What's Your Understanding Of The Act Of Burning The Flag?

[bodecea]

I don't think that RWers and LWers view it the same at all.

You RWers tend to take it ultra-personally, as if someone's burning down your abode or something.

So I'd like to get some feedback as to what you think it is, both sides actually.

Something tells me that the reasons will differ quite substantially based on ideology.

I find it more shocking and insulting that almost all our flags are made in China now.


If it's such a big deal, just make them from non-flammable material.

 

[bodecea]

I would never burn the flag, but I think it represents the best part of our country.
I think it is worse when you disrespect the flag by flying it the wrong way, or not disposing of it when it is worn out.

If you are going to pass laws against burning the flag, those same laws should prevent people from flying tattered flags.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

I would never burn the flag, but I think it represents the best part of our country.
I think it is worse when you disrespect the flag by flying it the wrong way, or not disposing of it when it is worn out.

If you are going to pass laws against burning the flag, those same laws should prevent people from flying tattered flags.

I'm not for passing a law against it and I didn't read luissa stating that she did either. Don't project bodecea.

I think burning the flag is wrong and offensive.

It would be like me going into your church (if your a church person) and burning the bible in front of you. Thats what Its like to me.

 

[Hellokitty]

It's great that we live in a country where it isn't illegal to burn the flag.

What even better is that we live in a country full of brave men and women who are willing to give their live so that some dumb ass can burn the flag...

 

[Father Time]

When I see people doing it in protest I don't get offended because I figure they're just acting out to try be shocking or get attention.

That's just me though.

 

[goldcatt]

It's great that we live in a country where it isn't illegal to burn the flag.

What even better is that we live in a country full of brave men and women who are willing to give their live so that some dumb ass can burn the flag...

It is even better. Real freedom is freedom to be a dumbass just as much as it is to serve and protect. Or even to do both.

If everything some people or even the majority found stupid or offensive could be banned, how much freedom of speech do you think any of us would have left?

 

[emilynghiem]

There are some conservatives that get outraged at any criticism of the gov't or the gov'ts actions, especially in war. Look at all the shit thrown at anybody that didn't jump in line to support the wars. Or you bring up things the US gov't has done wrong in the past. THey just don't want to here that their precious country can't do no wrong

Exactly!

To many America can do no wrong.

So the Constitution is a god and the flag is the god next to it.

Really? Find me someone - anyone - who actually thinks America can do no wrong, or who considers the Constitution OR the flag to be gods. Otherwise, spare me the frigging hyperbole.

I'll say again to all leftists what I said to Blu - it is not at all surprising to hear that you don't understand the concept and importance of symbolism, because you demonstrate so clearly so often that you understand nothing about human nature in general.

And you will never understand why conservatives do what they do if you ask your questions with your ears already stuffed full of what you "know" to be the answers.

As a Constitutionalist, I align more with the Christian left, but still manages to connect with Conservative Republicans on common Christian and Constitutional values.

1. I do believe the democratic principles and structures in Constitutional law are "given by God" as an espression of natural laws that are universal for all humanity, but made statutory in our secular system of civil laws. I do believe these are divinely inspired, and connect people by conscience on a spiritual level. I believe restoring respect for the spirit of the laws will reform the state equally as the church is reformed and freed from corrupt abuses. It is a very similar process of going back to the spirit of the laws that was lost.

2. As for flag burning, my perception of the interpretation of these acts

A. if a liberal peace activist burns a flag in protest of American involvement in foreign military actions, this is seen as ungrateful hypocrisy that this person enjoys the freedom to protest and petition freely BECAUSE of military security while protesting the same use of American military to defend other countries that don't have such protection against bullies

B. if a conservative activist who honors God and the Constitution and grieves for the violation and loss of Constitutional respect by abuse of majority rule and federal authority to circumvent the letter, were to burn a flag, this might be seen as grieving for the fall of the nation and Constitutional principles while showing respect. I am guessing it would be understood as saying that all the freedoms that soldiers fought for are being sacrificed.
It would not be seen as disrespectful but honoring that spirit and meaning of the Flag.

So it depends on the perception of the protestor's spirit. If this person is perceived as RESPECTING the sacrifice of soldiers for Constitutional democratic freedom, then it is seen as a sacrifice or loss "with respect to" what the Flag and Constitution stand for.

If this person is viewed as unpatriotic and taking the military for granted along with the freedoms that soldiers have died for, then the flag burning is seen as hypocritical and insulting. (Of course there are strong associations with left and right, but it is not limited to that. The extreme religious protestors who disrupt funerals with no respect for soldiers or their families are not from the left, and they are also seen as insulting for abusing Constitutional rights taken for granted that these soldiers allow them to exercise freely.)

If the flag-burning is to recognize God giving us Constitutional laws that are being sacrificed, it would be seen differently than people protesting AGAINST the idea of God-given authority they believe is being abused, which comes across as disrespecting the blessings that God does give us.

Anyone who respects the Flag would make it clear that national honor is recognized; and would not risk sending a mixed message of insulting or taking freedoms for granted.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Those are 2 refreshing posts right there.

 

[rightwinger]

It's legal, unfortunately.... protected under free speech

I have served my country with honor... and buried come close friends with the flag on their coffins... and I think that anyone who desecrates the flag is a despicable piece of shit....

I agree....It reflects mostly on the person doing the burning

To prosecute someone for being disrespectful towards your country would be contrary to what this country was founded on.

Our founding fathers disrespected the King which is the same as burning a flag

 

[Cecilie1200]

I don't think that RWers and LWers view it the same at all.

You RWers tend to take it ultra-personally, as if someone's burning down your abode or something.

So I'd like to get some feedback as to what you think it is, both sides actually.

Something tells me that the reasons will differ quite substantially based on ideology.

I suppose most liberals would say it's their right to do what they please. But I find it's a slap in the face to our country.

The question should be, why would any American want to burn the American flag?

To piss off other people. It's like a political version of a teenager coming to the family Thanksgiving dinner table in full Goth gear, spouting obscenities.

 

[Ravi]

It's great that we live in a country where it isn't illegal to burn the flag.

What even better is that we live in a country full of brave men and women who are willing to give their live so that some dumb ass can burn the flag...

Yep. Sometimes people need to be reminded of just that.

 

[goldcatt]

I don't think that RWers and LWers view it the same at all.

You RWers tend to take it ultra-personally, as if someone's burning down your abode or something.

So I'd like to get some feedback as to what you think it is, both sides actually.

Something tells me that the reasons will differ quite substantially based on ideology.

I suppose most liberals would say it's their right to do what they please. But I find it's a slap in the face to our country.

The question should be, why would any American want to burn the American flag?

To piss off other people. It's like a political version of a teenager coming to the family Thanksgiving dinner table in full Goth gear, spouting obscenities.

"Most" liberals neither burn flags nor project their own small mindedness on the people who choose that form of expression. To find out why any person chooses to burn a flag, you'd have to ask them. I'm pretty sure you'd get a wide range of answers.

The whole point is, banning a form of speech just because it is "offensive" is an open invitation to majority rule over all speech. That means it is no longer free, and dissent by definition will no longer be tolerated. That is not what that flag stands for. While I personally find it distasteful, it is far better to see the piece of cloth desecrated than to see what it represents destroyed.

 

[saveliberty]

"Most" liberals neither burn flags nor project their own small mindedness on the people who choose that form of expression. To find out why any person chooses to burn a flag, you'd have to ask them. I'm pretty sure you'd get a wide range of answers.

The whole point is, banning a form of speech just because it is "offensive" is an open invitation to majority rule over all speech. That means it is no longer free, and dissent by definition will no longer be tolerated. That is not what that flag stands for. While I personally find it distasteful, it is far better to see the piece of cloth desecrated than to see what it represents destroyed.

Calling flag burning free speech makes as much sense as me talking to you by peeing on your head. I know what I said, but your going to be confused and mad. Still free speech?

 

[Dr Gregg]

"Most" liberals neither burn flags nor project their own small mindedness on the people who choose that form of expression. To find out why any person chooses to burn a flag, you'd have to ask them. I'm pretty sure you'd get a wide range of answers.

The whole point is, banning a form of speech just because it is "offensive" is an open invitation to majority rule over all speech. That means it is no longer free, and dissent by definition will no longer be tolerated. That is not what that flag stands for. While I personally find it distasteful, it is far better to see the piece of cloth desecrated than to see what it represents destroyed.

Calling flag burning free speech makes as much sense as me talking to you by peeing on your head. I know what I said, but your going to be confused and mad. Still free speech?

wow, just when you thought you've heard the dumbest arguments ever, this one comes across.

Peeing on someone is assault. Burning a flag doesn't harm anybody else. You can't possibly be that dumb to think what you put forth was a good argument

 

[blu]

"Most" liberals neither burn flags nor project their own small mindedness on the people who choose that form of expression. To find out why any person chooses to burn a flag, you'd have to ask them. I'm pretty sure you'd get a wide range of answers.

The whole point is, banning a form of speech just because it is "offensive" is an open invitation to majority rule over all speech. That means it is no longer free, and dissent by definition will no longer be tolerated. That is not what that flag stands for. While I personally find it distasteful, it is far better to see the piece of cloth desecrated than to see what it represents destroyed.

Calling flag burning free speech makes as much sense as me talking to you by peeing on your head. I know what I said, but your going to be confused and mad. Still free speech?

wow, just when you thought you've heard the dumbest arguments ever, this one comes across.

Peeing on someone is assault. Burning a flag doesn't harm anybody else. You can't possibly be that dumb to think what you put forth was a good argument

i think saveliberty posts while high too much

 

[MarcATL]

I suppose most liberals would say it's their right to do what they please. But I find it's a slap in the face to our country.

The question should be, why would any American want to burn the American flag?

That's not the question. Why not ask why would any American want to protest their government if that's the stance you're going to take then?

I think burning the flag is wrong and offensive.

It would be like me going into your church (if your a church person) and burning the bible in front of you. Thats what Its like to me.


I'm an independant who is financially conservative, socially liberal, and pro small government.

No, its nothing at all like if you were to come into my church or a church and burn the bible. Although, I don't discount that thats truly how you feel. As Americans they share a common bond in nativity, however as an outsider you don't share anything with a church member other than being another human being. Had you said it would be like an Australian coming to America and burning the American flag, your analogy would have been more accurate. But you didn't.

As a Constitutionalist, I align more with the Christian left, but still manages to connect with Conservative Republicans on common Christian and Constitutional values.

1. I do believe the democratic principles and structures in Constitutional law are "given by God" as an espression of natural laws that are universal for all humanity, but made statutory in our secular system of civil laws. I do believe these are divinely inspired, and connect people by conscience on a spiritual level. I believe restoring respect for the spirit of the laws will reform the state equally as the church is reformed and freed from corrupt abuses. It is a very similar process of going back to the spirit of the laws that was lost.

2. As for flag burning, my perception of the interpretation of these acts

A. if a liberal peace activist burns a flag in protest of American involvement in foreign military actions, this is seen as ungrateful hypocrisy that this person enjoys the freedom to protest and petition freely BECAUSE of military security while protesting the same use of American military to defend other countries that don't have such protection against bullies

B. if a conservative activist who honors God and the Constitution and grieves for the violation and loss of Constitutional respect by abuse of majority rule and federal authority to circumvent the letter, were to burn a flag, this might be seen as grieving for the fall of the nation and Constitutional principles while showing respect. I am guessing it would be understood as saying that all the freedoms that soldiers fought for are being sacrificed.
It would not be seen as disrespectful but honoring that spirit and meaning of the Flag.

So it depends on the perception of the protestor's spirit. If this person is perceived as RESPECTING the sacrifice of soldiers for Constitutional democratic freedom, then it is seen as a sacrifice or loss "with respect to" what the Flag and Constitution stand for.

If this person is viewed as unpatriotic and taking the military for granted along with the freedoms that soldiers have died for, then the flag burning is seen as hypocritical and insulting. (Of course there are strong associations with left and right, but it is not limited to that. The extreme religious protestors who disrupt funerals with no respect for soldiers or their families are not from the left, and they are also seen as insulting for abusing Constitutional rights taken for granted that these soldiers allow them to exercise freely.)

If the flag-burning is to recognize God giving us Constitutional laws that are being sacrificed, it would be seen differently than people protesting AGAINST the idea of God-given authority they believe is being abused, which comes across as disrespecting the blessings that God does give us.

Anyone who respects the Flag would make it clear that national honor is recognized; and would not risk sending a mixed message of insulting or taking freedoms for granted.

Seems like there's a lot of judging going on with all the perceiving you'd have to do using your position. Also, sounds like you don't really have a problem with the flag burner per se, but with the person burning the flag and/or their reasons for burning the flag.

Most interesting.

To piss off other people. It's like a political version of a teenager coming to the family Thanksgiving dinner table in full Goth gear, spouting obscenities.

Again, you with this "to piss other people off" stuff. For a person that was touting not knowing or understanding human nature its quite baffling that you would turn around and miss the point COMPLETELY by not understanding the simple fact that its not. about. you.

What do you think...flag burners are going out there thinking "well this will really piss them off." First of all...who's "them?" Second of all...what's the point?


No Cecile...you don't have the grasp of human nature as you claim you do, because if you did, you would realize that human nature dictates that people do this out of anger and/or frustration and the need to be heard...to make a point. That's human nature as well.

Go read the whole book then come back....Hmmmkkaay?

 

[beowolfe]

I don't think that RWers and LWers view it the same at all.

You RWers tend to take it ultra-personally, as if someone's burning down your abode or something.

So I'd like to get some feedback as to what you think it is, both sides actually.

Something tells me that the reasons will differ quite substantially based on ideology.

Mine is that 99% of the time, it's a statement of political protest. Which is why flag desecration laws are usually struck down by the SUPREMES.

 

[beowolfe]

Think about. Leftwingnuts get pizzed at the government and they burn a flag. Rightwingnuts get pizzed at the government and break out their AK-47's and they expect to be able to do that unpunished, but want the flag burner locked away in prison. What a FN country!!!

 

[WillowTree]

"Most" liberals neither burn flags nor project their own small mindedness on the people who choose that form of expression. To find out why any person chooses to burn a flag, you'd have to ask them. I'm pretty sure you'd get a wide range of answers.

The whole point is, banning a form of speech just because it is "offensive" is an open invitation to majority rule over all speech. That means it is no longer free, and dissent by definition will no longer be tolerated. That is not what that flag stands for. While I personally find it distasteful, it is far better to see the piece of cloth desecrated than to see what it represents destroyed.

Calling flag burning free speech makes as much sense as me talking to you by peeing on your head. I know what I said, but your going to be confused and mad. Still free speech?

wow, just when you thought you've heard the dumbest arguments ever, this one comes across.

Peeing on someone is assault. Burning a flag doesn't harm anybody else. You can't possibly be that dumb to think what you put forth was a good argument

getting peed on doesn't hurt either.. you ever pee on your finger?? you pee acid??? what a wussy.

 

[MarcATL]

Think about. Leftwingnuts get pizzed at the government and they burn a flag. Rightwingnuts get pizzed at the government and break out their AK-47's and they expect to be able to do that unpunished, but want the flag burner locked away in prison. What a FN country!!!

Say it again brother!