Where Were You 40 Years Ago Today?

Madeline

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On May 5, 1970, the National Guard opened fired on student protestors at Kent State University and killed four kids, wounding another eight. Today's Memorial Service on the Kent State campus included eulogies and memories of the dead:

Sandra Scheuer, struck in the neck by an Ohio National Guardsman's bullet, was a girl with a bubbly personality who was always doing things for others, said a note from a friend that's preserved in a scrapbook kept by her sorority, Alpha Xi Delta.

"We think about her every day," said the Kent State chapter's current president, Sarah Franciosa.

Jeffrey Miller was a drummer and a radio DJ whose 5-foot-6 stature earned him the on-air name of "Short Mort," recalled his older brother, Russ.

On the night of the shootings, still unaware that Jeff had been killed, Russ Miller watched TV news reports about Kent State with their grandmother in the Bronx. She asked if Jeff had gone to the rally. "No doubt," Russ Miller answered, knowing his brother's strong feelings against the war. "But I wasn't concerned, because I knew he would keep his head down."

Miller died, shot in the mouth.

Florence Schroeder used a walker to make her way to the stage. "On May 4, 1970, I was 50 years old, with brown hair and good legs," she said. "Today, I'm 90 and can no longer pitch batting practice."

Her son William Knox Schroeder was an Eagle Scout and an honor student who was walking to class when he was shot in the back from a rifle more than a football field's length away. "The death of a child is very hard, but life goes on," his mother said. She read the last line of a poem he wrote: "Learning from the past is a prime consideration."

"I pray we have all learned that lesson," she said.

Allison Krause's long-ago boyfriend, Barry Levine, spoke of a "sweet, intelligent, loving, warm, intelligent, compassionate, creative, funny, giving, intelligent woman - and if I didn't use the word intelligent, forgive me. Allison was as bright as they come.

"She sat on the hill where you now sit," he said. "She walked on those paths where you now stand. Her laughter used to dance through the branches of these trees."

She was shot in the side as Levine pulled her behind a car for shelter from the gunfire. She fell, mortally wounded, in his arms.

Levine, who has rarely spoken publicly about the events of that day, made an impassioned and at times angry appeal for justice for the shootings.

Eight Guardsmen were indicted on federal charges, but a judge dismissed the case. A civil lawsuit was settled without an admission of wrongdoing.
In addition to the four killed, eight more were wounded.

Wounded (and approximate distance from the National Guard):

Joseph Lewis Jr. 71 ft (22 m); hit twice in the right abdomen and left lower leg
John R. Cleary 110 ft (34 m); upper left chest wound
Thomas Mark Grace 225 ft (69 m); struck in left ankle
Alan Michael Canfora 225 ft (69 m); hit in his right wrist
Dean R. Kahler 300 ft (91 m); back wound fracturing the vertebrae - permanently paralyzed from the chest down
Douglas Alan Wrentmore 329 ft (100 m); hit in his right knee
James Dennis Russell 375 ft (114 m); hit in his right thigh from a bullet and in the right forehead by birdshot - both wounds minor (died 2007)
Robert Follis Stamps 495 ft (151 m); hit in his right buttock (died June 11, 2008)
Donald Scott MacKenzie 750 ft (230 m); neck wound

One Guardsman, Sgt. Lawrence Shafer, was wounded badly enough to need medical attention before the Guard opened fire.

Observance of 40th anniversary of Kent State shootings is part political rally, part remembrance | cleveland.com

Kent State shootings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

When I heard the news of the Massacure, I was still in high school but I was already a seasoned protestor. Civil Rights, End the War in Vietnam, Free Soviet Jews, Women's Liberation...you name the social injustice of the era, and I was protesting it. So were all my friends.

I still remember my first thought when I heard:

Oh God. I knew that they were angry at us. But not enough to kill us.

What are your memories of the Kent State Massacure? Or if you are too young, how were you taught to view this event?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xos7-vEWsxg"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xos7-vEWsxg[/ame]





The photographer who took this picture won the Pulitzer prize that year for it.
 
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mudwhistle

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On My 5, 1970, the National Guard opened fired on student protestors at Kent State University and killed four kids. The Memorial service on the campus included memories of the dead:

Sandra Scheuer, struck in the neck by an Ohio National Guardsman's bullet, was a girl with a bubbly personality who was always doing things for others, said a note from a friend that's preserved in a scrapbook kept by her sorority, Alpha Xi Delta.

"We think about her every day," said the Kent State chapter's current president, Sarah Franciosa.

Jeffrey Miller was a drummer and a radio DJ whose 5-foot-6 stature earned him the on-air name of "Short Mort," recalled his older brother, Russ.

On the night of the shootings, still unaware that Jeff had been killed, Russ Miller watched TV news reports about Kent State with their grandmother in the Bronx. She asked if Jeff had gone to the rally. "No doubt," Russ Miller answered, knowing his brother's strong feelings against the war. "But I wasn't concerned, because I knew he would keep his head down."

Miller died, shot in the mouth.

Florence Schroeder used a walker to make her way to the stage. "On May 4, 1970, I was 50 years old, with brown hair and good legs," she said. "Today, I'm 90 and can no longer pitch batting practice."

Her son was an Eagle Scout and an honor student who was walking to class when he was shot in the back from a rifle more than a football field's length away. "The death of a child is very hard, but life goes on," his mother said. She read the last line of a poem he wrote: "Learning from the past is a prime consideration."

"I pray we have all learned that lesson," she said.

Allison Krause's long-ago boyfriend, Barry Levine, spoke of a "sweet, intelligent, loving, warm, intelligent, compassionate, creative, funny, giving, intelligent woman - and if I didn't use the word intelligent, forgive me. Allison was as bright as they come.

"She sat on the hill where you now sit," he said. "She walked on those paths where you now stand. Her laughter used to dance through the branches of these trees."

She was shot in the side as Levine pulled her behind a car for shelter from the gunfire. She fell, mortally wounded, in his arms.

Levine, who has rarely spoken publicly about the events of that day, made an impassioned and at times angry appeal for justice for the shootings.

Eight Guardsmen were indicted on federal charges, but a judge dismissed the case. A civil lawsuit was settled without an admission of wrongdoing.
Observance of 40th anniversary of Kent State shootings is part political rally, part remembrance | cleveland.com

When I heard the news, I was on the campus of my own University, and I was a seasoned protestor. Civil rights, End thhe War in Vietnam, Free Soviet Jews, Women's Liberation...you name the social injustice of the era, and I was protesting it. So were all my friends.

I still remember my first thought when I heard:

O God. I knew that they were angry at us. But not enough to kill us.

So, if you are old enough, where were you?
Put a gun in the hand of someone that's not trained is a bad idea.

National Guardsmen are an accident waiting to happen.
 

mudwhistle

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On My 5, 1970, the National Guard opened fired on student protestors at Kent State University and killed four kids, wounding another eight.. Today's Memorial Service on the Kent State campus included eulogies and memories of the dead:

Sandra Scheuer, struck in the neck by an Ohio National Guardsman's bullet, was a girl with a bubbly personality who was always doing things for others, said a note from a friend that's preserved in a scrapbook kept by her sorority, Alpha Xi Delta.

"We think about her every day," said the Kent State chapter's current president, Sarah Franciosa.

Jeffrey Miller was a drummer and a radio DJ whose 5-foot-6 stature earned him the on-air name of "Short Mort," recalled his older brother, Russ.

On the night of the shootings, still unaware that Jeff had been killed, Russ Miller watched TV news reports about Kent State with their grandmother in the Bronx. She asked if Jeff had gone to the rally. "No doubt," Russ Miller answered, knowing his brother's strong feelings against the war. "But I wasn't concerned, because I knew he would keep his head down."

Miller died, shot in the mouth.

Florence Schroeder used a walker to make her way to the stage. "On May 4, 1970, I was 50 years old, with brown hair and good legs," she said. "Today, I'm 90 and can no longer pitch batting practice."

Her son William Knox Schroeder was an Eagle Scout and an honor student who was walking to class when he was shot in the back from a rifle more than a football field's length away. "The death of a child is very hard, but life goes on," his mother said. She read the last line of a poem he wrote: "Learning from the past is a prime consideration."

"I pray we have all learned that lesson," she said.

Allison Krause's long-ago boyfriend, Barry Levine, spoke of a "sweet, intelligent, loving, warm, intelligent, compassionate, creative, funny, giving, intelligent woman - and if I didn't use the word intelligent, forgive me. Allison was as bright as they come.

"She sat on the hill where you now sit," he said. "She walked on those paths where you now stand. Her laughter used to dance through the branches of these trees."

She was shot in the side as Levine pulled her behind a car for shelter from the gunfire. She fell, mortally wounded, in his arms.

Levine, who has rarely spoken publicly about the events of that day, made an impassioned and at times angry appeal for justice for the shootings.

Eight Guardsmen were indicted on federal charges, but a judge dismissed the case. A civil lawsuit was settled without an admission of wrongdoing.
In addition to the four killed, eight more were wounded.

Wounded (and approximate distance from the National Guard):

Joseph Lewis Jr. 71 ft (22 m); hit twice in the right abdomen and left lower leg
John R. Cleary 110 ft (34 m); upper left chest wound
Thomas Mark Grace 225 ft (69 m); struck in left ankle
Alan Michael Canfora 225 ft (69 m); hit in his right wrist
Dean R. Kahler 300 ft (91 m); back wound fracturing the vertebrae - permanently paralyzed from the chest down
Douglas Alan Wrentmore 329 ft (100 m); hit in his right knee
James Dennis Russell 375 ft (114 m); hit in his right thigh from a bullet and in the right forehead by birdshot - both wounds minor (died 2007)
Robert Follis Stamps 495 ft (151 m); hit in his right buttock (died June 11, 2008)
Donald Scott MacKenzie 750 ft (230 m); neck wound

One Guardsman, Sgt. Lawrence Shafer, was wounded badly enough to need medical attention before the Guard opened fire.

Observance of 40th anniversary of Kent State shootings is part political rally, part remembrance | cleveland.com

Kent State shootings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

When I heard the news of the Massacure, I was still in high school but I was already a seasoned protestor. Civil rights, End the War in Vietnam, Free Soviet Jews, Women's Liberation...you name the social injustice of the era, and I was protesting it. So were all my friends.

I still remember my first thought when I heard:

Oh God. I knew that they were angry at us. But not enough to kill /COLOR]us.

What are your memories of the Kent State Massacure? Or if you are too young, how were you taught to view this event?


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xos7-vEWsxg]YouTube - Crosby, Stills & Nash "Ohio"[/ame]



I read the article.....funny thing is some of those guardsmen had a short-hair wig on because they were civilians serving part-time. They were really just long-hairs being forced to wear a uniform and hold a gun. Probably never fired the damned thing before.
 
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Madeline

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On My 5, 1970, the National Guard opened fired on student protestors at Kent State University and killed four kids. The Memorial service on the campus included memories of the dead:

Sandra Scheuer, struck in the neck by an Ohio National Guardsman's bullet, was a girl with a bubbly personality who was always doing things for others, said a note from a friend that's preserved in a scrapbook kept by her sorority, Alpha Xi Delta.

"We think about her every day," said the Kent State chapter's current president, Sarah Franciosa.

Jeffrey Miller was a drummer and a radio DJ whose 5-foot-6 stature earned him the on-air name of "Short Mort," recalled his older brother, Russ.

On the night of the shootings, still unaware that Jeff had been killed, Russ Miller watched TV news reports about Kent State with their grandmother in the Bronx. She asked if Jeff had gone to the rally. "No doubt," Russ Miller answered, knowing his brother's strong feelings against the war. "But I wasn't concerned, because I knew he would keep his head down."

Miller died, shot in the mouth.

Florence Schroeder used a walker to make her way to the stage. "On May 4, 1970, I was 50 years old, with brown hair and good legs," she said. "Today, I'm 90 and can no longer pitch batting practice."

Her son was an Eagle Scout and an honor student who was walking to class when he was shot in the back from a rifle more than a football field's length away. "The death of a child is very hard, but life goes on," his mother said. She read the last line of a poem he wrote: "Learning from the past is a prime consideration."

"I pray we have all learned that lesson," she said.

Allison Krause's long-ago boyfriend, Barry Levine, spoke of a "sweet, intelligent, loving, warm, intelligent, compassionate, creative, funny, giving, intelligent woman - and if I didn't use the word intelligent, forgive me. Allison was as bright as they come.

"She sat on the hill where you now sit," he said. "She walked on those paths where you now stand. Her laughter used to dance through the branches of these trees."

She was shot in the side as Levine pulled her behind a car for shelter from the gunfire. She fell, mortally wounded, in his arms.

Levine, who has rarely spoken publicly about the events of that day, made an impassioned and at times angry appeal for justice for the shootings.

Eight Guardsmen were indicted on federal charges, but a judge dismissed the case. A civil lawsuit was settled without an admission of wrongdoing.
Observance of 40th anniversary of Kent State shootings is part political rally, part remembrance | cleveland.com

When I heard the news, I was on the campus of my own University, and I was a seasoned protestor. Civil rights, End thhe War in Vietnam, Free Soviet Jews, Women's Liberation...you name the social injustice of the era, and I was protesting it. So were all my friends.

I still remember my first thought when I heard:

O God. I knew that they were angry at us. But not enough to kill us.

So, if you are old enough, where were you?
Put a gun in the hand of someone that's not trained is a bad idea.

National Guardsmen are an accident waiting to happen.
I'd like to see you support this contention -- that Guardsmen lack tactical training -- with factoids. It sure seems odd to me, if you are correct, that they haven't massacred any other Americans in the past FORTY years

Is that what you were taught in school about the Massacure?
 
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mudwhistle

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On My 5, 1970, the National Guard opened fired on student protestors at Kent State University and killed four kids. The Memorial service on the campus included memories of the dead:



Observance of 40th anniversary of Kent State shootings is part political rally, part remembrance | cleveland.com

When I heard the news, I was on the campus of my own University, and I was a seasoned protestor. Civil rights, End thhe War in Vietnam, Free Soviet Jews, Women's Liberation...you name the social injustice of the era, and I was protesting it. So were all my friends.

I still remember my first thought when I heard:

O God. I knew that they were angry at us. But not enough to kill us.

So, if you are old enough, where were you?
Put a gun in the hand of someone that's not trained is a bad idea.

National Guardsmen are an accident waiting to happen.
I'd like to see you support this contention -- that Guardsmen lack tactical training -- with factoids. It sure seems odd to me, if you are correct, that they haven't massacured any other Americans in the past FORTY years

Is that what you were taught in school about the Massacure?
I've trained alot with them throughout my military career.

This was probably just a case of someone who wasn't properly trained.

Give someone a gun that hasn't fired it is bad enough...give someone a gun under those conditions when people are screaming at you and spitting at you...you tend to take it personal not to mention being scared yourself....well you figure it out.

This was not a planned thing.
 

Angelhair

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I was very young and watching this unfold on TV knowing that something very terrible had just happened. Saw the shock of horror on mom's face and knew it was something that was even more terrible than I at my young age could fanthom. I remember mom's comment: 'This will never be the same country again - my heart goes out to their parents'.
 
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Madeline

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Here's the URL for the President's Report on Civil Unrest on Campus:

FG 288 (President's Commission on Campus Unrest)

Because there was no trial of any sort, the truth has alwys been somewhat hidden from view, even though the Guardsmen were given a shoot to kill order immediately before the Massacre. The verbal command was captured in an audio recording:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mid-j9Ki49s]YouTube - KSU Rare Audio Recording from May 4th 1970 - 12:24pm[/ame]

Those of us who opposed the War in Vietnam include many, like myself, who believe the Guardsmen were ordered to shoot to kill the students. There certainly is no other American President as loathsome in my view as Nixon.
 

mudwhistle

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Here's the URL for the President's Report on Civil Unrest on Campus:

FG 288 (President's Commission on Campus Unrest)

Because there was no trial of any sort, the truth has alwys been somewhat hidden from view, even though the Guardsmen were given a shoot to kill order immediately before the Massacre. The verbal command was captured in an audio recording:

YouTube - KSU Rare Audio Recording from May 4th 1970 - 12:24pm

Those of us who opposed the War in Vietnam include many, like myself, who believe the Guardsmen were ordered to shoot to kill the students. There certainly is no other American President as loathsome in my view as Nixon.
My understanding is that the National Guard is under the direction of the Governor of that state.

The President can't order anyone to shoot if he's not in the chain of command.
 

Angelhair

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Yes, why bother....May 4th/5th - it was still a tragedy.
 

Lonestar_logic

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On May 5, 1970, the National Guard opened fired on student protestors at Kent State University and killed four kids, wounding another eight. Today's Memorial Service on the Kent State campus included eulogies and memories of the dead:

Sandra Scheuer, struck in the neck by an Ohio National Guardsman's bullet, was a girl with a bubbly personality who was always doing things for others, said a note from a friend that's preserved in a scrapbook kept by her sorority, Alpha Xi Delta.

"We think about her every day," said the Kent State chapter's current president, Sarah Franciosa.

Jeffrey Miller was a drummer and a radio DJ whose 5-foot-6 stature earned him the on-air name of "Short Mort," recalled his older brother, Russ.

On the night of the shootings, still unaware that Jeff had been killed, Russ Miller watched TV news reports about Kent State with their grandmother in the Bronx. She asked if Jeff had gone to the rally. "No doubt," Russ Miller answered, knowing his brother's strong feelings against the war. "But I wasn't concerned, because I knew he would keep his head down."

Miller died, shot in the mouth.

Florence Schroeder used a walker to make her way to the stage. "On May 4, 1970, I was 50 years old, with brown hair and good legs," she said. "Today, I'm 90 and can no longer pitch batting practice."

Her son William Knox Schroeder was an Eagle Scout and an honor student who was walking to class when he was shot in the back from a rifle more than a football field's length away. "The death of a child is very hard, but life goes on," his mother said. She read the last line of a poem he wrote: "Learning from the past is a prime consideration."

"I pray we have all learned that lesson," she said.

Allison Krause's long-ago boyfriend, Barry Levine, spoke of a "sweet, intelligent, loving, warm, intelligent, compassionate, creative, funny, giving, intelligent woman - and if I didn't use the word intelligent, forgive me. Allison was as bright as they come.

"She sat on the hill where you now sit," he said. "She walked on those paths where you now stand. Her laughter used to dance through the branches of these trees."

She was shot in the side as Levine pulled her behind a car for shelter from the gunfire. She fell, mortally wounded, in his arms.

Levine, who has rarely spoken publicly about the events of that day, made an impassioned and at times angry appeal for justice for the shootings.

Eight Guardsmen were indicted on federal charges, but a judge dismissed the case. A civil lawsuit was settled without an admission of wrongdoing.
In addition to the four killed, eight more were wounded.

Wounded (and approximate distance from the National Guard):

Joseph Lewis Jr. 71 ft (22 m); hit twice in the right abdomen and left lower leg
John R. Cleary 110 ft (34 m); upper left chest wound
Thomas Mark Grace 225 ft (69 m); struck in left ankle
Alan Michael Canfora 225 ft (69 m); hit in his right wrist
Dean R. Kahler 300 ft (91 m); back wound fracturing the vertebrae - permanently paralyzed from the chest down
Douglas Alan Wrentmore 329 ft (100 m); hit in his right knee
James Dennis Russell 375 ft (114 m); hit in his right thigh from a bullet and in the right forehead by birdshot - both wounds minor (died 2007)
Robert Follis Stamps 495 ft (151 m); hit in his right buttock (died June 11, 2008)
Donald Scott MacKenzie 750 ft (230 m); neck wound

One Guardsman, Sgt. Lawrence Shafer, was wounded badly enough to need medical attention before the Guard opened fire.

Observance of 40th anniversary of Kent State shootings is part political rally, part remembrance | cleveland.com

Kent State shootings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

When I heard the news of the Massacure, I was still in high school but I was already a seasoned protestor. Civil Rights, End the War in Vietnam, Free Soviet Jews, Women's Liberation...you name the social injustice of the era, and I was protesting it. So were all my friends.

I still remember my first thought when I heard:

Oh God. I knew that they were angry at us. But not enough to kill us.

What are your memories of the Kent State Massacure? Or if you are too young, how were you taught to view this event?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xos7-vEWsxg]YouTube - Crosby, Stills & Nash "Ohio"[/ame]





The photographer who took this picture won the Pulitzer prize that year for it.
I guess when you start throwing rocks at people you reap what you sow.
 

editec

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I was just starting my training as a Navy corpsman when Kent State happened.
 
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Madeline

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Put a gun in the hand of someone that's not trained is a bad idea.

National Guardsmen are an accident waiting to happen.
I'd like to see you support this contention -- that Guardsmen lack tactical training -- with factoids. It sure seems odd to me, if you are correct, that they haven't massacured any other Americans in the past FORTY years

Is that what you were taught in school about the Massacure?
I've trained alot with them throughout my military career.

This was probably just a case of someone who wasn't properly trained.

Give someone a gun that hasn't fired it is bad enough...give someone a gun under those conditions when people are screaming at you and spitting at you...you tend to take it personal not to mention being scared yourself....well you figure it out.

This was not a planned thing.
mudwhistle, I am not doubting your experience. But many Guardsmen fired into the crowd of protestors -- at once. Were they all panicked or inept? There is ear witness testimony to the command "shoot to kill" having been given. The YouTube video is an interview with a witness who heard the command and audio taped it.

The Massacre took place immediately after Nixon expanded the Vietnam War by invading Cambodia, a thing he had promised during his election campaign he would never do. People like me were incensed that instead of Ending the War, Nixon was taking it to a new level and invading other nations.

Since The Nixon Tapes have been released, we can all agree Nixon was a meglomaniac in the style of Joseph Stalin or Pol Pot. Nixon's evil abuses and crimes while in office are legion.

I don't understand why anyone looking at the Kent State killings objectively would blame the Guardsmen rather than their commanders...including their commander in chief.

Not planned? I believe it was absolutely planned, and that these Guardsmen were ORDERED to murder Americans to serve Nixon's evil agenda. How is The Kent State Massacre less a Human Rights Violation than the killings in Teinemen Square?





 
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Douger

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Riding around Calumet city in a metallic blue dune buggy jamming The Monster.
We had our shotguns with us in case any of the local Nazi.s.....pricks with badges..........were tired of having birthdays.
That and the Panthers were pretty wound up back then.
Nothing has changed much, hast it ?
 
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I recall walking into 10th grade biology class and being told about the shooting from our student-teacher who was finishing up getting his degree from Kent State.
 
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Madeline

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Put a gun in the hand of someone that's not trained is a bad idea.

National Guardsmen are an accident waiting to happen.
I'd like to see you support this contention -- that Guardsmen lack tactical training -- with factoids. It sure seems odd to me, if you are correct, that they haven't massacured any other Americans in the past FORTY years

Is that what you were taught in school about the Massacre?
I've trained alot with them throughout my military career.

This was probably just a case of someone who wasn't properly trained.

Give someone a gun that hasn't fired it is bad enough...give someone a gun under those conditions when people are screaming at you and spitting at you...you tend to take it personal not to mention being scared yourself....well you figure it out.

This was not a planned thing.
mudwhistle, I am not doubting your military experience. But many Guardsmen fired into the crowd of protestors -- at once. Were they all simultaneously panicked or inept? There is ear witness testimony to the command "shoot to kill" having been given to the Guardsmen. The YouTube video in the Op is of an interview with one eye/ear witness who not only says he heard the verbal command -- he audio recorded it and then plays that recording. (Whether every listener hears the same thing is not clear.)

The Massacre took place immediately after Nixon expanded the Vietnam War by invading Cambodia, a thing he had promised during his election campaign he would never do. People like me were incensed that instead of Ending the War, Nixon was taking it to a new level and invading yet more nations.

Since The Nixon Tapes have been released, we can all I agree Nixon was a meglomaniac in the style of Joseph Stalin or Pol Pot. His evil abuses and crimes while in office are legion.

I don't understand why anyone looking at this objectively would blame the Guardsmen rather than their commanders...including their commander in chief.

Not planned? I believe it was planned, and that these Guardsmen were ORDERED to murder Americans to serve Nixon's evil agenda.

 
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Zoom-boing

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I was in in school in the fourth grade and Sister Joseph Salvatore was my teacher. She was terrific. I have no recollection of Kent State. Yes, I was an oblivious child . . . that was terrific too.
 

dilloduck

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I was in in school in the fourth grade and Sister Joseph Salvatore was my teacher. She was terrific. I have no recollection of Kent State. Yes, I was an oblivious child . . . that was terrific too.
oblivious child ?---my how you've maintained you're youth. :lol:
 

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