What will happen if we leave Iraq?

Little-Acorn

Gold Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2006
Messages
10,025
Reaction score
2,404
Points
290
Location
San Diego, CA
Prager hits the nail on the head. Have the leftists in this country actually thought through what will happen a month after we leave? Three months? Three years? With Al Qaeda and various jihadist fanatics left free to take over one of the largest, most oil-rich countries in the middle East? Backed by Syria, Ira, and the likes of Mahmoud Amahdinejad?

--------------------------------------

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55464

What a jihadist victory would mean

by Dennis Prager
Posted: May 1, 2007
1:00 a.m. Eastern

In arriving at their decision that America should withdraw its forces from Iraq, the Democratic Party and the left around the world regularly make reference to what they regard as America's initial error – invading Iraq.

Perhaps the left is correct in its contentions that bringing freedom to a Muslim Arab country at this time in history is impossible and that an Iraq under Saddam Hussein would be better for American and world security.

But even if the war was a major blunder and even if everything the left charges – including "Bush lied" – were true, none of these contentions has any bearing on the question of what should be done now.

The preoccupation of the left with the alleged wrongness of the war and the alleged deceit of President Bush is another example of passion rather than reason determining a leftist position on a major issue.

A responsible, rational opponent of the war in Iraq and of George W. Bush would say, "I am appalled by the disastrous war in Iraq, appalled by the wasted American lives, appalled by the moral wasteland of Iraq, and I loathe this president. But we are in Iraq. And as much as I loathe supporting anything this president does and as much as I oppose this war, I know what is likely to happen if we leave Iraq. So I cannot in good conscience advocate an American withdrawal or fixing a specific date to do so."

In a recent column, I argued that the left rarely asks "What happens next?" when advocating social policy. I offered numerous examples. Withdrawal from Iraq and announcing that America has "lost the war" are the latest and most egregious.

If we leave Iraq:

It will be a great victory for the most dangerous ideology on earth today. The people running North Korea are presumably as evil as the Islamists. But there is no ideology emanating from North Korea that threatens mankind. We are fighting an ideology, supported by millions of people, that wishes to conquer the world and routinely engages in mass murder of the innocent – especially the innocent – to achieve its totalitarian goals.

No one will trust America's commitment for the foreseeable future. Nations and forces aligned with America against freedom-hating enemies will conclude that it is actually quite easy to defeat the United States of America. Just kill relatively few of that country's soldiers, and the USA will soon abandon you.

The very best Iraqis – and members of their families – will be slaughtered like animals.

It will mean the end of the possibility of the rise of a moderate form of Islam for the foreseeable future, perhaps generations. In the Arab/Muslim world, might is revered, and the victorious Islamists will therefore be revered. Moreover, they will have earned the right to claim that they constitute an unstoppable force. If America, the most powerful country in the world, surrenders to them because the Islamists murder fellow Muslims and killed the indescribably tragic but militarily small total of 3,000 soldiers in four years – one-one-hundredth the losses the U.S. experienced in World War II – who in the Muslim world will stand up to them?

Iraq will turn into a far more potent terror base than Afghanistan could ever be. One of the major powers of the Arab world, one of the most oil-rich countries in the world, may well be ruled by jihadists.

Moderate Arab regimes will likely be overthrown by a combination of an emboldened Iran and an Islamist Iraq that regards moderate Arabs and Muslims as loathsome as, if not more so than, Americans and Jews. It is almost inconceivable, for example, that the Jordanian monarchy would long survive an American defeat in Iraq.

The American military will suffer a crisis of morale that it will not soon overcome. Though defeated not by the Islamist enemy but by the American left – most particularly the Democratic Party and the mainstream news media – it will be hard to convince many people to join or stay in the U.S. military. Why bother? Even if you do a great job, if you haven't done it all – whatever "all" means in a place like Iraq – you will be told that you lost the war.

And those who have heretofore murdered fellow Muslims will focus their attention on murdering us. The left dismisses the argument that it is far better to fight them in Iraq than in Europe and America. But the dismissal is simply irrational. The people we are fighting, including Osama bin Laden and all the variations on al-Qaida, know that the battle for Iraq is the battle for their future – that if they win in Iraq, they win all over the Middle East and beyond; that if they lose there, America and the West win.

But none of this matters to the left because Democrats and others on the left do not ask what will happen if America leaves Iraq. They are certain that the war was wrong, and that, in addition to handing George W. Bush and the Republicans a defeat, is what they seem to care about.
 

Care4all

Warrior Princess
Joined
Mar 24, 2007
Messages
56,714
Reaction score
15,124
Points
2,220
Location
Maine
I think that this is a very complicated issue and question and that the same question can be asked in the opposite direction like:

What happens if we stay in Iraq? What precisely does a "win" entail before we do leave.... and is this really achievable going and doing the same thing we are doing now?

Maybe the answer to these questions should be answered also, while we are asking the question of what happens after we leave....ya know?

--------------------------------------------------
I think we have to go with what the generals are still saying and that is that this civil war or that this war in Iraq can NOT be WON on the battlefield by the military.....that the ONLY sollution to this Civil War is Diplomacy.

As far as Alqaeda goes...I think that when and if we ever redeployed, Alqaeda would follow us....and try to cause havoc where ever we were and "rile the troops" so to say, or increase their recruiting of other Alqaeda members based on that....

I also believe that the Iraqis will FIGHT OFF Alqaeda after we leave because they have enough of their OWN ISSUES and problems without these terrorists getting involved...heh, they may actually unite, the sunni and the shiites to STOP the killing of innocents on both sides? ( I know that is just a prayer and may not ever come true or happen, but we need all the help we can get at this point imo :) )

Alqaeda may follow us to Afghanistan and Pakistan...all hell could break loose even worse than it has recently if we redeploy our troops to that arena...?

Also, just because it may LOOK like we have lost this so called "war on terrirism" to the few alqaeda members that are in Iraq does NOT mean that this gives us a right to put our soldiers in danger and in the middle of a Civil War that is ALSO taking place imo.

AND MOST IMPORTANTLY....losing a "Battle" is NOT losing a "War"....

We need to redeploy to the surrounding areas, and rethink a better and stronger way to go forward imo. :)

Care
 

Tianabautre

Rookie
Joined
May 2, 2007
Messages
5
Reaction score
2
Points
0
Hi Care!

Looks like I found your new hiding place!

With regard to the question:

We'll save a lot of tax dollars, american lives and cut our losses.
 

Care4all

Warrior Princess
Joined
Mar 24, 2007
Messages
56,714
Reaction score
15,124
Points
2,220
Location
Maine
Hi Care!

Looks like I found your new hiding place!

With regard to the question:

We'll save a lot of tax dollars, american lives and cut our losses.
hi tiana!

i am not hiding! lol

and good morning!

care
 

Care4all

Warrior Princess
Joined
Mar 24, 2007
Messages
56,714
Reaction score
15,124
Points
2,220
Location
Maine
Even with the 20-30k surge of soldiers, we will still have less men on the ground than we did during some of the other "Surges" that President Bush had ordered.

This war has never been fought to WIN, it seems.... not that they didn't want to win it, because they probably did want to do such, but perhaps their arrogance and lies got in the way and ended up biting them in the butt?

This surge, is no greater than other previous surges and because of this, we probably will not be able to bring safety to the Iraqi people once again....I hope it works, but it is doubtful....imo.... and mostly because we are not fighting this war to win, we should have followed the Powell Doctrine and used overwelming force with a huge amount of soldiers to secure the country and borders during the rebuilding and occupation.... :(

Unless we double or tripled our troops at this point, we would never be able to take the control that is needed to squash this hornet's nest imo.

And we do not have enough troops to do the job at this point...they are tired and worn out....and we are being left vulnerable to respond to any other threat and to protect the homeland, again....imo.

And LASTLY:

I disagree that Alqaeda wants us to leave so they can take over BECAUSE AlQaeda...EVERY TIME we make an effort to leave, INCREASES THEIR ATTACKS and sucide bombers.....making us STAY LONGER....

They KNOW our President will INSIST on statying if they continue or increase their attacks!

If they wanted us to leave, they would just sit back and wait....then pounce on the Iraqi people and their oil when we leave.... but instead, they increase their actions of terror, HOLDING US there imo....

so, president bush actually could be acquiescing to the terrorist's wishes?

some people say bin laden wanted us there too... this gives them an enemy on their homeland grounds that helps them with recruiting for their jihad....

i think in hindsite, this very well appears to be true!

care
 

red states rule

Senior Member
Joined
May 30, 2006
Messages
16,011
Reaction score
573
Points
48
A few updates

CNN is reporting Dems are going to drop their surrender date

Harry Reid's approval rating is lower the VP Dick Cheney's

So much for the Dems doing the will of the Amercian people
 

Care4all

Warrior Princess
Joined
Mar 24, 2007
Messages
56,714
Reaction score
15,124
Points
2,220
Location
Maine
A few updates

CNN is reporting Dems are going to drop their surrender date
Yes, I heard this two days ago, that the dems would probably drop the withdrawl dates but would keep the "bench marks".... And that this would probably lose some of their Democratic counterparts but pick up some more Republicans and still pass.

President Bush may not accept the bench marks and it may go back to the senate/house again to rewrite..... then probably another compromise and another veto/ override vote.

care
 

red states rule

Senior Member
Joined
May 30, 2006
Messages
16,011
Reaction score
573
Points
48
Yes, I heard this two days ago, that the dems would probably drop the withdrawl dates but would keep the "bench marks".... And that this would probably lose some of their Democratic counterparts but pick up some more Republicans and still pass.

President Bush may not accept the bench marks and it may go back to the senate/house again to rewrite..... then probably another compromise and another veto/ override vote.

care
It seems the Dems have seen the latest polls and are giving uo their surrender plan

Dems are tanking in the polls and all Dems care about is winning elections - not the troops
 

Care4all

Warrior Princess
Joined
Mar 24, 2007
Messages
56,714
Reaction score
15,124
Points
2,220
Location
Maine
It seems the Dems have seen the latest polls and are giving uo their surrender plan

Dems are tanking in the polls and all Dems care about is winning elections - not the troops
Do you have a reputable "link" to that rsr?
 

Care4all

Warrior Princess
Joined
Mar 24, 2007
Messages
56,714
Reaction score
15,124
Points
2,220
Location
Maine
thank you rsr!

but please note these statements from your link...

Approval for Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D., Nev.) slipped to 22%, from 23% in February but up from 19% a year ago.

reid is UP 3 %from last year at this time...

Those polled gave Congress an approval rating of 27%, with the Democrats as a group pulling in 35% approval, compared with 22% for Republicans.

democrats are polling 13 points higher than republicans in congress.

;)

(just razzing you)

but polls are there to play with, both sides can spin them to their benefit! hahaha!

care
 

red states rule

Senior Member
Joined
May 30, 2006
Messages
16,011
Reaction score
573
Points
48
The poll numbers would explain why the Dems are giving up on their surrender bill
 

Vintij

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2007
Messages
1,040
Reaction score
105
Points
48
Location
Anaheim, CA
Well we have to wait and see what the dems do before we make assumptions.

And trust me, nobody knows what will happen if we leave Iraq, but we know what WILL happen if we stay. Thats why democrats and america wants out. They dont want to be there for 12 years like Viet-nam. And trust me, to rebuild the infastructure of Iraq, we have to be there alot longer than 12 years. And if you dissagree you obviously have not read the Iraqi constitution.

here is a little part of it

"The consitution is the highest law of the land and can not be contradicted"

"Islam is the highest religion and can not be contradicted by any law"

So the highest law is what?

Yea, real smart.......lets just force a democracy on Iraq so they can write laws in there consitution that contradict islam, like Womens rights.....freedom of religion.....etc. That wont promote civil war at all.
 

Superlative

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2007
Messages
1,382
Reaction score
109
Points
48
A responsible, rational opponent of the war in Iraq and of George W. Bush would say, "I am appalled by the disastrous war in Iraq, appalled by the wasted American lives, appalled by the moral wasteland of Iraq, and I loathe this president. But we are in Iraq. And as much as I loathe supporting anything this president does and as much as I oppose this war, I know what is likely to happen if we leave Iraq. So I cannot in good conscience advocate an American withdrawal or fixing a specific date to do so."
This is it. This is what should be said.

Its a shitty deal. BUT we are in it. and leaving is not a viable rational option, Leaving before any reasonable control is set up would make the US even bigger jerks than starting this did.

ONLY after a working government and a functioning police force are installed, should the US talk about leaving.
 

CSM

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2004
Messages
6,907
Reaction score
708
Points
48
Location
Northeast US
This is it. This is what should be said.

Its a shitty deal. BUT we are in it. and leaving is not a viable rational option, Leaving before any reasonable control is set up would make the US even bigger jerks than starting this did.

ONLY after a working government and a functioning police force are installed, should the US talk about leaving.
Yup.
 

Kemuri

Rookie
Joined
Apr 12, 2007
Messages
4
Reaction score
1
Points
1
Realistically there is no good option. Right now there is chaos in Iraq. If we leave there will be chaos in Iraq. And if we stay there will still be chaos in Iraq. The simple fact is you don't win in a guerilla war against people who feel that they are defending their homeland. Chances are that if we were to suddenly leave today things wouldn't get much better, but they wouldn't be anywhere near as bad as some people would like us to believe. Either way, there are so many variables in this thing that there is no possible way to predict with any certainty what would happen.
 

Gunny

Gold Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2004
Messages
44,689
Reaction score
6,852
Points
198
Location
The Republic of Texas
Realistically there is no good option. Right now there is chaos in Iraq. If we leave there will be chaos in Iraq. And if we stay there will still be chaos in Iraq. The simple fact is you don't win in a guerilla war against people who feel that they are defending their homeland. Chances are that if we were to suddenly leave today things wouldn't get much better, but they wouldn't be anywhere near as bad as some people would like us to believe. Either way, there are so many variables in this thing that there is no possible way to predict with any certainty what would happen.
There is no real guerilla war, us against them. It's a war of terror, one side against the other. We're just sitting in the middle.

I'm not even sure I'm willing to beleive that Iraq is in total chaos because I don't trust the media outlets. The troops I have spoken to have been there don't paint anywhere near as dreary a picture as the media and Democrats keep trying to pump into everyone's heads.
 

red states rule

Senior Member
Joined
May 30, 2006
Messages
16,011
Reaction score
573
Points
48
This is it. This is what should be said.

Its a shitty deal. BUT we are in it. and leaving is not a viable rational option, Leaving before any reasonable control is set up would make the US even bigger jerks than starting this did.

ONLY after a working government and a functioning police force are installed, should the US talk about leaving.
You are correct when the US should leave

However, Reid/Pelosi are more interested in how many House and Senate seats they can pick up instead of making sure the troops have what they need to win
 

Most reactions - Past 7 days

Forum List

Top