What's going wrong with America!

[Markainion]

Anyway I am new to this site, so I am going to start telling you what I think is going wrong with America.


First of all you need to recognize that we have put our country into a dangerous position. The liberal side believes that most Americans (whites) should feel bad about our countries past. Most don’t believe that this country had the right exist in the first place, not to mention having a position of strong influence on the world. What happened to Native Americans is the core reason for these beliefs, followed by African American Slavery.

So with respect to illegal aliens and immigration, liberals tend to believe that they must tolerate it, so this country can make up for the “white man’s sin”, its’ past relationship with minorities. . They don’t care if most illegal aliens or immigrants come from either Latin America or Asia, regions in which America has had historical little influence over. It’s a race issue to them, and even the fact that most Hispanic American are decedents of Spaniard the first European colonial power, the liberals somehow forgive Latin American countries from their past sins, and focus on the Western European countries instead.

A common liberal belief is that most wealthy countries in this world, stole their wealth from the weaker regions in the world, this was achieved first by colonization and is being currently maintained by globalization. Liberals tend to forget that hard work, investment, and inventions were also responsible for the rise of Europe, and so don’t focus on education or other forms of investment as being of much value. Liberals do believe that if American were more racially balanced, however, that America would somehow become a great influence for good in the world. They tend to forget that mankind has exploited one another for thousands of years before most of our ancestors even knew that their were people how looked racially different.

Conservatives on the other hand who have traditionally built up American, believing in investment and national development as core values. Have suffered a major setback to their beliefs in recent years, liberal’s guilt trips. These guilt trips have resulted in Liberals gaining the keys to American’s future and leaving conservative to focus on their second most important value, greed and the accumulation of wealth. With conservatives now focusing mostly on themselves, illegal immigrants suddenly just become a source of cheep labor, and outsourcing jobs simple become a means to make more money.

What this adds up to is that most Americans now focus on themselves and care little for the future or even the rest of the world. The few who really pay attention to what’s going on either don’t have the power to stop it, or feel that they can benefit form it. The rich conservatives are positioning themselves for the global market place and diversifying their funds through out the world (Bill Gates and Warren Buffet), and preparing themselves for what ever comes. The liberal are simply waiting for their chance to seize control, and chance America into the country they believe it should be (a minority dominate country).

The result, in the future the White American that have the means and the education will flee back to the soon to be largely depopulated European countries (low birth rates), and the rest this countries remaining bright minds will flee to what ever other country they can get into. Leaving the liberals to scratch their head, wondering how they let the conservatism outplay them again. With America by then being heavily indebted to the world (high trade deficit) and incapable of maintaining the quality of life they had become use to (to much global outsourcing).

 

[Comrade]

Hi Markainion, Welcome. Let me comment on your post.

Anyway I am new to this site, so I am going to start telling you what I think is going wrong with America.

First of all you need to recognize that we have put our country into a dangerous position. The liberal side believes that most Americans (whites) should feel bad about our countries past. Most don’t believe that this country had the right exist in the first place, not to mention having a position of strong influence on the world. What happened to Native Americans is the core reason for these beliefs, followed by African American Slavery.

I wouldn't feel bad about warring upon Native American tribes, as they, along with the rest of the known human world at the time, did so ruthlessly upon each other for thousands of years. The Indian tribes were just as barbaric as the worst of humanity, carrying out torture, rape, kidnapping, murder, as a way of survival... they were certainly nothing like the peace-loving utopia Leftists worship them for, that's for sure.

African slave trade? Africans are the first people to practice slavery, as well as one of the last remaining places on Earth. It existed far before 'whitey' started exploring the dark continent. America was the last country to practice slavery and the first to eliminate it (in several states). So why feel guilty.

So with respect to illegal aliens and immigration, liberals tend to believe that they must tolerate it, so this country can make up for the “white man’s sin”, its’ past relationship with minorities.

The reason Liberals pander so is to secure votes from illegal aliens and disaffected minorities by promising them money in exchange for their own power. For people like Kerry and Dean, it's not what they really believe that counts, it's the means to the end for obtaining power through minority votes.

They don’t care if most illegal aliens or immigrants come from either Latin America or Asia, regions in which America has had historical little influence over.

That's true, but Liberals don't do well at all with immigrants from Cuba, Eastern Europe, or even Russia, since most of the immigrants from genuinely socialist states are well aware of the promises and eventual fate Liberals (ie. Socialists) deliver. That should be a lesson to all immigrants, who do have their own opinions, and do eventually become Republicans (at least the legal, successful immigrants.)

It’s a race issue to them, and even the fact that most Hispanic American are decedents of Spaniard the first European colonial power, the liberals somehow forgive Latin American countries from their past sins, and focus on the Western European countries instead.

The liberals focus on Western European countries like France and Germany because they generally represent the type of stagnant, nanny state they wish upon America. And it's no surprise that the UN is like a gleaming tower of Babel to them all, liberals of America, Europe, and despots of the Middle East... all of them.

A common liberal belief is that most wealthy countries in this world, stole their wealth from the weaker regions in the world, this was achieved first by colonization and is being currently maintained by globalization.

This is such a ridiculous argument from the Liberals.

It's almost like there's some valley in Western Africa which grows these poppies full of golden microchips.

It's the Judeo-Christian society which dominated and then created all forms of wealth today (including oil as a commodity), as long as you remember that, you'll be well grounded in history.

Liberals tend to forget that hard work, investment, and inventions were also responsible for the rise of Europe, and so don’t focus on education or other forms of investment as being of much value. Liberals do believe that if American were more racially balanced, however, that America would somehow become a great influence for good in the world. They tend to forget that mankind has exploited one another for thousands of years before most of our ancestors even knew that their were people how looked racially different.

Conservatives on the other hand who have traditionally built up American, believing in investment and national development as core values. Have suffered a major setback to their beliefs in recent years, liberal’s guilt trips. These guilt trips have resulted in Liberals gaining the keys to American’s future and leaving conservative to focus on their second most important value, greed and the accumulation of wealth. With conservatives now focusing mostly on themselves, illegal immigrants suddenly just become a source of cheep labor, and outsourcing jobs simple become a means to make more money.

I'd say that Congress, the Senate, the Executive Office, and soon to be the Supreme Court are ran by Conservatives, who hold the keys to pretty much everything in America. Don't you agree?

What this adds up to is that most Americans now focus on themselves and care little for the future or even the rest of the world.

America is not an isolationist country anymore. You think we are spending Billions to liberate several countries after 9-11 for oil? Be carefull before you attack 'most Americans' and Liberals in the same breath, before you realize Liberals are a minority in this country, especially since Bush's last re-election.

The few who really pay attention to what’s going on either don’t have the power to stop it, or feel that they can benefit form it. The rich conservatives are positioning themselves for the global market place and diversifying their funds through out the world (Bill Gates and Warren Buffet), and preparing themselves for what ever comes. The liberal are simply waiting for their chance to seize control, and chance America into the country they believe it should be (a minority dominate country).

Neither the far right, or the far left will ever dominate American politics. And never have. I'd stop worrying about the eventual 'race war' and start focusing on your own personal education in politics, which you will find enriched by time spent reading posts at this board.

The result, in the future the White American that have the means and the education will flee back to the soon to be largely depopulated European countries (low birth rates), and the rest this countries remaining bright minds will flee to what ever other country they can get into.

I can't imagine one single American who would 'flee' to Europe, not in my neighborhood. Like I said, you might not live long enough to see your terrible prediction come true.

Leaving the liberals to scratch their head, wondering how they let the conservatism outplay them again. With America by then being heavily indebted to the world (high trade deficit) and incapable of maintaining the quality of life they had become use to (to much global outsourcing).

Yeah, I don't think it's going to happen in my lifetime. And unless you're already packed and bought your plane ticket, then don't expect me to get too excited yet.

Anyway, I like alot of what you say, and hope you'll explain your arguments more so we can pick your brain a bit more. Welcome to the board.

 

[SmarterThanYou]

I wouldn't feel bad about warring upon Native American tribes, as they, along with the rest of the known human world at the time, did so ruthlessly upon each other for thousands of years. The Indian tribes were just as barbaric as the worst of humanity, carrying out torture, rape, kidnapping, murder, as a way of survival... they were certainly nothing like the peace-loving utopia Leftists worship them for, that's for sure.

where did you get your misinformation on the tribes because its damn near completely false.

 

[Said1]

where did you get your misinformation on the tribes because its damn near completely false.

Some were, some were not you know they fought amongst each other. The same can be said about aboriginals in Amazonia, some are more peaceful then other more aggressive tribal units. This of course is a very simplistic reply, not intended to cover all problems existing within aboriginal cultures now and then.

 

[SmarterThanYou]

Some were, some were not you know they fought amongst each other. The same can be said about aboriginals in Amazonia, some are more peaceful then other more aggressive tribal units. This of course is a very simplistic reply, not intended to cover all problems existing within aboriginal cultures now and then.

Most of the tribes were peaceful. Of those tribes, the only times of warring against other tribes were over territory. The handful of tribes that weren't peaceful, like the pawnee for one, were the usual instigators of warfare between tribes. To lump all the tribes as 'barbaric and savage' because of the nature of a few would be like lumping all republicans as chickenhawks and warmongers, because of a few.

 

[mrsx]

"African slave trade? Africans are the first people to practice slavery, as well as one of the last remaining places on Earth. It existed far before 'whitey' started exploring the dark continent. America was the last country to practice slavery and the first to eliminate it (in several states). So why feel guilty."

These are excellent points and show the futility of feeling anything - especially guilt - over something that happened before any of us were born. Of course, by the same token, we don't have any right to feel proud about the Constitution created by our forefathers or the sacrifice of the heroes who have died to keep us free. We didn't do any of that either.

What does make some sense for us is to recognize the facts -not the feelings- about slavery and freedom in our history. The former has left us with some pretty ugly problems; the latter with the solution to some of those problems (if we can figure out how to implement it).

One thing that does trouble me though is our increasingly bi-polar wealth distribution. Democracy in the sense of political equality, flourishes best in conditions of moderate social equality. That a few are getting richer while a lot are getting poorer - the richest 1% of America owns more than the poorest 50% put together - threatens our political system. The poor, naturally want to use their votes to raise their living standards through government programs. The rich, who equally naturally don't want to see their resources confiscated for redistribution, must find ways to manipulate the system so that they can overcome the potentially much larger number of poor voters. Folks in the middle don't know whether to scratch their watches or wind their asses. Their heads point in one direction, their hearts in another and no one is talking straight any more.

 

[dmp]

"African slave trade? Africans are the first people to practice slavery, as well as one of the last remaining places on Earth. It existed far before 'whitey' started exploring the dark continent. America was the last country to practice slavery and the first to eliminate it (in several states). So why feel guilty."

These are excellent points and show the futility of feeling anything - especially guilt - over something that happened before any of us were born. Of course, by the same token, we don't have any right to feel proud about the Constitution created by our forefathers or the sacrifice of the heroes who have died to keep us free. We didn't do any of that either.

What does make some sense for us is to recognize the facts -not the feelings- about slavery and freedom in our history. The former has left us with some pretty ugly problems; the latter with the solution to some of those problems (if we can figure out how to implement it).

One thing that does trouble me though is our increasingly bi-polar wealth distribution. Democracy in the sense of political equality, flourishes best in conditions of moderate social equality. That a few are getting richer while a lot are getting poorer - the richest 1% of America owns more than the poorest 50% put together - threatens our political system. The poor, naturally want to use their votes to raise their living standards through government programs. The rich, who equally naturally don't want to see their resources confiscated for redistribution, must find ways to manipulate the system so that they can overcome the potentially much larger number of poor voters. Folks in the middle don't know whether to scratch their watches or wind their asses. Their heads point in one direction, their hearts in another and no one is talking straight any more.

The only problems left from slavery are by those who won't let go of slavery...see: Jessie Jackson, Al Sharpton, etc...

 

[SmarterThanYou]

The only problems left from slavery are by those who won't let go of slavery...see: Jessie Jackson, Al Sharpton, etc...

 

[5stringJeff]

One thing that does trouble me though is our increasingly bi-polar wealth distribution. Democracy in the sense of political equality, flourishes best in conditions of moderate social equality. That a few are getting richer while a lot are getting poorer - the richest 1% of America owns more than the poorest 50% put together - threatens our political system. The poor, naturally want to use their votes to raise their living standards through government programs. The rich, who equally naturally don't want to see their resources confiscated for redistribution, must find ways to manipulate the system so that they can overcome the potentially much larger number of poor voters. Folks in the middle don't know whether to scratch their watches or wind their asses. Their heads point in one direction, their hearts in another and no one is talking straight any more.

The rich own more than the poor?!? Of course they do! That's the definition of rich and poor! Good for the rich people for working hard and getting rich!

 

[Said1]

Most of the tribes were peaceful. Of those tribes, the only times of warring against other tribes were over territory. The handful of tribes that weren't peaceful, like the pawnee for one, were the usual instigators of warfare between tribes. To lump all the tribes as 'barbaric and savage' because of the nature of a few would be like lumping all republicans as chickenhawks and warmongers, because of a few.

Exactly my point. The introduction/implimentation of certain things such as pastoralism, contributed to raiding and feuds over territory, but many also worked together and joined other clans out of nessesity too.

Chickenhawks. That reminds me of bugs.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Most of the tribes were peaceful. Of those tribes, the only times of warring against other tribes were over territory. The handful of tribes that weren't peaceful, like the pawnee for one, were the usual instigators of warfare between tribes. To lump all the tribes as 'barbaric and savage' because of the nature of a few would be like lumping all republicans as chickenhawks and warmongers, because of a few.

Or america as a country that doesn't deserve to exist.

 

[SmarterThanYou]

Or america as a country that doesn't deserve to exist.

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[rtwngAvngr]

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But the liberal ninnies we're talking about truly believe white people are on a whole new plane of evil than the innocent, utopia minded native americans. They use this false dichotomy to pummel present day white america. This is the point.

 

[dmp]

You guys know how the Native American nations got their areas within what later became our country? they'd attack and kill 'other' native americans...that's just how things were done then.

 

[no1tovote4]

You guys know how the Native American nations got their areas within what later became our country? they'd attack and kill 'other' native americans...that's just how things were done then.

What they did this without U.N. approval?!! What savages!

 

[Said1]

You guys know how the Native American nations got their areas within what later became our country? they'd attack and kill 'other' native americans...that's just how things were done then.

Some did, some didn't.

 

[SmarterThanYou]

But the liberal ninnies we're talking about truly believe white people are on a whole new plane of evil than the innocent, utopia minded native americans. They use this false dichotomy to pummel present day white america. This is the point.

but aren't they stupid?

 

[SmarterThanYou]

You guys know how the Native American nations got their areas within what later became our country? they'd attack and kill 'other' native americans...that's just how things were done then.

actually, it's theorized(maybe proven by now?) that native americans are actually of ancient asian descent that crossed over during the ice age. Yes, i'm sure that some battles occurred over territory in the beginning but mostly issues were settled by small skirmishes. Almost all tribes assimilated other tribes in to their own instead of anhilating the opposition tribe. A few did not.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

but aren't they stupid?

Yes.

 

[Comrade]

where did you get your misinformation on the tribes because its damn near completely false.

No, I'm not exactly making anything up. Why don't you read about the 'peacefull' utopia in American Indian history yourself and see.

http://college.hmco.com/history/readerscomp/rcah/html/ah_045203_iiiwarfare.htm

INDIANS : III. Warfare
In spite of many differences, the universality of the art of war is demonstrated by a study of the causes of conflict and the battle methods used by American Indian tribes. As in all armies, hierarchy of rank was important, and rank was determined by demonstrated bravery and proficiency. Most of the tribes had a war leader with lieutenants to aid him. Dress and insignia indicated rank and experience in battle. Accompanying the warriors on long marches or during sieges was a commissary force of hunters to supply food and other requirements. Rituals and dances fanned the martial spirit and celebrated victories. And like many soldiers the world over, warriors carried some sort of amulet into battle to guard them from harm.

Occasionally they raided neighboring tribes for stores of food or for women or slaves. Early in the eighteenth century, for example, Creek Indians, serving as mercenaries for British colonists, attacked and captured several villages of Yamasee and other tribes who were sent to slavery in the Carolinas.

Causes of war varied from tribe to tribe, but usually involved territorial rights, retaliation for aggressive acts, or rituals marking young males' coming to manhood through the performance of brave deeds. If the rituals resulted in the slaying of members of another tribe, a revenge attack was almost certain, and this could escalate into tribal warfare.

When Europeans brought the horse to North America early in the sixteenth century, that animal became the most prized object for raiders and made it possible for a young man to prove himself by capturing an enemy's horse rather than having to kill the man. The capture of horses often resulted in running fights, in which other deeds could be performed that added to a warrior's status. An individual's standing in a tribe was also measured by the number of captured horses in his possession.

Territorial disputes between tribes had little to do with land ownership; rather, they concerned the wild game and food plants on the land. For example, food shortages during the seventeenth century brought the Pequot into conflict with the Niantic, Narragansett, and other tribes of southern New England. Fearing the presence of the Pequot, the colonists in the area supported the opposition tribes, including a dissident branch of the Pequot—the Mohegan led by the legendary Uncas. So many Pequot were killed or scattered that the tribe virtually ceased to exist.