Which party will actually pay for the new Debt, or will Social Security & Medicare go Bankrupt?

[Andylusion]

Just looked at the above poll results:
1. Totally agree Republicans won't raise taxes, its in their DNA, which is why democrats win about half the time.
2. Totally agree the democrats will raise taxes if they can, but the problem is that they always raise spending more, which is why Republicans win about half the time.
3. SUPRISE?! Half the poll voters think that the pols will let SS & Medicare go bankrupt. WOW, that won't happen.

As if we can just "not let it happen". Math dude. The math shows it will happen. Again... Greece. You yourself pointed out Greece, but Greece is proof that you fail. They increased taxes, and increased taxes, and increased taxes.... and they went broke.

Let me tell you how this will play out, if people like you win the election. It will happen exactly as it did in Greece.

The left-winger will gain control, and promise to fund health care and pensions. They will raise taxes, which will result in economic decline, which will push more people on the pensions, while reducing revenue into the government to pay for pensions.

Knowing that further tax increases will damage the economy, and knowing they promised to fund pensions.....

They simply lie. They'll fudge the numbers, and tell people what they want to hear.

This will continue until there is a crisis.

Then someone on the right-wing will get elected, look at the numbers, and find out absolutely everything is a lie. They will start reforms that could put the country back on track, but the people will hate those reforms, because it means cutting the handouts.

They'll elect another left-wing government, destroy the entire country, and cry on the sidewalk, because their pensions no longer exist.

That is exactly what happened, and exactly what your ideology will lead to.

I already showed you that the US is nothing like Greece. Greece has the economy of a small US city. A GDP of only $293m a year. The US has a massive economy, and a tax rate that is well below EU countries, the US can stand a tax increase without anyone noticing, without all the "weeping and gnashing of teeth" that you describe. Its just an adjustment to get past the "baby boomers", no big deal. SS is about 100-years old and should be good for another hundred with a few "fixes", as long as the democrats don't get in and start their massive spending plans like:
Open borders, tear down the southern border fence/wall
Free college
"Medicare for all", aka rationed healthcare, "Lois Lerner" in charge of your access to healthcare
Promote Globalism, whatever Wall Street wants Wall Street gets, see K-Street Cash
Paris Climate Change Treaty where the US pays $trillions to poor countries
Raise taxes to 70% on the wealthy, especially on corporations so they relocate overseas
Medicare for all means rural hospitals will close
Give $Trillions to Mexico and Central America for a Marshal Plan, but not help US citizens living in tent cities
"Green New Deal" Impose a "carbon tax" to punish anyone who works, heats their home, flies, or has a car
Anti-business democrat socialists caused Amazon to flee NYC taking 25,000 good paying jobs to VA
REPARATIONS to blacks to pay for slavery, $trillions owed by US voters
Full welfare and free healthcare for illegal immigrants
Nationalize all of the electric utilities making them green by 2030
Pass "The New Way Forward Act", bringing back 480,000 deported illegals, giving them free everything

I totally agree with your doomsday "Greece" scenario if the democrats implement their 70% "wealth tax" with all of the $trillions of new "printed" spending outlined above.

I already showed you that the US is nothing like Greece. Greece has the economy of a small US city. A GDP of only $293m a year. The US has a massive economy, and a tax rate that is well below EU countries, the US can stand a tax increase without anyone noticing, without all the "weeping and gnashing of teeth" that you describe. Its just an adjustment to get past the "baby boomers", no big deal.

I disagree. You are acting like our huge massive economy is a given.

It's not a given. We don't a larger economy than Greece, just because "we're special".

We have a better economy than Greece, because we have better economic policies than Greece.

If the US had Greece's economic policies, and the Greece had the US's economic policies, they would be the massive economy, and we'd be in ruins.

You point out we have this huge economy, and we have lower taxes, so we can afford more taxes.

Um.... but it's because we have lower taxes, that we have a huge economy.

Why do you think the economy crashed, when FDR put in place Social Security to begin with? Go look it up.

1937, unemployment spikes back up to 20%.

Notice 1937 to 1939.... Recession in the depression.

What did FDR do in 1936, that caused GDP to fall, and unemployment to spike?

Social Security and the second New Deal.

You want to know why there was more economic growth in the 1800s, than the 1900s? That's why.

The more we move towards socialism, the worse things get.

People complaining that wages are not rising with productivity.... well this is why. I can't pay you the same dollar, that I pay your FICA tax with. So you earn less, so the government can earn more.

You want to know why Social Security has lasted as long as it has? All you have to do is look up the FICA tax numbers.

FICA & SECA Tax Rates

The FICA tax has been increasing every other year, since 1937. Non-stop endless increasing of taxes. Every other year, the tax went up.

At the same time, the full retirement age was 65, and now is 67.

So let's think about that... as I said before, Social Security is a Ponzi scheme.

This alone, is proof of that. Name one other private retirement system, where you pay in more and more over time, in order to get less and less benefits over time?

Never. I've never had my insurance policy say I needed to pay hundreds more, and they are cutting my liability in half.

So if you want to keep Social Security going forever, at least as much as forever means until the country implodes like Greece or the Soviet Union......

Here's how you do it. Real Simple. Keep doing what Social Security has been doing since 1937.

Keep raising the retirement age every single year, and keep raising taxes every single year.

The program will continue until either A: the retirement age is so high, no one lives long enough to get it. B: until the Social Security tax is so high, that it destroys the country.

Those are your options. Either will work. Or combination of both. Just keep raising tax and raising the retirement age until you disqualify enough people from getting Social Security, and taxes take up 30% of our take home pay... and then when you have stolen enough money from people who will never live to get benefits..... Social Security will finally be completely fixed and stable.

 

[Andylusion]

Nope. Medicare will be bankrupt in 2026, so IMHO Medicare is toast.

totally silly!! Medicare is a federal program and the Federal govt can print money. Did you know that??

Is there a limit to how much they can print, yes or no? Are we there yet.....?

No, there isn't a limit.

However, the problem with that solution, is that printing money, causes inflation. Social Security is indexed to inflation.

What that means is, as they print more money, inflation will cause Social Security payouts to increase.

So you end up needing to print even more money, the more money you print. This leads to hyper inflation.

This is exactly what happened Zimbabwe, only with the military being the catalyst. The government didn't have enough money to pay the military, and Mugabe knew that without the military, he would be overthrown.

So he printed money. But as he printed money, the value of the money fell (inflation), and the military demanded more money. So he printed more, which cause more inflation, which caused more demand.

This is very real possible outcome. We could end up paying $50 Million for a chicken.

Meh. The US is no where near Greece, Zimbabwe, or Venezuela....yet.
The US dollar is the worlds currency. If/when the dollar gets replaced, then we are in deep shit.
Does the Fed know what its doing?
Will it ever run off its new Balance Sheet? (it was doing $50b a month before COVID)

The Fed has two directives, full employment, and control inflation to a target of 2%. The Fed will do its job.

Again, you are right. it's not anywhere near those countries.... BECAUSE we have not yet adopted the policies of those countries.... which are the policies you advocating right now.

The Fed has no ability to create employment. Now it can control inflation.... provided you don't print money to pay for $37 Trillion owed to Social Security and Medicare.

Again, it will do it's job, until you demand the impossible. Greece had the same institutions. But the Greek public demanded they pay for all their entitlements.... so the government did what they wanted, and destroyed themselves.

 

[kyzr]

Nope. Medicare will be bankrupt in 2026, so IMHO Medicare is toast.

totally silly!! Medicare is a federal program and the Federal govt can print money. Did you know that??

Is there a limit to how much they can print, yes or no? Are we there yet.....?

No, there isn't a limit.

However, the problem with that solution, is that printing money, causes inflation. Social Security is indexed to inflation.

What that means is, as they print more money, inflation will cause Social Security payouts to increase.

So you end up needing to print even more money, the more money you print. This leads to hyper inflation.

This is exactly what happened Zimbabwe, only with the military being the catalyst. The government didn't have enough money to pay the military, and Mugabe knew that without the military, he would be overthrown.

So he printed money. But as he printed money, the value of the money fell (inflation), and the military demanded more money. So he printed more, which cause more inflation, which caused more demand.

This is very real possible outcome. We could end up paying $50 Million for a chicken.

Meh. The US is no where near Greece, Zimbabwe, or Venezuela....yet.
The US dollar is the worlds currency. If/when the dollar gets replaced, then we are in deep shit.
Does the Fed know what its doing?
Will it ever run off its new Balance Sheet? (it was doing $50b a month before COVID)

The Fed has two directives, full employment, and control inflation to a target of 2%. The Fed will do its job.

Again, you are right. it's not anywhere near those countries.... BECAUSE we have not yet adopted the policies of those countries.... which are the policies you advocating right now.

The Fed has no ability to create employment. Now it can control inflation.... provided you don't print money to pay for $37 Trillion owed to Social Security and Medicare.

Again, it will do it's job, until you demand the impossible. Greece had the same institutions. But the Greek public demanded they pay for all their entitlements.... so the government did what they wanted, and destroyed themselves.

Good discussion, we'll see what happens. We'll know before 2030.

 

[Zorro!]

The House holds the nation's purse strings and the deficit has EXPLODED since Crazy Nancy got the gavel.

Democrats Release New $2.2 Trillion Stimulus Proposal With $417BN In State And Local Aid

Crazy Nancy's Folly.​

With no efforts at compromise, House Democrats released their latest hostage demand of a fresh $2.2 trillion coronavirus relief bill proposal.

Crazy Nancy includes new funding for schools, small businesses, restaurants, performance spaces, airline workers and others.

It's at a price the GOP has already refused. Includes $238 billion for State and $179 billion in Local government that Trump has previously said remains a non-starter.

The latest Democrat proposal has a virtually nil chance of passing.

As for who pays.

Some of it's on the Fed balance sheet, they'll sell it to raise interest rates, to control inflation the next time inflation is an issue.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

With no efforts at compromise, House Democrats released their latest hostage demand of a fresh $2.2 trillion coronavirus relief bill proposal.

Crazy Nancy includes new funding for schools, small businesses, restaurants, performance spaces, airline workers and others.

It's at a price the GOP has already refused. Includes $238 billion for State and $179 billion in Local government that Trump has previously said remains a non-starter.

Then they didn't include Mitch's plan to give liability protection to colleges and businesses where people might catch Covid should they decide to reopen. So of course some businesses will have hesitation to do just that which is what the Democrats want.

 

[Zorro!]

With no efforts at compromise, House Democrats released their latest hostage demand of a fresh $2.2 trillion coronavirus relief bill proposal.

Crazy Nancy includes new funding for schools, small businesses, restaurants, performance spaces, airline workers and others.

It's at a price the GOP has already refused. Includes $238 billion for State and $179 billion in Local government that Trump has previously said remains a non-starter.

Then they didn't include Mitch's plan to give liability protection to colleges and businesses where people might catch Covid should they decide to reopen. So of course some businesses will have hesitation to do just that which is what the Democrats want.

I'm not for that. If businesses can show that they are properly following protocols their current liability policies should be sufficient.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

With no efforts at compromise, House Democrats released their latest hostage demand of a fresh $2.2 trillion coronavirus relief bill proposal.

Crazy Nancy includes new funding for schools, small businesses, restaurants, performance spaces, airline workers and others.

It's at a price the GOP has already refused. Includes $238 billion for State and $179 billion in Local government that Trump has previously said remains a non-starter.

Then they didn't include Mitch's plan to give liability protection to colleges and businesses where people might catch Covid should they decide to reopen. So of course some businesses will have hesitation to do just that which is what the Democrats want.

I'm not for that. If businesses can show that they are properly following protocols their current liability policies should be sufficient.

Yeah, well you know how our justice system is. In many cases it costs more to fight a lawsuit than it does just to pay the damn thing. Piglosi knows that the reason Republicans want to do this is to give more reassurance to businesses who are deciding whether to reopen or stay closed. They want to see more places closed until Biden wins the election which is likely not going to happen.

 

[Zorro!]

With no efforts at compromise, House Democrats released their latest hostage demand of a fresh $2.2 trillion coronavirus relief bill proposal.

Crazy Nancy includes new funding for schools, small businesses, restaurants, performance spaces, airline workers and others.

It's at a price the GOP has already refused. Includes $238 billion for State and $179 billion in Local government that Trump has previously said remains a non-starter.

Then they didn't include Mitch's plan to give liability protection to colleges and businesses where people might catch Covid should they decide to reopen. So of course some businesses will have hesitation to do just that which is what the Democrats want.

I'm not for that. If businesses can show that they are properly following protocols their current liability policies should be sufficient.

Yeah, well you know how our justice system is. In many cases it costs more to fight a lawsuit than it does just to pay the damn thing. Piglosi knows that the reason Republicans want to do this is to give more reassurance to businesses who are deciding whether to reopen or stay closed. They want to see more places closed until Biden wins the election which is likely not going to happen.

I doubt anyone is staying closed because of a lack of legal immunity for COVID being contracted. Essential businesses have been operating the entire time with standard insurance and required protocols and it's worked just fine.