Which Form Of Treason Do You Prefer.

[brainsee]

You apparently don't understand the difference between a recession and a depression. What you mention about stocks was one of the causes of the recession. It didn't become a depression until later, but I guess you're unwilling to listen to the various economists of all persuasions that agree that the tariff caused the worsening of the situation. It's one of the few things that Keynesians and Austrians can agree on.

The repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act was essentially redundant. By the late 90s, the Federal Reserve Board was allowing all sorts of merges between investment and commercial banking.

There are 2 things you can blame the banks for that are independent of government. First, banks were selling CDOs that were leveraging absurd amounts of toxic assets.

Were Collateralized Debt Obligations (CDO) Responsible for the 2008 Financial Crisis?

Collateralized debt obligations are exotic financial instruments that can be hard to understand. Learn the role they played in the 2008 financial crisis.

www.investopedia.com

Second, they were paying off ratings agencies to rate instruments and securities as being higher quality than they actually were.

Credit rating agencies and the subprime crisis - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So, should we regulate CDOs and Credit rating agencies better? Sure. But the question is, how? There's a revolving door between the banking industry and the people who are supposed to regulate it.

This is all a pretty good break away from what this thread was originally about. But seeing as how we are here, let's talk about the great depression. Obviously, it was something quite different from a recession. Stocks back then took a nose dive. And then kept falling from there. Despite the government's attempts to shore it up. From there, what would any tariff do. Cause Americans to buy things made in America. Thereby basically keeping our money here. It may not have been great for other economies. But that was their problem. Still, we went into a depression. The only way out of it for FDR was to start a war. Which he did.

As for the Glass-Stegall act, obviously it wasn't redundant. It was put into place to prevent the same sort of shenanigans that caused the great depression. But it was just another of those regulations that republicans are so fond of repealing to make the wealthy more money. Though from what I was reading, some of the regulations of the Glass-Stegall act were kept in place. But apparently, not enough to keep from screwing things up again.

You also speak of some of the problems that were caused in the 2008 housing fiasco. But to me the biggest problem was in bailing out the banks. Giving those banks the money to buy out other banks. Making themselves "too big to fail." Though you do make an excellent point, One that I have been aware of for a long time. Which is the revolving door between government and big business. I was watching an interview of a politician in Washington once who was honest about it. He said, "There is so much legal graft that goes on in Washington that only a fool would get involved in the illegal kind."

 

[Lone Wanderer]

This is all a pretty good break away from what this thread was originally about. But seeing as how we are here, let's talk about the great depression. Obviously, it was something quite different from a recession. Stocks back then took a nose dive. And then kept falling from there. Despite the government's attempts to shore it up. From there, what would any tariff do. Cause Americans to buy things made in America. Thereby basically keeping our money here. It may not have been great for other economies. But that was their problem. Still, we went into a depression. The only way out of it for FDR was to start a war. Which he did.

As for the Glass-Stegall act, obviously it wasn't redundant. It was put into place to prevent the same sort of shenanigans that caused the great depression. But it was just another of those regulations that republicans are so fond of repealing to make the wealthy more money. Though from what I was reading, some of the regulations of the Glass-Stegall act were kept in place. But apparently, not enough to keep from screwing things up again.

You also speak of some of the problems that were caused in the 2008 housing fiasco. But to me the biggest problem was in bailing out the banks. Giving those banks the money to buy out other banks. Making themselves "too big to fail." Though you do make an excellent point, One that I have been aware of for a long time. Which is the revolving door between government and big business. I was watching an interview of a politician in Washington once who was honest about it. He said, "There is so much legal graft that goes on in Washington that only a fool would get involved in the illegal kind."

The stock market crash of 1929 wasn't that different from past crashes, like the Panic of 1873. In both cases, bank reserves were depleted. The panic was even called the Great Depression until after 1929. But the actual ramifications of the 1929 crash weren't perceived as worse until after the repercussions of the tariff had occurred.

While it is true that WW2 helped pull us out of the Great Depression, it was not the most efficient way to do so, and in the long run, it expanded government (along with the New Deal) to the point that it would become very costly for upkeep.

As I've already pointed out, Glass-Steagall was inconsequential to what eventually happened in 2008.

I do agree with you that bailing out the banks was ridiculous. However, that was a bipartisan problem. Both parties supported the bailouts and continue to do so for banks and various other industries. We even bail out foreign countries, like Ukraine. I'm glad we agree on the corruption issue, but unfortunately, it would seem that we won't be able to vote our way out of that problem.

 

[brainsee]

The stock market crash of 1929 wasn't that different from past crashes, like the Panic of 1873. In both cases, bank reserves were depleted. The panic was even called the Great Depression until after 1929. But the actual ramifications of the 1929 crash weren't perceived as worse until after the repercussions of the tariff had occurred.

While it is true that WW2 helped pull us out of the Great Depression, it was not the most efficient way to do so, and in the long run, it expanded government (along with the New Deal) to the point that it would become very costly for upkeep.

As I've already pointed out, Glass-Steagall was inconsequential to what eventually happened in 2008.

I do agree with you that bailing out the banks was ridiculous. However, that was a bipartisan problem. Both parties supported the bailouts and continue to do so for banks and various other industries. We even bail out foreign countries, like Ukraine. I'm glad we agree on the corruption issue, but unfortunately, it would seem that we won't be able to vote our way out of that problem.

I would suggest that you do what I do. Use your brain to see. What caused the Great Depression was mostly due to the Stock Market crash. What made that one worse than others was that so many of the stocks weren't worth a crap to begin with. And most people lost everything when the stocks went belly up. (And indeed, some people did jump out of windows when they found out about their financial ruin.) So for most there was no money to buy other stocks that they could have fallen back on to some degree. Here is another way to look at many of the stocks back then. The Dutch Tulip Bulb market bubble that collapsed back in the 1600's.

You also speak of a tariff causing troubles. But it simply couldn't do that. What is needed in any depression? Putting people to work. What does a tariff do. Make things bought overseas more expensive. So if you can't buy the things from overseas, you have to buy them here. To buy them here, you need people working here to make those things. Such employment can only soften the impact of any depression.

As for the Glass-Steagall act, it was created for a reason. Obviously repealing it to any degree was a really really bad idea. As the 2008 housing market bubble collapse showed. Also, there is some information about the Great Depression that I think you should see. In the history section I posted a thread called, "History according to a Jew." In it I posted a link to a video called, "How A Jew Became A Nazi." The Great Depression was one of the topics it brought up. Another topic brought up in it was about Napoleon. It was quite a revelation to me. So much so that I had to look it up for myself. What he had to say in the video about Napoleon was true.

 

[Lone Wanderer]

I would suggest that you do what I do. Use your brain to see. What caused the Great Depression was mostly due to the Stock Market crash. What made that one worse than others was that so many of the stocks weren't worth a crap to begin with. And most people lost everything when the stocks went belly up. (And indeed, some people did jump out of windows when they found out about their financial ruin.) So for most there was no money to buy other stocks that they could have fallen back on to some degree. Here is another way to look at many of the stocks back then. The Dutch Tulip Bulb market bubble that collapsed back in the 1600's.

You also speak of a tariff causing troubles. But it simply couldn't do that. What is needed in any depression? Putting people to work. What does a tariff do. Make things bought overseas more expensive. So if you can't buy the things from overseas, you have to buy them here. To buy them here, you need people working here to make those things. Such employment can only soften the impact of any depression.

As for the Glass-Steagall act, it was created for a reason. Obviously repealing it to any degree was a really really bad idea. As the 2008 housing market bubble collapse showed. Also, there is some information about the Great Depression that I think you should see. In the history section I posted a thread called, "History according to a Jew." In it I posted a link to a video called, "How A Jew Became A Nazi." The Great Depression was one of the topics it brought up. Another topic brought up in it was about Napoleon. It was quite a revelation to me. So much so that I had to look it up for myself. What he had to say in the video about Napoleon was true.

The underlying issues of the stock market in general are a different discussion. We could make a whole thread about that.

My point was that the crash itself was not the worst part. It was the government intervention aimed at resolving it that made it worse.

Tariffs only make sense in one context -- when a trading partner implements the same measure or otherwise restricts your products. In certain contexts, they can lead to more domestic jobs, but the reason why the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act failed was because we got a dose of our own medicine. Before that legislation, most of our trading partners were pretty open with us. They didn't impose many restrictions or tariffs on our products. When we initiated our own tariffs, they retaliated with more severe ones. This hurt their own economies somewhat, but it hurt us a lot as well. During the recession, international trade was more important for almost all countries than it even was before the crash. While it is true that we outsourced far less manufacturing at that time than we currently do, we still imported a lot of resources and goods. So no, it did not "soften" the impact of the depression. It caused the depression.

 

[brainsee]

The underlying issues of the stock market in general are a different discussion. We could make a whole thread about that.

My point was that the crash itself was not the worst part. It was the government intervention aimed at resolving it that made it worse.

Tariffs only make sense in one context -- when a trading partner implements the same measure or otherwise restricts your products. In certain contexts, they can lead to more domestic jobs, but the reason why the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act failed was because we got a dose of our own medicine. Before that legislation, most of our trading partners were pretty open with us. They didn't impose many restrictions or tariffs on our products. When we initiated our own tariffs, they retaliated with more severe ones. This hurt their own economies somewhat, but it hurt us a lot as well. During the recession, international trade was more important for almost all countries than it even was before the crash. While it is true that we outsourced far less manufacturing at that time than we currently do, we still imported a lot of resources and goods. So no, it did not "soften" the impact of the depression. It caused the depression.

Were we talking about the stock market crass and the following Great Depression? Yes. So any, "underlying issues" with the stock market aren't a different discussion. It couldn't be any more part of the discussion. You can believe what you want. There apparently is no changing your mind. Are you per chance also a Trump supporter? Trying to change the mind of those people is equally as difficult.

 

[Lone Wanderer]

Were we talking about the stock market crass and the following Great Depression? Yes. So any, "underlying issues" with the stock market aren't a different discussion. It couldn't be any more part of the discussion. You can believe what you want. There apparently is no changing your mind. Are you per chance also a Trump supporter? Trying to change the mind of those people is equally as difficult.

The issues with the stock market I was alluding to are not specific to the Great Depression or even market crashes in general. I'll give an example: speculation on commodities can lead to several problems across the world. Many people viewed the Arab Spring as a consequence of various countries wanting "democracy", but the reality is that it started as a result of grain speculation. In Tunisia, the price of bread rose rather high as a result of grain speculation, to the point that the government couldn't continue to subsidize its price for the public. The repercussions of this involved a lot of angry, hungry people who eventually overthrew the regime. There were other factors involved, but grain speculation ultimately was the straw that broke the camel's back. This had ripple effects in other Arab countries, since they faced similar situations involving food and bread (more specifically).

My argument is that speculative markets for certain commodities are not a net positive for the world or the global economy. They simply lead to suffering and instability.

Yes, I supported Trump, but that is neither here nor there.