Whatever Happened to Electric Cars?

[Dana7360]

From the Blaze tonight:

Bammy promised in his 2011 State of the Union Address, that by 2015, electric cars would swarm this country's landscape thicker than illegal aliens. Yet 99.7% of the hundreds of thousands of electric cars he promised, are nowhere to be found. Yet one more idiotic pipedream by Bammy's warmies. Oh, and you the taxpayer forked over a $7,500 subsidy for every one that was sold. Just makes you feel green and cozy all over, don't it?

You must not live in an area that has people who want an electric car.

I do. They're all over the place and very common here. In fact, my husband drives a Volt.

I drive a hybrid but when I replace it I will buy an electric car. I don't like the body of the Leaf so I will probably get a Tesla.

You should go to Maui. They have even more electric cars on the road there than we do here. It seemed like it happened over night, I was there in January 2014 and saw some electric cars. I was back in July 2014 and they were everywhere.

Yes we got a tax credit of 7500 dollars in 2013 because my husband bought an electric car. We will get another credit when I replace my Prius with an electric car.

I guess you only approve of tax credits for rich business but not for Americans who do all they can to not pollute our environment or give our money to rich middle eastern nations.

 

[Dana7360]

The car industry bought all the patents they could to shut down competition to oil and hybrid vehicles, and Tesla focuses on the luxury market.

Actually no.

Nissan has been building their Leaf for several years now.

My husband bought a Chevy Volt in 2013.

I will probably get the Tesla when I replace my Prius.

Chevy just released their BOLT which is 100% electric but it's a concept car right now. I hope that they go into full production of that car because if they do, I will buy one instead of the Tesla.

 

[Dana7360]

The Chevy Blaze was going to be GM's salvationmobile. It was going to make the warmies swoon and GM would never again have to hold out its tin cup to the US taxpayer. How'd that work out?

In the dustbin, like a lot of electric vehicles. It wasn't down to the oil price, but the cost of the car itself. As a consumer would you rather have a car for 16k-20k or have to pay 40k for a hybrid equivalent. How about a fully electric vehicle at even higher prices?

Apart from a feel good 'saved the environment' myth, electric cars have no real benefit. In fact when you think about it, they are using electricity off the power grid, and most of that electricity comes from non-renewable sources.

Electric cars don't 'save' anything - they just put the pollution at the power station rather than on the roads.

You can say that about some places but not here.

My state gets most of our electricity from water.

We do have one coal fired plant that serves a rural area in the central western part of the state but it's being shut down now. The shutdown started in 2005.

We also have solar panels on a lot of buildings. They're also on road signs and the posts that guide the ferries into dock. They're also on the posts that guide the big freighters into dock at the ports in our cities that have ports.

We also get our electricity from wind. We have one of the largest wind farms in the nation.

When my husband plugs his electric car in at home none of the electricity that's comes out of that socket is generated by fossil fuels.

 

[Dana7360]

Good for Nevada.

If you buy certain models, or you buy the extra package on a basic S Model, you get lifetime free charging at all Supercharging Stations, and they charge the car up in a matter of minutes.

Now, I said that a full charge is about $3.00. That is not true in California, where it might be almost 5 times that. Still, over 200 miles on less than $15.00 in a sports car isn't bad. But you get free charges at Tesla Supercharging Stations and many California shopping centers (along with a free good parking spot). You could conceivably have free fuel for life.

And you can have an extra battery pack handy and charge it with your solar panels during the day while you're off draining the other battery pack. Swap them out as needed. Make your own power.

Don't quote me on any of that. I might have made it all up, very possibly. But then again, maybe not.

Ummm, you'll never even get close to 200 miles if you drive in a "sporty" ,fashion. Figure half or even less depending on how quick you decide to be. If you try to recharge a EV using only solar expect a very, very long wait. Like on the order of a couple of months. And having a spare 800 pound battery pack is what everybody wants laying around their garage. You really havn't thought that through very well....

I doubt anyone wants to do the battery swap on a Tesla at home. And the Model S battery pack probably weighs close to 1,200 lbs.

But the Tesla charging stations (some of them) have the capability of doing an automated battery swap that is faster than filled a car up with gas.

I'm assuming that the battery packs will become lighter as is the normal way of things. I don't envision they can get much lighter than 800 pounds though, thus my choice in weight. Yes, they can swap a pack very quickly (and kudo's to Tesla for that innovation) but that still doesn't address the very real range considerations and the toxicity of the batteries once they are no longer usable.

These are all things that will no doubt be addressed, but the time of the EV is still quite a way off.

A range of 265 miles makes the range a nonissue except for long trips. Even then, with the charging stations popping up all over, and the ability to get half of a full charge in 20-30 mins, even long trips are possible. You have to stop for 30 mins every couple of hours. But the charges are free.

This guy wrote a piece about his 10,000 miles driving a Tesla;
4 Things I Learned Driving a Tesla for 10 000 Miles TSLA

Aside from building cars, the gigaplant is going to manufacture batteries for renewable energy storage. They have a partnership with Solar City.

There's a lot going on with battery tech right now. The Hawaiian islands are a testing ground, as each island is essentially a micro grid. It's expensive to ship in oil and gas, so they're turning to renewables and battery storage.

And Tesla stock is up 3% today, so far.

Yes Maui is my second home.

I have never seen so many electric cars on the road as I saw this last summer. I'm expecting to see even more of them on my next trip.

They also have solar panels on just about every building on the island. They're also on the road signs.

It's just like my state, any public area a solar panel can be installed, one is installed.

 

[Tom Sweetnam]

From the Blaze tonight:

Bammy promised in his 2011 State of the Union Address, that by 2015, electric cars would swarm this country's landscape thicker than illegal aliens. Yet 99.7% of the hundreds of thousands of electric cars he promised, are nowhere to be found. Yet one more idiotic pipedream by Bammy's warmies. Oh, and you the taxpayer forked over a $7,500 subsidy for every one that was sold. Just makes you feel green and cozy all over, don't it?

You must not live in an area that has people who want an electric car.

I do. They're all over the place and very common here. In fact, my husband drives a Volt.

I drive a hybrid but when I replace it I will buy an electric car. I don't like the body of the Leaf so I will probably get a Tesla.

You should go to Maui. They have even more electric cars on the road there than we do here. It seemed like it happened over night, I was there in January 2014 and saw some electric cars. I was back in July 2014 and they were everywhere.

Yes we got a tax credit of 7500 dollars in 2013 because my husband bought an electric car. We will get another credit when I replace my Prius with an electric car.

I guess you only approve of tax credits for rich business but not for Americans who do all they can to not pollute our environment or give our money to rich middle eastern nations.

Don't be a self-righteous prig. I own a ranch in Southern Colorado at 8100' above sea level, in the foothills of the San Juan Mountains, that's so remote the nearest big box shopping mall is 150 miles distant, and the closest Interstate Highway is 102 miles distant. If you don't have a full-size, V-8, 4X4 vehicle here, where winters last at least 6 months and are severe, you're risking your life quite literally. Think outside the box. We don't all live in Hawaii. "Trendy" in my part of the world is 5" of lift and a set of chains that won't fall apart after a year. Electric cars? It'll be another half century at least before they supplant internal combustion engines as a major means of transport.

 

[westwall]

From the Blaze tonight:

Bammy promised in his 2011 State of the Union Address, that by 2015, electric cars would swarm this country's landscape thicker than illegal aliens. Yet 99.7% of the hundreds of thousands of electric cars he promised, are nowhere to be found. Yet one more idiotic pipedream by Bammy's warmies. Oh, and you the taxpayer forked over a $7,500 subsidy for every one that was sold. Just makes you feel green and cozy all over, don't it?

You must not live in an area that has people who want an electric car.

I do. They're all over the place and very common here. In fact, my husband drives a Volt.

I drive a hybrid but when I replace it I will buy an electric car. I don't like the body of the Leaf so I will probably get a Tesla.

You should go to Maui. They have even more electric cars on the road there than we do here. It seemed like it happened over night, I was there in January 2014 and saw some electric cars. I was back in July 2014 and they were everywhere.

Yes we got a tax credit of 7500 dollars in 2013 because my husband bought an electric car. We will get another credit when I replace my Prius with an electric car.

I guess you only approve of tax credits for rich business but not for Americans who do all they can to not pollute our environment or give our money to rich middle eastern nations.

Really? Where on the planet are EV's "common"?

 

[Dana7360]

once they become economically viable they will be everywhere and the guy who finds a way to make them viable will become the next Bill Gates.

Considering the advances his company has made, his name is Elon Musk.

Prior to Tesla, EVs were experimental cars that resembled toys or golf carts. The business was incorporated in 2003. They released their first production car in 2008. So in 5 years they went from concept to production of a completely new type of car. In the next 7 years they went from a production car with little practical value to a serious performance/luxury car that is very practical.

I am amazed at the number of people who seem to want to dismiss a car that won '2013 Automobile of the Year' from Automobile magazine, Motor Trend 'Car of the Year', and Consumer Reports said was the best car they ever tested. Not to mention that they were awarded the highest crash test rating ever.

Perhaps if state legislatures weren't wasting time and handicapping the sales, there would be more of them on the road.

At 60,000 for a base Model S, that is unlikely. Tesla has also benefited greatly from using OTHER PEOPLES MONEY. Namely the US taxpayer. The US taxpayer has been footing the bill for old Elon for a very long time. I would like to see Tesla prosper on its own. I would like to see Tesla live or die on the funding it receives from venture capitalists and investors.

That won't ever happen however.

Tesla started with a $465 million loan from the Dept of Energy. They paid that back 9 years early.

I see them doing fine once they get their production up. Right now they sell to high end buyers. But then, so did the initial car manufacturers. And not just car manufacturers. My brother bought the first VCR I ever saw. It was a huge clunky thing that set him back $2,500.

And every plant they have built has been funded by massive tax breaks. Every single one. The most recent one here in Storey County is benefiting from a 5 billion dollar tax break.

Considering the expenses involved in building a nuclear plant, they will always need gov't tax breaks. Otherwise they would not exist.

No insurance company has ever or will ever cover a nuclear plant so the federal government does.

So it's us taxpayers who insure all nuclear plants in America.

 

[westwall]

From the Blaze tonight:

Bammy promised in his 2011 State of the Union Address, that by 2015, electric cars would swarm this country's landscape thicker than illegal aliens. Yet 99.7% of the hundreds of thousands of electric cars he promised, are nowhere to be found. Yet one more idiotic pipedream by Bammy's warmies. Oh, and you the taxpayer forked over a $7,500 subsidy for every one that was sold. Just makes you feel green and cozy all over, don't it?

You must not live in an area that has people who want an electric car.

I do. They're all over the place and very common here. In fact, my husband drives a Volt.

I drive a hybrid but when I replace it I will buy an electric car. I don't like the body of the Leaf so I will probably get a Tesla.

You should go to Maui. They have even more electric cars on the road there than we do here. It seemed like it happened over night, I was there in January 2014 and saw some electric cars. I was back in July 2014 and they were everywhere.

Yes we got a tax credit of 7500 dollars in 2013 because my husband bought an electric car. We will get another credit when I replace my Prius with an electric car.

I guess you only approve of tax credits for rich business but not for Americans who do all they can to not pollute our environment or give our money to rich middle eastern nations.

Yes, Maui would be an excellent place for an EV. The main highway that circles the island is a mere 60 miles. Plus the tourist population is responsible for a 5th of the drivers on the island. I would expect that the rental agencies would be the prime users of them. That being said there are 1136 EVS as of 2013, after a massive government subsidy.

Out of a total population of cars of between 50,000, and 70,000. Soooooo, less than .02% of the total number of vehicles on the island.

 

[Dana7360]

Maybe it would help if you provided a quote from Obama vs something you made up

There are about 1% electric cars now where before it was zero.

If you're talking about electric cars as a percentile of all automobiles/light trucks registered in the US (not counting hybrids), the number of electric cars registered last year was 130,000 compared to 247 million non-electric/non-hybrid light vehicles. 1% would put the electric car count at 2,247,000, not 130,000. This is why your posts have zero credibility, dean. You're not even a mediochre propagandist, you're just a bad liar and a lazy one at that. Typical useful idiot in other words.

Electric car use by country - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Average age of U.S. car light truck on road hits record 11.4 years Polk says

Another interesting point in the Polk link above: The average age of petroleum-based vehicles in the US hit a historical high last year: 11.4 years. Because of Obama's marvelous economy, most people can't afford new cars/trucks, so they keep their old ones much longer, and they put the maintenance money into them that keeps them on our roads for 200,000+ miles instead of 100,000 miles.

I bought a new truck at Christmas. The sales manager at the dealership told me "Today, the used car market is pretty much the new car market. Nobody can afford the new ones anymore."

Add the fact that electric cars, from the CO/CO2 belching, coal burning electric generation plants with which they're umbilically attached, actually produce 2.8 times the greenhouse gas emissions of any petroleum powered light car/truck, and warmies really look more and more ludicrous every day, don' you agree? Or in dean's case, more and more ridiculous every day.

Hey Sweetie Pie, resorting to lies again, I see.

Are Electric Cars Really That Polluting - Forbes

But mining for thousands of tons of rare earth elements a year does not compare with mining for billions of tons of coal a year. From an environmental and health perspective, the amount of heavy metals, like mercury, uranium and thorium, emitted from burning coal in the U.S. alone exceeds by a thousand times the total amount of lithium and rare earth elements mined in the entire world (USGS; Treehugger).

The simple evaluation is to compare the CO2 emissions from burning gasoline to those emitted by the power plants to produce the energy to charge the battery to drive the same distance. We’ll be nice to internal combustion engines and say they get 40 miles to the gallon. Similarly, we’ll be conservative and say electric vehicles get only 40 miles to every 10 kWhrs.

A gallon of gasoline produces 8,887 grams of CO2 when burned in a vehicle (EPA vehicle emissions). Producing the equivalent of 10 kWhrs of electricity, including the total life-cycle from mining, construction, transport and burning, emits about 9,750 g of CO2 when generated in a coal-fired power plant, 6,000 g when generated in a natural gas plant, 900g from a hydroelectric plant, 550 g from solar, but only 150 g each from wind and nuclear (UK Office of Science and Technology 2006).

The State of Washington is over 80% non-fossil fuel, primarily because of hydro, nuclear and a little wind, so electric vehicles charged in this region are fairly “green”, yielding emission-equivalents similar to gasoline-powered vehicles getting over 70 mpg. But cars charged in Indiana, where coal exceeds 90% of the electricity production, are not much greener than cars with internal combustion engines getting less than half of that.

Fortunately, about half of Americans live in the best grid regions.

The figure on Washington is off a little.

The one and only coal fired plant left in Washington is being shut down. They started shutdown in 2005. That plant is in a rural area in the central part of the western side of the state and services that area rural area.

There is one nuclear plant in service in Washington. It's in the eastern part of the state in another rural area. It provides electricity for that area. It contributes around 10% of the energy Washington uses.

Water alone contributes 60% or the majority of the energy Washington generates.

The state also has a law that requires a certain percentage of their energy come from alternative sources. I think that it's 20% but I could be remembering wrong. Hydro electric dams aren't considered alternative since it's been around for over 100 years.

The state started building a wind farm in the 90s and now has one of the largest wind farms in the nation. They add more windmills every year.

My state, Washington state, shows that fossil fuel isn't needed to generate electricity. It also proves that the claims that it will eb expensive wrong. Washington has the 3rd lowest electric rates in America. Idaho and West Virginia have lower rates. One by one tenth of a penny and the other by 2 tents of a penny.

My husband's Chevy Volt has put around 10 dollars extra on the electric bills in the winter. In the summer it's about half that because the rates are lower. Meanwhile the car has nearly eliminated spending money on gas.

 

[Dana7360]

With the extra amount of money you spend on an electric car over a gasoline powered car, you have to damn near drive it for 10 years before you make up the difference in gas savings.

And by then, you have to drop eight grand to replace the batteries. So you never really save any money on one.

They are simply not cost effective.

Yet.

If you are comparing a Tesla to a Honda, that might be true. But if you compare the Tesla to the equivalent Mercedes or BMW, the cost effectiveness is there.

I'm comparing all electric cars. Like the Chevy Volt.

You going to compare the Chevy Volt to a Rolls Royce next?

I don't think it's fair to compare a Chevy Volt to a Rolls Royce. I don't think it's fair to compare any car against a Rolls Royce.

So I don't think your comparison is a good one.

I would compare it to a Cadillac. Which they cost about the same.

My husband's Chevy Volt cost more than double of what my Prius cost. Chevy offers it without any interest.

It's a great car. I wish my hubby would let me drive it. The Volt my hubby has certainly is a luxury car.

 

[westwall]

With the extra amount of money you spend on an electric car over a gasoline powered car, you have to damn near drive it for 10 years before you make up the difference in gas savings.

And by then, you have to drop eight grand to replace the batteries. So you never really save any money on one.

They are simply not cost effective.

Yet.

If you are comparing a Tesla to a Honda, that might be true. But if you compare the Tesla to the equivalent Mercedes or BMW, the cost effectiveness is there.

I'm comparing all electric cars. Like the Chevy Volt.

You going to compare the Chevy Volt to a Rolls Royce next?

I don't think it's fair to compare a Chevy Volt to a Rolls Royce. I don't think it's fair to compare any car against a Rolls Royce.

So I don't think your comparison is a good one.

I would compare it to a Cadillac. Which they cost about the same.

My husband's Chevy Volt cost more than double of what my Prius cost. Chevy offers it without any interest.

It's a great car. I wish my hubby would let me drive it. The Volt my hubby has certainly is a luxury car.

Why are you avoiding answering my posts? Dana7360

 

[Dana7360]

50742"]From the Blaze tonight:

Bammy promised in his 2011 State of the Union Address, that by 2015, electric cars would swarm this country's landscape thicker than illegal aliens. Yet 99.7% of the hundreds of thousands of electric cars he promised, are nowhere to be found. Yet one more idiotic pipedream by Bammy's warmies. Oh, and you the taxpayer forked over a $7,500 subsidy for every one that was sold. Just makes you feel green and cozy all over, don't it?[/QUOTE]



You must not live in an area that has people who want an electric car.

I do. They're all over the place and very common here. In fact, my husband drives a Volt.

I drive a hybrid but when I replace it I will buy an electric car. I don't like the body of the Leaf so I will probably get a Tesla.

You should go to Maui. They have even more electric cars on the road there than we do here. It seemed like it happened over night, I was there in January 2014 and saw some electric cars. I was back in July 2014 and they were everywhere.

Yes we got a tax credit of 7500 dollars in 2013 because my husband bought an electric car. We will get another credit when I replace my Prius with an electric car.

I guess you only approve of tax credits for rich business but not for Americans who do all they can to not pollute our environment or give our money to rich middle eastern nations.[/QUOTE]

Don't be a self-righteous prig. I own a ranch in Southern Colorado at 8100' above sea level, in the foothills of the San Juan Mountains, that's so remote the nearest big box shopping mall is 150 miles distant, and the closest Interstate Highway is 102 miles distant. If you don't have a full-size, V-8, 4X4 vehicle here, where winters last at least 6 months and are severe, you're risking your life quite literally. Think outside the box. We don't all live in Hawaii. "Trendy" in my part of the world is 5" of lift and a set of chains that won't fall apart after a year. Electric cars? It'll be another half century at least before they supplant internal combustion engines as a major means of transport.[/QUOTE]


What in the world is self righteous about my post?

Just because your area of the nation doesn't have many electric vehicles doesn't mean it's like that in the rest of the nation.

I'm not telling you that you have to drive an electric car.

I'm just telling you that there are a lot of them on the road here and in other parts of the nation. That in fact, my husband drives a Volt.

I also live in a part of the nation that has bad weather and very steep hills/mountains. We have a truck with 4wheel drive for when it snows. When it snows here it gets compacted with ice and there's very few that can get up our hills. We have hills that go straight up for over a mile. I happen to live on one of them. When it snows, the only thing that's getting down or up our hills is a 4 wheel drive with chains.

That truck sits in the driveway most of the time. Other than to haul things or when the weather is bad, that truck isn't used.

 

[LeftofLeft]

50742"]From the Blaze tonight:

Bammy promised in his 2011 State of the Union Address, that by 2015, electric cars would swarm this country's landscape thicker than illegal aliens. Yet 99.7% of the hundreds of thousands of electric cars he promised, are nowhere to be found. Yet one more idiotic pipedream by Bammy's warmies. Oh, and you the taxpayer forked over a $7,500 subsidy for every one that was sold. Just makes you feel green and cozy all over, don't it?

You must not live in an area that has people who want an electric car.

I do. They're all over the place and very common here. In fact, my husband drives a Volt.

I drive a hybrid but when I replace it I will buy an electric car. I don't like the body of the Leaf so I will probably get a Tesla.

You should go to Maui. They have even more electric cars on the road there than we do here. It seemed like it happened over night, I was there in January 2014 and saw some electric cars. I was back in July 2014 and they were everywhere.

Yes we got a tax credit of 7500 dollars in 2013 because my husband bought an electric car. We will get another credit when I replace my Prius with an electric car.

I guess you only approve of tax credits for rich business but not for Americans who do all they can to not pollute our environment or give our money to rich middle eastern nations.[/QUOTE]

Don't be a self-righteous prig. I own a ranch in Southern Colorado at 8100' above sea level, in the foothills of the San Juan Mountains, that's so remote the nearest big box shopping mall is 150 miles distant, and the closest Interstate Highway is 102 miles distant. If you don't have a full-size, V-8, 4X4 vehicle here, where winters last at least 6 months and are severe, you're risking your life quite literally. Think outside the box. We don't all live in Hawaii. "Trendy" in my part of the world is 5" of lift and a set of chains that won't fall apart after a year. Electric cars? It'll be another half century at least before they supplant internal combustion engines as a major means of transport.[/QUOTE]


What in the world is self righteous about my post?

Just because your area of the nation doesn't have many electric vehicles doesn't mean it's like that in the rest of the nation.

I'm not telling you that you have to drive an electric car.

I'm just telling you that there are a lot of them on the road here and in other parts of the nation. That in fact, my husband drives a Volt.

I also live in a part of the nation that has bad weather and very steep hills/mountains. We have a truck with 4wheel drive for when it snows. When it snows here it gets compacted with ice and there's very few that can get up our hills. We have hills that go straight up for over a mile. I happen to live on one of them. When it snows, the only thing that's getting down or up our hills is a 4 wheel drive with chains.

That truck sits in the driveway most of the time. Other than to haul things or when the weather is bad, that truck isn't used.[/QUOTE]

One data point does not make for a trend.

 

[Dana7360]

From the Blaze tonight:

Bammy promised in his 2011 State of the Union Address, that by 2015, electric cars would swarm this country's landscape thicker than illegal aliens. Yet 99.7% of the hundreds of thousands of electric cars he promised, are nowhere to be found. Yet one more idiotic pipedream by Bammy's warmies. Oh, and you the taxpayer forked over a $7,500 subsidy for every one that was sold. Just makes you feel green and cozy all over, don't it?

You must not live in an area that has people who want an electric car.

I do. They're all over the place and very common here. In fact, my husband drives a Volt.

I drive a hybrid but when I replace it I will buy an electric car. I don't like the body of the Leaf so I will probably get a Tesla.

You should go to Maui. They have even more electric cars on the road there than we do here. It seemed like it happened over night, I was there in January 2014 and saw some electric cars. I was back in July 2014 and they were everywhere.

Yes we got a tax credit of 7500 dollars in 2013 because my husband bought an electric car. We will get another credit when I replace my Prius with an electric car.

I guess you only approve of tax credits for rich business but not for Americans who do all they can to not pollute our environment or give our money to rich middle eastern nations.

Really? Where on the planet are EV's "common"?

I live in Washington state. They're very common here.

My second home is Maui. They're even more common there. That is a recent thing though. I was there in the beginning of 2014 and saw about the same amount of electric cars there as we have here. I was there in the summer of 2014 and in that short time something changed because I saw a lot of electric cars. The Nissan Leaf seems to be the most popular. Which I think that car is very ugly and won't ever buy one.

I read in the Maui News a couple years back that Hawaii was building charging stations all over the islands. I guess now that the stations are in place, people are using them.

Just about everything has to be shipped there including fossil fuels. So they've actually done something to decrease the amount of fossil fuels they use. Windmills are all over the south end of the mountains above Lahaina on the north shore. They've staked out more places on the other side of the mountains for more windmills.

They also have solar panels on just about every building on the island. Solar panels are on road signs and just about all public places that need electricity.

My state is the same way. We don't have as much solar on buildings but we have a lot of windmills. We have solar power on road signs and on the posts that guide ferries and freight ships to dock. They're in a lot of public places that needs electricity. Most of our electricity is generated by water. Our one coal fire plant is being shutdown.

So while some parts of the nation don't have much in the way of alternative energy or have many electric cars, other parts of the nation do. I happen to live in one of them.

 

[Flopper]

The top speed of the old EV's were limited by the lead acid batteries which typically were rated at 40 amp hours. The lithium ion battery in a Volt is rated at 17,500 amp hrs. That means it would require 437 of these old batteries at 25 lbs each (11,000 lbs.) to delivery the power in a Volt battery.

My post was written to counter the claim that there has been no significant advancement in battery technology. The claim was based on the fact that the range today is about the same as the old EV's. The poster ignores the fact that the batteries in these older vehicles could only develop about 18 to 35 hp and a man on foot could out run them.

However, there was a race car built in 1902, the Baker that sold for $10,000 ($250,000 in today's dollars). It carried about 2500 lbs of batteries. It could accelerate to it's top speed of 80mph in about 2 mins before the batteries gave out.

No, the claim was not that there had been no advance in battery technology. That would be absurd. The claim was that there was no increase in range, which for the average EV is a fact. The modern cars weigh more, are orders of magnitude more comfortable to drive, can keep you warm or cool depending on what is needed, but the range is still basically the same.

Then why saying the ranges are the same? It's an apple and oranges comparison.

Because they ARE! Hell the Volts range is 40 miles in electric only so it has less than half the range of the old EV's. If the roads were better back then they could have built them to go faster, but the roads were crap so they didn't bother. You are correct on the differences, I have already acknowledged those, but the fundamental range IS THE SAME!

.
Yes, they could have been built to go faster and give up range or they could have built to go slower and have longer ranges just as designers do today. In fact. there was one built that was designed to do 120mph. However, the batteries had to be charged with each run

What you seem to be skirting around is the fact that the lead liquid acid batteries of a hundred years ago had very limited capacity compared with Lithium ion batteries of today. Most of the electric cars of a hundred years ago, could only deliver 18 to 35hp with a top speed of 15 to 20mph with a 40 mile range. To get the ranges available today, these vehicles would have to be designed to run at speeds slower than a fast walk.

There is no way you could achieve the overall performance of the today's EV's with batteries available 100 years ago. The Tesla Model S has a range of 265 miles, top speed of 125 mph, and 0 to 60 in 5.9 secs. The trade off being it has a $80,000 price tag.

You seem to be ignoring the fact that I have been agreeing with you on these facts. However the TESLA has NEVER attained the predicted ranges save under extremely favorable testing conditions. Real world experience is the range is closer to 225 miles. Less if you drive it in any sort of sporty fashion. Much less in point of fact. Figure in a sporty driving mode you'll get at best 100 miles from a charge. If the Top Gear experience with the Roadster is any gauge then figure you'll get one quarter of what TESLA claims you'll get if you are driving it hard.

"Your mileage will vary. When we attempted our first range test of the Model S, a long haul from Fontana to El Segundo via San Diego, we had to plug it in less than 2 miles from our destination, logging only 233.7 miles against the EPA's estimate of 265 miles on a single charge. A subsequent round-trip from Las Vegas to L.A. by our team validated the range, in the same way other media achieved what Broder could not. Of course, those stories didn't get quite the same amount of publicity, but it doesn't matter how big--or fraught with error--the Times story may appear. It's but one data point in what I hope will be a long and interesting trail left by the Model S and future Tesla EVs."

Read more: Tesla Model S Your Mileage May Vary - The Lohdown - Motor Trend

Although I wouldn't buy one because I live in a Condo with no way to charge it and no nearby charging stations, I sure would like to drive one. 0 to 60 in as little as 3.2 secs is incredible for an EV.

 

[Dana7360]

50742"]From the Blaze tonight:

Bammy promised in his 2011 State of the Union Address, that by 2015, electric cars would swarm this country's landscape thicker than illegal aliens. Yet 99.7% of the hundreds of thousands of electric cars he promised, are nowhere to be found. Yet one more idiotic pipedream by Bammy's warmies. Oh, and you the taxpayer forked over a $7,500 subsidy for every one that was sold. Just makes you feel green and cozy all over, don't it?

You must not live in an area that has people who want an electric car.

I do. They're all over the place and very common here. In fact, my husband drives a Volt.

I drive a hybrid but when I replace it I will buy an electric car. I don't like the body of the Leaf so I will probably get a Tesla.

You should go to Maui. They have even more electric cars on the road there than we do here. It seemed like it happened over night, I was there in January 2014 and saw some electric cars. I was back in July 2014 and they were everywhere.

Yes we got a tax credit of 7500 dollars in 2013 because my husband bought an electric car. We will get another credit when I replace my Prius with an electric car.

I guess you only approve of tax credits for rich business but not for Americans who do all they can to not pollute our environment or give our money to rich middle eastern nations.

Don't be a self-righteous prig. I own a ranch in Southern Colorado at 8100' above sea level, in the foothills of the San Juan Mountains, that's so remote the nearest big box shopping mall is 150 miles distant, and the closest Interstate Highway is 102 miles distant. If you don't have a full-size, V-8, 4X4 vehicle here, where winters last at least 6 months and are severe, you're risking your life quite literally. Think outside the box. We don't all live in Hawaii. "Trendy" in my part of the world is 5" of lift and a set of chains that won't fall apart after a year. Electric cars? It'll be another half century at least before they supplant internal combustion engines as a major means of transport.[/QUOTE]


What in the world is self righteous about my post?

Just because your area of the nation doesn't have many electric vehicles doesn't mean it's like that in the rest of the nation.

I'm not telling you that you have to drive an electric car.

I'm just telling you that there are a lot of them on the road here and in other parts of the nation. That in fact, my husband drives a Volt.

I also live in a part of the nation that has bad weather and very steep hills/mountains. We have a truck with 4wheel drive for when it snows. When it snows here it gets compacted with ice and there's very few that can get up our hills. We have hills that go straight up for over a mile. I happen to live on one of them. When it snows, the only thing that's getting down or up our hills is a 4 wheel drive with chains.

That truck sits in the driveway most of the time. Other than to haul things or when the weather is bad, that truck isn't used.[/QUOTE]

One data point does not make for a trend.[/QUOTE]





I recall that was the same thing that was said about hybrid cars in 2001 when we bought our first one.

Nor am I saying it's a trend.

I am saying that the OP is incorrect. That electric cars are here and people are buying them. I see them everyday on the road.

My husband has a Volt. One of our friends has a Leaf.

My next car will be an electric car.

 

[westwall]

From the Blaze tonight:

Bammy promised in his 2011 State of the Union Address, that by 2015, electric cars would swarm this country's landscape thicker than illegal aliens. Yet 99.7% of the hundreds of thousands of electric cars he promised, are nowhere to be found. Yet one more idiotic pipedream by Bammy's warmies. Oh, and you the taxpayer forked over a $7,500 subsidy for every one that was sold. Just makes you feel green and cozy all over, don't it?

You must not live in an area that has people who want an electric car.

I do. They're all over the place and very common here. In fact, my husband drives a Volt.

I drive a hybrid but when I replace it I will buy an electric car. I don't like the body of the Leaf so I will probably get a Tesla.

You should go to Maui. They have even more electric cars on the road there than we do here. It seemed like it happened over night, I was there in January 2014 and saw some electric cars. I was back in July 2014 and they were everywhere.

Yes we got a tax credit of 7500 dollars in 2013 because my husband bought an electric car. We will get another credit when I replace my Prius with an electric car.

I guess you only approve of tax credits for rich business but not for Americans who do all they can to not pollute our environment or give our money to rich middle eastern nations.

Really? Where on the planet are EV's "common"?

I live in Washington state. They're very common here.

My second home is Maui. They're even more common there. That is a recent thing though. I was there in the beginning of 2014 and saw about the same amount of electric cars there as we have here. I was there in the summer of 2014 and in that short time something changed because I saw a lot of electric cars. The Nissan Leaf seems to be the most popular. Which I think that car is very ugly and won't ever buy one.

I read in the Maui News a couple years back that Hawaii was building charging stations all over the islands. I guess now that the stations are in place, people are using them.

Just about everything has to be shipped there including fossil fuels. So they've actually done something to decrease the amount of fossil fuels they use. Windmills are all over the south end of the mountains above Lahaina on the north shore. They've staked out more places on the other side of the mountains for more windmills.

They also have solar panels on just about every building on the island. Solar panels are on road signs and just about all public places that need electricity.

My state is the same way. We don't have as much solar on buildings but we have a lot of windmills. We have solar power on road signs and on the posts that guide ferries and freight ships to dock. They're in a lot of public places that needs electricity. Most of our electricity is generated by water. Our one coal fire plant is being shutdown.

So while some parts of the nation don't have much in the way of alternative energy or have many electric cars, other parts of the nation do. I happen to live in one of them.

So, in your world .02% of the population is "common". Interesting.

 

[westwall]

No, the claim was not that there had been no advance in battery technology. That would be absurd. The claim was that there was no increase in range, which for the average EV is a fact. The modern cars weigh more, are orders of magnitude more comfortable to drive, can keep you warm or cool depending on what is needed, but the range is still basically the same.

Then why saying the ranges are the same? It's an apple and oranges comparison.

Because they ARE! Hell the Volts range is 40 miles in electric only so it has less than half the range of the old EV's. If the roads were better back then they could have built them to go faster, but the roads were crap so they didn't bother. You are correct on the differences, I have already acknowledged those, but the fundamental range IS THE SAME!

.
Yes, they could have been built to go faster and give up range or they could have built to go slower and have longer ranges just as designers do today. In fact. there was one built that was designed to do 120mph. However, the batteries had to be charged with each run

What you seem to be skirting around is the fact that the lead liquid acid batteries of a hundred years ago had very limited capacity compared with Lithium ion batteries of today. Most of the electric cars of a hundred years ago, could only deliver 18 to 35hp with a top speed of 15 to 20mph with a 40 mile range. To get the ranges available today, these vehicles would have to be designed to run at speeds slower than a fast walk.

There is no way you could achieve the overall performance of the today's EV's with batteries available 100 years ago. The Tesla Model S has a range of 265 miles, top speed of 125 mph, and 0 to 60 in 5.9 secs. The trade off being it has a $80,000 price tag.

You seem to be ignoring the fact that I have been agreeing with you on these facts. However the TESLA has NEVER attained the predicted ranges save under extremely favorable testing conditions. Real world experience is the range is closer to 225 miles. Less if you drive it in any sort of sporty fashion. Much less in point of fact. Figure in a sporty driving mode you'll get at best 100 miles from a charge. If the Top Gear experience with the Roadster is any gauge then figure you'll get one quarter of what TESLA claims you'll get if you are driving it hard.

"Your mileage will vary. When we attempted our first range test of the Model S, a long haul from Fontana to El Segundo via San Diego, we had to plug it in less than 2 miles from our destination, logging only 233.7 miles against the EPA's estimate of 265 miles on a single charge. A subsequent round-trip from Las Vegas to L.A. by our team validated the range, in the same way other media achieved what Broder could not. Of course, those stories didn't get quite the same amount of publicity, but it doesn't matter how big--or fraught with error--the Times story may appear. It's but one data point in what I hope will be a long and interesting trail left by the Model S and future Tesla EVs."

Read more: Tesla Model S Your Mileage May Vary - The Lohdown - Motor Trend

Although I wouldn't buy one because I live in a Condo with no way to charge it and no nearby charging stations, I sure would like to drive one. 0 to 60 in as little as 3.2 secs is incredible for an EV.

Yes, no one denies that the EV's have good performance. The newest hypercars are hybrids. They use the ICE engines for the rear wheels and they use high power electric motors to power the front wheels so they get incredible traction and with the normal powertrain they are simply incredible!

 

[Flopper]

50742"]From the Blaze tonight:

Bammy promised in his 2011 State of the Union Address, that by 2015, electric cars would swarm this country's landscape thicker than illegal aliens. Yet 99.7% of the hundreds of thousands of electric cars he promised, are nowhere to be found. Yet one more idiotic pipedream by Bammy's warmies. Oh, and you the taxpayer forked over a $7,500 subsidy for every one that was sold. Just makes you feel green and cozy all over, don't it?

You must not live in an area that has people who want an electric car.

I do. They're all over the place and very common here. In fact, my husband drives a Volt.

I drive a hybrid but when I replace it I will buy an electric car. I don't like the body of the Leaf so I will probably get a Tesla.

You should go to Maui. They have even more electric cars on the road there than we do here. It seemed like it happened over night, I was there in January 2014 and saw some electric cars. I was back in July 2014 and they were everywhere.

Yes we got a tax credit of 7500 dollars in 2013 because my husband bought an electric car. We will get another credit when I replace my Prius with an electric car.

I guess you only approve of tax credits for rich business but not for Americans who do all they can to not pollute our environment or give our money to rich middle eastern nations.[/QUOTE]

Don't be a self-righteous prig. I own a ranch in Southern Colorado at 8100' above sea level, in the foothills of the San Juan Mountains, that's so remote the nearest big box shopping mall is 150 miles distant, and the closest Interstate Highway is 102 miles distant. If you don't have a full-size, V-8, 4X4 vehicle here, where winters last at least 6 months and are severe, you're risking your life quite literally. Think outside the box. We don't all live in Hawaii. "Trendy" in my part of the world is 5" of lift and a set of chains that won't fall apart after a year. Electric cars? It'll be another half century at least before they supplant internal combustion engines as a major means of transport.[/QUOTE]


What in the world is self righteous about my post?

Just because your area of the nation doesn't have many electric vehicles doesn't mean it's like that in the rest of the nation.

I'm not telling you that you have to drive an electric car.

I'm just telling you that there are a lot of them on the road here and in other parts of the nation. That in fact, my husband drives a Volt.

I also live in a part of the nation that has bad weather and very steep hills/mountains. We have a truck with 4wheel drive for when it snows. When it snows here it gets compacted with ice and there's very few that can get up our hills. We have hills that go straight up for over a mile. I happen to live on one of them. When it snows, the only thing that's getting down or up our hills is a 4 wheel drive with chains.

That truck sits in the driveway most of the time. Other than to haul things or when the weather is bad, that truck isn't used.[/QUOTE]
Obama promised nothing. Read the speech.

 

[WinterBorn]

No, the claim was not that there had been no advance in battery technology. That would be absurd. The claim was that there was no increase in range, which for the average EV is a fact. The modern cars weigh more, are orders of magnitude more comfortable to drive, can keep you warm or cool depending on what is needed, but the range is still basically the same.

Then why saying the ranges are the same? It's an apple and oranges comparison.

Because they ARE! Hell the Volts range is 40 miles in electric only so it has less than half the range of the old EV's. If the roads were better back then they could have built them to go faster, but the roads were crap so they didn't bother. You are correct on the differences, I have already acknowledged those, but the fundamental range IS THE SAME!

.
Yes, they could have been built to go faster and give up range or they could have built to go slower and have longer ranges just as designers do today. In fact. there was one built that was designed to do 120mph. However, the batteries had to be charged with each run

What you seem to be skirting around is the fact that the lead liquid acid batteries of a hundred years ago had very limited capacity compared with Lithium ion batteries of today. Most of the electric cars of a hundred years ago, could only deliver 18 to 35hp with a top speed of 15 to 20mph with a 40 mile range. To get the ranges available today, these vehicles would have to be designed to run at speeds slower than a fast walk.

There is no way you could achieve the overall performance of the today's EV's with batteries available 100 years ago. The Tesla Model S has a range of 265 miles, top speed of 125 mph, and 0 to 60 in 5.9 secs. The trade off being it has a $80,000 price tag.

You seem to be ignoring the fact that I have been agreeing with you on these facts. However the TESLA has NEVER attained the predicted ranges save under extremely favorable testing conditions. Real world experience is the range is closer to 225 miles. Less if you drive it in any sort of sporty fashion. Much less in point of fact. Figure in a sporty driving mode you'll get at best 100 miles from a charge. If the Top Gear experience with the Roadster is any gauge then figure you'll get one quarter of what TESLA claims you'll get if you are driving it hard.

"Your mileage will vary. When we attempted our first range test of the Model S, a long haul from Fontana to El Segundo via San Diego, we had to plug it in less than 2 miles from our destination, logging only 233.7 miles against the EPA's estimate of 265 miles on a single charge. A subsequent round-trip from Las Vegas to L.A. by our team validated the range, in the same way other media achieved what Broder could not. Of course, those stories didn't get quite the same amount of publicity, but it doesn't matter how big--or fraught with error--the Times story may appear. It's but one data point in what I hope will be a long and interesting trail left by the Model S and future Tesla EVs."

Read more: Tesla Model S Your Mileage May Vary - The Lohdown - Motor Trend

Although I wouldn't buy one because I live in a Condo with no way to charge it and no nearby charging stations, I sure would like to drive one. 0 to 60 in as little as 3.2 secs is incredible for an EV.

Did Bear ever say how you could charge your car in a condo? I seem to recall him saying you could do it if you knew how.