What's the Big Deal About This?

[Disir]

You can't have freedom of religion without freedom from religion.

Well, a lot of them were lawyers, and certainly knew the difference between 'of' and 'from'. In any case, public displays of religion don't violate any freedom from religion. You aren't forced to believe in anything, and freedom of religion covers everybody's rights of free speech as well. Somebody being offended by expressions of Christianity is a not a 'right' being violated.

They were leaving a state religion and one that had led to mass murders and hangings. It's called the Establishment clause and it has a specific meaning. This is why we have a half a dozen different religious displays on public property. Attempting to use the founders is going to be an epic fail on this front. It is an attempt for Christians to violate the Establishment clause through what is called special pleading.

 

[DriftingSand]

Christianity is a kinder and more peaceful religion? Since when?

Actually, I can answer that: since the secular institutions put a choke collar on religion.

You choose to ignore that Christianity was just as violent and intransigent as islam is now. Islam is only 1300 years old, and behaves precisely like a 1300 year old religion has been known to behave. Christianity and Judaism were violent religious entities when they were 1300 years old too, still too committed to childish superstitions and “us vs. them" mentalities. Islam is at that “us vs. them", just more so than Christianity and Judaism currently. Christianity has mellowed on its, “we’re right, we're going to kill you now", mentality about 300 years ago. Judaism, over 2000 years ago (but Judaism is far older than Christianity or Islam). Islam is just ramping up into that phase. All religions go through this, much to the pain and suffering of those innocents unlucky enough to be around them.

In the West, we are citizens of a free society, entitled to free speech and freedom from religion. The fate of our hard won freedoms won't be allowed to slip away at the hands of minority zealots who would wish to roll back the freedoms that we have sacrificed so much to maintain.

The infection of religiously inspired hate and intolerance has had a long history in Western civilization and it came from the church.

The founders were Christian and created a Constitution allowing freedoms previously unheard of in any other nation on earth. Like it or not you have God and our Founding Fathers to thank for your freedom to speak your mind or believe as you wish. I know you hate that but it's true nonetheless.

The first Congress of the USA sponsored the printing of a Bible in the USA and suggested that it be given to the inhabitants of America. The link is in my signature line.

We have Christianity to thank for the Salvation Army, Habitat for Humanity, World Vision, and many, many others. Here in Denver we have the Denver Rescue Mission that feeds thousands of homeless folks each week. They have temporary housing and will help poverty-stricken people get the medical attention than some need.

I realize that you are filled to the brim with hatred for Christ, the Bible, and Christians but if you could wipe the scales from your eyes for just a moment or two you would see that Bible-believing Christians are a great benefit to their fellow man. Just in my area alone I can think of three hospitals founded by Christian denominations: There's a Lutheran hospital, a Presbyterian hospital, and a Catholic hospital. I've yet to see a "Marxist Hospital" or an "Atheist Hospital." Just sayin'.

If you're just sayin', you shouldn't be just sayin' falsehoods. Some of the founding fathers were Christian, some were not. You seem to be confused about the vision of the FF's. They envisioned a long flourishing, pluralistic nation. They knew enough about religion to understand that majority religions are poorly disposed toward competing religions. How interesting that this "Christian nation" as fundies would describe it was established with a muzzle on government interference in the religious matters of the citizenry.

Whether you like it or not, I actually don't have your gods and I'm not forced to kowtow to your gods or anyone else's gods. Thanks to the vision of the FF's, I'm free from your religious beliefs being forced on to the public.

Yes, we have freedom from religion.

I realize your fundamentalist beliefs cause you revulsion for those who don't share your religious beliefs but you need to understand that there are fringe elements in all religions where extremists find those like themselves.

Fundie Christians also have to accept responsibility for the damage to humanity their religion has caused. From the Dark Ages to Inquisitions to televangelists to child abuse syndicates run by the Catholic Church, religions have a history of death and misery in their wake.

Altruism is not proprietary to religions and certainly not to Christianity.

The vast majority of our founders were Christian and you know it. I've proven it time and again. If you like ... I can prove it again.

Despising Christianity isn't going to make it go away. The fact that you're obsessed with it is proof, in and of itself, that it has real power. You're consumed with denigrating and ridiculing it. Unfortunately for you, though, Christians will continue exercising their faith and will continue helping their neighbors. Christ will continue saving the lost and changing lives for the better and no amount of fiery darts from you will change that FACT.

 

[Chuckt]

No one is going to kill anyone for posting a cartoon of Mohammed. If you don;t believe me I will post one and prove it.

Van Gogh worked with the Somali-born writer Ayaan Hirsi Ali to produce the film Submission, which criticized the treatment of women in Islam and aroused controversy among Muslims. On 2 November 2004 he was assassinated by Mohammed Bouyeri, a Dutch-Moroccan Muslim.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theo_van_Gogh_(film_director)

 

[Hollie]

The founders were Christian and created a Constitution allowing freedoms previously unheard of in any other nation on earth. Like it or not you have God and our Founding Fathers to thank for your freedom to speak your mind or believe as you wish. I know you hate that but it's true nonetheless.

The first Congress of the USA sponsored the printing of a Bible in the USA and suggested that it be given to the inhabitants of America. The link is in my signature line.

We have Christianity to thank for the Salvation Army, Habitat for Humanity, World Vision, and many, many others. Here in Denver we have the Denver Rescue Mission that feeds thousands of homeless folks each week. They have temporary housing and will help poverty-stricken people get the medical attention than some need.

I realize that you are filled to the brim with hatred for Christ, the Bible, and Christians but if you could wipe the scales from your eyes for just a moment or two you would see that Bible-believing Christians are a great benefit to their fellow man. Just in my area alone I can think of three hospitals founded by Christian denominations: There's a Lutheran hospital, a Presbyterian hospital, and a Catholic hospital. I've yet to see a "Marxist Hospital" or an "Atheist Hospital." Just sayin'.

If you're just sayin', you shouldn't be just sayin' falsehoods. Some of the founding fathers were Christian, some were not. You seem to be confused about the vision of the FF's. They envisioned a long flourishing, pluralistic nation. They knew enough about religion to understand that majority religions are poorly disposed toward competing religions. How interesting that this "Christian nation" as fundies would describe it was established with a muzzle on government interference in the religious matters of the citizenry.

Whether you like it or not, I actually don't have your gods and I'm not forced to kowtow to your gods or anyone else's gods. Thanks to the vision of the FF's, I'm free from your religious beliefs being forced on to the public.

Yes, we have freedom from religion.

I realize your fundamentalist beliefs cause you revulsion for those who don't share your religious beliefs but you need to understand that there are fringe elements in all religions where extremists find those like themselves.

Fundie Christians also have to accept responsibility for the damage to humanity their religion has caused. From the Dark Ages to Inquisitions to televangelists to child abuse syndicates run by the Catholic Church, religions have a history of death and misery in their wake.

Altruism is not proprietary to religions and certainly not to Christianity.

The vast majority of our founders were Christian and you know it. I've proven it time and again. If you like ... I can prove it again.

Despising Christianity isn't going to make it go away. The fact that you're obsessed with it is proof, in and of itself, that it has real power. You're consumed with denigrating and ridiculing it. Unfortunately for you, though, Christians will continue exercising their faith and will continue helping their neighbors. Christ will continue saving the lost and changing lives for the better and no amount of fiery darts from you will change that FACT.

Interesting no, that the FF's knew Christianity well enough to know that it needed a muzzle to be prevented from interfering in the lives of the citizenry who weren't Christian.

In a very real sense it is you fundies who have anger issues. You recoil in shocked surprise when people on a public discussion board disagree with your beliefs. Don't you think it's childish to promote hate toward those who disagree with your opinions?

I suspect your anger derives from an inability to reconcile your fundamentalist/absolutist beliefs with a waning acceptance of supernaturalism and your partisan gods. As science makes gods less relevant, we see the rise in fundamentalism. Why are fundie Christians so reactionary? Because the adherents sense all around them the growing tide of humanism. Fundies defame the non believers as deserving only of revulsion because your beliefs are exclusionary and divisive. And as time goes by, and gods don’t return to this earth, as gods don’t prove salvation, we grow yet further away from fantasy and fiction. And that terrifies the believers. As mankind grows in scientific knowledge, those things once ascribed to the gods are taken away, leaving the believers only hate and fear.

 

[Chuckt]

In a very real sense it is you fundies who have anger issues. You recoil in shocked surprise when people on a public discussion board disagree with your beliefs. Don't you think it's childish to promote hate toward those who disagree with your opinions?

I suspect your anger derives from an inability to reconcile your fundamentalist/absolutist beliefs with a waning acceptance of supernaturalism and your partisan gods. As science makes gods less relevant, we see the rise in fundamentalism. Why are fundie Christians so reactionary? Because the adherents sense all around them the growing tide of humanism. Fundies defame the non believers as deserving only of revulsion because your beliefs are exclusionary and divisive. And as time goes by, and gods don’t return to this earth, as gods don’t prove salvation, we grow yet further away from fantasy and fiction. And that terrifies the believers. As mankind grows in scientific knowledge, those things once ascribed to the gods are taken away, leaving the believers only hate and fear.

Hollie,

Conversation is a bit more complex because there are six people involved between every two people; The person I know I am and the person you know you are. The person I think you are and the person you think I am, what you think I am thinking about you and what I think you are thinking about me.

Conflict is not natural for everyone. What may be okay and tolerant to you may be entirely offensive to someone else. When people think something is not relevant for discussion can be construed as disrespect. What you may not understand is someone's stress level and you may not understand what the stress level is from being a Christian and not living up to other people's expectations to conversation with other people that would give entirely normal people PTSD from the ridicule that there is in being a Christian. Why don't you try being a Christian for a week and see how well you handle it

The other problems with talking over the internet is that you can't understand the tone of the conversation, inflection of voice, etc.

Try to be more sensitive and don't consider yourself not guilty because it takes two to make a fight.

Chuck

 

[thebrucebeat]

And what? That means they're absolved or something and gives them Sniveling Rights?

It means all religions mark their territory by peeing on the faith that came before them.
Christianity was no different.

So you didn't really have a point, just a vague attempt at some sort of 'moral equivalency' hubris. Okay.

No, that is the point.
How can equivalency be hubris?

 

[Chuckt]

In a very real sense it is you fundies who have anger issues. You recoil in shocked surprise when people on a public discussion board disagree with your beliefs. Don't you think it's childish to promote hate toward those who disagree with your opinions?

I suspect your anger derives from an inability to reconcile your fundamentalist/absolutist beliefs with a waning acceptance of supernaturalism and your partisan gods. As science makes gods less relevant, we see the rise in fundamentalism. Why are fundie Christians so reactionary? Because the adherents sense all around them the growing tide of humanism. Fundies defame the non believers as deserving only of revulsion because your beliefs are exclusionary and divisive. And as time goes by, and gods don’t return to this earth, as gods don’t prove salvation, we grow yet further away from fantasy and fiction. And that terrifies the believers. As mankind grows in scientific knowledge, those things once ascribed to the gods are taken away, leaving the believers only hate and fear.

On the other side of the coin, it is people who become irrational, go postal and have anger issues when I tell them I'm a Christian. I had a friend who invited me along because he met these guys who he thought would beat him up once he told them he was a Christian and they got very angry.

I was sitting in my seat in college and a big man lunged at me knocking me and my desk over at college. It is thing like that which happen to us unexpectedly.

Just go on google, click on news and type in "church arson", "church vandalism", etc., and you will get a news story without fail every day of the week.

 

[DriftingSand]

Christianity is a kinder and more peaceful religion? Since when?

Actually, I can answer that: since the secular institutions put a choke collar on religion.

You choose to ignore that Christianity was just as violent and intransigent as islam is now. Islam is only 1300 years old, and behaves precisely like a 1300 year old religion has been known to behave. Christianity and Judaism were violent religious entities when they were 1300 years old too, still too committed to childish superstitions and “us vs. them" mentalities. Islam is at that “us vs. them", just more so than Christianity and Judaism currently. Christianity has mellowed on its, “we’re right, we're going to kill you now", mentality about 300 years ago. Judaism, over 2000 years ago (but Judaism is far older than Christianity or Islam). Islam is just ramping up into that phase. All religions go through this, much to the pain and suffering of those innocents unlucky enough to be around them.

In the West, we are citizens of a free society, entitled to free speech and freedom from religion. The fate of our hard won freedoms won't be allowed to slip away at the hands of minority zealots who would wish to roll back the freedoms that we have sacrificed so much to maintain.

The infection of religiously inspired hate and intolerance has had a long history in Western civilization and it came from the church.

The founders were Christian and created a Constitution allowing freedoms previously unheard of in any other nation on earth. Like it or not you have God and our Founding Fathers to thank for your freedom to speak your mind or believe as you wish. I know you hate that but it's true nonetheless.

The first Congress of the USA sponsored the printing of a Bible in the USA and suggested that it be given to the inhabitants of America. The link is in my signature line.

We have Christianity to thank for the Salvation Army, Habitat for Humanity, World Vision, and many, many others. Here in Denver we have the Denver Rescue Mission that feeds thousands of homeless folks each week. They have temporary housing and will help poverty-stricken people get the medical attention than some need.

I realize that you are filled to the brim with hatred for Christ, the Bible, and Christians but if you could wipe the scales from your eyes for just a moment or two you would see that Bible-believing Christians are a great benefit to their fellow man. Just in my area alone I can think of three hospitals founded by Christian denominations: There's a Lutheran hospital, a Presbyterian hospital, and a Catholic hospital. I've yet to see a "Marxist Hospital" or an "Atheist Hospital." Just sayin'.

About that congress:

A quick note before getting into the book excerpt below: Because I went in chronological order, the chapter begins with the myth that the Continental Congress imported Bibles in 1777. This other story, about an earlier unfulfilled request to Congress to import Bibles during the war, made by a Rev. Alison, is referenced a few times in the story of the 1782 Aitken Bible. This is because some of the revisionists, including Barton, attempt to connect these two stories, even though there is absolutely no connection between them. All you really need to know for the purposes of understanding these references in this excerpt is that the Continental Congress did not import any Bibles in 1777, but if you do want to read the whole 1777 Bible story, the entire "Congress and the Bible" chapter is available as a sample chapter PDF on my website. (And for any history geeks or skeptics who want to verify my sources, you can also view images of all the documents cited in my footnotes in my footnote archive. I've left the footnote numbers here as they are numbered in the book so they correspond with the numbers in the archive.)

Now, on to the story:

| No, Mr. Beck, Congress Did Not Print a Bible for the Use of Schools

Again ... look at my signature line and click the link. It will take you to an official, government site called "The Library of Congress." Then read what it says. Congress DID sponsor the printing of the first Bible printed in America. Continue reading down and you will likely be shocked to see just how Christian this country really was in the beginning. I know you don't want to believe it but facts are facts and I suspect that anyone interested in the truth would be interested to know that their public school teachers likely lied to them.

I've led you to the water ... it's up to you to drink.

 

[DriftingSand]

Like him or not David Barton points out some facts that most don't know or don't want to know:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeIMmXJets0]The U.S. Capitol tour with David Barton - YouTube[/ame]

 

[DriftingSand]

For anyone interested. I don't mean to derail this thread so I'll end with this video.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkJwwtxGJMs]Quotes from our Christian Founding Fathers - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Hollie]

Like him or not David Barton points out some facts that most don't know or don't want to know:

The U.S. Capitol tour with David Barton - YouTube

It's already been determined that David Barton is a charlatan and a fraud.

 

[Hollie]

The founders were Christian and created a Constitution allowing freedoms previously unheard of in any other nation on earth. Like it or not you have God and our Founding Fathers to thank for your freedom to speak your mind or believe as you wish. I know you hate that but it's true nonetheless.

The first Congress of the USA sponsored the printing of a Bible in the USA and suggested that it be given to the inhabitants of America. The link is in my signature line.

We have Christianity to thank for the Salvation Army, Habitat for Humanity, World Vision, and many, many others. Here in Denver we have the Denver Rescue Mission that feeds thousands of homeless folks each week. They have temporary housing and will help poverty-stricken people get the medical attention than some need.

I realize that you are filled to the brim with hatred for Christ, the Bible, and Christians but if you could wipe the scales from your eyes for just a moment or two you would see that Bible-believing Christians are a great benefit to their fellow man. Just in my area alone I can think of three hospitals founded by Christian denominations: There's a Lutheran hospital, a Presbyterian hospital, and a Catholic hospital. I've yet to see a "Marxist Hospital" or an "Atheist Hospital." Just sayin'.

About that congress:

A quick note before getting into the book excerpt below: Because I went in chronological order, the chapter begins with the myth that the Continental Congress imported Bibles in 1777. This other story, about an earlier unfulfilled request to Congress to import Bibles during the war, made by a Rev. Alison, is referenced a few times in the story of the 1782 Aitken Bible. This is because some of the revisionists, including Barton, attempt to connect these two stories, even though there is absolutely no connection between them. All you really need to know for the purposes of understanding these references in this excerpt is that the Continental Congress did not import any Bibles in 1777, but if you do want to read the whole 1777 Bible story, the entire "Congress and the Bible" chapter is available as a sample chapter PDF on my website. (And for any history geeks or skeptics who want to verify my sources, you can also view images of all the documents cited in my footnotes in my footnote archive. I've left the footnote numbers here as they are numbered in the book so they correspond with the numbers in the archive.)

Now, on to the story:

| No, Mr. Beck, Congress Did Not Print a Bible for the Use of Schools

Again ... look at my signature line and click the link. It will take you to an official, government site called "The Library of Congress." Then read what it says. Congress DID sponsor the printing of the first Bible printed in America. Continue reading down and you will likely be shocked to see just how Christian this country really was in the beginning. I know you don't want to believe it but facts are facts and I suspect that anyone interested in the truth would be interested to know that their public school teachers likely lied to them.

I've led you to the water ... it's up to you to drink.

This was refuted previously. Congress never sponsored printing of bibles.

 

[Hollie]

Like him or not David Barton points out some facts that most don't know or don't want to know:

Encyclopedia of American Loons: #14: David Barton



You know, David Barton has a reputation for inventing quotes, but this is ridiculous ? Pharyngula



Fact Checking Barton Part II: Constitution Explicitly References Religion | Right Wing Watch

 

[Disir]

The founders were Christian and created a Constitution allowing freedoms previously unheard of in any other nation on earth. Like it or not you have God and our Founding Fathers to thank for your freedom to speak your mind or believe as you wish. I know you hate that but it's true nonetheless.

The first Congress of the USA sponsored the printing of a Bible in the USA and suggested that it be given to the inhabitants of America. The link is in my signature line.

We have Christianity to thank for the Salvation Army, Habitat for Humanity, World Vision, and many, many others. Here in Denver we have the Denver Rescue Mission that feeds thousands of homeless folks each week. They have temporary housing and will help poverty-stricken people get the medical attention than some need.

I realize that you are filled to the brim with hatred for Christ, the Bible, and Christians but if you could wipe the scales from your eyes for just a moment or two you would see that Bible-believing Christians are a great benefit to their fellow man. Just in my area alone I can think of three hospitals founded by Christian denominations: There's a Lutheran hospital, a Presbyterian hospital, and a Catholic hospital. I've yet to see a "Marxist Hospital" or an "Atheist Hospital." Just sayin'.

About that congress:

A quick note before getting into the book excerpt below: Because I went in chronological order, the chapter begins with the myth that the Continental Congress imported Bibles in 1777. This other story, about an earlier unfulfilled request to Congress to import Bibles during the war, made by a Rev. Alison, is referenced a few times in the story of the 1782 Aitken Bible. This is because some of the revisionists, including Barton, attempt to connect these two stories, even though there is absolutely no connection between them. All you really need to know for the purposes of understanding these references in this excerpt is that the Continental Congress did not import any Bibles in 1777, but if you do want to read the whole 1777 Bible story, the entire "Congress and the Bible" chapter is available as a sample chapter PDF on my website. (And for any history geeks or skeptics who want to verify my sources, you can also view images of all the documents cited in my footnotes in my footnote archive. I've left the footnote numbers here as they are numbered in the book so they correspond with the numbers in the archive.)

Now, on to the story:

| No, Mr. Beck, Congress Did Not Print a Bible for the Use of Schools

Again ... look at my signature line and click the link. It will take you to an official, government site called "The Library of Congress." Then read what it says. Congress DID sponsor the printing of the first Bible printed in America. Continue reading down and you will likely be shocked to see just how Christian this country really was in the beginning. I know you don't want to believe it but facts are facts and I suspect that anyone interested in the truth would be interested to know that their public school teachers likely lied to them.

I've led you to the water ... it's up to you to drink.

To drink what? Aitkin petitioned Congress for permission to publish the Bible. That's it. Nothing more and nothing less. Then when he realized that he was going to lose beau-coup bucks he tried to pawn them off. Nothing more and nothing less. That is the truth.

And Barton is a liar. A notorious liar.

 

[DriftingSand]

Like him or not David Barton points out some facts that most don't know or don't want to know:

The U.S. Capitol tour with David Barton - YouTube

It's already been determined that David Barton is a charlatan and a fraud.

No. What's been determined is that Barton failed to properly back up a couple of claims. The vast majority of his hard work is verifiable and accurate. He's an honest, hard working historian of a very high caliber.

 

[DriftingSand]

About that congress:


| No, Mr. Beck, Congress Did Not Print a Bible for the Use of Schools

Again ... look at my signature line and click the link. It will take you to an official, government site called "The Library of Congress." Then read what it says. Congress DID sponsor the printing of the first Bible printed in America. Continue reading down and you will likely be shocked to see just how Christian this country really was in the beginning. I know you don't want to believe it but facts are facts and I suspect that anyone interested in the truth would be interested to know that their public school teachers likely lied to them.

I've led you to the water ... it's up to you to drink.

To drink what? Aitkin petitioned Congress for permission to publish the Bible. That's it. Nothing more and nothing less. Then when he realized that he was going to lose beau-coup bucks he tried to pawn them off. Nothing more and nothing less. That is the truth.

And Barton is a liar. A notorious liar.

You obviously failed to open the link. Squeeze your eyes real tight and maybe the truth will just up and go away. Barton is a really good person. I've met him and heard him speak and have seen some of the original documents that back up his claims. Defamation of character simply doesn't work these days. All ANYONE has to do is go the Wallbuilder's site and view many of the original documents for themselves.

WallBuilders | Presenting America's forgotten history and heroes, with an emphasis on our moral, religious, and constitutional heritage.

I post this link, not for the idiots who refuse to read, but for you lurkers who are truly interested in the truth. See for yourself.

 

[Hollie]

Like him or not David Barton points out some facts that most don't know or don't want to know:

The U.S. Capitol tour with David Barton - YouTube

It's already been determined that David Barton is a charlatan and a fraud.

No. What's been determined is that Barton failed to properly back up a couple of claims. The vast majority of his hard work is verifiable and accurate. He's an honest, hard working historian of a very high caliber.

Barton failed to properly back up a couple of claims?

He's a hack who has been derided as a charlatan and a fraud. It's obvious why he appeals to religious zealots but honestly, are you at all curious why fundie zealots have become a laughing stock?


A Debunking of Pseudo-Historian David Barton's Book on the Second Amendment

Chris Rodda: A Debunking of Pseudo-Historian David Barton's Book on the Second Amendment



Barton?s Bunk: Religious Right ?Historian? Hits the Big Time in Tea Party America | People For the American Way

Barton has been profitably peddling a distorted “Christian nation” version of American history to conservative religious audiences for the past two decades. His books and videos denouncing church-state separation have been repeatedly debunked by respected historians, but that hasn’t kept Barton from becoming a folk hero for many in the Religious Right. His eagerness to help elect Republicans has won him gratitude and support from national as well as state and local GOP leaders. Former senator Sam Brownback, now the governor of Kansas, has said that Barton’s research “provides the philosophical underpinning for a lot of the Republican effort in the country today – bringing God back into the public square.” Indeed, Time Magazine named him one of the nation’s 25 most influential evangelical Christians in 2005.

 

[DriftingSand]

And Barton is a liar. A notorious liar.

Since you've decided to call Barton a liar please point out ONE SINGLE LIE he told in the above video. I GUARANTEE you that you can't. And if you can't then that make you a liar ... not Barton. I'll be waiting.

That goes for you too, Holly.

 

[Hollie]

Again ... look at my signature line and click the link. It will take you to an official, government site called "The Library of Congress." Then read what it says. Congress DID sponsor the printing of the first Bible printed in America. Continue reading down and you will likely be shocked to see just how Christian this country really was in the beginning. I know you don't want to believe it but facts are facts and I suspect that anyone interested in the truth would be interested to know that their public school teachers likely lied to them.

I've led you to the water ... it's up to you to drink.

To drink what? Aitkin petitioned Congress for permission to publish the Bible. That's it. Nothing more and nothing less. Then when he realized that he was going to lose beau-coup bucks he tried to pawn them off. Nothing more and nothing less. That is the truth.

And Barton is a liar. A notorious liar.

You obviously failed to open the link. Squeeze your eyes real tight and maybe the truth will just up and go away. Barton is a really good person. I've met him and heard him speak and have seen some of the original documents that back up his claims. Defamation of character simply doesn't work these days. All ANYONE has to do is go the Wallbuilder's site and view many of the original documents for themselves.

WallBuilders | Presenting America's forgotten history and heroes, with an emphasis on our moral, religious, and constitutional heritage.

I post this link, not for the idiots who refuse to read, but for you lurkers who are truly interested in the truth. See for yourself.

David Barton: master of myth and misinformation

David Barton
Master of myth and misinformation

Despite its proven track record of success, separation of church and state is increasingly becoming just another target for the Religious Right's smear campaign strategists. In the past few years, an entire cottage industry has sprung up in Religious Right circles that seeks to "prove" that mainstream history is all wrong. The United States was really founded to be a fundamentalist Christian nation. Separation of church and state was never intended; it was, these far-right activists allege, foisted on the country by the Supreme Court in recent times.

The Religious Right's leading practitioner of this type of historical revisionism is David Barton, who runs an outfit called WallBuilders out of Aledo, Texas.1 Barton makes a lucrative living traveling the right wing's lecture circuit where he offers up a cut-and-paste version of U.S. history liberally sprinkled with gross distortions and, in some cases, outright factual errors. Crowds of fundamentalist Christians from coast to coast can't get enough of it.

Barton's propaganda frequently leaches into the secular media. Fundamentalist activists who have read his self-published books or watched his videotape "America's Godly Heritage" use the material to attack separation of church and state in local newspapers through letters to the editor and opinion columns. Religious Right-backed candidates spout Barton's history as they seek public office.

 

[Hollie]

And Barton is a liar. A notorious liar.

Since you've decided to call Barton a liar please point out ONE SINGLE LIE he told in the above video. I GUARANTEE you that you can't. And if you can't then that make you a liar ... not Barton. I'll be waiting.

That goes for you too, Holly.

A GUARANTEE from a Barton groupie.

He ya' go. If you want more lies exposed from Barton, let me know.

I'll expect an apology for the lies you promote.

Debunking David Barton's Jefferson Lies (Because They Still Need to Be Debunked) | Chris Rodda