When did the party of Lincoln become the states rights party?

[Toronado3800]

My personal guess is the switch occurred during the New Deal when the elected portion of the fracturing Democratic party embraced the power of Washington over the states.

Republicans were in favor of Civil Rights leglislation in the 60's though.....although a strong war declaring President seems consistent with their views since the 80's.

HELP! Point me to some reading please.

 

[Oddball]

I think it was some time after the party of Jefferson became the party of social engineering and free shit for favored constituencies at the expense of everyone else.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

My personal guess is the switch occurred during the New Deal when the elected portion of the fracturing Democratic party embraced the power of Washington over the states.

Republicans were in favor of Civil Rights leglislation in the 60's though.....although a strong war declaring President seems consistent with their views since the 80's.

HELP! Point me to some reading please.

Well I think you need to look at the time around Grover Cleveland and William McKinley. There was a large segment of the Democratic Party, known as Bourbon Democrats, who were still on board with Cleveland's ideas of the gold standard and non-interventionism. Then the Democratic Party nominated William Jennings Bryan, and many Bourbon Democrats supported McKinley based on his support for the gold standard alone. After that progressivism took over the Democratic Party with Woodrow Wilson, and many former Bourbon Democrats joined the Republican Party and became known as the "Old Right," where they espoused noninterventionism, sound money, and states rights. It was really just a blip in the history of the Republican Party, however, and died out fairly quickly.

Today the Republican Party does not espouse states rights.

 

[Toronado3800]

Thanks guys. I will read up around there.

For some reason I am curious about this.

 

[Koios]

I think it was some time after the party of Jefferson became the party of social engineering and free shit for favored constituencies at the expense of everyone else.

Not the same party. Democratic-Republican party and Democratic Party are different.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Thanks guys. I will read up around there.

For some reason I am curious about this.

It's an interesting period. There was even a National Democratic Party, which was a third party based on the ideals of the Bourbon Democrats. Cleveland supported it.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

I think it was some time after the party of Jefferson became the party of social engineering and free shit for favored constituencies at the expense of everyone else.

Not the same party. Democratic-Republican party and Democratic Party are different.

The Democratic Party can be directly traced to the Democratic-Republican Party.

 

[Koios]

My personal guess is the switch occurred during the New Deal when the elected portion of the fracturing Democratic party embraced the power of Washington over the states.

Republicans were in favor of Civil Rights leglislation in the 60's though.....although a strong war declaring President seems consistent with their views since the 80's.

HELP! Point me to some reading please.

It was FDR who earned the Black vote in large numbers. The New Deal was indeed part of that, also improving the lives of Blacks. Also, Warm Springs connected FDR to Rural Blacks. It was a turning point, for Dem's relationships with Black Americans, who feared Southern Dems of the day, many of whom were racists and supporters of the KKK.

In fact, former KKK-friendly (maybe) Truman had Black Leaders worried. So Truman met with them, and despite his own racist tendencies, was true to his name, and lived up to his promises to them, carrying on the FDR tradition.

Additionally, albeit not immediately an issue in the minds of Blacks, the last true Lincoln Republican was Teddy Roosevelt. And indeed, the Republican Party of today, perhaps because of gains among white bigots when LBJ signed the Civil Rights bill, have made the white male voter a core constituency, and frequently use the keywords that appeal to white bigots ... as well as oppose minority rights issues reflexively.

Dems lost the South, for generations, due to the Civil Rights bill

Reps lost the future make up of America, maybe also for generations, by making racism a core aspect of the "Republican" brand.

 

[Koios]

I think it was some time after the party of Jefferson became the party of social engineering and free shit for favored constituencies at the expense of everyone else.

Not the same party. Democratic-Republican party and Democratic Party are different.

The Democratic Party can be directly traced to the Democratic-Republican Party.

Sure; half of it can. The other half became the National Republican Party >> Whig Party >> Republican Party.

Jefferson, to the chagrin of Adams, banded together and essentially was the co-inventer of the party system in American politics. But he's no more the first Democrat than he is the first Republican.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Not the same party. Democratic-Republican party and Democratic Party are different.

The Democratic Party can be directly traced to the Democratic-Republican Party.

Sure; half of it can. The other half became the National Republican Party >> Whig Party >> Republican Party.

Jefferson, to the chagrin of Adams, banded together and essentially was the co-inventer of the party system in American politics. But he's no more the first Democrat than he is the first Republican.

The Republicans can be traced back to the Whigs, and the Whigs can be traced back to the Federalists.

 

[Koios]

The Democratic Party can be directly traced to the Democratic-Republican Party.

Sure; half of it can. The other half became the National Republican Party >> Whig Party >> Republican Party.

Jefferson, to the chagrin of Adams, banded together and essentially was the co-inventer of the party system in American politics. But he's no more the first Democrat than he is the first Republican.

The Republicans can be traced back to the Whigs, and the Whigs can be traced back to the Federalists.

And also the National Republican Party and the Democratic-Republican Party prior to that. The National Republican Party was the charter party-association. From that, all other parties became offspring, some coalescing into groups that became todays Dems and others into today's Reps. Any who call Dems the party of Jefferson are only half right; he's the father of both Dems and Reps.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Sure; half of it can. The other half became the National Republican Party >> Whig Party >> Republican Party.

Jefferson, to the chagrin of Adams, banded together and essentially was the co-inventer of the party system in American politics. But he's no more the first Democrat than he is the first Republican.

The Republicans can be traced back to the Whigs, and the Whigs can be traced back to the Federalists.

And also the National Republican Party and the Democratic-Republican Party prior to that. The National Republican Party was the charter party-association. From that, all other parties became offspring, some coalescing into groups that became todays Dems and others into today's Reps. Any who call Dems the party of Jefferson are only half right; he's the father of both Dems and Reps.

The policies of the Federalists, Whigs, and early Republicans are essentially identical. Whereas the Democratic-Republican Party and the early Democratic Party are identical. Jefferson is the father of the Democrats, and Hamilton is the father of the Republicans.

 

[del]

I think it was some time after the party of Jefferson became the party of social engineering and free shit for favored constituencies at the expense of everyone else.

tissue?

 

[Koios]

The Republicans can be traced back to the Whigs, and the Whigs can be traced back to the Federalists.

And also the National Republican Party and the Democratic-Republican Party prior to that. The National Republican Party was the charter party-association. From that, all other parties became offspring, some coalescing into groups that became todays Dems and others into today's Reps. Any who call Dems the party of Jefferson are only half right; he's the father of both Dems and Reps.

The policies of the Federalists, Whigs, and early Republicans are essentially identical. Whereas the Democratic-Republican Party and the early Democratic Party are identical. Jefferson is the father of the Democrats, and Hamilton is the father of the Republicans.

Similarities can be drawn in almost any direction, when comparing groups separated by a coupla hundred years. So believe any thesis you wish.

But it's simply a fact that the D-RP has direct links to both Dems and Reps.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

My personal guess is the switch occurred during the New Deal when the elected portion of the fracturing Democratic party embraced the power of Washington over the states.

Republicans were in favor of Civil Rights leglislation in the 60's though.....although a strong war declaring President seems consistent with their views since the 80's.

HELP! Point me to some reading please.

Well I think you need to look at the time around Grover Cleveland and William McKinley. There was a large segment of the Democratic Party, known as Bourbon Democrats, who were still on board with Cleveland's ideas of the gold standard and non-interventionism. Then the Democratic Party nominated William Jennings Bryan, and many Bourbon Democrats supported McKinley based on his support for the gold standard alone. After that progressivism took over the Democratic Party with Woodrow Wilson, and many former Bourbon Democrats joined the Republican Party and became known as the "Old Right," where they espoused noninterventionism, sound money, and states rights. It was really just a blip in the history of the Republican Party, however, and died out fairly quickly.

Today the Republican Party does not espouse states rights.

I disagree, the Republican party has always been a staunch defender of the 10th Amendment.

 

[Koios]

My personal guess is the switch occurred during the New Deal when the elected portion of the fracturing Democratic party embraced the power of Washington over the states.

Republicans were in favor of Civil Rights leglislation in the 60's though.....although a strong war declaring President seems consistent with their views since the 80's.

HELP! Point me to some reading please.

Well I think you need to look at the time around Grover Cleveland and William McKinley. There was a large segment of the Democratic Party, known as Bourbon Democrats, who were still on board with Cleveland's ideas of the gold standard and non-interventionism. Then the Democratic Party nominated William Jennings Bryan, and many Bourbon Democrats supported McKinley based on his support for the gold standard alone. After that progressivism took over the Democratic Party with Woodrow Wilson, and many former Bourbon Democrats joined the Republican Party and became known as the "Old Right," where they espoused noninterventionism, sound money, and states rights. It was really just a blip in the history of the Republican Party, however, and died out fairly quickly.

Today the Republican Party does not espouse states rights.

I disagree, the Republican party has always been a staunch defender of the 10th Amendment.

Patriot act? DOMA? Medicare Part-D?

Give me a break. The only time they talk state rights is when they want to cut a program that helps average Americans and then say, "Ah hell; let the states pay for that."

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Well I think you need to look at the time around Grover Cleveland and William McKinley. There was a large segment of the Democratic Party, known as Bourbon Democrats, who were still on board with Cleveland's ideas of the gold standard and non-interventionism. Then the Democratic Party nominated William Jennings Bryan, and many Bourbon Democrats supported McKinley based on his support for the gold standard alone. After that progressivism took over the Democratic Party with Woodrow Wilson, and many former Bourbon Democrats joined the Republican Party and became known as the "Old Right," where they espoused noninterventionism, sound money, and states rights. It was really just a blip in the history of the Republican Party, however, and died out fairly quickly.

Today the Republican Party does not espouse states rights.

I disagree, the Republican party has always been a staunch defender of the 10th Amendment.

Patriot act? DOMA? Medicare Part-D?

Give me a break. The only time they talk state rights is when they want to cut a program that helps average Americans and then say, "Ah hell; let the states pay for that."

Doma was signed into law by a Democrat.

Patriot act is a federal issue as is medicare.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

My personal guess is the switch occurred during the New Deal when the elected portion of the fracturing Democratic party embraced the power of Washington over the states.

Republicans were in favor of Civil Rights leglislation in the 60's though.....although a strong war declaring President seems consistent with their views since the 80's.

HELP! Point me to some reading please.

Well I think you need to look at the time around Grover Cleveland and William McKinley. There was a large segment of the Democratic Party, known as Bourbon Democrats, who were still on board with Cleveland's ideas of the gold standard and non-interventionism. Then the Democratic Party nominated William Jennings Bryan, and many Bourbon Democrats supported McKinley based on his support for the gold standard alone. After that progressivism took over the Democratic Party with Woodrow Wilson, and many former Bourbon Democrats joined the Republican Party and became known as the "Old Right," where they espoused noninterventionism, sound money, and states rights. It was really just a blip in the history of the Republican Party, however, and died out fairly quickly.

Today the Republican Party does not espouse states rights.

I disagree, the Republican party has always been a staunch defender of the 10th Amendment.

Examples?

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Well I think you need to look at the time around Grover Cleveland and William McKinley. There was a large segment of the Democratic Party, known as Bourbon Democrats, who were still on board with Cleveland's ideas of the gold standard and non-interventionism. Then the Democratic Party nominated William Jennings Bryan, and many Bourbon Democrats supported McKinley based on his support for the gold standard alone. After that progressivism took over the Democratic Party with Woodrow Wilson, and many former Bourbon Democrats joined the Republican Party and became known as the "Old Right," where they espoused noninterventionism, sound money, and states rights. It was really just a blip in the history of the Republican Party, however, and died out fairly quickly.

Today the Republican Party does not espouse states rights.

I disagree, the Republican party has always been a staunch defender of the 10th Amendment.

Patriot act? DOMA? Medicare Part-D?

Give me a break. The only time they talk state rights is when they want to cut a program that helps average Americans and then say, "Ah hell; let the states pay for that."

Republicans are interested in states rights when the Democrats are in power.

 

[Koios]

I disagree, the Republican party has always been a staunch defender of the 10th Amendment.

Patriot act? DOMA? Medicare Part-D?

Give me a break. The only time they talk state rights is when they want to cut a program that helps average Americans and then say, "Ah hell; let the states pay for that."

Doma was signed into law by a Democrat.

Patriot act is a federal issue as is medicare.

How many Rep voted no to DOMA (Rep-authored) or Patriot Act (Rep authored) or Medicare Part D (Rep sponsored)? And why, if they're so keen on 10A cannot any state bid on presscription drugs, thanks to MC-D?

Hmmm?

Republicans are not full of shit because they are shit. Fact, not opinion.