What's the plan for Rational Republicans?

[Immanuel]

Did the Democrats ever speak out against the truthers?

What's this racist shit, Democrats are the party of racism you fucking idiot.

Sure they did speak out against the truthers....

Here's what The Nation had to say...
The 9/11 Conspiracy Nuts

Here's what Bill Clinton had to say...
Bill Clinton Takes on 9/11 Truthers at Hillary Fundraiser | NewsBusters.org

Here's what Bill Maher had to say...
Bill Maher Throws 9/11 Truthers Off ‘Real Time’ Set | NewsBusters.org

I could keep going....

You could, but it would do no good with all too many of this bunch. They have their minds made up, and no amount of truth will change it.

Is that really fair to say though? Because the truth is that when anyone of us has made up our minds it is very difficult for someone else to change it. I would not be surprised to find that you are no different in that than most of us.

Note: I said difficult not impossible. When I started posting on political sites I was convinced that everyone who considered themselves "Pro-choice" was evil personified. I've come to realize that is not the case. My mind was made up, but then I found out that I was wrong and I gradually came to discover that a large percentage of "choicers" actually felt much the same way as I do regarding abortion, but felt more strongly than I do about government intervention in a woman's right to choose. I'm still pro-life, but I see many of the arguments of the pro-choice movement in a different light and that has come from my interaction with those with whom I disagree.

Immie

 

[Cecilie1200]

it's a stupid inane question since I'm quite sure "rational" means agreeing with the lunatic left.

Just read his post. Of course that's what he meant. He came right out and TOLD us that was what he meant.

 

[Immanuel]

The religious Right goes too far. They don't know how to separate religious beliefs, from political or social ones. You can't base your reasons for believing in something, both politically and socially, solely on something you learned through your religion. The religious Right does not believe in logic or open discussion. Their beliefs are set in stone well before they could express them. If it was up to the religious Right, science and rational thought would not be existent in modern politics.

The thing about Religion is that it's non-negotiable. In politics, you have to be open to various forms of an answer, at the very least!

Forgive me, but I have to say that you are 100% wrong on that and as a former member of the so-called religious right I am proof of your mistake.

Immie

 

[ihopehefails]

it's a stupid inane question since I'm quite sure "rational" means agreeing with the lunatic left.

No, rational means using logic and one's ability to reason, then accepting whatever conclusion is suggested by careful consideration rather than pre-determining one's conclusions by adopting partisan dogma.

I've so missed you willowtree...How've you been?

Not the way you implied it. What you really mean is that you want America to think one way and one way only and anyone else outside of that "one way" is unreasonable. You simply can handle the fact that other people have a different point of view and seek to deny them that right to have the different point of view.

 

[JakeStarkey]

it's a stupid inane question since I'm quite sure "rational" means agreeing with the lunatic left.

No, rational means using logic and one's ability to reason, then accepting whatever conclusion is suggested by careful consideration rather than pre-determining one's conclusions by adopting partisan dogma.

I've so missed you willowtree...How've you been?

Not the way you implied it. What you really mean is that you want America to think one way and one way only and anyone else outside of that "one way" is unreasonable. You simply can handle the fact that other people have a different point of view and seek to deny them that right to have the different point of view.

ihef, you are simply projecting your own failure at gracefully disagreeing agreeably and allow alternative view points.

 

[foggedinn]

William Buckley is dead. There aren't any rational republicans left. What's left of the Grand Olde Party take their cue from Vince Lombardi. "Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing." I guess they just got tired of being the "loyal opposition".

 

[garyd]

More idiots that have trouble dealing with basic math. McCain seperated himself as best he could from the so-called religious right. That worked out real well for him.

30-40% of self identified conservatives also identify themselves as being religious. GEt back to me on how you plan on winning an election buy jettisoning 30 to 40% of those who vote for you. Those who won't vote for republicans bcause of the religious right are far less numerous than the religious right.

 

[SenseCommon]

More idiots that have trouble dealing with basic math. McCain seperated himself as best he could from the so-called religious right. That worked out real well for him.

30-40% of self identified conservatives also identify themselves as being religious. GEt back to me on how you plan on winning an election buy jettisoning 30 to 40% of those who vote for you. Those who won't vote for republicans bcause of the religious right are far less numerous than the religious right.

Don't be so naive. McCain lost because of George Bush(Right or Wrong). No Republican would have won the 2008 election, because of how the country perceived the job George Bush did while in office. Throw in Sarah Palin as his running mate, and you have the nail in the coffin.

Many Independents(Including me) keep their distance from the Republican party because of the religious Right. Every time someone from the Religious Right justifies their stance on a subject by quoting something from their religious scripture, the credibility of the Republican party is weakened. No rational thought is put into many of the ideals claimed by the religious right. No science, no logic, no open-minded stances. Just strict, non-compromising stances traced back to their religion.

 

[Old Rocks]

Sure they did speak out against the truthers....

Here's what The Nation had to say...
The 9/11 Conspiracy Nuts

Here's what Bill Clinton had to say...
Bill Clinton Takes on 9/11 Truthers at Hillary Fundraiser | NewsBusters.org

Here's what Bill Maher had to say...
Bill Maher Throws 9/11 Truthers Off ‘Real Time’ Set | NewsBusters.org

I could keep going....

You could, but it would do no good with all too many of this bunch. They have their minds made up, and no amount of truth will change it.

Is that really fair to say though? Because the truth is that when anyone of us has made up our minds it is very difficult for someone else to change it. I would not be surprised to find that you are no different in that than most of us.

Note: I said difficult not impossible. When I started posting on political sites I was convinced that everyone who considered themselves "Pro-choice" was evil personified. I've come to realize that is not the case. My mind was made up, but then I found out that I was wrong and I gradually came to discover that a large percentage of "choicers" actually felt much the same way as I do regarding abortion, but felt more strongly than I do about government intervention in a woman's right to choose. I'm still pro-life, but I see many of the arguments of the pro-choice movement in a different light and that has come from my interaction with those with whom I disagree.

Immie

I was mostly refering to our local wingnuts. I know many evangelical conservatives, and have some in my family, that are quite conservative, that have changed their stances on political subjects after having investigated the facts. In fact, some of them are evangelical ministers, and are far less rigid in their political stances than most paint them.

Unfortunately, they are not the ones that are making the noise. In fact, an awful lot of evangelicals claim to speak for all, when they are really in the minority in their faith on an issue. Especially true of the TV Evangelists.

 

[Qball]

Many Independents(Including me) keep their distance from the Republican party because of the religious Right. Every time someone from the Religious Right justifies their stance on a subject by quoting something from their religious scripture, the credibility of the Republican party is weakened. No rational thought is put into many of the ideals claimed by the religious right. No science, no logic, no open-minded stances. Just strict, non-compromising stances traced back to their religion.

Except that it's perfectly fine to base your opinions about issues which have no clear, distinct black-or-white answer on your personal values. It's a bit of a caricature to act like the religious right solely rely on the Bible for their stances. Even if they act like that, it's just for show, because they think openly quoting the Bible makes them look good. Sort of like how when a celebrity or an athlete gets in trouble, they start mentioning God and their "spiritual leaders" and what not.

Besides, there are plenty of liberals who use their subjective, self-realized values to promote their political goals, too. In fact, since politics is rarely about matters of pure objectivity, science, or logic, it's pretty safe to say that they do it, at the very least, as much as the Religious Right.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Oh, and one last thing the GOP must do in order to garner support/power in this country:

SEPARATE YOURSELF FROM THE RELIGIOUS RIGHT!

You didn't say that they have to stop being to the right, politically, so I assume you mean they should all give up their religions. Why would that help?

Politics and religion shouldn't go hand-in-hand. They should be separate entities. Unfortunately, the religious Right mixes up both their political and religious beliefs. Logic doesn't count for much in their eyes.

Have your religion. But keep it out of politics!

Yes, believe what you want, but find a way to believe it without it ever influencing anything you do . . . oh, wait, then it wouldn't be what you believe in.

Dumbass.

 

[SenseCommon]

You didn't say that they have to stop being to the right, politically, so I assume you mean they should all give up their religions. Why would that help?

Politics and religion shouldn't go hand-in-hand. They should be separate entities. Unfortunately, the religious Right mixes up both their political and religious beliefs. Logic doesn't count for much in their eyes.

Have your religion. But keep it out of politics!

Yes, believe what you want, but find a way to believe it without it ever influencing anything you do . . . oh, wait, then it wouldn't be what you believe in.

Dumbass.

No dumb ass,

Beliefs should be based through rational thought, open-mindedness, and science. Sure, things like religion can influence your rational thought, but it shouldn't be the basis for it. Beliefs should be based on a willingness to embrace the fact that nothing is concrete. But unfortunately people like you(Obviously a member of the religious Right) base your beliefs on scripture, quotes, or whatever else you were told to believe when you took on your religion.

If I were to ask a member of the religious Right their stance on Gay-marriage, they would quote a passage from whatever book their religion follows. That's exactly the kind of mindless crap that politics needs to avoid. Give me either scientific, humanistic, or rational social opinion as to why something should or shouldn't be. NOT scripture!

 

[Cecilie1200]

Politics and religion shouldn't go hand-in-hand. They should be separate entities. Unfortunately, the religious Right mixes up both their political and religious beliefs. Logic doesn't count for much in their eyes.

Have your religion. But keep it out of politics!

Yes, believe what you want, but find a way to believe it without it ever influencing anything you do . . . oh, wait, then it wouldn't be what you believe in.

Dumbass.

No dumb ass,

Beliefs should be based through rational thought, open-mindedness, and science. Sure, things like religion can influence your rational thought, but it shouldn't be the basis for it. Beliefs should be based on a willingness to embrace the fact that nothing is concrete. But unfortunately people like you(Obviously a member of the religious Right) base your beliefs on scripture, quotes, or whatever else you were told to believe when you took on your religion.

It is none of your fucking business WHAT other people choose to base their beliefs on, and only a leftist would be so arrogant as to think it is his place to tell people what to believe, why, and what to do about them. Of course, only a leftist would be so arrogant as to put his own personal viewpoints up as an objective standard of "rational thought, open-mindedness, and science". And naturally, only a leftist would presume to tell a complete stranger what their beliefs are "obviously" based on, despite having never been told what those beliefs even are.

I can tell you one thing I believe, though: I believe that you are an unmitigated, navel-gazing, hypocritical ass.

If I were to ask a member of the religious Right their stance on Gay-marriage, they would quote a passage from whatever book their religion follows. That's exactly the kind of mindless crap that politics needs to avoid. Give me either scientific, humanistic, or rational social opinion as to why something should or shouldn't be. NOT scripture!

I do not find it in the slightest bit surprising that you say "IF" you were to ask, and then proceed to tell us what you are sure you would find out, were you ever to pull your head out of your ass and actually make an attempt to find out what people believe, instead of simply assuming that you know.

When the sentence becomes "When I asked members of the religious right what they believed" rather than "If I asked, instead of being a pompous lackwit", you call me. As long as it is "if" and not "when", you have exactly fuck-all to say on the subject of what the religious right believes.

Speaking of mindless crap . . .

 

[SenseCommon]

Yes, believe what you want, but find a way to believe it without it ever influencing anything you do . . . oh, wait, then it wouldn't be what you believe in.

Dumbass.

No dumb ass,

Beliefs should be based through rational thought, open-mindedness, and science. Sure, things like religion can influence your rational thought, but it shouldn't be the basis for it. Beliefs should be based on a willingness to embrace the fact that nothing is concrete. But unfortunately people like you(Obviously a member of the religious Right) base your beliefs on scripture, quotes, or whatever else you were told to believe when you took on your religion.

It is none of your fucking business WHAT other people choose to base their beliefs on, and only a leftist would be so arrogant as to think it is his place to tell people what to believe, why, and what to do about them. Of course, only a leftist would be so arrogant as to put his own personal viewpoints up as an objective standard of "rational thought, open-mindedness, and science". And naturally, only a leftist would presume to tell a complete stranger what their beliefs are "obviously" based on, despite having never been told what those beliefs even are.

I can tell you one thing I believe, though: I believe that you are an unmitigated, navel-gazing, hypocritical ass.

If I were to ask a member of the religious Right their stance on Gay-marriage, they would quote a passage from whatever book their religion follows. That's exactly the kind of mindless crap that politics needs to avoid. Give me either scientific, humanistic, or rational social opinion as to why something should or shouldn't be. NOT scripture!

I do not find it in the slightest bit surprising that you say "IF" you were to ask, and then proceed to tell us what you are sure you would find out, were you ever to pull your head out of your ass and actually make an attempt to find out what people believe, instead of simply assuming that you know.

When the sentence becomes "When I asked members of the religious right what they believed" rather than "If I asked, instead of being a pompous lackwit", you call me. As long as it is "if" and not "when", you have exactly fuck-all to say on the subject of what the religious right believes.

Speaking of mindless crap . . .

How about this:

EVERY TIME I broach the subject of gay marriage with a member of the religious Right, they proceed to quote a passage from scripture as the basis for their LOGIC/REASONING as to why Gay marriage is wrong.

There, is that better?

I'm not telling anyone what they should or shouldn't believe, you over-the-top nut. I'm telling you that religion and politics shouldn't mix. They are separate entities that prevent free thought.

And it's nuts like you who keep people like me away from the Republican party. Because with nuts like you it's never about politics, it's about your religious beliefs.

 

[Immanuel]

You could, but it would do no good with all too many of this bunch. They have their minds made up, and no amount of truth will change it.

Is that really fair to say though? Because the truth is that when anyone of us has made up our minds it is very difficult for someone else to change it. I would not be surprised to find that you are no different in that than most of us.

Note: I said difficult not impossible. When I started posting on political sites I was convinced that everyone who considered themselves "Pro-choice" was evil personified. I've come to realize that is not the case. My mind was made up, but then I found out that I was wrong and I gradually came to discover that a large percentage of "choicers" actually felt much the same way as I do regarding abortion, but felt more strongly than I do about government intervention in a woman's right to choose. I'm still pro-life, but I see many of the arguments of the pro-choice movement in a different light and that has come from my interaction with those with whom I disagree.

Immie

I was mostly refering to our local wingnuts. I know many evangelical conservatives, and have some in my family, that are quite conservative, that have changed their stances on political subjects after having investigated the facts. In fact, some of them are evangelical ministers, and are far less rigid in their political stances than most paint them.

Unfortunately, they are not the ones that are making the noise. In fact, an awful lot of evangelicals claim to speak for all, when they are really in the minority in their faith on an issue. Especially true of the TV Evangelists.

I notice you did not comment on yourself. Ever change your mind on something or does the saying, "You can't teach an old dog new tricks", apply to Old Rocks to?

Also, the REASON I am no longer a member of the Religious Right is because of those absolutely embarrassing TV Evangelists especially the ones like Joel Olsteen, Pat Robertson and the Late Jerry Falwell. Somewhere along the line, they seem to have lost the message of the Word of God.

Immie

 

[foggedinn]

Logical reasoning and rational thought.

Please go out and experience life. You will find out in short order that not 5% of the human experience can be explained by logical reasoning or rational thought. Greater minds than any on this board have ended up in asylums trying to fit their existence into a logical, reasonable framework.

 

[SenseCommon]

Logical reasoning and rational thought.

Please go out and experience life. You will find out in short order that not 5% of the human experience can be explained by logical reasoning or rational thought. Greater minds than any on this board have ended up in asylums trying to fit their existence into a logical, reasonable framework.

Sometimes it's just the shred of hope that maybe logical reasoning and rational thought is a possibility, in which people want. A realm where logical reasoning and rational thought can survive, is much better than a realm where concrete preordained ideals can be justified as legitimate.

It's not perfect. But it's a step in the right direction.

 

[Old Rocks]

Is that really fair to say though? Because the truth is that when anyone of us has made up our minds it is very difficult for someone else to change it. I would not be surprised to find that you are no different in that than most of us.

Note: I said difficult not impossible. When I started posting on political sites I was convinced that everyone who considered themselves "Pro-choice" was evil personified. I've come to realize that is not the case. My mind was made up, but then I found out that I was wrong and I gradually came to discover that a large percentage of "choicers" actually felt much the same way as I do regarding abortion, but felt more strongly than I do about government intervention in a woman's right to choose. I'm still pro-life, but I see many of the arguments of the pro-choice movement in a different light and that has come from my interaction with those with whom I disagree.

Immie

I was mostly refering to our local wingnuts. I know many evangelical conservatives, and have some in my family, that are quite conservative, that have changed their stances on political subjects after having investigated the facts. In fact, some of them are evangelical ministers, and are far less rigid in their political stances than most paint them.

Unfortunately, they are not the ones that are making the noise. In fact, an awful lot of evangelicals claim to speak for all, when they are really in the minority in their faith on an issue. Especially true of the TV Evangelists.

I notice you did not comment on yourself. Ever change your mind on something or does the saying, "You can't teach an old dog new tricks", apply to Old Rocks to?

Also, the REASON I am no longer a member of the Religious Right is because of those absolutely embarrassing TV Evangelists especially the ones like Joel Olsteen, Pat Robertson and the Late Jerry Falwell. Somewhere along the line, they seem to have lost the message of the Word of God.

Immie

LOL. Yes, I have changed my mind on many things. Capital punishment, for one. When young, I had a much more optimistic opinion on the malleability of the human mind. However, as I have gotten older, I have come to realize that there are some people so twisted that, for the safety of the rest of us, they have to be killed, after due process.

I am an agnostic, not because I believe that no one has knowledge of a Diety, but because I personally do not. What other people know, I cannot tell, for I am not a mindreader.

Yes, the TV Evangelists seem to forgotten the lessons of Jewish Carpenter. Sad that these people preach far more the message of Mammon than Christ.

 

[Immanuel]

I was mostly refering to our local wingnuts. I know many evangelical conservatives, and have some in my family, that are quite conservative, that have changed their stances on political subjects after having investigated the facts. In fact, some of them are evangelical ministers, and are far less rigid in their political stances than most paint them.

Unfortunately, they are not the ones that are making the noise. In fact, an awful lot of evangelicals claim to speak for all, when they are really in the minority in their faith on an issue. Especially true of the TV Evangelists.

I notice you did not comment on yourself. Ever change your mind on something or does the saying, "You can't teach an old dog new tricks", apply to Old Rocks to?

Also, the REASON I am no longer a member of the Religious Right is because of those absolutely embarrassing TV Evangelists especially the ones like Joel Olsteen, Pat Robertson and the Late Jerry Falwell. Somewhere along the line, they seem to have lost the message of the Word of God.

Immie

LOL. Yes, I have changed my mind on many things. Capital punishment, for one. When young, I had a much more optimistic opinion on the malleability of the human mind. However, as I have gotten older, I have come to realize that there are some people so twisted that, for the safety of the rest of us, they have to be killed, after due process.

I am an agnostic, not because I believe that no one has knowledge of a Diety, but because I personally do not. What other people know, I cannot tell, for I am not a mindreader.

Yes, the TV Evangelists seem to forgotten the lessons of Jewish Carpenter. Sad that these people preach far more the message of Mammon than Christ.

Funny that you would mention the Death Penalty. I used to have no qualms about it at all until I started listening to all you left wing nuts (not intended as an insult) and discovered that there are more than just a few innocent men on death row.

When it comes to people that we absolutely know are guilty like Charles Manson, I say fry his ass, but when there is even the slightest possibility of a man's innocence I stutter step there. Can you just imagine being accused of a crime you did not commit, convicted, sentenced to death, executed and then have someone else review the evidence and find out that you were in fact innocent?

As for being an agnostic, let me suggest that you keep the channels open. Your lack of knowledge of the deity can be remedied in a heart beat!

Immie

 

[Qball]

Is that really fair to say though? Because the truth is that when anyone of us has made up our minds it is very difficult for someone else to change it. I would not be surprised to find that you are no different in that than most of us.

Note: I said difficult not impossible. When I started posting on political sites I was convinced that everyone who considered themselves "Pro-choice" was evil personified. I've come to realize that is not the case. My mind was made up, but then I found out that I was wrong and I gradually came to discover that a large percentage of "choicers" actually felt much the same way as I do regarding abortion, but felt more strongly than I do about government intervention in a woman's right to choose. I'm still pro-life, but I see many of the arguments of the pro-choice movement in a different light and that has come from my interaction with those with whom I disagree.

Immie

I was mostly refering to our local wingnuts. I know many evangelical conservatives, and have some in my family, that are quite conservative, that have changed their stances on political subjects after having investigated the facts. In fact, some of them are evangelical ministers, and are far less rigid in their political stances than most paint them.

Unfortunately, they are not the ones that are making the noise. In fact, an awful lot of evangelicals claim to speak for all, when they are really in the minority in their faith on an issue. Especially true of the TV Evangelists.

I notice you did not comment on yourself. Ever change your mind on something or does the saying, "You can't teach an old dog new tricks", apply to Old Rocks to?

Also, the REASON I am no longer a member of the Religious Right is because of those absolutely embarrassing TV Evangelists especially the ones like Joel Olsteen, Pat Robertson and the Late Jerry Falwell. Somewhere along the line, they seem to have lost the message of the Word of God.

Immie

Wait, what? How did televangelists make you stop being a member of the "Religious Right"? How are they embarrassing to you?