What's driving America over the cliff

[Chris]

In 1910, the average retirement age in the United States was 74. In 2002, however, the average retirement age was 62. Average life expectancy in 1910 was around 55, while in 2002 it was 77.

Throughout most of our nation's history, people were expected to work regardless of their age. Only over the last several decades has that changed.

Now it is assumed even if you are completely able-bodied and able-minded, you don't need to work and indeed you shouldn't be required to do so if you reach a certain age and certain number of years at one job. But that is crazy. We can't afford it. As people live longer, they should work longer, be productive longer, pay taxes longer, and be full participants in our nation's economy longer.

Commentary: What's driving the U.S. over a cliff? - CNN.com

 

[Truthmatters]

Agreed and I think you will see many do so.

 

[editec]

Yeah, I think that the aging population coupled with lower retirement age is definitely straining the economy.

Retired persons still depend on working people to provide the good and services they use.

Even if they have the money themselves, they're still dependent on the remaining workers for what they use.

As long as our productivity was increasing, and working people were getting their share of those productivity increases, it probably didn't matter all that much.

But depite enormous productivity increases in the last thirty years, workers haven't been keeping that same share of the money that they once got.

Throw in the enormous amounts of money leaves our shores, and throw in the corporations which moved their HQs offshore to gain tax advantages and we've got problems in the economy.

Well when I say we have problems, I really mean the working classes have problems.

The investment class (that about 1% or less of Americans) is doing better than ever.

 

[auditor0007]

In 1910, the average retirement age in the United States was 74. In 2002, however, the average retirement age was 62. Average life expectancy in 1910 was around 55, while in 2002 it was 77.

Throughout most of our nation's history, people were expected to work regardless of their age. Only over the last several decades has that changed.

Now it is assumed even if you are completely able-bodied and able-minded, you don't need to work and indeed you shouldn't be required to do so if you reach a certain age and certain number of years at one job. But that is crazy. We can't afford it. As people live longer, they should work longer, be productive longer, pay taxes longer, and be full participants in our nation's economy longer.

Commentary: What's driving the U.S. over a cliff? - CNN.com

This is why I have been saying, for such a long time, that the age to collect on SS and Medicare must be raised to 70 or 71. It really isn't rocket science. My father is turning 72 this year. He still works 40 hours most every week.

 

[Iriemon]

In 1910, the average retirement age in the United States was 74. In 2002, however, the average retirement age was 62. Average life expectancy in 1910 was around 55, while in 2002 it was 77.

Throughout most of our nation's history, people were expected to work regardless of their age. Only over the last several decades has that changed.

Now it is assumed even if you are completely able-bodied and able-minded, you don't need to work and indeed you shouldn't be required to do so if you reach a certain age and certain number of years at one job. But that is crazy. We can't afford it. As people live longer, they should work longer, be productive longer, pay taxes longer, and be full participants in our nation's economy longer.

Commentary: What's driving the U.S. over a cliff? - CNN.com

This is why I have been saying, for such a long time, that the age to collect on SS and Medicare must be raised to 70 or 71. It really isn't rocket science. My father is turning 72 this year. He still works 40 hours most every week.

Yes and it should be means tested too. We can't afford to be paying the Warren Buffets of the world social security benefits.

 

[Toro]

Here is how we reform Social Security

1. Make it into a real pension fund that invests in stocks, bonds, real estate, private equity, etc. Currently, the social security trust fund compounds at about 3% per year. Making it a modern pension fund like every state in America currently operates, as do countries such as Canada and Norway, would increase returns to about 7% per year. Compounded, this is enormous.

2. Increase the age of qualifying for social security to 70 or 72. Or give people less if they want to retire earlier. Or make them contribute more with the option to retire earlier.

3. Give people the opportunity to invest themselves but do not make it mandatory.

 

[Iriemon]

Here is how we reform Social Security

1. Make it into a real pension fund that invests in stocks, bonds, real estate, private equity, etc. Currently, the social security trust fund compounds at about 3% per year. Making it a modern pension fund like every state in America currently operates, as do countries such as Canada and Norway, would increase returns to about 7% per year. Compounded, this is enormous.

I agree, and even before that, stop the fucking government from stealing our pension money for its damned deficits!

2. Increase the age of qualifying for social security to 70 or 72. Or give people less if they want to retire earlier. Or make them contribute more with the option to retire earlier.

Probably necessary.

3. Give people the opportunity to invest themselves but do not make it mandatory.

They already have that. 401ks IRAs etc.

And why is the Govt be paying Warren Buffet SS benefits when the system is broke!

 

[Chris]

Americans are getting fatter all the time, so many may not live to see retirement.

Twinkies could save Social Security.

 

[dilloduck]

Americans are getting fatter all the time, so many may not live to see retirement.

Twinkies could save Social Security.

Well tax those fat fuckers quickly before they die on us !

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Here is how we reform Social Security

1. Make it into a real pension fund that invests in stocks, bonds, real estate, private equity, etc. Currently, the social security trust fund compounds at about 3% per year. Making it a modern pension fund like every state in America currently operates, as do countries such as Canada and Norway, would increase returns to about 7% per year. Compounded, this is enormous.

2. Increase the age of qualifying for social security to 70 or 72. Or give people less if they want to retire earlier. Or make them contribute more with the option to retire earlier.

3. Give people the opportunity to invest themselves but do not make it mandatory.

Actually it gets NO compound interest since the Government spends it and replaces it with Government backed bonds that will be worthless when they come due because we will be bankrupt.

 

[Immanuel]

I have to disagree with the entire premise of the article. What is driving America over the cliff is the career politicians of both parties who every year spend a hell of a lot more money than the budget allows. They just keep spending money to keep the lobbyists happy and keep themselves in office.

What is destroying America? Politicians... and the Americans who won't boot the career guys out of Washington.

Immie

 

[neurosport]

i agree healthy people should work until they die. even if they're 90 years old. anybody who would consider being healthy a punishment is an idiot.

problem is even healthy young people can get disability here if they see a shrink and he says they're nuts. and then they never have to work.

so how do you separate healthy people from sick ones ?

certainly many of the old people are unfit for work - but how do you decide who is who ?

maybe we should pass a law where if you're an employer and you have an easy job ( like answering phone calls ) that you have to hire old sick people FIRST before you hire any young healthy ones.

certainly i wouldn't want to force somebody who is 70 years old with arthritis, asthma and heart disease to be forced to work in construction ...

 

[Skull Pilot]

Here is how we reform Social Security

1. Make it into a real pension fund that invests in stocks, bonds, real estate, private equity, etc. Currently, the social security trust fund compounds at about 3% per year. Making it a modern pension fund like every state in America currently operates, as do countries such as Canada and Norway, would increase returns to about 7% per year. Compounded, this is enormous.

I'm more of the mind to say dump SS altogether and make it mandatory that everyone save most of that 15% of their income in a privately held investment portfolio that the government cannot touch or use to cook its books. the remainder to br used to buy a disability insurance policy again privately owned.

2. Increase the age of qualifying for social security to 70 or 72. Or give people less if they want to retire earlier. Or make them contribute more with the option to retire earlier.

If people were saving as outlined above plus contributing to a 401 etc, they could retire whenever they wanted as long as they were confident that their money would last.

3. Give people the opportunity to invest themselves but do not make it mandatory.

people already have this opportunity. If it was made clear that you and you alone are responsible for your retirement savings i think you will see that most people will save more.

 

[KittenKoder]

Easiest way to fix Social Security, force the government to pay it all back then make it illegal for them to touch it for any reason. Originally it was an interest only savings, it was never meant to pay off other debts.

 

[Old Rocks]

Here is how we reform Social Security

1. Make it into a real pension fund that invests in stocks, bonds, real estate, private equity, etc. Currently, the social security trust fund compounds at about 3% per year. Making it a modern pension fund like every state in America currently operates, as do countries such as Canada and Norway, would increase returns to about 7% per year. Compounded, this is enormous.

2. Increase the age of qualifying for social security to 70 or 72. Or give people less if they want to retire earlier. Or make them contribute more with the option to retire earlier.

3. Give people the opportunity to invest themselves but do not make it mandatory.

Actually it gets NO compound interest since the Government spends it and replaces it with Government backed bonds that will be worthless when they come due because we will be bankrupt.

Thank you, George W. Bush, thank you.

 

[Old Rocks]

I see SS as the most successful program that the government has ever put into action. As for making the retirement age 70, that may work for you that ride a desk. Most people in my line of work are wore out by that age.

Just make the 6.2% a tax on all income, right up to the top. SS is funded completely.

 

[editec]

I see SS as the most successful program that the government has ever put into action. As for making the retirement age 70, that may work for you that ride a desk. Most people in my line of work are wore out by that age.

Just make the 6.2% a tax on all income, right up to the top. SS is funded completely.

Yup.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Here is how we reform Social Security

1. Make it into a real pension fund that invests in stocks, bonds, real estate, private equity, etc. Currently, the social security trust fund compounds at about 3% per year. Making it a modern pension fund like every state in America currently operates, as do countries such as Canada and Norway, would increase returns to about 7% per year. Compounded, this is enormous.

2. Increase the age of qualifying for social security to 70 or 72. Or give people less if they want to retire earlier. Or make them contribute more with the option to retire earlier.

3. Give people the opportunity to invest themselves but do not make it mandatory.

Actually it gets NO compound interest since the Government spends it and replaces it with Government backed bonds that will be worthless when they come due because we will be bankrupt.

Thank you, George W. Bush, thank you.

Add Barack H Obama to your thank you card list too.

 

[InrXeyelArkvst]

$11,218,863,034,278.70

The last three swipes (53rd thru the 55th of the FY) added $49,137,386,554.20 to the tab as of Tax Day.

$885,136,965,721.30 to go til cap bust II*
-$1,487,000,000,000.00 bailout/stimulus as amended
-$601,863,034,278.70 net to go til cap bust II*

Act of February 17, 2009, permanently increased the statutory debt
limit to $12,104 billion. (i.e. $12.104 Trillion!)

Unamortized Discount represents the
discount adjustment on Treasury bills and zero-coupon bonds
(amortization is calculated daily).

1/The current balance includes $199,929 million outstanding for securities is
sued to raise cash for the temporary Supplementary Financing Program ( http://www.treas.gov/press/releases/hp1144.htmhttp://www.treas.gov/press/releases/hp1144.htmhttp://www.treas.gov/press/releases/hp1144.htmhttp://www.treas.gov/press/releases/hp1144.htm ).

*(Even though it's the 44th's watch now, it will still be the IXth limit raising of the 21st Century when it comes.)

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[BaronVonBigmeat]

I see SS as the most successful program that the government has ever put into action.

It's successful in the same way that Bernie Madoff was for a long time.

Here is how we reform Social Security

1. Make it into a real pension fund that invests in stocks, bonds, real estate, private equity, etc. Currently, the social security trust fund compounds at about 3% per year. Making it a modern pension fund like every state in America currently operates, as do countries such as Canada and Norway, would increase returns to about 7% per year. Compounded, this is enormous.

2. Increase the age of qualifying for social security to 70 or 72. Or give people less if they want to retire earlier. Or make them contribute more with the option to retire earlier.

3. Give people the opportunity to invest themselves but do not make it mandatory.

How does SS compound? I thought congress just spends the money, and promises to pay in the future, with checks adjusted upwards by whatever the official rate of inflation is.

Anyway, I don't like the idea of Uncle Sam playing the stock market. I don't see why anyone on the left or right would support it, the possibilities for abuse are too great. A left-wing government might start making demands on the companies it has shares in--cut CO2 output, pander to unions, sell your products below market price, and politically correct but unviable business plans in general. A right-wing government might pander to management, or treat companies it has stakes in with kids gloves, looking the other way as they commit fraud, and so forth. Both sides would probably pressure the fed for inflation in order to goose the stock market, since politicians tend to be very short sighted and don't want to face the wrath of voters whose pensions have lost money.

I'd rather just keep the current system and raise the age to 70~75. It's set at 65 because that used the average life expectancy, actually we'd have to set it at 80 to match that. Or, failing that, require people to put their money in a plain vanilla FDIC insured savings account. If SS had been created that way, at least it would not be a giant ponzi scheme, reliant on an ever-increasing population. Of course, that would have meant that the first payouts would not be seen until about 1980, which is far too long of a time frame for politicians.

Ideally though, I'd like to abolish it entirely and let people decide what they want to do with their own money.