“When people condemn Zionists, they mean Jews. You’re talking antisemites.”

[JoeB131]

That's not what you said. I'll quote it for you because your memory seems as faulty as your grasp of history:
You wrote, "The Zionists are a bunch of Europeans, who had no interest in moving to Palestine before 1945"

Except that not only are "the Zionists" more than Europeans, but the interest in moving to the region of the mideast well predates 1945 (as shown by the link I provided). So you are wrong. Deal with it.

Nope, they didn't start moving there until Austrian Mustasche Man started killing them.

They were Europeans, not middle Easterners. They spoke a European language, they had European culture.

 

[rosends]

Nope, they didn't start moving there until Austrian Mustasche Man started killing them.

They were Europeans, not middle Easterners. They spoke a European language, they had European culture.

so I show you evidence that you are wrong and you stamp your foot and insist the error anyway?

that's really sad, man. No, really -- I mean, stand down from the internet bluster we project and strip away the false front we hide behind. Underneath, we are all just people, and you sound like you are hurting -- your need to hold on to a belief in the face of clear evidence to the contrary is just really, really sad.

 

[JoeB131]

so I show you evidence that you are wrong and you stamp your foot and insist the error anyway?

You evidence was unconvincing.

Few Jews lived in Palestine prior to the 20th Century.

Most were in no hurry to go there until after they were chased out of Europe by the Nazis and Communists.

 

[rosends]

You evidence was unconvincing.

what evidence are you looking for? I can provide all sorts of resources. Start with this wiki page and follow the references.

Few Jews lived in Palestine prior to the 20th Century.

again, that wasn't your claim. More dancing.

Most were in no hurry to go there until after they were chased out of Europe by the Nazis and Communists.

completely irrelevant. Why add this?

 

[JoeB131]

what evidence are you looking for? I can provide all sorts of resources. Start with this wiki page and follow the references.

again, that wasn't your claim. More dancing.

completely irrelevant. Why add this?

Census data would be nice... but it doesn't exist. The Ottmans and the British kept very good census records.

That is exactly my point. The fundamental lie of Zionism is "A land without a people for a people without a land." Except there were people there, for centuries, and they are pissed off they were displaced.

My point is that the only reason Israel exists is that other Europeans couldn't stand living with the Ashkenazim. (Not just the Germans, even though they were the major instigators)

The ironic thing was that the Sephardic and Mizrahi Jews lived in relative peace in the Islamic World for centuries. They were even valued as scholars and specialists. Then they got driven out because the Ashkenazim stole Palestine.

None of this ends well for anyone.

 

[rosends]

Census data would be nice... but it doesn't exist. The Ottmans and the British kept very good census records.

had you looked at the resource I provided you would have found all sorts of numerical data and other information.

That is exactly my point. The fundamental lie of Zionism is "A land without a people for a people without a land." Except there were people there, for centuries, and they are pissed off they were displaced.

how is that a lie? The land was without a "people" -- there is no claim that it was without people. And which people did you have in mind? When did history start, exactly?

1.2 Zionism is recent history in Palestine

This visual shows the numerous regional and global powers that have ruled over the Jerusalem city/region and its indigenous population over the past 4,000 years. It highlights that, by contrast, the Zionist colonization of Palestine is rooted in very recent history.

101.visualizingpalestine.org

The ironic thing was that the Sephardic and Mizrahi Jews lived in relative peace in the Islamic World for centuries.

"relative peace"...yes, a second class citizen subject to laws and limitations and required to pay a tax for the privilege. Sure, it is better to be oppressed and slaughtered once a month instead of once a week.

They were even valued as scholars and specialists. Then they got driven out because the Ashkenazim stole Palestine.

well, they were driven out in 1492 and if by then Ashkenazim had already "stolen" Palestine, then your claim that Zionists only got interested in Palestine after the Holocaust is proven false!

you just disproved your own claim. That enters into special kind of...well, whatever. Anyway, congrats!

 

[JoeB131]

how is that a lie? The land was without a "people" -- there is no claim that it was without people. And which people did you have in mind? When did history start, exactly?

The point was, there were people there who were dispossessed of their land.

"relative peace"...yes, a second class citizen subject to laws and limitations and required to pay a tax for the privilege. Sure, it is better to be oppressed and slaughtered once a month instead of once a week.

Compared to what Christians were doing to them in Europe, paying a small tax just doesn't seem like that big of a deal.

well, they were driven out in 1492 and if by then Ashkenazim had already "stolen" Palestine, then your claim that Zionists only got interested in Palestine after the Holocaust is proven false!

Um, what the **** are you talking about?

The Sepharadic Jews were driven out of Spain after the Christians finally won. Understandable, they had heavily collaborated with the Muslims while they were there.

But the idea of colonizing Palestine, that was all the Ashkenazim in Central Europe, a bunch of white people who looked at imperialism and said, "Yeah, we need to get in on some of that action." But even then, most of them weren't keen on going no matter how many goodies the British promised them to do so.

Until Toothbrush Mustasche Man came along, anyway.

 

[rosends]

The point was, there were people there who were dispossessed of their land.

the point was that there was no nation on the land. And there wasn't. By misquoting it you turn its meaning into something that suits your agenda but which isn't the meaning of the quote.

Compared to what Christians were doing to them in Europe, paying a small tax just doesn't seem like that big of a deal.

I guess that's easy for someone who never had to live under it to say...

The Dhimmi: Jews and Christians Under Islam - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Um, what the **** are you talking about?

The Sepharadic Jews were driven out of Spain after the Christians finally won. Understandable, they had heavily collaborated with the Muslims while they were there.

But the idea of colonizing Palestine, that was all the Ashkenazim in Central Europe, a bunch of white people who looked at imperialism and said, "Yeah, we need to get in on some of that action." But even then, most of them weren't keen on going no matter how many goodies the British promised them to do so.

Until Toothbrush Mustasche Man came along, anyway.

so you have lost track of your own argument. I'll lay it out for you because you seem unable to see your own stupidity:
post 145, you wrote about Jews in Spain, "Then they got driven out because the Ashkenazim stole Palestine."

Fact -- they were driven out in 1492.

So by your logic, Ashkenazim "stole Palestine" prior to 1492. You have just stated that there were Ashkenazim in "Palestine" in 1492.

So any claim that Ashkenazim weren't interested in the land before 1945 (statements you made in 141 and earlier -- I quoted you directly in post 140, "The Zionists are a bunch of Europeans, who had no interest in moving to Palestine before 1945") must be wrong. You have directly contradicted yourself by 460 years.

You should probably take a break and try to figure out how to reconcile your idiocy so you don't keep proving yourself wrong.

 

[JoeB131]

the point was that there was no nation on the land. And there wasn't. By misquoting it you turn its meaning into something that suits your agenda but which isn't the meaning of the quote.

Except they didn't say "nation", they said "people". The expression is not "A Nation without a people for a people without a Nation".

There were people in Palestine. They had lived there for thousands of years. They rebelled against the Ottomans on the promise that they would get their nation. And then the British and the Zionists screwed them.

so you have lost track of your own argument.

Nope, I know exactly my point and so do you. You just aren't honest enough to admit it.

so you have lost track of your own argument. I'll lay it out for you because you seem unable to see your own stupidity:
post 145, you wrote about Jews in Spain, "Then they got driven out because the Ashkenazim stole Palestine."

I think you need to check your Yiddish to English translator.

 

[rosends]

Except they didn't say "nation", they said "people". The expression is not "A Nation without a people for a people without a Nation".

no, as you quoted, the statement was about "a people" not "people" but if you don't know what "a people" means then I can't help you.

There were people in Palestine. They had lived there for thousands of years. They rebelled against the Ottomans on the promise that they would get their nation. And then the British and the Zionists screwed them.

there were many people and many different groups in charge. The British took over the mandate and the Jews made a country while the Arabs didn't. Feel free to be angry with the British. Strange how I rarely see anyone protesting in front of the English embassy anywhere. Almost like they ignore that the English promised and didn't deliver and just insist on criticizing Israel.

Nope, I know exactly my point and so do you. You just aren't honest enough to admit it.

You know that you disproved yourself and you just won't admit it.

I think you need to check your Yiddish to English translator.

I didn't use any Yiddish. I don't speak Yiddish. Maybe try to face up to your posts and accept that you disproved yourself.

 

[JoeB131]

there were many people and many different groups in charge. The British took over the mandate and the Jews made a country while the Arabs didn't. Feel free to be angry with the British. Strange how I rarely see anyone protesting in front of the English embassy anywhere. Almost like they ignore that the English promised and didn't deliver and just insist on criticizing Israel.

The Brits aren't continuing the error. The Zionists are.

You can go on all day, trying to put a nice spin on the fact you stole their land.

But you stole their land.

That's why they want to kill you.

And it's not America's problem.

 

[Failzero]

Some of the earliest photography ( pre 1850 was Jews in Jerusalem ) and when the Last Crusaders left Jerusalem Jews remained there . And Jews were there in Roman and Greek Eras and the Beginning of the Holy Roman Empire too

 

[rosends]

The Brits aren't continuing the error. The Zionists are.

You mean by existing.

You can go on all day, trying to put a nice spin on the fact you stole their land.

You can keep saying that but it doesn't make it true.

That's why they want to kill you.

That explains all the violence against Jews not in Israel... Brilliant.

And it's not America's problem.

Who said it is? This is an irrelevant claim.

 

[JoeB131]

You mean by existing.

Yes, existing as an apartheid state is continuing the error.

You can keep saying that but it doesn't make it true.

No, the fact they did it makes it true.

That explains all the violence against Jews not in Israel... Brilliant.

Largely exaggerated. 'Whine- They gave me a dirty look when I showed up to class with my yarmulke!"

Who said it is? This is an irrelevant claim.

We are arresting students for protesting Israel. Makes you wonder who runs this country.

 

[rosends]

Yes, existing as an apartheid state is continuing the error.

so you still don't know what "apartheid" means. Got it.

No, the fact they did it makes it true.

But they didn't. All you do is insist, while history and facts laugh at you.

Largely exaggerated. 'Whine- They gave me a dirty look when I showed up to class with my yarmulke!"

And you don't read the news. Understood. This would explain how you would have missed the articles about violence and anti-semitic attacks on Jews and Jewish institutions outside of Israel, and the studies which show a large increase in the numbers.

We are arresting students for protesting Israel. Makes you wonder who runs this country.

Ah, the "Jews control the government" conspiracy theory. I'll update your card.

 

[JoeB131]

so you still don't know what "apartheid" means. Got it.

Oh, I know exactly what it means. If Israel weren't an apartheid state, every Arab (not just the quislings) would have a right to vote. Of course, they'd immediately vote Israel out of existence.

I get the fear, though.

How did Vietnam end? Not because the Vietcong ever won a major battle, but because college students looked at the carnage and said, "Why the hell are we doing that?" and no one could give them a good answer.

Why did Apartheid end in South Africa? because decent people asked why we were supporting that, and "Strategic metals" just wasn't a good enough answer.

So now people are asking, "Why are we supporting Genocide and Apartheid in Gaza", and because you guys don't really have a good answer, your go-to is to arrest student protestors and cut off funds to universities.

But they didn't. All you do is insist, while history and facts laugh at you.

Yes, they did. It always amuses me that you guys are proud of your ability to swindle, but the first to whine when someone brings a case of kick-ass in response.

And you don't read the news. Understood. This would explain how you would have missed the articles about violence and anti-semitic attacks on Jews and Jewish institutions outside of Israel, and the studies which show a large increase in the numbers.

Yes, you have a great skill of wearing out your welcome no matter where you go, but why is this MY problem, exactly?

Ah, the "Jews control the government" conspiracy theory. I'll update your card.

It's not a conspiracy if they do it in the open.

When you have a Turkish doctoral student with no criminal record being arrested in the street because she co-authored an article in a student newspaper criticizing Israel, then it certainly isn't the country I fought for anymore.

"I may hate what you say, but I'll fight to the death for your right to say it."

Not "Well, you said something that offends our Jewish Masters, so we'll kick down your door in the middle of the night and send you off to prison!"

 

[rosends]

Oh, I know exactly what it means. If Israel weren't an apartheid state, every Arab (not just the quislings) would have a right to vote. Of course, they'd immediately vote Israel out of existence.

So the 2 million Arab citizens of Israel are all quislings?

So now people are asking, "Why are we supporting Genocide and Apartheid in Gaza", and because you guys don't really have a good answer, your go-to is to arrest student protestors and cut off funds to universities.

You're kidding, right? Both the words "genocide" and "apartheid" do not apply. You like throwing them around but neither stands up to any scrutiny at all. The most laughable part is when you mention "apartheid in Gaza" which really shows that you have no idea what you are talking about. Are you really saying that there is apartheid in Gaza?

Yes, they did. It always amuses me that you guys are proud of your ability to swindle, but the first to whine when someone brings a case of kick-ass in response.

No, they didn't. It amazes me how you know nothing of history but like to trot out stereotypes and insults. If you spent a fraction of you angry energy learning history and facts, you would see how your entire position is laughable.

Yes, you have a great skill of wearing out your welcome no matter where you go, but why is this MY problem, exactly?

Way to pivot. First claim that there is nothing happening and then blame the Jews for things that happen. Who said it was your problem? You seem to think that the actions of Jews ARE your problem because you keep complaining about them.

It's not a conspiracy if they do it in the open.

So you see the "Jews control the government" as an overt fact? I'll update your card.

When you have a Turkish doctoral student with no criminal record being arrested in the street because she co-authored an article in a student newspaper criticizing Israel, then it certainly isn't the country I fought for anymore.

So leave it. Why does your sense of being uncomfortable with the legal system anyone else's problem?

"I may hate what you say, but I'll fight to the death for your right to say it."

Not "Well, you said something that offends our Jewish Masters, so we'll kick down your door in the middle of the night and send you off to prison!"

you live in a lovely but imaginary world. Have fun with that.

 

[JoeB131]

So the 2 million Arab citizens of Israel are all quislings?

No, most of them are just trying to get by day to day without the Zionists murdering them like they have 50,000 people in Gaza

You're kidding, right? Both the words "genocide" and "apartheid" do not apply. You like throwing them around but neither stands up to any scrutiny at all. The most laughable part is when you mention "apartheid in Gaza" which really shows that you have no idea what you are talking about. Are you really saying that there is apartheid in Gaza?

"Nuh-uh" isn't an argument. Gaza is exactly what the Apartheid regime tried to do in the last days, they declared the most undesirable parts of South Africa as "homelands" for the Zulu and Xhosa.

No, they didn't. It amazes me how you know nothing of history but like to trot out stereotypes and insults. If you spent a fraction of you angry energy learning history and facts, you would see how your entire position is laughable.

Have a degree in history, thanks. I just don't accept the Hollywood version of history where you are the "Good Guys".

Way to pivot. First claim that there is nothing happening and then blame the Jews for things that happen. Who said it was your problem? You seem to think that the actions of Jews ARE your problem because you keep complaining about them.

We are sending billions over there and have been fighting wars there since the 1980s. Um, yeah, it is happening.

So you see the "Jews control the government" as an overt fact? I'll update your card.

Ever here of AIPAC? Can you name another foreign government that has a lobby as powerful as AIPAC?

Imagine if a Chinese lobby had the kind of influence AIPAC has.

So leave it. Why does your sense of being uncomfortable with the legal system anyone else's problem?

Um, something about due process. None of the people being deported or held actually committed any crimes or broken any laws.

you live in a lovely but imaginary world. Have fun with that.

What crime did Mahmoud Khalil break? What law did Rumeysa Ozturk break?

 

[Sayaras]

So the 2 million Arab citizens of Israel are all quislings?




You're kidding, right? Both the words "genocide" and "apartheid" do not apply. You like throwing them around but neither stands up to any scrutiny at all. The most laughable part is when you mention "apartheid in Gaza" which really shows that you have no idea what you are talking about. Are you really saying that there is apartheid in Gaza?

No, they didn't. It amazes me how you know nothing of history but like to trot out stereotypes and insults. If you spent a fraction of you angry energy learning history and facts, you would see how your entire position is laughable.

Way to pivot. First claim that there is nothing happening and then blame the Jews for things that happen. Who said it was your problem? You seem to think that the actions of Jews ARE your problem because you keep complaining about them.

So you see the "Jews control the government" as an overt fact? I'll update your card.

So leave it. Why does your sense of being uncomfortable with the legal system anyone else's problem?

you live in a lovely but imaginary world. Have fun with that.

Because the democratic state of Israel treats Muslims as first class citizens. JEWS need to pose as Muslims so they can approach Temple Mount

Online course teaches Jews how to pose as Muslims and sneak onto Temple Mount

Organizers say they seek to address Israel's decision to continue long-held policy of barring non-Muslims from visiting holy site in final days of Ramadan

www.timesofisrael.com

While Nazi helper Ahmad Shukeiry invented the "apartheid slur" in 1961.

Since 2008 the pallyweid propaganda added the G word too.

 

[JoeB131]

Because the democratic state of Israel treats Muslims as first class citizens. JEWS need to pose as Muslims so they can approach Temple Mount

Right, that's why they've slaughtered 50,000 of them, including 17,000 children.