Which Child is 'More' American?

[Mustang]

Here's the scenario.

On a particular day, two children are born at the exact same time. One is born Loredo, TX and has an American birth certificate.

The other child is born in Nuevo Loredo, Mexico, and has a Mexican birth certificate (translation: the child does NOT have an American BC).

The child born in America moves overseas to another country with his parents who may, or many not, be American. The other country is irrelevant to the story. The child never travels back to America prior to turning 18, although he's legally entitled to do so.

The Mexican-born child crosses the American border with his parents the next day and is raised in America AS an American without any knowledge that he was born in Mexico.

So, the question is WHICH young person at the age of 18 is really more American? Is it the one with the American BC who was raised in a foreign country. Or is it the foreign born child who was raised as American in America?

Which Child is 'More' American?

Legally? Spiritually? Morally? Ethically? Patriotically?

The question is vague.

What's vague about it? I think it's perfectly straight forward.

Obviously, a person with a BC proving he or she was born inside the US is LEGALLY an American...as in an American citizen. The question is whether or not there's more to being an American than simple geography or legally valid documentation which proves citizenship.

As an example, let's say that tomorrow someone discovers that John Wayne was actually born right across the border in Canada to a Canadian woman who immediately gave him up for adoption, but he was never actually legally adopted. Well, isn't John Wayne the quintessential American in the eyes of millions of people? Would this revelation (no, it's not actually true) make him any less American in the eyes of people?

 

[Mustang]

Here's the scenario.

On a particular day, two children are born at the exact same time. One is born Loredo, TX and has an American birth certificate.

The other child is born in Nuevo Loredo, Mexico, and has a Mexican birth certificate (translation: the child does NOT have an American BC).

The child born in America moves overseas to another country with his parents who may, or many not, be American. The other country is irrelevant to the story. The child never travels back to America prior to turning 18, although he's legally entitled to do so.

The Mexican-born child crosses the American border with his parents the next day and is raised in America AS an American without any knowledge that he was born in Mexico.

So, the question is WHICH young person at the age of 18 is really more American? Is it the one with the American BC who was raised in a foreign country. Or is it the foreign born child who was raised as American in America?

The one with the valid American Birth Certificate. How stupid do you have to be not to know that..

So, the person who was maybe raised in Russia, or Germany, or Argentina, or maybe even China, speaks no English and never has, is the American, right?

But the person who goes to school here for twelve years, plays football in HS, roots for the Boston Red Sox each sprins, is rebuilding a '57 Chevy in his HS shop class, waves the American flag every 4th of July is the foreigner who should be deported?

 

[peach174]

Here's the scenario.

On a particular day, two children are born at the exact same time. One is born Loredo, TX and has an American birth certificate.

The other child is born in Nuevo Loredo, Mexico, and has a Mexican birth certificate (translation: the child does NOT have an American BC).

The child born in America moves overseas to another country with his parents who may, or many not, be American. The other country is irrelevant to the story. The child never travels back to America prior to turning 18, although he's legally entitled to do so.

The Mexican-born child crosses the American border with his parents the next day and is raised in America AS an American without any knowledge that he was born in Mexico.

So, the question is WHICH young person at the age of 18 is really more American? Is it the one with the American BC who was raised in a foreign country. Or is it the foreign born child who was raised as American in America?

The one with the valid American Birth Certificate. How stupid do you have to be not to know that..

So, the person who was maybe raised in Russia, or Germany, or Argentina, or maybe even China, speaks no English and never has, is the American, right?

But the person who goes to school here for twelve years, plays football in HS, roots for the Boston Red Sox each sprins, is rebuilding a '57 Chevy in his HS shop class, waves the American flag every 4th of July is the foreigner who should be deported?

What proof do you have that they are not taught English?
Or even American History?

 

[Amelia]

Here's the scenario.

On a particular day, two children are born at the exact same time. One is born Loredo, TX and has an American birth certificate.

The other child is born in Nuevo Loredo, Mexico, and has a Mexican birth certificate (translation: the child does NOT have an American BC).

The child born in America moves overseas to another country with his parents who may, or many not, be American. The other country is irrelevant to the story. The child never travels back to America prior to turning 18, although he's legally entitled to do so.

The Mexican-born child crosses the American border with his parents the next day and is raised in America AS an American without any knowledge that he was born in Mexico.

So, the question is WHICH young person at the age of 18 is really more American? Is it the one with the American BC who was raised in a foreign country. Or is it the foreign born child who was raised as American in America?

The one with the valid American Birth Certificate. How stupid do you have to be not to know that..

So, the person who was maybe raised in Russia, or Germany, or Argentina, or maybe even China, speaks no English and never has, is the American, right?

But the person who goes to school here for twelve years, plays football in HS, roots for the Boston Red Sox each sprins, is rebuilding a '57 Chevy in his HS shop class, waves the American flag every 4th of July is the foreigner who should be deported?

If he waves the American flag on the 5th of May that might be worth having a look .....

 

[Mustang]

The one with the valid American Birth Certificate. How stupid do you have to be not to know that..

So, the person who was maybe raised in Russia, or Germany, or Argentina, or maybe even China, speaks no English and never has, is the American, right?

But the person who goes to school here for twelve years, plays football in HS, roots for the Boston Red Sox each sprins, is rebuilding a '57 Chevy in his HS shop class, waves the American flag every 4th of July is the foreigner who should be deported?

What proof do you have that they are not taught English?
Or even American History?

You DO understand that this is a hypothetical situation and set of circumstances, don't you?

 

[The T]

According to the laws on the books, its the kid born here, there are illegals sent home everyday who were raised here, as well as immigrants kids from places like Cambodia and Vietnam who get into trouble and because they never got naturalized, they get deported, regardless how long they were here.

By law. Why are latinos any different?

 

[The T]

The Law is the law of the land.
If you were born in any county beside the USA you are not a citizen till you make it legal.
If you don't become naturalized you are a law breaker, you get deported.

If one of your parents is American, you are also one regardless where you are born. US Service men and women have children born overseas all the time in places like Germany and Japan and those kids are American citizens.

Indeed they are. Thier parents are in service to thier country. One notable is John McCain...Panama Canal Zone

 

[The T]

OP? The law is quite clear. Shame too many are ignoring it and are fixated on making illegals voters for partisan purposes.

 

[Amelia]

If you're not a citizen, by definition you are not an American.. and you can't be less of an American than not being one

This thread is hopefully going to get some people to think about what actually constitutes 'being American' as opposed to simply 'being a citizen.'

A person can be made a citizen with either a birth inside our borders or the stroke of a pen. But are those people more fundamentally 'American' (whatever that means) than someone who is actually raised here from infancy even if they don't have the documentation of a BC to make it official.

I have three directions I would want to go with this. Can't make up my mind.


First, I could take it at face value and say that there is something to say for how much our culture defines what it is to be American.

Second, I contrast that with memories of people who have tried to smack conservatives around and called us xenophobic for talking about the importance of trying to assimilate into the culture ... and similar issues. And I wonder if Mustang has ever been part of the trend of calling conservatives xenophobic ...

Third, I'm tempted to be snarky and ask if watching Keeping Up with the Kardashians and dressing like them and so on would make me a Kardashian ....



Being an Anglophile wouldn't make Elizabeth my queen. The legality and the acculturation are both important. Third-culture kids raised abroad have their own problems.

 

[The T]

If you're not a citizen, by definition you are not an American.. and you can't be less of an American than not being one

This thread is hopefully going to get some people to think about what actually constitutes 'being American' as opposed to simply 'being a citizen.'

A person can be made a citizen with either a birth inside our borders or the stroke of a pen. But are those people more fundamentally 'American' (whatever that means) than someone who is actually raised here from infancy even if they don't have the documentation of a BC to make it official.

I have three directions I would want to go with this. Can't make up my mind.


First, I could take it at face value and say that there is something to say for how much our culture defines what it is to being American.

Second, I contrast that with memories of people who have tried to smack conservatives around and called us xenophobic for talking about the importance of trying to assimilate into the culture ... and similar issues. And I wonder if Mustang has ever been part of the trend of calling conservatives xenophobic ...

Third, I'm tempted to be snarky and ask if watching Keeping Up with the Kardashians and dressing like them and so on would make me a Kardashian ....



Being an Anglophile wouldn't make Elizabeth my queen. The legality and the acculturation are both important. Third-culture kids raised abroad have their own problems.

Legality. There you go. What does the law say? That's all that needs to be followed.

 

[Amelia]

This thread is hopefully going to get some people to think about what actually constitutes 'being American' as opposed to simply 'being a citizen.'

A person can be made a citizen with either a birth inside our borders or the stroke of a pen. But are those people more fundamentally 'American' (whatever that means) than someone who is actually raised here from infancy even if they don't have the documentation of a BC to make it official.

I have three directions I would want to go with this. Can't make up my mind.


First, I could take it at face value and say that there is something to say for how much our culture defines what it is to being American.

Second, I contrast that with memories of people who have tried to smack conservatives around and called us xenophobic for talking about the importance of trying to assimilate into the culture ... and similar issues. And I wonder if Mustang has ever been part of the trend of calling conservatives xenophobic ...

Third, I'm tempted to be snarky and ask if watching Keeping Up with the Kardashians and dressing like them and so on would make me a Kardashian ....



Being an Anglophile wouldn't make Elizabeth my queen. The legality and the acculturation are both important. Third-culture kids raised abroad have their own problems.

Legality. There you go. What does the law say? That's all that needs to be followed.

I disagree. Well, I sort of agree but I think there is more to it.

I think legality and culture are both important. For the question of who is an American citizen, legality is what counts. Of course.

But for the question of what it is to be American through and through, culture is very important.





There are some of Mexican descent who are born here and are therefore legally American --- but who get angry and even violent when someone shows up to school with an American flag on Cinco de Mayo.

The legality is covered there but something is very wrong with the acculturation.

 

[The T]

I have three directions I would want to go with this. Can't make up my mind.


First, I could take it at face value and say that there is something to say for how much our culture defines what it is to being American.

Second, I contrast that with memories of people who have tried to smack conservatives around and called us xenophobic for talking about the importance of trying to assimilate into the culture ... and similar issues. And I wonder if Mustang has ever been part of the trend of calling conservatives xenophobic ...

Third, I'm tempted to be snarky and ask if watching Keeping Up with the Kardashians and dressing like them and so on would make me a Kardashian ....



Being an Anglophile wouldn't make Elizabeth my queen. The legality and the acculturation are both important. Third-culture kids raised abroad have their own problems.

Legality. There you go. What does the law say? That's all that needs to be followed.

I disagree. Well, I sort of agree but I think there is more to it.

I think legality and culture are both important. For the question of who is an American citizen, legality is what counts. Of course.

But for the question of what it is to be American through and through, culture is very important.





There are some of Mexican descent who are born here and are therefore legally American --- but who get angry and even violent when someone shows up to school with an American flag on Cinco de Mayo.

The legality is covered there but something is very wrong with the acculturation.

Culture has zero to do with anything. WHAT does the law say?

 

[The T]

We are governed by LAW. Shelve the emotional/cultural stuff. We are a nation of laws, not of men.

 

[rdean]

Here's the scenario.

On a particular day, two children are born at the exact same time. One is born Loredo, TX and has an American birth certificate.

The other child is born in Nuevo Loredo, Mexico, and has a Mexican birth certificate (translation: the child does NOT have an American BC).

The child born in America moves overseas to another country with his parents who may, or many not, be American. The other country is irrelevant to the story. The child never travels back to America prior to turning 18, although he's legally entitled to do so.

The Mexican-born child crosses the American border with his parents the next day and is raised in America AS an American without any knowledge that he was born in Mexico.

So, the question is WHICH young person at the age of 18 is really more American? Is it the one with the American BC who was raised in a foreign country. Or is it the foreign born child who was raised as American in America?

The white child is ALWAYS more American. Ask the Republicans. They'll tell you. Their party is 90% white and they are the most patriotic. Or so they keep saying.

 

[The T]

Here's the scenario.

On a particular day, two children are born at the exact same time. One is born Loredo, TX and has an American birth certificate.

The other child is born in Nuevo Loredo, Mexico, and has a Mexican birth certificate (translation: the child does NOT have an American BC).

The child born in America moves overseas to another country with his parents who may, or many not, be American. The other country is irrelevant to the story. The child never travels back to America prior to turning 18, although he's legally entitled to do so.

The Mexican-born child crosses the American border with his parents the next day and is raised in America AS an American without any knowledge that he was born in Mexico.

So, the question is WHICH young person at the age of 18 is really more American? Is it the one with the American BC who was raised in a foreign country. Or is it the foreign born child who was raised as American in America?

The white child is ALWAYS more American. Ask the Republicans. They'll tell you. Their party is 90% white and they are the most patriotic. Or so they keep saying.

YOU and the OP have to enter into racial tones. Neither of you get it and never will.

 

[rdean]

We are governed by LAW. Shelve the emotional/cultural stuff. We are a nation of laws, not of men.

All laws are created "equal"?

Laws pursue "happiness"?

I know corporations are people. Republicans keep telling us that. But I didn't know we are a nation of laws. I know Republican politicians remove laws. They call it "deregulation". It helped Wall Street. Oh, I get it. Because corporations are people. It all makes sense now.

 

[Amelia]

Culture has zero to do with anything. WHAT does the law say?

Are you saying that there is no American citizen whom you would consider "unAmerican" based on his actions/beliefs/words?

 

[Sunshine]

The Law is the law of the land.
If you were born in any county beside the USA you are not a citizen till you make it legal.
If you don't become naturalized you are a law breaker, you get deported.

I'm not sure you are considering children of American diplomats and service men. They, too, have to go through the American Consulate to get their American citizenship. And if they wait until after they are 18 it is a BIG hassle.

 

[Sunshine]

If you're not a citizen, by definition you are not an American.. and you can't be less of an American than not being one

This thread is hopefully going to get some people to think about what actually constitutes 'being American' as opposed to simply 'being a citizen.'

A person can be made a citizen with either a birth inside our borders or the stroke of a pen. But are those people more fundamentally 'American' (whatever that means) than someone who is actually raised here from infancy even if they don't have the documentation of a BC to make it official.

I don't have to think much about it. The IRS reminds me every Apruil 15.

 

[The T]

Culture has zero to do with anything. WHAT does the law say?

Are you saying that there is no American citizen whom you would consider "unAmerican" based on his actions/beliefs/words?

I am saying that the LAW must be followed. No more no less until the LAW is changed.