What's your position on a universal minimum income?

[EdwardBaiamonte]

So again, why bail out the banks and not the little folk?

total stupid!!! trillions each year spent on failed little folks for life who never pay back a penny!!
Bank bailouts were 100% different!!!and 100% paid back!!! Do you ever get anything right?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Private debt skyrocketed and was followed by a collapse in the economy. Japan went through 20 years of stagnation precisely for the same reason. And what about the US? The economy isn't exactly booming.

so?????????Did I say i wanted more private debt???????????????????????????

 

[danielpalos]

Yo, how about just getting an EDUCATION, FOOLS!!!

"GTP"
View attachment 112925

capitalism has a Natural rate of unemployment.

The level of unemployment is a fake measure. Employment level on the other hand peaked in 200 and has never again gotten to that point. Iff it recovers to that point I'll put to rest any concerns I have regarding the role of automation.

We have laws regarding the concept of employment at will; the right wing has a problem being legal to it.

 

[danielpalos]

Why not rescue the little folk ?

total stupid!!! trillion each year spent on failed individuals for life who never pay back a penny!!
Bank bailouts were 100% different!!! Do you ever get anything right?

Did you know the exact same thing happend in the '30s? Private debt skyrocketed and was followed by a collapse in the economy. Japan went through 20 years of stagnation precisely for the same reason. And what about the US? The economy isn't exactly booming.

notice how you had to change the subject????? What do you learn from that??

No , I didn't change it . It is to drill the point that the only thing they achieved was to sabilize the economy.
Furthermore, in spite of Obama's declarations it seems the bailout was much larger and those loans were not fully paid:

The Big Bank Bailout

"In fact, $7.7 trillion of the secret emergency lending was only disclosed to the public after Congress forced a one-time audit of the Federal Reserve in November of 2011. After the audit the public found out the bailout was in trillions not billions; and that there were no requirements attached to the bailout money - the banks could use it for any purpose."

So again, why bail out the banks and not the little folk?

i think we should audit the drug war and our wars on crime, poverty, and terror, instead of the Fed.

 

[danielpalos]

So again, why bail out the banks and not the little folk?

total stupid!!! trillions each year spent on failed little folks for life who never pay back a penny!!
Bank bailouts were 100% different!!!and 100% paid back!!! Do you ever get anything right?

it takes capital to make more capital.

 

[CultureCitizen]

Furthermore, in spite of Obama's declarations it seems the bailout was much larger and those loans were not fully paid:

liberal liar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Not all of the banks who received TARP money have repaid the loans. ... But, the fact remains, due to interest, dividends and other revenue streams, the government has received more money back ($266.7 billion, according to the Treasury) than it handed out to banks under the bailout law ($245.2 billion).
Barack Obama says banks paid back all the federal bailout money ...
www.politifact.com/.../barack-obama-says-banks-paid-back-all-federal-bail/

I too wish it was a lie, there is little evidence, but, indeed, it seems the bailout costed trillions , and not some billions.

 

[eflatminor]

Why not rescue the little folk ?

total stupid!!! trillion each year spent on failed individuals for life who never pay back a penny!!
Bank bailouts were 100% different!!! Do you ever get anything right?

Did you know the exact same thing happend in the '30s? Private debt skyrocketed and was followed by a collapse in the economy. Japan went through 20 years of stagnation precisely for the same reason. And what about the US? The economy isn't exactly booming.

notice how you had to change the subject????? What do you learn from that??

No , I didn't change it . It is to drill the point that the only thing they achieved was to sabilize the economy.
Furthermore, in spite of Obama's declarations it seems the bailout was much larger and those loans were not fully paid:

The Big Bank Bailout

"In fact, $7.7 trillion of the secret emergency lending was only disclosed to the public after Congress forced a one-time audit of the Federal Reserve in November of 2011. After the audit the public found out the bailout was in trillions not billions; and that there were no requirements attached to the bailout money - the banks could use it for any purpose."

So again, why bail out the banks and not the little folk?

i think we should audit the drug war and our wars on crime, poverty, and terror, instead of the Fed.

Why not all?

 

[danielpalos]

total stupid!!! trillion each year spent on failed individuals for life who never pay back a penny!!
Bank bailouts were 100% different!!! Do you ever get anything right?

Did you know the exact same thing happend in the '30s? Private debt skyrocketed and was followed by a collapse in the economy. Japan went through 20 years of stagnation precisely for the same reason. And what about the US? The economy isn't exactly booming.

notice how you had to change the subject????? What do you learn from that??

No , I didn't change it . It is to drill the point that the only thing they achieved was to sabilize the economy.
Furthermore, in spite of Obama's declarations it seems the bailout was much larger and those loans were not fully paid:

The Big Bank Bailout

"In fact, $7.7 trillion of the secret emergency lending was only disclosed to the public after Congress forced a one-time audit of the Federal Reserve in November of 2011. After the audit the public found out the bailout was in trillions not billions; and that there were no requirements attached to the bailout money - the banks could use it for any purpose."

So again, why bail out the banks and not the little folk?

i think we should audit the drug war and our wars on crime, poverty, and terror, instead of the Fed.

Why not all?

the fed is a profit center not a cost center; if there is any exigency at all, it must be with cost centers, first.

 

[eflatminor]

Did you know the exact same thing happend in the '30s? Private debt skyrocketed and was followed by a collapse in the economy. Japan went through 20 years of stagnation precisely for the same reason. And what about the US? The economy isn't exactly booming.

notice how you had to change the subject????? What do you learn from that??

No , I didn't change it . It is to drill the point that the only thing they achieved was to sabilize the economy.
Furthermore, in spite of Obama's declarations it seems the bailout was much larger and those loans were not fully paid:

The Big Bank Bailout

"In fact, $7.7 trillion of the secret emergency lending was only disclosed to the public after Congress forced a one-time audit of the Federal Reserve in November of 2011. After the audit the public found out the bailout was in trillions not billions; and that there were no requirements attached to the bailout money - the banks could use it for any purpose."

So again, why bail out the banks and not the little folk?

i think we should audit the drug war and our wars on crime, poverty, and terror, instead of the Fed.

Why not all?

the fed is a profit center not a cost center; if there is any exigency at all, it must be with cost centers, first.

A profit center. I've never heard that. What do you mean?

 

[Slyhunter]

Many economists ( Steeve Keen, Milton Friedman ) as well as some institutions (singularity university) and busienssmen (Elon Musk) advocate for a universal minimum income.

What's your position regarding this policy?
References:
Universal minimum income to be above poverty line ( about $11 per day)
Minimum wage ( about $57 per day)
Median individual income ( about $88 per day)

Addendum :the singularity university is dedicated to solving big problems using AI. Elon musk is concerned about the role of man in an increasingly aoutomated world.

Basic income - Wikipedia

There should be no world wide minimum wage if it means taking money away from Americans to give to people who aren't Americans.

 

[Jomama]

Did you know the exact same thing happend in the '30s? Private debt skyrocketed and was followed by a collapse in the economy. Japan went through 20 years of stagnation precisely for the same reason. And what about the US? The economy isn't exactly booming.
notice how you had to change the subject????? What do you learn from that??

No , I didn't change it . It is to drill the point that the only thing they achieved was to sabilize the economy.
Furthermore, in spite of Obama's declarations it seems the bailout was much larger and those loans were not fully paid:

The Big Bank Bailout

"In fact, $7.7 trillion of the secret emergency lending was only disclosed to the public after Congress forced a one-time audit of the Federal Reserve in November of 2011. After the audit the public found out the bailout was in trillions not billions; and that there were no requirements attached to the bailout money - the banks could use it for any purpose."

So again, why bail out the banks and not the little folk

You're both right, almost. Failing mega banks should be bailed out punitively they should have senior loans forced upon them with minimum 10% interest and tough controls. Let them pay private market rates like a failing business does.

Little banks? They're not a contagion threat so let them go under. Same with individuals.

 

[danielpalos]

notice how you had to change the subject????? What do you learn from that??

No , I didn't change it . It is to drill the point that the only thing they achieved was to sabilize the economy.
Furthermore, in spite of Obama's declarations it seems the bailout was much larger and those loans were not fully paid:

The Big Bank Bailout

"In fact, $7.7 trillion of the secret emergency lending was only disclosed to the public after Congress forced a one-time audit of the Federal Reserve in November of 2011. After the audit the public found out the bailout was in trillions not billions; and that there were no requirements attached to the bailout money - the banks could use it for any purpose."

So again, why bail out the banks and not the little folk?

i think we should audit the drug war and our wars on crime, poverty, and terror, instead of the Fed.

Why not all?

the fed is a profit center not a cost center; if there is any exigency at all, it must be with cost centers, first.

A profit center. I've never heard that. What do you mean?

Profit Center

 

[CultureCitizen]

No , I didn't change it . It is to drill the point that the only thing they achieved was to sabilize the economy.
Furthermore, in spite of Obama's declarations it seems the bailout was much larger and those loans were not fully paid:

The Big Bank Bailout

"In fact, $7.7 trillion of the secret emergency lending was only disclosed to the public after Congress forced a one-time audit of the Federal Reserve in November of 2011. After the audit the public found out the bailout was in trillions not billions; and that there were no requirements attached to the bailout money - the banks could use it for any purpose."

So again, why bail out the banks and not the little folk?

i think we should audit the drug war and our wars on crime, poverty, and terror, instead of the Fed.

Why not all?

the fed is a profit center not a cost center; if there is any exigency at all, it must be with cost centers, first.

A profit center. I've never heard that. What do you mean?

Profit Center

Daniel,
The Fed is not a profit center. It just regulates interest rates , supplies the currency and regulates banks.
As per my previous post, if the bailout exceeded 7.7 T it was not by far a profit center and it just made US public debt worse.

 

[Boss]

Doesn't the same argument hold true when income tax is reduced?
Prices should go up because everyone has more money to spend?

First of all, everyone doesn't have more money to spend. Only income tax payers get to keep more of the money they earned. It's not free money that everybody gets. The amounts vary depending on your income and some will get nothing. But, generally speaking, any time the market has more expendable resources it increases demand and if supply remains the same, prices go up. With tax cuts, especially on the top marginal incomes, the results are more supply oriented, businesses are expanded which increases supply. This means lower prices.

A good exercise with proposals such as yours is to amplify them and examine potential results. Why not give everyone $50,000? Or better yet, let's give everybody, including the homeless bums, $500,000! Why wouldn't this be awesome? If your idea is good, this should be phenomenal.... but you can imagine it wouldn't work. Why? Whatever reasons it wouldn't work are true with your proposal as well, all that is different is the scale.

Now, you will notice your proposal isn't very popular. According to the poll, 65% agree with me, there should be no minimum universal income. It's because most mature people who are capable of thinking above a 5-year-old level, understand that nothing is free. There isn't a magic money tree that can solve all our problems.

 

[Markle]

Yo, how about just getting an EDUCATION, FOOLS!!!

"GTP"
View attachment 112925

I have been getting an education every single day of my life: I am a computer scientist, and I am actually very concerned about the advances in AI, many jobs are going to be destroyed in the next 20 years, it is going to be very hard for people to retool for the kind jobs that will be needed .

Yo, if you`re concerned about your future? I suggest you start getting into another job now, you can start driving a Big Rig, cost you nothing, join a trucking company who will pay for your training, and you can make more or the same as you`re making now! People need to use their GOD giving Brain, simple!!!

P.S. You Might Get Your Hands Dirty, But You Can Pay Your Bills, And Fill Your Stomach!!!

"GTP"
View attachment 112929

Driving anything is a short term solution. No longer a good career choice as driverless cars and trucks are going to put millions of drivers out of work in the near future. By near future, I mean less than 20 years and most likely we'll start seeing a big effect in fewer than 10 years.

Yo, I see what you`re saying, BUT? I can`t see a Big Rig going down the highway without a driver!

"GTP"
View attachment 113395

You will.

No driver error and a rig could go coast to coast stopping only for fuel. Modern airplanes can take off, complete their flight and land without a pilot touching hardly a thing.

 

[TomParks]

Yo, how about just getting an EDUCATION, FOOLS!!!

"GTP"
View attachment 112925

I have been getting an education every single day of my life: I am a computer scientist, and I am actually very concerned about the advances in AI, many jobs are going to be destroyed in the next 20 years, it is going to be very hard for people to retool for the kind jobs that will be needed .

Yo, if you`re concerned about your future? I suggest you start getting into another job now, you can start driving a Big Rig, cost you nothing, join a trucking company who will pay for your training, and you can make more or the same as you`re making now! People need to use their GOD giving Brain, simple!!!

P.S. You Might Get Your Hands Dirty, But You Can Pay Your Bills, And Fill Your Stomach!!!

"GTP"
View attachment 112929

Driving anything is a short term solution. No longer a good career choice as driverless cars and trucks are going to put millions of drivers out of work in the near future. By near future, I mean less than 20 years and most likely we'll start seeing a big effect in fewer than 10 years.

Yo, I see what you`re saying, BUT? I can`t see a Big Rig going down the highway without a driver!

"GTP"
View attachment 113395

You will.

No driver error and a rig could go coast to coast stopping only for fuel. Modern airplanes can take off, complete their flight and land without a pilot touching hardly a thing.

Until the computer fails and causes a wreck, or hackers take over the truck. The regulations imposed will be huge

 

[CultureCitizen]

There isn't a magic money tree that can solve all our problems.

Unless you are a banker ...

Doesn't the same argument hold true when income tax is reduced?
Prices should go up because everyone has more money to spend?

First of all, everyone doesn't have more money to spend. Only income tax payers get to keep more of the money they earned. It's not free money that everybody gets. The amounts vary depending on your income and some will get nothing. But, generally speaking, any time the market has more expendable resources it increases demand and if supply remains the same, prices go up. With tax cuts, especially on the top marginal incomes, the results are more supply oriented, businesses are expanded which increases supply. This means lower prices.

A good exercise with proposals such as yours is to amplify them and examine potential results. Why not give everyone $50,000? Or better yet, let's give everybody, including the homeless bums, $500,000! Why wouldn't this be awesome? If your idea is good, this should be phenomenal.... but you can imagine it wouldn't work. Why? Whatever reasons it wouldn't work are true with your proposal as well, all that is different is the scale.

Now, you will notice your proposal isn't very popular. According to the poll, 65% agree with me, there should be no minimum universal income. It's because most mature people who are capable of thinking above a 5-year-old level, understand that nothing is free. There isn't a magic money tree that can solve all our problems.

If production remains the same and the amount of money increases then yes, prices go up. If production and money suply increases are coupled then there is no inflation.

No . Amplifying is not valid Boss. I clearly stated it should not exceed 10% of the GDP.
People get free stuff anyway: education , healthcare, roads. Why not give them the money and let them decide how they use it?
Milton Friedman proposed it instead of welfare. Yes , it could cause inflation, but once again , that same goes for all personal income an payroll taxes.

And no , it isn't ther to solve all problems, just to create a safety net in case of trouble.

 

[Lewdog]

Yo, how about just getting an EDUCATION, FOOLS!!!

"GTP"
View attachment 112925

I have been getting an education every single day of my life: I am a computer scientist, and I am actually very concerned about the advances in AI, many jobs are going to be destroyed in the next 20 years, it is going to be very hard for people to retool for the kind jobs that will be needed .

Many scientist like Hawking think the same...and so does Mark Cuban.

 

[eflatminor]

No , I didn't change it . It is to drill the point that the only thing they achieved was to sabilize the economy.
Furthermore, in spite of Obama's declarations it seems the bailout was much larger and those loans were not fully paid:

The Big Bank Bailout

"In fact, $7.7 trillion of the secret emergency lending was only disclosed to the public after Congress forced a one-time audit of the Federal Reserve in November of 2011. After the audit the public found out the bailout was in trillions not billions; and that there were no requirements attached to the bailout money - the banks could use it for any purpose."

So again, why bail out the banks and not the little folk?

i think we should audit the drug war and our wars on crime, poverty, and terror, instead of the Fed.

Why not all?

the fed is a profit center not a cost center; if there is any exigency at all, it must be with cost centers, first.

A profit center. I've never heard that. What do you mean?

Profit Center

Never thought you meant an actual profit center, as one might find at a for profit company.

I think you're wrong.

The Fed is the entity that in lieu of normal market supply and demand, determines the price of money. They also act as Congress's ATM machine, relieving our hallowed lawmakers from, you know, having to pay for all their fabulous ideas now in exchange for letting future generations pick up the bill for our largess.

I stand against central price controls over anything. But the point is, you seem to misunderstand what the Fed is all about. They are by no means a profit center.

 

[Boss]

There isn't a magic money tree that can solve all our problems.

Unless you are a banker ...

Doesn't the same argument hold true when income tax is reduced?
Prices should go up because everyone has more money to spend?

First of all, everyone doesn't have more money to spend. Only income tax payers get to keep more of the money they earned. It's not free money that everybody gets. The amounts vary depending on your income and some will get nothing. But, generally speaking, any time the market has more expendable resources it increases demand and if supply remains the same, prices go up. With tax cuts, especially on the top marginal incomes, the results are more supply oriented, businesses are expanded which increases supply. This means lower prices.

A good exercise with proposals such as yours is to amplify them and examine potential results. Why not give everyone $50,000? Or better yet, let's give everybody, including the homeless bums, $500,000! Why wouldn't this be awesome? If your idea is good, this should be phenomenal.... but you can imagine it wouldn't work. Why? Whatever reasons it wouldn't work are true with your proposal as well, all that is different is the scale.

Now, you will notice your proposal isn't very popular. According to the poll, 65% agree with me, there should be no minimum universal income. It's because most mature people who are capable of thinking above a 5-year-old level, understand that nothing is free. There isn't a magic money tree that can solve all our problems.

If production remains the same and the amount of money increases then yes, prices go up. If production and money suply increases are coupled then there is no inflation.

No . Amplifying is not valid Boss. I clearly stated it should not exceed 10% of the GDP.
People get free stuff anyway: education , healthcare, roads. Why not give them the money and let them decide how they use it?
Milton Friedman proposed it instead of welfare. Yes , it could cause inflation, but once again , that same goes for all personal income an payroll taxes.

And no , it isn't ther to solve all problems, just to create a safety net in case of trouble.

First of all, banks are simply capitalist businesses who sell the product of money. You can be upset at the Federal Reserve for manipulating interest rates to give an advantage to bankers or politicians who pass legislation to give big banks advantages over smaller competition but the banker is just practicing capitalism like everyone else... they don't have a magic money tree.

Okay... So just because you claim to have tied something to the GDP doesn't mean it's all good. You began with this $5,000 you arbitrarily pulled out of thin air as some kind of baseline and you want to apply this to people who are producers, people who are leaches, people who are crooks and cons, everybody gets it. You've provided NO basis for why it's legitimate because we're supposedly tying it to the GDP somehow.

And you avoided my question... why not $50k or $500k? You'd have all kinds of demand opening up... homeless people would be buying yachts and joining country clubs... business would be booming and the GDP would go through the roof because production would have to increase to meet the insatiable demands of a public with lots of money to spend, right? So why is your idea of $5k genius and my idea of $50k or $500k crazy?

Then you're jumping over to try and sell it by tacitly implying it will be replacing all the assorted other "social welfare" we currently do... and you know that won't be the case in reality. You're not going to get rid of Medicaid and Food Stamps, Disability, WIC, AFDC, Section 8 housing or school lunch programs... you're still going to have those and this is going to be in addition to what we're already providing. Let's not be goofy. Yeah... if we can simultaneously ABOLISH all federal social assistance programs and replace that with a $5k a year "minimum income" check... I'm all for it! But that ain't ever gonna happen and you know that.