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When do "entitlements" go too far?

ShaklesOfBigGov

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I wanted to create a thread that focuses on the subject centered around government "entitlements". The left appears to quickly jump on the band wagon of receiving more government "entitlements", as long as they aren't the ones that have to pay for it. Attempting to cut entitlement spending to balance the budget also seems to create quite an angry stir, just look at the violence that's erupting in Greece for example. There are a few questions that I'd would like to have discussed on this subject.

For those that support government "entitlements" is there a limit to how many entitlements, or how much, an individual ought to receive? Health care, a home, retirement . . . how much is enough?

Is there really a "justification" in having the rich pay for the bill, while others simply receive from the government?

Does it really help an individual towards, or does it enable them from, working to achieve a better way of life for themselves? I came across this article that raised a lot of these questions, about individuals who look to receive what they feel the Federal Government ought to provide.

Man living as an ‘adult baby’ is cleared of Social Security fraud
By Stephen Dinan-The Washington Times
Tuesday, October 18, 2011

The California man who lives part of his life as an “adult baby” and collects Social Security disability payments says the federal agency has cleared him of wrongdoing and will continue sending checks.

Stanley Thornton Jr. now wants an apology from Sen. Tom Coburn, the Oklahoma Republican who called for the benefit review because the investigation disrupted the final months of life for his roommate Sandra Dias, who playacted as his mother, spoon-feeding him and helping him into his baby clothes until her death in July.

“We recently reviewed the evidence in your Social Security disability claim and find that your disability is continuing,” the agency said in an August letter that Mr. Thornton posted on the website he maintains to document his adult baby lifestyle.

Mr. Thornton first gained prominence after he appeared on a reality television show and later after Mr. Coburn asked for the Social Security Administration to investigate him. The lawmaker questioned why he was receiving taxpayer-funded Supplemental Security Income (SSI) payments, commonly called disability checks, given the woodworking skills he demonstrated in May on the National Geographic channel television show “Taboo.”

Dias died July 7, and Mr. Thornton moved out of the apartment they shared. He told The Washington Times they had made payments based on their combined disability checks, which came to about $860 a month for each of them, and he could no longer afford the home on his own.

“My best friend Sandra had to spend the last 3 months of her life being accused of something she didn’t do. Having her family and 3 kids seeing her accused on the nightly news of something she didn’t do,” he wrote in an extensive post explaining the situation on the website he runs at www.BedWettingAB/DL.com for others who play-act as babies, wear diapers or wet their beds.

John Hart, a spokesman for Mr. Coburn, said Tuesday that the senator, who is also a medical doctor, is still puzzled by how “a grown man who is able to design and build adult-sized baby furniture is eligible for disability benefits.”

“Yet, the problem is not with Mr. Thornton, per se, but with the politicians and bureaucrats who have coddled him,” Mr. Hart said. “Disability fraud effectively steals from those who are truly disabled, while weakening the economy for everyone.”

Man living as an 'adult baby' is cleared of Social Security fraud - Washington Times
 
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ShaklesOfBigGov

ShaklesOfBigGov

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Why do liberals desire to see huge cuts in military spending, but don't want to see any government entitlements like social security touched or reformed into personal investment accounts? If the national debt and spending MUST be reduced, we must look at entitlements like social security. We can't continue to add government entitlements, like government healthcare, without adding to an even larger national debt that we simply can not afford. To have the Rich pay for the American Jobs Act, and the National Debt, and Health Care, and any loss in Social Security will not be enough. Eventually Democrats will have to pass that bill down to the middle class in the form of increased taxes.
 
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Lakhota

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Why do liberals desire to see huge cuts in military spending cut, but don't want to see any government entitlements like social security touched or reformed into personal investment accounts? If the national debt and spending must be reduced, we must look at entitlements like social security.

Workers didn't contribute to defense/military like they paid into Social Security and Medicare their entire working lives via payroll taxes. So how can they be compared for spending cuts?
 

ClosedCaption

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Al Gore wanted a lock box and was mocked for it.

I think we should be like other industrialized nations and have free healthcare as well as education. A home? No one is suggesting that at all.

If welfare makes one lazy then Israel has to be the laziest of all, but that reasoning doesnt sit well with the Republican worship of Israel.

I believe if you give a man a crutch that doesnt mean he loses the will to walk, it's temporary. Some people are ok with using a crutch for the rest of their lives but that is the exception, not the rule. For some reason tho, repubs like to point at the exceptions as proof of widespread abuse. I.E. voter fraud, welfare drug testing, using abortion as birth control etc.
 
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ShaklesOfBigGov

ShaklesOfBigGov

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Why do liberals desire to see huge cuts in military spending cut, but don't want to see any government entitlements like social security touched or reformed into personal investment accounts? If the national debt and spending must be reduced, we must look at entitlements like social security.

Workers didn't contribute to defense/military like they paid into Social Security and Medicare their entire working lives via payroll taxes. So how can they be compared for spending cuts?

Why are Americans forced into programs like social security by the government? Each generation that enters the work force don't believe that social security will be there when they get older. The Federal Government only seems to offer a "band-aid" (like raising the retirement age in hopes fewer people will be able to collect) and no real solutions in making sure there are enough funds to support those that reach retirement. I'd rather support private retirement accounts. I know I can do a lot better at planning my retirement than the Federal Government.
 
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Soggy in NOLA

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Why do liberals desire to see huge cuts in military spending cut, but don't want to see any government entitlements like social security touched or reformed into personal investment accounts? If the national debt and spending must be reduced, we must look at entitlements like social security.

Workers didn't contribute to defense/military like they paid into Social Security and Medicare their entire working lives via payroll taxes. So how can they be compared for spending cuts?

If you pay income taxes, you contribute to defense.... oh wait....

Never mind.

:lol:
 

Rozman

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Al Gore wanted a lock box and was mocked for it.

I think we should be like other industrialized nations and have free healthcare as well as education. A home? No one is suggesting that at all.

If welfare makes one lazy then Israel has to be the laziest of all, but that reasoning doesnt sit well with the Republican worship of Israel.

I believe if you give a man a crutch that doesnt mean he loses the will to walk, it's temporary. Some people are ok with using a crutch for the rest of their lives but that is the exception, not the rule. For some reason tho, repubs like to point at the exceptions as proof of widespread abuse. I.E. voter fraud, welfare drug testing, using abortion as birth control etc.

I think we should be like other industrialized nations and have free healthcare as well as education.


The biggest problem we have in this country is knowledge of the facts...
Free healthcare/free education is one of them...
The left thinks of them as free...
They are not

SOMEONE HAS TO PAY FOR THEM........:evil:
 

9thIDdoc

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I was not given a choice. A lot of my earnings were simply stolen in exchange for the benifits I am now due to recieve. And now you want the government to fail to honor its' part of the contract?
Are you suicidal? Is the government?
 

The T

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Why do liberals desire to see huge cuts in military spending cut, but don't want to see any government entitlements like social security touched or reformed into personal investment accounts? If the national debt and spending must be reduced, we must look at entitlements like social security.

Workers didn't contribute to defense/military like they paid into Social Security and Medicare their entire working lives via payroll taxes. So how can they be compared for spending cuts?
What the fuck are you babbling about? Ever looked at a tax return?
 

ClosedCaption

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Al Gore wanted a lock box and was mocked for it.

I think we should be like other industrialized nations and have free healthcare as well as education. A home? No one is suggesting that at all.

If welfare makes one lazy then Israel has to be the laziest of all, but that reasoning doesnt sit well with the Republican worship of Israel.

I believe if you give a man a crutch that doesnt mean he loses the will to walk, it's temporary. Some people are ok with using a crutch for the rest of their lives but that is the exception, not the rule. For some reason tho, repubs like to point at the exceptions as proof of widespread abuse. I.E. voter fraud, welfare drug testing, using abortion as birth control etc.

I think we should be like other industrialized nations and have free healthcare as well as education.


The biggest problem we have in this country is knowledge of the facts...
Free healthcare/free education is one of them...
The left thinks of them as free...
They are not

SOMEONE HAS TO PAY FOR THEM........:evil:

Point made, but my point still stands
 

The T

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Al Gore wanted a lock box and was mocked for it.

I think we should be like other industrialized nations and have free healthcare as well as education. A home? No one is suggesting that at all.

If welfare makes one lazy then Israel has to be the laziest of all, but that reasoning doesnt sit well with the Republican worship of Israel.

I believe if you give a man a crutch that doesnt mean he loses the will to walk, it's temporary. Some people are ok with using a crutch for the rest of their lives but that is the exception, not the rule. For some reason tho, repubs like to point at the exceptions as proof of widespread abuse. I.E. voter fraud, welfare drug testing, using abortion as birth control etc.

I think we should be like other industrialized nations and have free healthcare as well as education.


The biggest problem we have in this country is knowledge of the facts...
Free healthcare/free education is one of them...
The left thinks of them as free...
They are not

SOMEONE HAS TO PAY FOR THEM........:evil:
And it robs people of thier liberty...thier choice...not having to settle for what some faceless bureaucrat decides they should do or have.
 

ClosedCaption

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No where do I condone taking away Anyones choice. But the choices seem to be crushing medical debt or die. That's not cool.
 

Charles_Main

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I wanted to create a thread that focuses on the subject centered around government "entitlements". The left appears to quickly jump on the band wagon of receiving more government "entitlements", as long as they aren't the ones that have to pay for it. Attempting to cut entitlement spending to balance the budget also seems to create quite an angry stir, just look at the violence that's erupting in Greece for example. There are a few questions that I'd would like to have discussed on this subject.

For those that support government "entitlements" is there a limit to how many entitlements, or how much, an individual ought to receive? Health care, a home, retirement . . . how much is enough?

Is there really a "justification" in having the rich pay for the bill, while others simply receive from the government?

Does it really help an individual towards, or does it enable them from, working to achieve a better way of life for themselves? I came across this article that raised a lot of these questions, about individuals who look to receive what they feel the Federal Government ought to provide.

Man living as an ‘adult baby’ is cleared of Social Security fraud
By Stephen Dinan-The Washington Times
Tuesday, October 18, 2011

The California man who lives part of his life as an “adult baby” and collects Social Security disability payments says the federal agency has cleared him of wrongdoing and will continue sending checks.

Stanley Thornton Jr. now wants an apology from Sen. Tom Coburn, the Oklahoma Republican who called for the benefit review because the investigation disrupted the final months of life for his roommate Sandra Dias, who playacted as his mother, spoon-feeding him and helping him into his baby clothes until her death in July.

“We recently reviewed the evidence in your Social Security disability claim and find that your disability is continuing,” the agency said in an August letter that Mr. Thornton posted on the website he maintains to document his adult baby lifestyle.

Mr. Thornton first gained prominence after he appeared on a reality television show and later after Mr. Coburn asked for the Social Security Administration to investigate him. The lawmaker questioned why he was receiving taxpayer-funded Supplemental Security Income (SSI) payments, commonly called disability checks, given the woodworking skills he demonstrated in May on the National Geographic channel television show “Taboo.”

Dias died July 7, and Mr. Thornton moved out of the apartment they shared. He told The Washington Times they had made payments based on their combined disability checks, which came to about $860 a month for each of them, and he could no longer afford the home on his own.

“My best friend Sandra had to spend the last 3 months of her life being accused of something she didn’t do. Having her family and 3 kids seeing her accused on the nightly news of something she didn’t do,” he wrote in an extensive post explaining the situation on the website he runs at www.BedWettingAB/DL.com for others who play-act as babies, wear diapers or wet their beds.

John Hart, a spokesman for Mr. Coburn, said Tuesday that the senator, who is also a medical doctor, is still puzzled by how “a grown man who is able to design and build adult-sized baby furniture is eligible for disability benefits.”

“Yet, the problem is not with Mr. Thornton, per se, but with the politicians and bureaucrats who have coddled him,” Mr. Hart said. “Disability fraud effectively steals from those who are truly disabled, while weakening the economy for everyone.”

Man living as an 'adult baby' is cleared of Social Security fraud - Washington Times

It's not that they go to far, the Main problem is they are abused. You can't tell me that none of you have ever known someone who was working the system. Getting some kind of Aid, while doing drugs, or working under the table, or like one guy I knew. Living with a women and paying most of the bills, while the woman collected Direct cash aid, and food stamps and claimed she was on her own.
 

uscitizen

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When do "entitlements" go too far?


One case for sure is when they go to mega corporations.
 

USArmyRetired

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If you cut entitlements such as welfare and SSI to minorities, the economy would be in much better shape.
 

9thIDdoc

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If you cut entitlements such as welfare and SSI to minorities, the economy would be in much better shape

If you liked OWS you'll LOVE OFIDC (old farts invade D.C.)
 

uscitizen

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SS and Medicare are the only true entillements since the participants pay into those plans.

welfare, earned income tax credits, medicaid, etc are not entitlements.
 

Lakhota

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Why do liberals desire to see huge cuts in military spending cut, but don't want to see any government entitlements like social security touched or reformed into personal investment accounts? If the national debt and spending must be reduced, we must look at entitlements like social security.

Workers didn't contribute to defense/military like they paid into Social Security and Medicare their entire working lives via payroll taxes. So how can they be compared for spending cuts?

If you pay income taxes, you contribute to defense.... oh wait....

Never mind.

:lol:

How about your 401(k)? Is that also on the table...?
 

Navy1960

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In the annual Trustees Report, projections are made under three alternative sets of economic and demographic assumptions. Under one of these sets (labeled "Low Cost") the trust funds remain solvent for the next 75 years. Under the other two sets (the "Intermediate" and "High Cost"), the trust funds become depleted within the next 25 years. The intermediate assumptions reflect the Trustees' best estimate of future experience
Some benefits could be paid even if the trust funds are depleted. For example, under the intermediate assumptions, annual income to the trust funds is projected to equal about three-quarters of program cost once the trust funds become depleted. If no legislation has been enacted to restore long-term solvency by that time, about three-quarters of scheduled benefits could be paid in each year.

Trust Fund FAQs

Backed by the full faith and credit of the U.S. government, the interest and principal on the Treasury securities in the trust fund will be paid back in full by taxes collected in the future -- just as the government has paid back interest and principal on all securities that the government has ever been issued. No additional burden is placed on future taxpayers due to Social Security beyond the commitment that was already made through the reforms in 1983.

We know that Social Security’s burden is going to rise very gradually, from just below 5 percent of GDP today to just over 6 percent by 2030, and remain at that level indefinitely thereafter. That’s a relatively modest and manageable increase, particularly compared to the anticipated explosion in health care costs. Medicare and Medicaid combined also amount to about 5 percent of gdp today, but are expected to roughly double to 10 percent by 2030 and continue to grow inexorably beyond that date
Taking Note: Five Social Security Non-Myths

It has been a misconception that China is the largest holder of U.S. debt. According to the U.S. Treasury Department that’s not true. The biggest holders of US debt are American individuals, institutions, and Social Security that account for almost 67%. China only holds 7.5%.
Who Is The Biggest Holder of U.S. Debt? | Exclusive Economy

While it's true that some seek to gain from entitlement programs, programs like Social Security, are NOT a problem and wont be a problem for another 20 plus years. In fact if the Govt. paid its debt that it raided from the Trust Fund back to Social Security then it would be a non issue all togther. However, in every program there will always be people that seek to take advantage and while I do not know all the circumstances of the person in question it would appear it has been investigated. Frankly I find this current drum beat of cutting to be a cheap method to get around problem solving at the expense of the poor and those unable to care for themselves in general. If you go back to every Administration both Democrat and Republican alike this nation has always stood on the principle that a great nation cared for those who were unable to care for themselves and through programs like Social Security and Medicare we offered our Seniors some dignity, free from the burden of a medical disaster. Yes, this doesn't mean that every single program in the Govt. has merit and cannot be done away with, but again this rush to cut without offering solutions solves nothing and offers nothing for the long term health of this nation.

As for the Military, DOD for years has needed massive reform in purchasing. from the current SecDef to the last one, this is no secret. The fact that DoD has lost or outright has waisted billions. Let me give you some examples.

1. Comanche Helicopter Program
2. DDx Destroyer Program
3. Presidential Helicopter
4. Air Force Tanker Program

These are just a few recent examples

An investigative committee released a report this week estimating that the US Government has lost as much as $60 billion to waste, fraud and corruption in Iraq and Afghanistan over the past decade.

The report is the work of the Wartime Contracting Commission, established by Congress in 2008 to investigate funds and contracts in support of US military operation. Rather than advocating a reduction in a ballooning military budget that has nearly doubled since the false flag terrorist incident of 9/11, however, the report makes the case that budget cuts to the Department of Defense will actually increase the wastage and instead argues that massive increases in spending need to be maintained.
The Corbett Report | Pentagon Frets Over Wasted Billions (Ignores Missing Trillions)

So when you talk about getting the Axe out and cutting programs like Social Security and Medicare, remember that your cutting programs that benefit those that are some of the individuals that are holders of US Debt. The fact is, our Govt. needs to get into the problem solving business and I submit that cutting everything solves nothing and is a cheap and fast way to send our nation even faster on its downward slide.
 

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