When you say that the death penalty is cruel, you obviously have no idea what life in prison is like.

[the watcher]

Rasheed Johnson, not happy with his situation, and he probably has some legitimate complaints. When you commit murder at 18 you kind of limit your options and force the rest of the world to figure out what to do with you. Jim Webb who was once the sec Navy and presidential nominee had some real ideas on prison reform but was disgusted with our corrupt system. Confining someone, especially here in the US is almost impossible with the hate being spread by the media and people in charge. There is no nice way to do it. When you think you're saving someone by eliminating the death penalty it's like saying No Nuclear Wars but ignoring how terrible conventional wars actually are. Calls grow for new Red Onion State Prison investigation

 

[Polishprince]

Red Onion is a supermax facility for the tremendous Commonwealth of Virginia. Guys don't get sent there until they fuck up elsewhere in the penal system.

Rasheed has apparently show himself unable to live in a civilized manner, and guys who are just doing their time in less restrictive facilities for mattress tag tearing or other non-violent felonies don't deserve to have him as a cellie.

 

[Meathead]

Rasheed Johnson, not happy with his situation, and he probably has some legitimate complaints. When you commit murder at 18 you kind of limit your options and force the rest of the world to figure out what to do with you. Jim Webb who was once the sec Navy and presidential nominee had some real ideas on prison reform but was disgusted with our corrupt system. Confining someone, especially here in the US is almost impossible with the hate being spread by the media and people in charge. There is no nice way to do it. When you think you're saving someone by eliminating the death penalty it's like saying No Nuclear Wars but ignoring how terrible conventional wars actually are. Calls grow for new Red Onion State Prison investigation

There are those who give society no option but to execute or live in solitary confinement until they die or are disabled to the point they are incapable of harming others, inmates and guards alike.

Red Onion was built excatly with this in mind.

 

[airplanemechanic]

It's not because of how bad things are in prison. I don't support the death penalty because of how final it is. Once you kill someone, that's it. There is no turning back. With the large number of innocent people being taken off of death row exonerated by DNA or other evidence, fuck that shit. I will never support the death penalty.

I cannot understand how a republican can fight so hard for life of a baby but not for an adult. I don't care what they are accused of doing by our gov't. I don't trust our gov't. So I am 100% pro life, because life is precious. They might take a life yes, so take their freedom, not their life. Otherwise you're no different than they are. "You killed someone, so you're a terrible person" but "You killed someone, so we're going to kill you and that makes us a good person" simply doesn't fly in the face of logic.

Self defense is perfectly fine, as you have a right to protect yourself or others. But to summarily execute someone in cold blood strapped down to a table or sitting in a chair or standing against a wall and try to call it "justice", um no.

 

[Meathead]

It's not because of how bad things are in prison. I don't support the death penalty because of how final it is. Once you kill someone, that's it. There is no turning back. With the large number of innocent people being taken off of death row exonerated by DNA or other evidence, fuck that shit. I will never support the death penalty.

I cannot understand how a republican can fight so hard for life of a baby but not for an adult. I don't care what they are accused of doing by our gov't. I don't trust our gov't. So I am 100% pro life, because life is precious. They might take a life yes, so take their freedom, not their life. Otherwise you're no different than they are.

You are comparing the most innocent among us with the most heinous. You yourself referred to the aborted as babies. DNA has helped affirm or cast doubt on convictions of violent crime making convictions more certain.

Furthermore, it is not unusual for prisoners to kill other inmates or guards.

 

[the watcher]

Once you kill someone, that's it. There is no turning back.

Unless you're a liberal and think that if you can somehow "fix" a murderer with your bullshit.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

Rasheed Johnson, not happy with his situation, and he probably has some legitimate complaints. When you commit murder at 18 you kind of limit your options and force the rest of the world to figure out what to do with you. Jim Webb who was once the sec Navy and presidential nominee had some real ideas on prison reform but was disgusted with our corrupt system. Confining someone, especially here in the US is almost impossible with the hate being spread by the media and people in charge. There is no nice way to do it. When you think you're saving someone by eliminating the death penalty it's like saying No Nuclear Wars but ignoring how terrible conventional wars actually are. Calls grow for new Red Onion State Prison investigation

Here's the thing--Prisons, especially the hardest ones, the ones with history--are worlds of their own---and literally anything can happen there--and you can forget things like professionalism or oversight.

It is the Guards vs the Convicts---simple as that.

From the provided link:

Calls grow for new Red Onion State Prison investigation

The state Department of Corrections director has disputed allegations of abuse.

www.vpm.org

There are now multiple online testimonies from people incarcerated at Red Onion State Prison alleging they set themselves on fire to get out of the Wise County facility — citing racism and abuses.

Most are recorded by Prison Radio correspondent Kevin “Rashid” Johnson, who has been incarcerated at Red Onion several times for at least a decade, but will be transferred to another prison as part of a settlement agreement. According to his attorney, Johnson didn’t burn himself but has been reporting on the situation. From Dec. 26, 2023 until March 5, he went on a hunger strike in an attempt to be moved to another facility.

Nemeth said that while at the facility, Johnson faced racialized physical attacks including an assault that involved his dreadlocks being violently torn from his head, retaliation for speaking out about the conditions and refusal of water during his hunger strike — which is all documented in court filings.

She said even though Virginia passed a law that took effect in 2023 restricting the use of solitary confinement, it’s still happening at Red Onion and is part of the reason why people incarcerated there keep attempting to get out of the facility.

The ACLU has filed multiple lawsuits over Red Onion’s use of solitary confinement — and in 2021 reached a settlement agreement involving a Red Onion inmate who was kept in solitary confinement for more than 12 years.

A spokesperson for VADOC told VPM News the facility doesn't have solitary confinement and that “our agency recently participated in an American Correctional Association (ACA) audit, which demonstrates our Restorative Housing Units meet and/or exceed national standards related to time out of cell.”
Dotson has disputed prisoners’ statements about the facility’s conditions but confirmed “six inmates at Red Onion State Prison have burned themselves using improvised devices that were created by tampering with electrical outlets. To be clear, these inmates did not set themselves on fire or self-immolate.”

 

[the watcher]

It is the Guards vs the Convicts---simple as that.

It always will be, but when people skip over that and try to male up unicorn theories about how they want to please everyone it can go bad real fast.

 

[Meathead]

Here's the thing--Prisons, especially the hardest ones, the ones with history--are worlds of their own---and literally anything can happen there--and you can forget things like professionalism or oversight.

It is the Guards vs the Convicts---simple as that.

From the provided link:

Calls grow for new Red Onion State Prison investigation

The state Department of Corrections director has disputed allegations of abuse.

www.vpm.org

There are now multiple online testimonies from people incarcerated at Red Onion State Prison alleging they set themselves on fire to get out of the Wise County facility — citing racism and abuses.

Most are recorded by Prison Radio correspondent Kevin “Rashid” Johnson, who has been incarcerated at Red Onion several times for at least a decade, but will be transferred to another prison as part of a settlement agreement. According to his attorney, Johnson didn’t burn himself but has been reporting on the situation. From Dec. 26, 2023 until March 5, he went on a hunger strike in an attempt to be moved to another facility.

Nemeth said that while at the facility, Johnson faced racialized physical attacks including an assault that involved his dreadlocks being violently torn from his head, retaliation for speaking out about the conditions and refusal of water during his hunger strike — which is all documented in court filings.

She said even though Virginia passed a law that took effect in 2023 restricting the use of solitary confinement, it’s still happening at Red Onion and is part of the reason why people incarcerated there keep attempting to get out of the facility.

The ACLU has filed multiple lawsuits over Red Onion’s use of solitary confinement — and in 2021 reached a settlement agreement involving a Red Onion inmate who was kept in solitary confinement for more than 12 years.

A spokesperson for VADOC told VPM News the facility doesn't have solitary confinement and that “our agency recently participated in an American Correctional Association (ACA) audit, which demonstrates our Restorative Housing Units meet and/or exceed national standards related to time out of cell.”
Dotson has disputed prisoners’ statements about the facility’s conditions but confirmed “six inmates at Red Onion State Prison have burned themselves using improvised devices that were created by tampering with electrical outlets. To be clear, these inmates did not set themselves on fire or self-immolate.”

Unhappy and innocent inmates. I cannot conceive of such a thing.

 

[pknopp]

IMO, no one has the right to take the life of another outside of direct self defense.

 

[EvilEyeFleegle]

Unhappy and innocent inmates. I cannot conceive of such a thing.

Nor can I.

However..there is this difference in philosophy that divides Criminal Justice.

Are inmates in prison as punishment--or are they there to be actively punished?

The more restrictive and 'max' a prison is--the more likely it is that the prison administration and the prison guards will act as though they are there to actively punish the convicts.

This is when abuse occurs.

 

[1srelluc]

"Sitting on The Onion" is no joke....The worst of the worst (Level 5) land there and for damn good reasons.....To land at Red Onion, deserves has everything to do with it. Don't fall for all the jailhouse lawyers and outside "do-gooders" advocating for them.

2/3rds of the convicts there are on 23/1 lockdown. Most of the rest are of a lower security level and transferred in (voluntarily) to cook/clean and stuff like that. Some convicts just like that it's highly controlled and would prefer to do their time at such a facility.

I believe the old Wise Correctional Field Unit (Level 1) provides inmates for grounds work at both Red Onion and Walden's Ridge Super Max prisons as it's sorta between the two. It's been rated as one of the best Virginia prisons to do time at....Very quiet.

A note of interest....Both our Super Max prisons sit on land donated to Virginia by coal companies.

 

[Meathead]

Nor can I.

However..there is this difference in philosophy that divides Criminal Justice.

Are inmates in prison as punishment--or are they there to be actively punished?

The more restrictive and 'max' a prison is--the more likely it is that the prison administration and the prison guards will act as though they are there to actively punish the convicts.

This is when abuse occurs.

There are several levels of incarceration. You have to work your way up (or down) to wind up in places like Red Onion. If prolonged solitary confinement is appropriate for the worst of the worst, so be it. It is not a Hilton hotel.

 

[Woodznutz]

Prosecutors and judges that falsely convict someone should take their place in prison or death row. Only this will reduce false convictions (maybe that's why God commanded it for Israel).

 

[DGS49]

My undergrad was penology (NOT study of the penis, for you Leftists), and much emphasis was placed on the power of "deterrence." But in order for deterrence in society to be meaningful, there must be a general perception that if you do certain crimes, (a) you will be caught, and (b) you will be punished.

So from a deterrence standpoint, we have no death penalty. The chances of any, let's say, mass murderer being caught, tried, convicted of a capital offense, and actually being executed are much lower than the chances of him being struck by lightning while on the toilet. A grandstanding President and several governors publicly scrapping the DP created that situation.

The DP COULD be a deterrent, if the public perception was that it was the likely result of a capital crime, but that bus left the station long ago.

The money wasted on prosecuting these cases for decades through the mandatory procedures and appeals has created the situation where it is actually more cost effective to sentence someone to LWOP - "lock 'em up and throw away the key," so to speak. And abolishing the DP would put an end to the awful picture of pathetic Leftists holding vigils every time a new execution date is announced. It might even harm fundraising for the ACLU.

So kill it.

 

[Woodznutz]

Limit appeals and expedite the death penalty.

Malfeasance and corruption in law enforcement must be severely punished as well. "Oops" by prosecutors and judges won't cut it.

The reason 'deterrence' doesn't work is because the perps don't think they will be caught. Maybe if this factoid was better known.

 

[1srelluc]

I really don't care about the DP either way.

Hell by the time a convict is put to death it's almost a non-event anyway.....Just one less convict on the population board.

There's a shit ton of convicts who were charged with 1st degree murder that pleaded down to second degree.

Oddly enough they were often our "best" convicts.

 

[Woodznutz]

I really don't care about the DP either way.

Hell by the time a convict is put to death it's almost a non-event anyway.....Just one less convict on the population board.

There's a shit ton of convicts who were charged with 1st degree murder that pleaded down to second degree.

Oddly enough they were often our "best" convicts.

Not surprising. Many murderers weren't 'criminals' in the street sense.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

It's not because of how bad things are in prison. I don't support the death penalty because of how final it is. Once you kill someone, that's it. There is no turning back. With the large number of innocent people being taken off of death row exonerated by DNA or other evidence, fuck that shit. I will never support the death penalty.

I cannot understand how a republican can fight so hard for life of a baby but not for an adult. I don't care what they are accused of doing by our gov't. I don't trust our gov't. So I am 100% pro life, because life is precious. They might take a life yes, so take their freedom, not their life. Otherwise you're no different than they are. "You killed someone, so you're a terrible person" but "You killed someone, so we're going to kill you and that makes us a good person" simply doesn't fly in the face of logic.

Self defense is perfectly fine, as you have a right to protect yourself or others. But to summarily execute someone in cold blood strapped down to a table or sitting in a chair or standing against a wall and try to call it "justice", um no.

The death penalty is much like putting down a rabid dog. Because of the enjoyment these killers get, not only of the act itself, but the memories the act creates, they need to be eliminated.

 

[Polishprince]

My undergrad was penology (NOT study of the penis, for you Leftists), and much emphasis was placed on the power of "deterrence." But in order for deterrence in society to be meaningful, there must be a general perception that if you do certain crimes, (a) you will be caught, and (b) you will be punished.

So from a deterrence standpoint, we have no death penalty. The chances of any, let's say, mass murderer being caught, tried, convicted of a capital offense, and actually being executed are much lower than the chances of him being struck by lightning while on the toilet. A grandstanding President and several governors publicly scrapping the DP created that situation.

The DP COULD be a deterrent, if the public perception was that it was the likely result of a capital crime, but that bus left the station long ago.

The money wasted on prosecuting these cases for decades through the mandatory procedures and appeals has created the situation where it is actually more cost effective to sentence someone to LWOP - "lock 'em up and throw away the key," so to speak. And abolishing the DP would put an end to the awful picture of pathetic Leftists holding vigils every time a new execution date is announced. It might even harm fundraising for the ACLU.

So kill it.

The existence of the death penalty gives murderers a motivation to plead guilty and admit they did the crime.

It isn't just the actual seat in the electric chair that inmates are avoiding, but also the many years of solitary that death row inmates endure before taking the hot seat.

Life imprisonment on a yard with interaction with other convicts, playing poker for cigarettes, isn't nearly as bad as solitary.