Zone1 When do you think slavery would have ended in the United States if we had no Civil War.

[Robert W]

Robert W sounds as if he buys the insane DeSantis thesis.

The South did it the wrong was and was executed.

If Tx were to try to secede, Biden would have every right to order the armor units at Ft Hood to roll down to Austin and take back the government.

MPs would arrest the secessionists. Judge Nardotti of the JAG corps would be called out of retirement to try them.

Quit being silly.

I do not blame DeSantis for what the Black scholars did. Why would I?
Well then it was also true that G. W. Washington did it wrong when he shot at the Governments troops and waged war on them for like 8 years.

Biden does not know how to win wars.

 

[Robert W]

Good for you. You obviously needed discipline installed in you. The color of a man's skin did not add or detract from an officer being called sir.

Well using your thinking, Slaves deserved to be slaves and needed the disclipine installed in them. And it is not color my man, it happens that they are blacks, but hell anybody but a white would do.

 

[Robert W]

Distribution of Slaves in United States History
(United States Census Bureau)​

Census Year	# Slaves	# Free blacks	Total black	% free blacks	Total US population	% black of total
1790	697,681	59,527	757,208	7.9%	3,929,214	19%
1800	893,602	108,435	1,002,037	10.8%	5,308,483	19%
1810	1,191,362	186,446	1,377,808	13.5%	7,239,881	19%
1820	1,538,022	233,634	1,771,656	13.2%	9,638,453	18%
1830	2,009,043	319,599	2,328,642	13.7%	12,860,702	18%
1840	2,487,355	386,293	2,873,648	13.4%	17,063,353	17%
1850	3,204,313	434,495	3,638,808	11.9%	23,191,876	16%
1860	3,953,760	488,070	4,441,830	11.0%	31,443,321	14%
1870	0	4,880,009	4,880,009

Distribution of Slaves in United States History

US Slave Totals by State Total Slaves in Each State Facts, US Slavery Percentages Per State Facts, US Slave Slavery Percentage Numbers in Each State, 50 States Total Number Slaves Statistics History

thomaslegioncherokee.tripod.com

You'll note after importation of African slaves was banned, number of black slaves went UP after the Atlantic Slave Trade was abolished. Factors such as breeding (forced or otherwise), and smuggling of slaves still occurred (all the way up to the slave ship Clotilda in 1859). South Carolina was the only state continued the importations after 1808). And inter-state slave trade still occurred.

If the Confederate States had their way, and considering the cost-effectiveness and benefits of having legalized slavery, I could see slavery continuing well into the 20th Century. The main pushback would be if other nations refused to trade or imposed sanctions on the CSA, and pressures from the League of Nations or the subsequent the United Nations.

Then there's the messy revised timeline on how a split United States affects the outcome of the World Wars.

But going back to the Civil War, let's be clear that there was already much bloodshed before the War and before Lincoln was elected President, from the westward expansion of slave vs .free states (see Kansas), to the bloodshed against slavery abolitionists (see Elijah Parish Lovejoy).

Pro-slavery forces had no problem murdering for their unjust and evil cause and no Confederacy revisionist history will undo or justify their "lost cause."

I never argue in favor of slavery. But I do argue that the main body of the politic, should be free to quit states and start their own Government. As did the Southerners.

 

[Robert W]

Robert W sounds as if he buys the insane DeSantis thesis.
end

And what was the insane DeSantis thesis?

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Well using your thinking, Slaves deserved to be slaves and needed the disclipine installed in them. And it is not color my man, it happens that they are blacks, but hell anybody but a white would do.

Fallacy of false equivalency: no logical connection between being slaves or being officers.

I, who grew up and in racist and misogynist settings, learned my errors in the service as I learned that peoples of color and women who served as officers were intrinsically no different than anyone else in terms of humanity and worthiness or lack of it.

 

[Robert W]

Fallacy of false equivalency: no logical connection between being slaves or being officers.

I, who grew up and in racist and misogynist settings, learned my errors in the service as I learned that peoples of color and women who served as officers were intrinsically no different than anyone else in terms of humanity and worthiness or lack of it.

I feel as bad as a commander that sunk a huge Japanese carrier since clearly my message did not hit the target in time.
I never spoke a harsh word about blacks nor military officers. I merely described what happened when I was drafted. And I was there but you were not. After being in the Army, it so happened that later as a Realtor I did sell to and for both current high ranking EM and Officers homes. All were fine people.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

I am glad for you. If I misread your intent, then I apologize. However, I enlisted voluntarily when there still was a draft.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Machines have cost millions of jobs.

And created millions of jobs.

 

[Robert W]

And created millions of jobs.

I am thinking of harvesting corn, shucking it and depositing the seeds into a huge container. This put thousands of workers out of work. The Combine is like magic.

2 people can harvest corn, remove the grain and insert it into a trailer. And one can be female.

 

[Robert W]

I am glad for you. If I misread your intent, then I apologize. However, I enlisted voluntarily when there still was a draft.

I accept the apology. While I did not enlist, I found myself being appointed a leader over a platoon though then I was but a recruit. At that time, at Ft. Ord in CA, they had a massive shortage of Sgts so some of us were pressed into service. And the Sgts assumed the duty as platoon leader. I personally was blessed to constantly impress the Officers and EM so I had it easy. But the rest of the guys did not have it easy. I judge that the guys who enlisted assumed they deserved the crap they were put through.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

I am thinking of harvesting corn, shucking it and depositing the seeds into a huge container. This put thousands of workers out of work. The Combine is like magic.

2 people can harvest corn, remove the grain and insert it into a trailer. And one can be female.

So? The modern world has billion of jobs created by mechanization.

 

[Robert W]

And created millions of jobs.

Yes. But that is not the point during the time of Slavery.

 

[Robert W]

So? The modern world has billion of jobs created by mechanization.

SO???? So you are pleased that millions lost their jobs to mechanization?

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

I accept the apology. While I did not enlist, I found myself being appointed a leader over a platoon though then I was but a recruit. At that time, at Ft. Ord in CA, they had a massive shortage of Sgts so some of us were pressed into service. And the Sgts assumed the duty as platoon leader. I personally was blessed to constantly impress the Officers and EM so I had it easy. But the rest of the guys did not have it easy. I judge that the guys who enlisted assumed they deserved the crap they were put through.

I never thought the infantry was much different in nonsense than HS and college football. But... the drills were there to help us win. The military trained us over and over so that we never got it wrong. Thank heavens.

However, that did not protects us from the Juan Banes who could and did put us through BS nonsense.

It did not always work out that way for the powers that were. We had a big kid who could not keep us mouth shut. One of the drills took him out behind the latrines to teach him a lesson, and the kid did an Enforcer on him. Two other drills jumped in and got the same. They discharged the kid and sent him home.

 

[Failzero]

WW1

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

SO???? So you are pleased that millions lost their jobs to mechanization?

They retrained. And what about the billions of new jobs? You can't win this.,

 

[Robert W]

It would have ended on it's own for financial reasons.
The cotton gin replaced more slaves than than anything else. Cheaper and faster.
Slaves provided free labor, but they were expensive to buy and required rest and food and a staff to provide security for the land owners.
Mechanized equipment would have ended it eventually.

I am not clear this truth got a fair enough attention by the left wingers.

People seem ignorant as to the actual cost of Slaves at the time. Being expensive, it would be difficult to imagine many slaves getting hit. It is counter productive in fact. The Cotton Gin and the Steam Engine revolutionized our nation. And to buy those machines, one had to have plenty of cash.

 

[fncceo]

It might still be legal in Alabama.

I checked, it isn't.

 

[Robert W]

They retrained. And what about the billions of new jobs? You can't win this.,

I owned a machine shop Slow Horses. I know a lot about machines. I made many machines. But the reason to go mechanized is to gain speed and do so with more accuracy than humans do.

 

[fncceo]

SO???? So you are pleased that millions lost their jobs to mechanization?

"My father lost his job to mechanization. The company where he worked for 20 years bought a machine that could do everything my father did, only faster and better. The worst part was, my mother went out and bought one".

-- Woody Allen