Where Have All the Russian Trolls Gone?

[Tom Paine 1949]

The March 16 referendum's available choices did not include keeping the status quo of Crimea and Sevastopol as they were at the moment the referendum was held.

That is correct. It also did not include independence. The vote was either to re-establish Crimea’s autonomy within Ukraine (guaranteeing language rights for example) or leaving entirely and joining the Russian Federation.

 

[Deplorable Yankee]

It’s been awhile since I posted in the Europe branches.

Could it be because Russia is being humiliated in Ukraine?

It’s been awhile since I posted in the Europe branches.

Could it be because Russia is being humiliated in Ukraine?

Cause all you progressive fags support democracy in Ukraine


Which is anything but one lol

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Unfortunately, if the Ukraine wins this thing, I fully expect the Russians in the Donbass to be ethnically cleansed like the Serbs were in Croatia and Kosovo.

I think this is an unfortunate reality. The Donbas has been devastated already. From 2014 until the beginning of this year there were already some 13,000 deaths in the two separatist areas, many of them completely innocent civilians.

Since the all-out Russian invasion in February, the fighting and destruction has extended throughout the area and most young men in the two seperatist Republics have been forcibly mobilized to fight, so they and their families are now all considered “enemies” of Ukraine. They will be treated very harshly if Ukraine ever recovers the whole area.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

That is correct. It also did not include independence. The vote was either to re-establish Crimea’s autonomy within Ukraine (guaranteeing language rights for example) or leaving entirely and joining the Russian Federation.

Why weren't the choices, join Russia or no change?

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Why weren't the choices, join Russia or no change?

Why ask me? What is your point here?

If a “no change” alternative was offered, the Western polls indicate it would have done worse than either of the choices provided.

You seem to forget that there had been a forced overthrow of the democratically elected government in Kiev. Rightly or wrongly, that itself inaugurated tremendous “changes” and fears in Crimea and throughout Donbas. “No change” for Crimeans would have meant “No Maidan.”

Finally, the Crimean economy was overwhelmingly dependent on Russian tourism, and most Crimeans felt staying with Ukraine would mean serious attacks on their language rights and economic well-being. They apparently also feared the new Maidan regime would bring them only chaos and civil war.

 

[para bellum]

I am prefer my own plan. Liberating Kharkiv oblast (almost done), taking back the Dnieper western riverbank in Kherson oblast and halt the active fighting.

And leave Russia with the "land bridge" to Crimea? Putin will negotiate in good faith and end his aggression for real this time?

While most of the people who could leave the east in 2014 did leave, that region is Ukraine's industrial heartland- that's your iron ore and gas deposits, the steel mills and heavy manufacturing, etc. Plus the Azov and Black Sea ports. Odessa would always be under threat.

I don't think now is the time to make concessions. Ukraine just delivered to Russia the worst battlefield defeat since WW2. The 1st GTA has been effectively removed from the Russian OOB, fully 50% of the 4th GTD (the most "elite" tank unit) is destroyed. The 6th CAA is scattered to the wind, and the Western Military District has their 3rd Commanding General in a month. The 49th CAA is trapped in Kherson, and all of Kherson Oblast is under UA fire control.

Finish the job. Force the surrender of the 49th, push from Zaporizhzhia to Melitipol and cut the Russian occupation in two pieces. Then see how Putin feels about Ukraine after losing 2 armies and having his Black Sea Fleet at risk.

 

[ESay]

And leave Russia with the "land bridge" to Crimea? Putin will negotiate in good faith and end his aggression for real this time?

While most of the people who could leave the east in 2014 did leave, that region is Ukraine's industrial heartland- that's your iron ore and gas deposits, the steel mills and heavy manufacturing, etc. Plus the Azov and Black Sea ports. Odessa would always be under threat.

I don't think now is the time to make concessions. Ukraine just delivered to Russia the worst battlefield defeat since WW2. The 1st GTA has been effectively removed from the Russian OOB, fully 50% of the 4th GTD (the most "elite" tank unit) is destroyed. The 6th CAA is scattered to the wind, and the Western Military District has their 3rd Commanding General in a month. The 49th CAA is trapped in Kherson, and all of Kherson Oblast is under UA fire control.

Finish the job. Force the surrender of the 49th, push from Zaporizhzhia to Melitipol and cut the Russian occupation in two pieces. Then see how Putin feels about Ukraine after losing 2 armies and having his Black Sea Fleet at risk.

Negotiations with Putin are meaningless. What can guarantee Ukraine's sovereignty is strong army, not his good faith.

To make major offensive in the south and south-east, Ukraine should have a deeply modernised army, with enough artillery systems, new tanks, fighter jets, modern air defence systems.

Pushing Russian troops back over the Dnieper will guarantee Odesa's security.

 

[para bellum]

Negotiations with Putin are meaningless. What can guarantee Ukraine's sovereignty is strong army, not his good faith.

Yes, if your plan is to end active fighting, who is going to agree on the other side?

To make major offensive in the south and south-east, Ukraine should have a deeply modernised army, with enough artillery systems, new tanks, fighter jets, modern air defence systems.

When Russia sees their position is untenable, they leave. Kiev, Snake Is., Kharkiv. They are slow to recognize it, but eventually they figure it out.

The south is open terrain with no forests to hide in. Armor is more vulnerable to artillery, so the UA needs more ADA to take down the Ru drones.

Pushing Russian troops back over the Dnieper will guarantee Odesa's security.

For this year, but you have to stop their ability to reinforce the southern forces from the Donbas and vice versa. Make them take the long way around, and exploit the shortage of tactical trucks.

 

[ESay]

Yes, if your plan is to end active fighting, who is going to agree on the other side

No one. The best 'agreement' is realisation from the other side that future attacks will be futile. Russia won't have any place in security guarantees for Ukraine.

The south is open terrain with no forests to hide in. Armor is more vulnerable to artillery, so the UA needs more ADA to take down the Ru drones

Not only drones. Civil infrastructure all around Ukraine is vulnerable to Russian missile attacks.

For this year, but you have to stop their ability to reinforce the southern forces from the Donbas and vice versa. Make them take the long way around, and exploit the shortage of tactical trucks

The Dnieper is the best natural deterrence from any Russian attack in this area.

 

[g5000]

 

[Augustine_]

It's hilarious you progs actually believe the Ukrainian Nazis are winning against "Putin's Hordes".
Ya'll will spout any nonsense Pravda feeds you.

It's not our fight & IDGAS what happens between these corrupted countries when our own country is imploding.

I don't post about it because I know it is just a distraction for the sheeple that need drama while the reset is taking place behind the scenes.
If brains were gas, you wouldn't have enough to putt around the inside of a Cheerio

It's crazy how badly republicans want Russia to erase Ukraine from existence

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Why ask me? What is your point here?

If a “no change” alternative was offered, the Western polls indicate it would have done worse than either of the choices provided.

You seem to forget that there had been a forced overthrow of the democratically elected government in Kiev. Rightly or wrongly, that itself inaugurated tremendous “changes” and fears in Crimea and throughout Donbas. “No change” for Crimeans would have meant “No Maidan.”

Finally, the Crimean economy was overwhelmingly dependent on Russian tourism, and most Crimeans felt staying with Ukraine would mean serious attacks on their language rights and economic well-being. They apparently also feared the new Maidan regime would bring them only chaos and civil war.

Why ask me? What is your point here?

My point is it was a fake vote with fake choices.
They should hold a new one, with outside observers between

1) Stay with Russia

2) Rejoin Ukraine as before

the Western polls indicate

Of course, why would anyone under Putin's boot distrust a poll taker?

You seem to forget that there had been a forced overthrow of the democratically elected government in Kiev.

Yeah, it's a shame that Putin's puppet got the boot.

They apparently also feared the new Maidan regime would bring them only chaos and civil war.

Not like all the peace and stability of the Putin regime.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

November 2019? LOL!

 

[g5000]

November 2019? LOL!

Tucker Carlson continues propagandizing for Putin to this very day.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Tucker Carlson continues propagandizing for Putin to this very day.

He was rooting for Russia in 2019?

 

[g5000]

He was rooting for Russia in 2019?

You do know Russia has occupied parts of eastern Ukraine for several years, right?

Right?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You do know Russia has occupied parts of eastern Ukraine for several years, right?

Right?

You have any clips of him saying he's rooting for Russia after the date of the invasion?

 

[g5000]

You have any clips of him saying he's rooting for Russia after the date of the invasion?

Tucker Carlson slams Rep. Dan Crenshaw for supporting Ukraine aid, calling him ‘eye patch McCain’

Fox News host takes aim at Crenshaw for his support for sending aid to Ukraine, mocking...

www.houstonchronicle.com

Fox News host Tucker Carlson took aim at Houston Congressman Dan Crenshaw on Monday night for his support of sending aid to Ukraine, calling him “eye patch McCain.”

 

[g5000]

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Tucker Carlson slams Rep. Dan Crenshaw for supporting Ukraine aid, calling him ‘eye patch McCain’

Fox News host takes aim at Crenshaw for his support for sending aid to Ukraine, mocking...

www.houstonchronicle.com

Fox News host Tucker Carlson took aim at Houston Congressman Dan Crenshaw on Monday night for his support of sending aid to Ukraine, calling him “eye patch McCain.”

So no clips of him saying he's rooting for Russia after the date of the invasion?