndicate that is about to become exposed:

"As I have said for some time, it's an Oligarchy, folks ~ the tyranny of the elites with government and Wall Street ruled by the powerful few ~ and the Obama administration is part of it.

"In other words, Wall Street is the only game in town and it's crooked !

"Ben Bernanke is a stooge for the Oligarchy along with former NY Fed chief and present Sec of the Treasury ~ Tim Geithner. Allen L Roland's Radio Weblog

"Here is Greg Gordon's, McClatchy News, detailed article on how Goldman Sach's scammed the system by selling toxic mortgages that they knew were not being reviewed ~ and then secretly bet the other way with high flying derivatives. http://www.truthout.org/1101095."

WALL STREET CRIME SYNDICATE / GOLDMAN SACHS EXPOSED

So why isn't the NYSE renamed the Goldman Sachs Stock Exchange?
Have you an opinion of your own? Or must you C&P what others have to say?
Look, our federal government and the SEC created the rules, the Goldman Sachs of the world played by them. Investing in legitimate vehicles is fine as long as the rules are obeyed. No doubt there was a some pretty shady crap going on. However, to impugn "Wall Street" as the MSM and the current Presidential admin lies to do is pure politics. The politics of class envy. All of this helps the current party in the majority create a straw man in order to help itself maintain political power.
At the end of the day, there is far more legal and above board business going on in the financial world then not.
You people on the Left are always squawking about fairness. However you forget the part that says fairness must apply to all or it means nothing.
BTW, here's a real pisser.
Two days ago I read on CNBC.com that a leading oil analyst for Goldman Sachs set the futures market benchmark crude price at $130 per barrel. He stated that market fundamentals and the economic recovery( HUH?!!!!!) warranted such a price point. He went on to say that oil traders should be prepared for a Bull market in energy. So after several trading days where oil and gas futures fell 20% since May 3rd, the price of oil has jumped from about $96 per barrel to yesterday's close at over $101. Today as of 12:30 EDT oil is off $1.45 at $99.98...The real head scratcher is gasoline is UP by 2 cents, trading at $3.03 per gallon....Oy vay.
Economic recovery.....Read this...News Headlines.
The way I see it is no one really knows what the hell is going to happen 5 minutes from now. We have these wild price shifts in commodities, stocks and other investments based on instantaneous reports and of course, rumors. These shifts exist because there is an incredible amount of money in these markets and everyone in them is looking for an edge.
The volatility of these markets ,especially in oil and gas is what has us consumers pissed off.

Wall Street (Government Sachs, in particular) captured our federal government long ago.

In a strictly legal sense I suspect they are "playing by the rules"; however, the rules are written by those Wall Street buys and sells the way you and I buy newspapers.

Through financial bubbles, loan pyramids, securities fraud, predatory lending and reverse insurance fraud the FIRE sector has allowed five percent of Americans to nearly double their share of returns to wealth in less than a generation.

For those who are arrogant enough to bring a child into this world, how does that make you feel about what you're leaving behind?

7 Ways to Stop Wall Street's Con Game | Common Dreams

 

[Newby]

What's their alternative????? Seriously???? There are literally thousands of opportunities to do whatever you want in this country. All it takes is ambition, drive, willpower and hard work. How the hell do you think those of us making a lot more than minimum wage got to where we are at?? We just had it handed to us?? I've known many people that struggled and worked hard to pull themselves up and have become very successful. Where do you come by this 'poor me, woah is me' attitude? If your only goal in life is to work at McDonalds then that's your choice, and if you can't afford to feed a family when making that choice, then don't have one. If you want the American dream, then work your ass off to get an education so you can get a job that gives you a 'living wage'.

Living wage in Los Angeles is $34.07 an hour.
The minimum wage is $8.00
$9.83 an hour is required to keep a family of four above the poverty level.

Climbers will say capitalism can't exist paying a living wage.
I agree.
Capitalism is a disease, as is socialism and communism.

One possible solution?

Social Credit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You know, I'd have empathy for you if you had tried everything you possibly could, and still couldn't make higher than minimum wage. But, if you don't make the effort, you have no room to complain in my book, you made the choice to stay where you are by doing nothing to improve your situation. The rich are not keeping you from succeeding and making more than minimum wage, you are. How do you explain everyone out here in the workforce making far more than minimum wage if it isn't possible?

 

[thereisnospoon]

If you're suggesting those earning minimum wage should not be able to "live", what's their alternative?

Afghanistan?

When you say minimum wage was not supposed to support a family, how do you explain the claim that "(i)n 1968 the minimum wage served to keep 86% of workers and their families above the poverty line for a family of four."

"Today that percentage has dropped to 64%, in effect leaving 36% of wage earners living at or below the poverty line."

What makes you think anyone working for their living should require food stamps to feed their family?

Minimum Wage Vs a Living Wage

What's their alternative????? Seriously???? There are literally thousands of opportunities to do whatever you want in this country. All it takes is ambition, drive, willpower and hard work. How the hell do you think those of us making a lot more than minimum wage got to where we are at?? We just had it handed to us?? I've known many people that struggled and worked hard to pull themselves up and have become very successful. Where do you come by this 'poor me, woah is me' attitude? If your only goal in life is to work at McDonalds then that's your choice, and if you can't afford to feed a family when making that choice, then don't have one. If you want the American dream, then work your ass off to get an education so you can get a job that gives you a 'living wage'.

Living wage in Los Angeles is $34.07 an hour.
The minimum wage is $8.00
$9.83 an hour is required to keep a family of four above the poverty level.

Climbers will say capitalism can't exist paying a living wage.
I agree.
Capitalism is a disease, as is socialism and communism.

One possible solution?

Social Credit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

34 bucks an hour? Who are you trying to fool?
For a moment let's say that figure is correct. Ok here are the alternatives. Go back to school and learn something so that someone will hire you for $34 per hour. Or go and improve you skills and do the same. Or do as most others do, move out of the expensive place and to one which better suits one's income level. There is no entitlement to live in a certain area.
Now let's get to the living wage issue.
Is that figure for a family or an individual?
Until you can show a table for the city of LA a living wage for all sorts of family units or an individual, your figure is invalid. It's invalid simply because it suggests the minimum wage for Los Angeles residents should be $34 per hour. Anyone with more than two brain cells working together knows that is impractical.
The bottom line is if it is too expensive to live in one place , you move to where you can afford to live.
Heck I would love to live in a posh neighborhood with a golf course in my back yard, but I can't afford it. Does that mean I go to my employer and demand a "living wage" for that area? Please.
Living wage..A term dreampt up by the politically correct with the goal of extorting more money from business owners

 

[georgephillip]

What's their alternative????? Seriously???? There are literally thousands of opportunities to do whatever you want in this country. All it takes is ambition, drive, willpower and hard work. How the hell do you think those of us making a lot more than minimum wage got to where we are at?? We just had it handed to us?? I've known many people that struggled and worked hard to pull themselves up and have become very successful. Where do you come by this 'poor me, woah is me' attitude? If your only goal in life is to work at McDonalds then that's your choice, and if you can't afford to feed a family when making that choice, then don't have one. If you want the American dream, then work your ass off to get an education so you can get a job that gives you a 'living wage'.

Living wage in Los Angeles is $34.07 an hour.
The minimum wage is $8.00
$9.83 an hour is required to keep a family of four above the poverty level.

Climbers will say capitalism can't exist paying a living wage.
I agree.
Capitalism is a disease, as is socialism and communism.

One possible solution?

Social Credit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You know, I'd have empathy for you if you had tried everything you possibly could, and still couldn't make higher than minimum wage. But, if you don't make the effort, you have no room to complain in my book, you made the choice to stay where you are by doing nothing to improve your situation. The rich are not keeping you from succeeding and making more than minimum wage, you are. How do you explain everyone out here in the workforce making far more than minimum wage if it isn't possible?

Over the past 30 years the rich have not prevented me, or anyone else, from making more than the minimum wage. They have prevented the minimum wage from providing the same standard of living it did in the 1970s.

In spite of GDP doubling and productivity increases of 70% over the last three decades, the richest 1% have used government to redistribute those increases in their favor. This has come at the expense of those like myself who lived fairly comfortably on minimum wage before the Great Divergence began.

My choices had nothing to do with the rich increasing their share of national income and wealth by a factor of three over the past forty years. Government did.

For those of you making far more than the minimum wage I hope a substantial portion of your wealth is held in non-dollar denominated assets. When the Great Divergence widens sufficiently in the US, the richest 1% will come for your standard of living just like they did mine.

 

[georgephillip]

What's their alternative????? Seriously???? There are literally thousands of opportunities to do whatever you want in this country. All it takes is ambition, drive, willpower and hard work. How the hell do you think those of us making a lot more than minimum wage got to where we are at?? We just had it handed to us?? I've known many people that struggled and worked hard to pull themselves up and have become very successful. Where do you come by this 'poor me, woah is me' attitude? If your only goal in life is to work at McDonalds then that's your choice, and if you can't afford to feed a family when making that choice, then don't have one. If you want the American dream, then work your ass off to get an education so you can get a job that gives you a 'living wage'.

Living wage in Los Angeles is $34.07 an hour.
The minimum wage is $8.00
$9.83 an hour is required to keep a family of four above the poverty level.

Climbers will say capitalism can't exist paying a living wage.
I agree.
Capitalism is a disease, as is socialism and communism.

One possible solution?

Social Credit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

34 bucks an hour? Who are you trying to fool?
For a moment let's say that figure is correct. Ok here are the alternatives. Go back to school and learn something so that someone will hire you for $34 per hour. Or go and improve you skills and do the same. Or do as most others do, move out of the expensive place and to one which better suits one's income level. There is no entitlement to live in a certain area.
Now let's get to the living wage issue.
Is that figure for a family or an individual?
Until you can show a table for the city of LA a living wage for all sorts of family units or an individual, your figure is invalid. It's invalid simply because it suggests the minimum wage for Los Angeles residents should be $34 per hour. Anyone with more than two brain cells working together knows that is impractical.
The bottom line is if it is too expensive to live in one place , you move to where you can afford to live.
Heck I would love to live in a posh neighborhood with a golf course in my back yard, but I can't afford it. Does that mean I go to my employer and demand a "living wage" for that area? Please.
Living wage..A term dreampt up by the politically correct with the goal of extorting more money from business owners

That $34 bucks an hour figure does not come from any official source:

"According to the living wage calculator from the Poverty in America website, the typical two parent, two child family forced to live on a minimum wage income puts them closer to the poverty line than middle class. Living wage for this family in an urban area such as Los Angeles is $34.07. The minimum wage is $8.00 and the poverty wage is $9.83."

Minimum Wage Vs a Living Wage

The County of Los Angeles has a much lower number:

"Full time contract employees must be paid a living wage of $9.64 per hour with health benefits of $2.20 per hour or more; or
Full time contract employees must be paid a living wage of $11.84 if health benefits are not provided;

Los Angeles County

"Anyone with more than than two brain cells working together knows that ($34/hour) is impractical" in a capitalist system.

There Are Alternatives.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Living wage in Los Angeles is $34.07 an hour.
The minimum wage is $8.00
$9.83 an hour is required to keep a family of four above the poverty level.

Climbers will say capitalism can't exist paying a living wage.
I agree.
Capitalism is a disease, as is socialism and communism.

One possible solution?

Social Credit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You know, I'd have empathy for you if you had tried everything you possibly could, and still couldn't make higher than minimum wage. But, if you don't make the effort, you have no room to complain in my book, you made the choice to stay where you are by doing nothing to improve your situation. The rich are not keeping you from succeeding and making more than minimum wage, you are. How do you explain everyone out here in the workforce making far more than minimum wage if it isn't possible?

Over the past 30 years the rich have not prevented me, or anyone else, from making more than the minimum wage. They have prevented the minimum wage from providing the same standard of living it did in the 1970s.

In spite of GDP doubling and productivity increases of 70% over the last three decades, the richest 1% have used government to redistribute those increases in their favor. This has come at the expense of those like myself who lived fairly comfortably on minimum wage before the Great Divergence began.

My choices had nothing to do with the rich increasing their share of national income and wealth by a factor of three over the past forty years. Government did.

For those of you making far more than the minimum wage I hope a substantial portion of your wealth is held in non-dollar denominated assets. When the Great Divergence widens sufficiently in the US, the richest 1% will come for your standard of living just like they did mine.

Ok...I will attempt to understand your logic.
The "rich" as you call them, for whatever reason have deliberately held down wages while using their magical powers to push prices upward and "fix" them at high levels just to keep certain things out of the reach of everyone except the "rich".
And this accomplishes what?
One more time. The minimum wage was and never will be intended to support a family or even a single adult. Min wage is a starting point.
Those that stay in min wage jobs do so by choice.
Now...There is no "share of the national income".Wealth is created. There is no pot of wealth made of a finite amount from which we draw our income.
By your logic, because I have acquired certain skills that make me more valuable to employer, my home has increased in value, my IRA has gained in value my variable annuity life insurance policy continues to accrue value that in your world I have taken money from YOU? Is that your logic? Because I had the nerve to find ways to increase my net worth I have "stolen" more than what you believe is my fair share of this so-called "national income"? Because my wife and I have made sound financial decisions and have been able to scrape together a small nest egg for our retirement, we are evil?
DO you have the stones to answer those questions without injecting personal anecdotes?
Have at it. Because I am now challenging your logic. You now must support your claims.OH and don't blow smoke at us by saying you blame government. Yours is a familiar tune. You despise the wealthy. You think because you are not willing to do anything but min wage work that someone owes you a comfortable existence because in your distant memory you believe others did. Oh puhhhhleeeeze.