When This War Is Over - Palestine Will Be Free

[Kruska]

If there was a Palestinian State, it would have defined borders. The Palestinian State would have the legal right to redistribute the Jewish Settlers land.

That's why Netanyahu allowed Hamas to attack on Oct. 7. So that the war would erupt, and any chance of a Palestinian state would be squashed.

Actually both the West-bank and Gaza have defined borders aka the Green Line - also acknowledged by the UN and has been used since 1949 until today - on every single map depicting Israel. Even during Israels "illegal"occupation of the West-bank and Gaza.

As for your comparison with Russia, I don't agree - since the e.g. Ukraine-Russia war wasn't caused via e.g. Ukrainian or Russian immigrants who had e.g. resided for a thousand years in the Americas or in Central Europe and are now trying to grab their respective own land, based on some religious book.

The simple fact is that unlike the PLO recognizing Israel, Israel has refused to recognize an independent Palestine state.

 

[Kruska]

Germany contributed enormously to European culture for centuries so I am not surprised that the German population was shocked. I guess getting too big for your britches is a foregone conclusion. The US is teetering on the brink as we speak and Western Europe is going down the drain with them. The near future will be led by either Russia or China. I hope it won't be China. I admire the Russians but China scares me.

Hmm.. and I admire China - due to a fantastic development of their country, without having resorted towards starting, nor instigating a war since 44 years.

 

[Kruska]

Hey great. Okay I will do as you say. Here are just a few more examples of peaceful Islam not taking over other lands like you say. Enjoy!



View attachment 938720

You are plain dumb and ignorant - see below map of Countries in BLUE and dark Blue- that where subjected towards Christians and their conquering wars.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

STFU Bibi cock sucker!

I say again:

Typical. No facts , just vitriol. That is your calling card, isn't it? You can't win the discussion based on facts, so you resort to name-calling. or simply deflecting using insults.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Actually both the West-bank and Gaza have defined borders aka the Green Line - also acknowledged by the UN and has been used since 1949 until today - on every single map depicting Israel. Even during Israels "illegal"occupation of the West-bank and Gaza.

As for your comparison with Russia, I don't agree - since the e.g. Ukraine-Russia war wasn't caused via e.g. Ukrainian or Russian immigrants who had e.g. resided for a thousand years in the Americas or in Central Europe and are now trying to grab their respective own land, based on some religious book.

The simple fact is that unlike the PLO recognizing Israel, Israel has refused to recognize an independent Palestine state.

Actually both the West-bank and Gaza have defined borders aka the Green Line

Which parties agreed to the Green Line "borders"? When?

 

[BackAgain]

Palestine is a fiction.

 

[Kruska]

(COMMENT)

This is a variation of the informal argument called: "False Impression" → The assumption in this example is that the Arab Palestinians have some sovereignty over the territory. The West Bank was sovereign territory of the Jordanians between April 1950 and July 1988. In July 1988 the Jordanians cut all ties with the sovereign holdings west of the Jordanian River. These lands were under the territorial control of the Israelis between August 1988 and October 1994; when in 1988 the Jordanians abandoned the rights of sovereignty. In 1994, the issue was settled peacefully in the "Treaty of Peace Between the State of Israel and the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan" (Article 3 • International Boundary).

The UN never recognized the occupation of the West-Bank by Jordan) neither does the UN recognize/tolerate the illegal settlement policy of Israel towards the West-Bank nor Gaza. The West-bank also was NEVER sovereign Jordan territory - but Jordan simply took the right to administer it as an "occupied territory". There is and never was an internationally recognized map - depicting the West-Bank to be part of a sovereign Jordan.
In 1988 and 1994 Jordan did not "cut all ties", nor did they abandon any "rights of sovereignty", but RENOUNCED any claim towards the West-bank, and recognized the PLO as the official representatives of the West-bank - unlike Israel.

You are therefore spreading misinformation.

(COMMENT)

Well, this is a half truth. (Misinformation)

It isn't some half-truth nor some misinformation - but simply a FACT.
Israel does not recognize the right of self-determination by the Palestinians in an own Palestinian state.
Therefore the Hamas organization came into existence - that pursues the same goal as the Zionists - whilst the PLO until today recognizes Israel and their right towards self-determination.

You are therefore spreading misinformation.

(COMMENT)

This assumption is (again) inaccurate. I am neither a Zionist or Jewish. I am just a poor old Italian-American trying to make his way in the world.

View attachment 937452
Most Respectfully,
R

You are spreading false information - see above, and your statements are absolutely in line with the very well known Zionist propaganda.
Maybe you are a rich and young Italian American who already made his way through the world.

 

[Shusha]

Actually both the West-bank and Gaza have defined borders aka the Green Line ...

...The West-bank also was NEVER sovereign Jordan territory - but Jordan simply took the right to administer it as an "occupied territory".

Um. Do you realize you are arguing against yourself in these two posts?

The "West Bank" was never sovereign Jordanian territory, yet somehow the occupation of territory by a State with no sovereign claim to that territory created an international boundary between another independent sovereign State and a non-state entity by signing an armistice agreement? Utter nonsense.

 

[Shusha]

Israel does not recognize the right of self-determination by the Palestinians in an own Palestinian state.

I would quibble with this. Israel DOES recognize the right of self-determination for the Arab Palestinians. Israel does not believe that the Arab Palestinians have met the conditions necessary to achieve a State, not the least of which is Article 4.1 of the UN Charter.

 

[GLASNOST]

I think you should just carry on as you like. I'm enjoying watching you step on the same rake over and over again.

Hey great. Okay I will do as you say.

Nice.

Here are just a few more examples ...

 

[MJB12741]

Nice.

Love your brilliant well educated replies.

 

[GLASNOST]

Hmm.. and I admire China - due to a fantastic development of their country, without having resorted towards starting, nor instigating a war since 44 years.

I see, I understand, and I respect your point of view. My problem with China is having seen so many episodes of "Border Security Australia". If the mentality of the Chinese is represented in those creatures then I prefer Russian Rule.

 

[MJB12741]

Let us hope the Palestinians & their supporters continue their hateful, violent protests on our US Universities all across our country. Let all Americans better understand why we will always support Israel.

 

[Kruska]

Um. Do you realize you are arguing against yourself in these two posts?

The "West Bank" was never sovereign Jordanian territory, yet somehow the occupation of territory by a State with no sovereign claim to that territory created an international boundary between another independent sovereign State and a non-state entity by signing an armistice agreement? Utter nonsense.

You are just funny and keep ridiculing yourself, - see your statements in our previous discussions.

FYI - the Green Line was NEVER an international boundary/border till 1967 but simply a UN and war-participants recognized ceasefire line, established and agreed upon in 1949. - and it also beheld partially the previous international boundaries. e.g. Israel and Egypt.

Both Israel and Jordan in regards to the West-Bank, and the Green Line were independent sovereign States in 1949, and not some non-state entity.

Upon Israel kicking off the SIX DAY WAR, the Green Line was recognized on June 4th 1967 as the "international boundary" between Israel and the West-bank and Gaza. - you dolt - and not between Israel and Jordan. Independent of minor adjustments pertaining to the Green Line that beheld the former international recognized border between Israel and Jordan from 1948/9 stretching North and South of the West-Bank, (aka excluding the West-bank territory) between Israel and Jordan in 1988 and 1994.

BTW the in 2002 by Israel instituted Barrier protrudes to 88% into the Green Line aka the international recognized border between Israel and the West-Bank.

As for your other statement in regards to Israel having "supposedly" recognized any right of a sovereign Palestinian state

Israel’s illegal occupation of Palestinian territory, tantamount to ‘settler-colonialism’: UN expert

Israel’s occupation is illegal and indistinguishable from a “settler-colonial” situation, which must end, as a pre-condition for Palestinians to exercise their right to self-determination, the UN’s independent expert on the occupied Palestinian territory said on Thursday.

news.un.org

“For over 55 years, the Israeli military occupation has prevented the realization of the right to self-determination of the Palestinian people, violating each component of that right and willfully pursuing the ‘de-Palestinianisation’ of the occupied territory,” said Francesca Albanese, UN Special Rapporteur on the situation of human rights in the Palestinian Territory occupied since 1967, in her report to the UN General Assembly.

Why do you "think" Hamas attacked Israel in October 2023 ??? Because Israel does NOT accept an independent Palestinian State. But pursues the illegal annexation - settlement of the West-Bank. The moderate PLO does not want to get into an open military confrontation with Israel - but the radical Hamas and it's military faction obviously didn't give a shit on October 7th.

 

[Kruska]

I see, I understand, and I respect your point of view. My problem with China is having seen so many episodes of "Border Security Australia". If the mentality of the Chinese is represented in those creatures then I prefer Russian Rule.

Off course I get your point in regards to e.g. China and Australia - but "subversive political activities" are a common concept executed by all countries on our planet. (Okay AFAIK not by Lichtenstein). Making or inciting wars is still a very different level to me.

 

[GLASNOST]

Let us hope the Palestinians & their supporters continue their hateful, violent protests on our US Universities all across our country. Let all Americans better understand why we will always support Israel.

There is a lesson here that I don't think you understand. Think back to the early 1970s. The reason the Vietnam War ended was because American citizens (including Jane Fonda) were willing to sacrifice their comfort in order to bring peace to their environment .... and even to the world. The Palestinians are right now sacrificing their lives in the Middle East for the same reason. It would be very naïve not to recognize the fact that what is happening there is due in a very great part to what the corrupt US government is doing. EXACTLY as it was regarding Vietnam. It is true that the State of Israel and Zionism are wedged into the centre of the problem (on the surface) but the US is still pulling the strings. So ....... those "hateful, violent protests" as you correctly call them might be necessary in order to frighten American politicians, get them "cold turkey" off the Deep State tit, and spur them into considering justice for the Palestinian people.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You are just funny and keep ridiculing yourself, - see your statements in our previous discussions.

FYI - the Green Line was NEVER an international boundary/border till 1967 but simply a UN and war-participants recognized ceasefire line, established and agreed upon in 1949. - and it also beheld partially the previous international boundaries. e.g. Israel and Egypt.

Both Israel and Jordan in regards to the West-Bank, and the Green Line were independent sovereign States in 1949, and not some non-state entity.

Upon Israel kicking off the SIX DAY WAR, the Green Line was recognized on June 4th 1967 as the "international boundary" between Israel and the West-bank and Gaza. - you dolt - and not between Israel and Jordan. Independent of minor adjustments pertaining to the Green Line that beheld the former international recognized border between Israel and Jordan from 1948/9 stretching North and South of the West-Bank, (aka excluding the West-bank territory) between Israel and Jordan in 1988 and 1994.

BTW the in 2002 by Israel instituted Barrier protrudes to 88% into the Green Line aka the international recognized border between Israel and the West-Bank.

As for your other statement in regards to Israel having "supposedly" recognized any right of a sovereign Palestinian state

Israel’s illegal occupation of Palestinian territory, tantamount to ‘settler-colonialism’: UN expert

Israel’s occupation is illegal and indistinguishable from a “settler-colonial” situation, which must end, as a pre-condition for Palestinians to exercise their right to self-determination, the UN’s independent expert on the occupied Palestinian territory said on Thursday.

news.un.org

“For over 55 years, the Israeli military occupation has prevented the realization of the right to self-determination of the Palestinian people, violating each component of that right and willfully pursuing the ‘de-Palestinianisation’ of the occupied territory,” said Francesca Albanese, UN Special Rapporteur on the situation of human rights in the Palestinian Territory occupied since 1967, in her report to the UN General Assembly.

Why do you "think" Hamas attacked Israel in October 2023 ??? Because Israel does NOT accept an independent Palestinian State. But pursues the illegal annexation - settlement of the West-Bank. The moderate PLO does not want to get into an open military confrontation with Israel - but the radical Hamas and it's military faction obviously didn't give a shit on October 7th.

FYI - the Green Line was NEVER an international boundary/border till 1967 but simply a UN and war-participants recognized ceasefire line

FYI - the Green Line was NEVER an international boundary/border after 1967.

BTW the in 2002 by Israel instituted Barrier protrudes to 88% into the Green Line aka the international recognized border between Israel and the West-Bank.

There is no West-Bank, no border, no Palestine.

 

[GLASNOST]

Off course I get your point in regards to e.g. China and Australia - but "subversive political activities" are a common concept executed by all countries on our planet. (Okay AFAIK not by Lichtenstein). Making or inciting wars is still a very different level to me.

1). I have seen all of the Western Media hype about Russian war-mongering but they contribute no proof and so I believe almost none of it.

2). When Putin speaks, I understand what he is saying. When Putin explains, I understand his logic.

3). I've heard/seen a few speeches by China and if you ask me (one minute later) what they said I won't be able to give you an answer. It's all rhetoric as far as I can tell.

 

[Kruska]

1). I have seen all of the Western Media hype about Russian war-mongering but they contribute no proof and so I believe almost none of it.

True - but that the Russian Federation attacked a sovereign nation in 2014 and 2022 is also a fact.
Even though "justifiable" reasons from the Russian side IMO, can very well be debated about. But maybe it is simply better attributed towards a Russian failure in diplomacy - and that is where China is a numero uno.

If the USA would be able to provoke China's province of Taiwan into declaring independence - I am convinced that China will attack Taiwan. And not like the Russian Federation under Jelzin, just signing it off onto Ukraine. However that China has not attacked anyone since 44 years incl. Taiwan "despite all the provocations by the USA" still remains a fact.

2). When Putin speaks, I understand what he is saying. When Putin explains, I understand his logic.

Goes for me too - but he also happens to speak perfect German

3). I've heard/seen a few speeches by China and if you ask me (one minute later) what they said I won't be able to give you an answer. It's all rhetoric as far as I can tell.

Maybe because you can't speak Chinese ?, and all this translated bull and tales circulated by our Western media - indeed doesn't make sense at all.
If the average income of around US$10 in 1980 now is at around US$ 1200, not to mention the astonishing infrastructure achievements, then the "rhetoric" must have been great.

 

[Shusha]

... the Green Line was NEVER an international boundary/border

I know, right?! Wasn't then, isn't now. Now, why is that?

Both Israel and Jordan in regards to the West-Bank, and the Green Line were independent sovereign States in 1949, and not some non-state entity.

I know, right?! So when discussing events of 1948 and 1967, we have to limit ourselves to only those States that existed, right? We can't just invent something that doesn't exist and pretend it does, right? We can't just pretend a fantastical, future, one-day. maybe, still non-state entity was real in 1967, right? That would be silly.

And yet ... here we go.

...the Green Line was recognized on June 4th 1967 as the "international boundary" between Israel and the West-bank and Gaza.

Wait, didn't you say that the Green Line was NEVER an international boundary/border? But now you are saying it is? Pick a lane.

How is it that in 1967 there is suddenly an international boundary between Israel and some-other-thing-that-is-not-a-State? What treaty, or act of customary law, occurred in 1967 which fundamentally changed the integrity of the territory and the sovereign rights of the relevant States?

- you dolt - and not between Israel and Jordan.

I know, right?! This is my point. YOU are bringing in another (non-state) entity here. Defend your position that this entity came into being 4 June 1967 and held sovereign rights, territory, and political independence.