What's Christian About Denying Service To Any Individual?

[Luddly Neddite]

The radical so-called fundamentalists Christians up in Arizona tried to get a law passed that would deny service to people gay or perceived as gay in public and private places of business.

I'd like to know...what's Christlike about that?

What basis, does one build this argument in the first place?

What the radical RW have done in Arizona is prove exactly how UNCHRISTLIKE they really are by trying to pass this law.

Anyone care to show me how that radical bill they were pushing is Christian?

I'd like to know.

MARC, do you not understand that there is no clear definition of what is Christian?

Seeking higher moral ground arguments in political debates is like dancing for architecture.

But, don't all Christians have in common the belief in the teachings of the Bible?

Who would Jesus discriminate against?

 

[MarcATL]

But there is nothing in the Bible, either in the Old or New Testament, that prohibits Christians from associating with people they find undesirable. In fact, Jesus went out and preached to whores. In fact, he touched one and told her to go sin no more. But he didn't refuse to sell her a wedding cake.

In Judaism, it is forbidden for us to eat pork. But actually, it is not forbidden for us to sell pork to someone else. It is also not forbidden for us to sell kosher food to a Muslim, should he want to buy it.

By refusing to sell to someone who is not of your ideology, you are not defending your beliefs at all. You are just making them look ridiculous. I bet that Jesus is doing a facepalm right now.

Thank you!

You are thanking the guy for lying to you? Have you ever read the Bible? Are you aware that there is a specific instruction in the New Testament not to associate with some people?

I actually read my Bible every morning. I just finished reading the book of Job and have moved on to the last book of poetry this morning. I also read a chunk of excerpts from Acts...this morning.

Can you point out those 5 Scriptures you're referring to please?

Thanks.

The radical so-called fundamentalists Christians up in Arizona tried to get a law passed that would deny service to people gay or perceived as gay in public and private places of business.

I'd like to know...what's Christlike about that?

What basis, does one build this argument in the first place?

What the radical RW have done in Arizona is prove exactly how UNCHRISTLIKE they really are by trying to pass this law.

Anyone care to show me how that radical bill they were pushing is Christian?

I'd like to know.

What's 'un-Christ like' about it?

If you know anything about Christ's teachings, and I suspect you have but a cursory understanding, if any, you will understand that he taught to love and treat others as yourselves. He taught to turn the other cheek, he taught to minister with love, to heal, to lift up, not to bring down. I note the parable of the Good Samaritan at this time.

I also note that the ONLY time Jesus was recorded getting angry was to a certain sect of people...and these aren't the people you are angry at, in fact, I suspect that the type of people Jesus got angry at are the types of people you revere today.

So yes, nothing, whatsoever is Christlike about that bigoted Bill.

 

[Chuckt]

The radical so-called fundamentalists Christians up in Arizona tried to get a law passed that would deny service to people gay or perceived as gay in public and private places of business.

I'd like to know...what's Christlike about that?

When I worked for my first job, we could deny service to any individual. It was always a right in our state.

If you are running a business like a restaurant or movie theater, would you want to have a customer bring in a baby and scream if the dinner plate was $100 a plate and you had paying customers? Or would you want to operate a movie theater if a customer brought in a baby that would cry during a movie and you had customers not be able to hear the movie? Would you kick that customer out or refund 1,000 other customers?

How long would you stay in business?

 

[Luddly Neddite]

BTW, the way the AZ bill was written, it would have made it legal for Muslims to deny service to christians.

Does that little fact matter to any of the christians here?

 

[MarcATL]

I keep thinking that Christians are not like the christians I see here on this board or the christians I see ranting about stories like this. There is nothing Christian-like about the hate that is preached here or in this idiotic hate bill.

What do others think? Is this common in churches/religions across the country/world? Is hate the family value that christians now embrace?

The Bill was the brainchild of a radical sect of Christians, stemming from a distorted set of Christianity based on bigotry.

Not everyone who calls themselves Christians really are, Christ Himself said "Not everyone who cries Lord, Lord..."

Like the Pharisees of Christ's time, they BELIEVE they are doing right, but are doing wrong.

Nothing different.

 

[Newby]

The radical so-called fundamentalists Christians up in Arizona tried to get a law passed that would deny service to people gay or perceived as gay in public and private places of business.

I'd like to know...what's Christlike about that?

What basis, does one build this argument in the first place?

What the radical RW have done in Arizona is prove exactly how UNCHRISTLIKE they really are by trying to pass this law.

Anyone care to show me how that radical bill they were pushing is Christian?

I'd like to know.

One is taught not to enable or support sin. Providing services to a gay wedding is supporting and enabling sin. Marriage means that the State recognizes the two as sexual partners and while being gay is not in and of itself a sin, practicing gay life style and having sex IS.

And every time a Christian sells a wedding cake to a hetero couple where one of the two partners was already unfaithful before the marriage, then they are also supporting that sin as well, right?

And every time a Christian sells a wedding cake to a smoker or a drinker, they are supporting that sin as well, right?

And every time a Christian sells a wedding cake to a Jew or a Buddhist or a Hindu for a wedding, they are supporting sin, right?

And every time a Christian sells a wedding cake to an obese person, they are supporting a sin, right? For obesity is one of the seven deadly sins in the bible..

You see, using your logic, there is practically no one to whom a Christian should be selling wedding cakes.

That line of logic is just batshit crazy.

None of the examples you provided is promoting sin. The marriages themselves are not sin. Everyone is a sinner, using your logic Christians would not be able to do business with anyone then.

 

[MarcATL]

BTW, the way the AZ bill was written, it would have made it legal for Muslims to deny service to christians.

Does that little fact matter to any of the christians here?

The DEFINITION of Sharia Law.

Remember how these radicals were howling and wailing about "Obamerrr's gonna bring Shereeya Law!!!"

They always DO what they say OTHERS are doing. Always, always, always!

Disgusting!

*SMH*

 

[Newby]

But there is nothing in the Bible, either in the Old or New Testament, that prohibits Christians from associating with people they find undesirable. In fact, Jesus went out and preached to whores. In fact, he touched one and told her to go sin no more. But he didn't refuse to sell her a wedding cake.

In Judaism, it is forbidden for us to eat pork. But actually, it is not forbidden for us to sell pork to someone else. It is also not forbidden for us to sell kosher food to a Muslim, should he want to buy it.

By refusing to sell to someone who is not of your ideology, you are not defending your beliefs at all. You are just making them look ridiculous. I bet that Jesus is doing a facepalm right now.

Thank you! You made the Christian argument so well! Christ was not shy about pointing out sin and telling the person or persons where their error was and that it should be corrected. "Go and sin no more!" Have you read the New Testament? Christ was not quiet about warning others of their behavior and actions and where it would lead them if they didn't change, pick up their cross, and follow Him. Following Him is not promoting sin, it's the opposite of that, so if as a Christian you think the gay lifestyle is a sinful ilfe style, then you are not to support it, you are to teach against it, just as He did. So to be Christ like would be to tell those gay patrons to ask for forgiveness, turn their lives around and follow Christ, not bake them a cake in celebration of their sin. Why is this concept so hard to understand? Why do all non-Christians seem to think that Christ would want Christians advocating or promoting what He would see as sin?

I agree with you 50%. By telling people, if you think they are sinning, that they need to repent, is one thing. But to refuse to sell to them because you consider them a sinner, that is something entirely different.

And it is eerily reminiscent of the horror dreams of the Book of Revelations, where it is prophesied that one without the mark of the Beast cannot buy or sell....

How ironic that some Christians have taken this horror prophesy to use as their own model. How ironic that they would use the machinations of the devil for their own purposes.

And yes, I have read the NT, probably many times more than most people.

Again, I state, with this kind of logic, if Christians are now predicating whether to sell a product to someone based on their estimation of the amount of sin in a person's life, then I would suspect that many Christian businesses are going to close for lack of sufficient business.

This is what happens when people mix religion and business.

It is just batshit crazy.

G-d bless you.

What's batshit crazy, are your illogical conclusions...

Don't you understand what you posted? What does having the 'mark of the beast so you can buy or sell' have to do with the topic at all? What that means is that at some point you will have to carry a 'mark', whatever form that may take in order to partake in the consumer market, and by taking that mark you're disavowing God. So the choice for Christians would be to take the 'mark' and disavow God, or not take the mark and not be able to participate in the consumer market.

 

[Newby]

Here is a concept that I suspect will be entirely beyond your ability to grasp. There is nothing in the Bible that allows you to tell Christians what they are allowed to believe. The reason I know that for a fact is that, unlike you, I have actually read the entire bible,. not just the parts that allow you to claim that the neither the Old nor the New Testament contain any instructions telling believers not to associate with people. I can name 5 off the top of my head that prove you are wrong.

They show their ignorance every time they start one of these ridiculous threads.

And yet, neither of you has provided even one single verse to back up your claims.

What you are promoting here is just patently un-christian. It goes against the very fabric of what Jeshuah taught. If he is really your Messiah, you sure don't show it very much.

Or do you think that Christians have never sold stuff to sinners in the past? Really? Can you possibly be that naive? Really?

BTW, you might want to look up the real meaning of ignorance. It is not necessarily an insult, but you are using it wrongly.

I don't know what Bible you've read, but it's clearly not the same one I've read. Read Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Jesus did not take sin lightly, so I don't know where people such as yourself come up with this distorted image of what He stood for.

 

[Newby]

Thank you!

You are thanking the guy for lying to you? Have you ever read the Bible? Are you aware that there is a specific instruction in the New Testament not to associate with some people?

I actually read my Bible every morning. I just finished reading the book of Job and have moved on to the last book of poetry this morning. I also read a chunk of excerpts from Acts...this morning.

Can you point out those 5 Scriptures you're referring to please?

Thanks.

The radical so-called fundamentalists Christians up in Arizona tried to get a law passed that would deny service to people gay or perceived as gay in public and private places of business.

I'd like to know...what's Christlike about that?

What basis, does one build this argument in the first place?

What the radical RW have done in Arizona is prove exactly how UNCHRISTLIKE they really are by trying to pass this law.

Anyone care to show me how that radical bill they were pushing is Christian?

I'd like to know.

What's 'un-Christ like' about it?

If you know anything about Christ's teachings, and I suspect you have but a cursory understanding, if any, you will understand that he taught to love and treat others as yourselves. He taught to turn the other cheek, he taught to minister with love, to heal, to lift up, not to bring down. I note the parable of the Good Samaritan at this time.

I also note that the ONLY time Jesus was recorded getting angry was to a certain sect of people...and these aren't the people you are angry at, in fact, I suspect that the type of people Jesus got angry at are the types of people you revere today.

So yes, nothing, whatsoever is Christlike about that bigoted Bill.

And you claim to have read the Bible? Why don't you quote scripture where Jesus spoke about sin and that it should be promoted? Read the sermon on the mount.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

BTW, the way the AZ bill was written, it would have made it legal for Muslims to deny service to christians.

Does that little fact matter to any of the christians here?

The DEFINITION of Sharia Law.

Remember how these radicals were howling and wailing about "Obamerrr's gonna bring Shereeya Law!!!"

They always DO what they say OTHERS are doing. Always, always, always!

Disgusting!

*SMH*

They champion religious freedom until its someone elses rebellion. They are against sharia law right up until they're in favor of it.

 

[MarcATL]

That is the point.

Unless, of course, you think no Muslim would ever refuse to bake a wedding cake for a gay couple.

Sir, do you believe that the government should be able to force discrimination against certain individuals?

Ma'am, do you always argue with imaginary people?

Why are you calling me "ma'am?"

 

[MarcATL]

There is nothing un-Christian-like in defending ones religion or morals.

Assumption by the OP is that it is not Christian to defend and advocate for ones beliefs.

But there is nothing in the Bible, either in the Old or New Testament, that prohibits Christians from associating with people they find undesirable. In fact, Jesus went out and preached to whores. In fact, he touched one and told her to go sin no more. But he didn't refuse to sell her a wedding cake.

In Judaism, it is forbidden for us to eat pork. But actually, it is not forbidden for us to sell pork to someone else. It is also not forbidden for us to sell kosher food to a Muslim, should he want to buy it.

By refusing to sell to someone who is not of your ideology, you are not defending your beliefs at all. You are just making them look ridiculous. I bet that Jesus is doing a facepalm right now.

Thank you! You made the Christian argument so well! Christ was not shy about pointing out sin and telling the person or persons where their error was and that it should be corrected. "Go and sin no more!" Have you read the New Testament? Christ was not quiet about warning others of their behavior and actions and where it would lead them if they didn't change, pick up their cross, and follow Him. Following Him is not promoting sin, it's the opposite of that, so if as a Christian you think the gay lifestyle is a sinful ilfe style, then you are not to support it, you are to teach against it, just as He did. So to be Christ like would be to tell those gay patrons to ask for forgiveness, turn their lives around and follow Christ, not bake them a cake in celebration of their sin. Why is this concept so hard to understand? Why do all non-Christians seem to think that Christ would want Christians advocating or promoting what He would see as sin?

Where you, and others of your clearly radical ilk, are sadly mistaken is mixing government with religion.

Your personal views and beliefs should have absolutely NOTHING to do with the government's policies.

You keep mentioning how Christ spoke out against sin and "pointed out sin" you've posted to "read Matthew, Mark, Luke & John" yet not ONE specific example of these things.

Very suspicious.

I ask you, sir, to pin-point some examples of Christ "pointing out sin" please.

I also thank you in advance.

 

[Newby]

But there is nothing in the Bible, either in the Old or New Testament, that prohibits Christians from associating with people they find undesirable. In fact, Jesus went out and preached to whores. In fact, he touched one and told her to go sin no more. But he didn't refuse to sell her a wedding cake.

In Judaism, it is forbidden for us to eat pork. But actually, it is not forbidden for us to sell pork to someone else. It is also not forbidden for us to sell kosher food to a Muslim, should he want to buy it.

By refusing to sell to someone who is not of your ideology, you are not defending your beliefs at all. You are just making them look ridiculous. I bet that Jesus is doing a facepalm right now.

Thank you! You made the Christian argument so well! Christ was not shy about pointing out sin and telling the person or persons where their error was and that it should be corrected. "Go and sin no more!" Have you read the New Testament? Christ was not quiet about warning others of their behavior and actions and where it would lead them if they didn't change, pick up their cross, and follow Him. Following Him is not promoting sin, it's the opposite of that, so if as a Christian you think the gay lifestyle is a sinful ilfe style, then you are not to support it, you are to teach against it, just as He did. So to be Christ like would be to tell those gay patrons to ask for forgiveness, turn their lives around and follow Christ, not bake them a cake in celebration of their sin. Why is this concept so hard to understand? Why do all non-Christians seem to think that Christ would want Christians advocating or promoting what He would see as sin?

Where you, and others of your clearly radical ilk, are sadly mistaken is mixing government with religion.

Your personal views and beliefs should have absolutely NOTHING to do with the government's policies.

You keep mentioning how Christ spoke out against sin and "pointed out sin" you've posted to "read Matthew, Mark, Luke & John" yet not ONE specific example of these things.

Very suspicious.

I ask you, sir, to pin-point some examples of Christ "pointing out sin" please.

I also thank you in advance.

My radical ilk?? You're the one who asked the question about why a Christian would act 'un-Christian' (your words) by denying service. The government was not part of the op.

Seriously? You claimed to have read the Bible and you don't know where Jesus pointed out sin??? Okay, apparently you did some very selective reading or you're in denial, or you've never actually read it.

 

[Darkwind]

There is nothing un-Christian-like in defending ones religion or morals.

Assumption by the OP is that it is not Christian to defend and advocate for ones beliefs.

You also failed to address the OP’s question.

I don't respond to phoney premises.

 

[Darkwind]

There is nothing un-Christian-like in defending ones religion or morals.

Assumption by the OP is that it is not Christian to defend and advocate for ones beliefs.

What belief that you have, sir, that allows you to DENY an individual service?

Spell it out if you will.

I'd like to know.

What service are these nebulous people being denied?

 

[MarcATL]

Here is a concept that I suspect will be entirely beyond your ability to grasp. There is nothing in the Bible that allows you to tell Christians what they are allowed to believe. The reason I know that for a fact is that, unlike you, I have actually read the entire bible,. not just the parts that allow you to claim that the neither the Old nor the New Testament contain any instructions telling believers not to associate with people. I can name 5 off the top of my head that prove you are wrong.

They show their ignorance every time they start one of these ridiculous threads.

And yet, neither of you has provided even one single verse to back up your claims.

What you are promoting here is just patently un-christian. It goes against the very fabric of what Jeshuah taught. If he is really your Messiah, you sure don't show it very much.

Or do you think that Christians have never sold stuff to sinners in the past? Really? Can you possibly be that naive? Really?

BTW, you might want to look up the real meaning of ignorance. It is not necessarily an insult, but you are using it wrongly.

Thank you!!!

 

[Chuckt]

BTW, the way the AZ bill was written, it would have made it legal for Muslims to deny service to christians.

Does that little fact matter to any of the christians here?

When is the last time you or I ever ate Halal food? Exactly.

 

[MarcATL]

The radical so-called fundamentalists Christians up in Arizona tried to get a law passed that would deny service to people gay or perceived as gay in public and private places of business.

I'd like to know...what's Christlike about that?

What basis, does one build this argument in the first place?

What the radical RW have done in Arizona is prove exactly how UNCHRISTLIKE they really are by trying to pass this law.

Anyone care to show me how that radical bill they were pushing is Christian?

I'd like to know.

MARC, do you not understand that there is no clear definition of what is Christian?

Seeking higher moral ground arguments in political debates is like dancing for architecture.

Actually, my brother, there is a clear definition of what a Christian is biblically.

Christ Himself said that the two greatest commandments, which the 10 Commandments hang (aka based on) are Love the Lord God w/all your heart and love thy neighbor as thyself.

See Matthew 22:37-40 KJV

Paul further illustrates what exactly is a Christian in the fruit of the Spirit illustration found in Galatians 5:22-23

 

[Luddly Neddite]

BTW, the way the AZ bill was written, it would have made it legal for Muslims to deny service to christians.

Does that little fact matter to any of the christians here?

When is the last time you or I ever ate Halal food? Exactly.

Daily.

(But I don't eat meat.)

I stopped reading your posts some time ago because you often don't make a lot of sense. I'm not sure what your point is but mine is quite direct - the bill would have made it legal for Muslims to deny service to christians.

More to the point, we do still have the First Amendment. That trumps everything else, including homophobia.