What's the difference between public school and welfare

[rightwinger]

Where I was taught that a tax-funded benefit given by a government is welfare.

Typical Conservative

Government funding private industry is Patriotic
Government helping the people is WELFARE!

 

[Canon Shooter]

The left supports helping those who need help

Conservatives are more, I got mine, Fuk everyone else

I'm pretty conservative, and I have no problem with helping someone who needs help. It's the decent thing to do.

What I won't do, however, is help someone who could help themselves, but simply chooses not to. I've no use for such people...

 

[Donald H]

Not a lot, really.

Public schools provide different services than other welfare agencies, but each welfare agency provides services that are different than those provided by other welfare agencies.

The most important similarity between public schools and other welfare providers is what many parents are only now discovering: Welfare recipients - such as parents of kids in public schools - do not hold the power over how the welfare distributed. Nor do they pay for the welfare. Welfare recipients are free to gripe about the amount, form, requirements, or whatever. But the agencies providing the welfare have no reason to listen to them. Tax payers pay for welfare and voters elect those who manage it.



Parents get to vote for the school board members, but so does every other adult who lives in the district. So, for the middle-class family with two working parents and three kids in public school, their votes count exactly as much as the vote of the nineteen year-old college freshman lesbian couple who have vowed never to have kids of their own because they are too busy being activists and influencers over how "everyone's" children are educated.

Libertarians warned decades ago, even when public schools were a source of great pride for people of all other political stripes, that when you let government tax "everyone," to provide something for "free," tyranny often follows.

The public school system works very well in other modern countries. I have some ideas on why it's not working in America for anybody who asks.

Some parents pay for the schools through taxes, but no differently than any other taxpayer pays for the schools. Parents don't pay more for having more children in school, nor do they stop paying after their kids graduate.

Do you not understand why that if vitally necessary?

 

[Seymour Flops]

The public school system works very well in other modern countries. I have some ideas on why it's not working in America for anybody who asks.

The public school system does work very well in other modern countries. It's still welfare, subject to go bad at any time with no free market to make natural corrections.

Why do other countries consistently beat American kids who attend liberal-dominated schools at standardized testing?

Do you not understand why that if vitally necessary?

Education is vitally necessary. It is not vital that it be provided by the state, when the state demonstrates that it sucks at it.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Typical Conservative

Government funding private industry is Patriotic
Government helping the people is WELFARE!

I'm libertarian, not conservative. Government funding private industry is WELFARE. Government allowing owners of corporations to avoid personal liability is WELFARE.

Fight your strawmen on another thread.

 

[Likkmee]

Not a lot, really.

Public schools provide different services than other welfare agencies, but each welfare agency provides services that are different than those provided by other welfare agencies.

The most important similarity between public schools and other welfare providers is what many parents are only now discovering: Welfare recipients - such as parents of kids in public schools - do not hold the power over how the welfare distributed. Nor do they pay for the welfare. Welfare recipients are free to gripe about the amount, form, requirements, or whatever. But the agencies providing the welfare have no reason to listen to them. Tax payers pay for welfare and voters elect those who manage it.

Some parents pay for the schools through taxes, but no differently than any other taxpayer pays for the schools. Parents don't pay more for having more children in school, nor do they stop paying after their kids graduate.

Parents get to vote for the school board members, but so does every other adult who lives in the district. So, for the middle-class family with two working parents and three kids in public school, their votes count exactly as much as the vote of the nineteen year-old college freshman lesbian couple who have vowed never to have kids of their own because they are too busy being activists and influencers over how "everyone's" children are educated.

Libertarians warned decades ago, even when public schools were a source of great pride for people of all other political stripes, that when you let government tax "everyone," to provide something for "free," tyranny often follows.

In a home schooled welfare house yo momma kin teach you abouts putting on condoments...wit cho mouff

 

[Canon Shooter]

Letting wealthy business people run things would only lead to $ for them and nothing for anyone else.

That's simply not true. I won two businesses, em,ply over 150 people, and all of them do pretty well...

We do not need a compliant workforce. What we need is a workforce that challenges their employers.

Um, obviously you've never owned a business. A compliant workforce is necessary for a productive workplace. Challenging the boss is fine, so long as the challenge is based in sound reasoning. However, I've been "challenged" for some pretty off the wall reasons, by people who no longer work for me...

One that immediately speaks up when they know their wages are below their productivity.

Something I'm proud of is that every single person who works for me knows they can speak up if they believe they're not being paid what they believe they should. Let's sit down and have that conversation. Sometimes it'll work out and you'll get that raise, other times it won't. But I've never fired anyone who felt they had a legitimate case for a raise...

A workforce that walks off the job when they are being taken advantage of

Well, the thing to keep in mind is that someone thinking they're being taken advantage of does not necessarily equate to them being taken advantage of. If one of my people believes they're being taken advantage of, then they can bring that to their supervisor so we can have that discussion. If someone "walks off the job" and doesn't give us the chance to address their concerns, as far as I'm concerned they just quit...

 

[rightwinger]

The public school system does work very well in other modern countries. It's still welfare, subject to go bad at any time with no free market to make natural corrections.

Why do other countries consistently beat American kids who attend liberal-dominated schools at standardized testing?

Education is vitally necessary. It is not vital that it be provided by the state, when the state demonstrates that it sucks at it.

An educated population benefits the entire country and is not welfare

 

[Seymour Flops]

Letting wealthy business people run things would only lead to $ for them and nothing for anyone else. We do not need a compliant workforce. What we need is a workforce that challenges their employers. One that immediately speaks up when they know their wages are below their productivity. A workforce that walks off the job when they are being taken advantage of

Is that what they are doing now?

Do we have no workers being taken advantage of, because they were taught how to avoid it in public schools?

 

[Canon Shooter]

I never understood the wealthy, who can afford the best, would send their kids away to boarding school.

I would fight like hell to keep my kids with me. They seem to look at kids as a bother

I don't doubt that they love their kids but they, along with their parents and grandparents, were raised by nannies, so I think that's where they get that mindset. They seem to think that boarding school is, somehow, preferable to a nanny in the home.

But I'm with you. I dig my kid. She's a blast to hang out with...

 

[Seymour Flops]

In a home schooled welfare house yo momma kin teach you abouts putting on condoments...wit cho mouff

Put on a condom with my mouth? If I were that flexible, I would have never had to get married!

 

[Seymour Flops]

Is that what they are doing now?

Do we have no workers being taken advantage of, because they were taught how to avoid it in public schools?

The answer,of course, is no.

We have many workers being taken advantage of because they are functionally illiterate to the point that they cannot read their own public school diplomas. We have consumers being taken advantage of because they learned gender equity instead of math in public schools.

 

[rightwinger]

I don't doubt that they love their kids but they, along with their parents and grandparents, were raised by nannies, so I think that's where they get that mindset. They seem to think that boarding school is, somehow, preferable to a nanny in the home.

But I'm with you. I dig my kid. She's a blast to hang out with...

That is another tradition among the wealthy I don’t understand

I can see having a woman who provides babysitting duties but turning over parenting duties to a nanny makes no sense to me.

I enjoyed being around my kids and looked forward to our time together. Sending them off for others to take care of makes no sense

 

[Seymour Flops]

That is another tradition among the wealthy I don’t understand

I can see having a woman who provides babysitting duties but turning over parenting duties to a nanny makes no sense to me.

I enjoyed being around my kids and looked forward to our time together. Sending them off for others to take care of makes no sense

Yet, you're fine with public schools being used as baby sitters.

 

[rightwinger]

Yet, you're fine with public schools being used as baby sitters.

They are not babysitters, they are providing an education by professionals to help your children
Those children come home to their parents every day

 

[Unkotare]

....

Why do other countries consistently beat American kids who attend liberal-dominated schools at standardized testing?

.....

Other countries do not educate ALL students to the extent we do, nor for as long. Other countries compare carefully selected student populations with ALL students in the US.

 

[Seymour Flops]

They are not babysitters, they are providing an education by professionals to help your children
Those children come home to their parents every day

Hopefully, you will not deem these links "alt-right media."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2022/01/08/omicron-working-parents-schools/

In the Covid-19 Economy, You Can Have a Kid or a Job. You Can’t Have Both. (Published 2020)

Our struggle is not an emotional concern. We are not burned out. We are being crushed by an economy that has bafflingly declared working parents inessential.

www.nytimes.com

'This is not working.' Parents juggling jobs and child care under COVID-19 see no good solutions

When the pandemic forced day cares and schools to close across much of the country, the stress of child care fell upon millions of parents of children who feel they must choose between their jobs and kids, often multiple times a day.

www.pbs.org

Those children do not all "come home to their parents every day." Schools typically end at 3:00 to 4:00 PM and are close to the children's homes. Parent typically work until five or later and have anywhere from a half hour to an hour and a half commute. Kids either go from school day-care to after-school daycare, or they go home to let themselves into their empty houses and apartments. So, more typically, parents come home to their kids, or pick them up from second day-care.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Other countries do not educate ALL students to the extent we do, nor for as long. Other countries compare carefully selected student populations with ALL students in the US.

You may well be right. Is that the only reason?

Why do U.S. schools not simply educated all students to the standards of the carefully selected student populations in other countries?

 

[Unkotare]

You may well be right. Is that the only reason?

Why do U.S. schools not simply educated all students to the standards of the carefully selected student populations in other countries?

"Simply"? Not a simple matter.

 

[Seymour Flops]

"Simply"? Not a simple matter.

Ok, simply or complicated, why don't the U.S. public schools educate all children? Is that not their mission?

I thought that was the entire justification for the tax-and-control ideas of public school - to educate all children, not just the children of the rich.